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What a very shambolic performance by Lammy today on 09:10 - Nov 6 by Swansea_Blue
100%. It’s a meaningless theatrical exercise. There are some serious issues here, with a big increase in mistakenly released prisoners in the last year (as per Glasser’s post), seemingly disrespect to the Speaker/House being shown by Lammy (as per Bloom’s post). There’s no chance of anything meaningful being discussed about either in the current format.
I thought it summed up rather well just how hopeless both parties really are. Lammy was awful and amateurish, yet the Tory minister managed to totally balls up what was an open goal. Do we not deserve better than this current crop of politicians? Maybe we don't.
2
What a very shambolic performance by Lammy today on 13:07 - Nov 6 with 944 views
What a very shambolic performance by Lammy today on 12:33 - Nov 6 by The_Major
Was a shambolic performance by all concerned, no doubt of that, and the news that broke after simply compounded the farce.
Also, Lammy could have donated £1000 each to the RBL and Help For Heroes for all we know, but of course, according to some the important thing is that he should be wearing a poppy.
And those who shout the loudest are probably the ones who will remove their poppy, be it a paper one or lapel badge, on 12 November, and place it into a kitchen drawer, so it's ready to be reused in 11 months time, and then they haven't got to spend more money.
I also know that if say Farage had not worn a poppy through a genuine oversight it'd be "He's a busy man, and simply forgot"
I'll always remember the response of my grandfather, the Toriest Tory there could be, when there was that fuss about Michael Foot wearing a donkey jacket at the Cenotaph. "Those of us who were actually in the war don't care what people wear or don't wear, just as long as they take a moment in their day just to remember"
The coat is in the People's History Museum, and wasn't even a donkey jacket. Indeed, the Queen Mother complimented him on it
"The coat caused controversy when Michael Foot wore it at the Cenotaph in 1981 on Remembrance Sunday. Some thought wearing a 'donkey jacket' on such a solemn occasion was inappropriate. In fact, the coat is not a donkey jacket but an overcoat bought for him by his wife, Jill Craigie, from Harrods' exclusive department store."
EDIT: on a related matter I came across this.
Thirty-four years later and the same kind of false furore was manufactured around one of Foot’s successors as Labour leader, Jeremy Corbyn.
"Corbyn, according to The Sun, didn’t bow deeply enough when laying a wreath to the dead.
“Nod in my name” was the tabloid’s headline, and the paper dedicated an entire editorial to the issue. An unlikely source leapt to Corbyn’s defence, with the Telegraph’s Charles Moore writing: “He comported himself appropriately. Contrary to some comment, there was nothing wrong with his slight bow as he laid his wreath.”
'Twas ever thus with the right wing media but the mud sticks.
FURTHER EDIT. According to Wikipedia.
"A donkey jacket is a medium-length workwear jacket, typically made of unlined black or dark blue thick Melton woollen fabric, with the shoulders back and front reinforced and protected from rain with leather or PVC panels.!
[Post edited 6 Nov 13:26]
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What a very shambolic performance by Lammy today on 13:20 - Nov 6 with 921 views
What a very shambolic performance by Lammy today on 22:02 - Nov 5 by onceablue
Swansea Blue - I can’t believe your response
You are the most opinionated poster on the whole board
Your comment leads me to conclude that you need to assess your own shambolic performance before having the cheek to call anyone else out for such like.
"The coat caused controversy when Michael Foot wore it at the Cenotaph in 1981 on Remembrance Sunday. Some thought wearing a 'donkey jacket' on such a solemn occasion was inappropriate. In fact, the coat is not a donkey jacket but an overcoat bought for him by his wife, Jill Craigie, from Harrods' exclusive department store."
EDIT: on a related matter I came across this.
Thirty-four years later and the same kind of false furore was manufactured around one of Foot’s successors as Labour leader, Jeremy Corbyn.
"Corbyn, according to The Sun, didn’t bow deeply enough when laying a wreath to the dead.
“Nod in my name” was the tabloid’s headline, and the paper dedicated an entire editorial to the issue. An unlikely source leapt to Corbyn’s defence, with the Telegraph’s Charles Moore writing: “He comported himself appropriately. Contrary to some comment, there was nothing wrong with his slight bow as he laid his wreath.”
'Twas ever thus with the right wing media but the mud sticks.
FURTHER EDIT. According to Wikipedia.
"A donkey jacket is a medium-length workwear jacket, typically made of unlined black or dark blue thick Melton woollen fabric, with the shoulders back and front reinforced and protected from rain with leather or PVC panels.!
[Post edited 6 Nov 13:26]
Yeah, that Corbyn thing led me to believe there was a Mail "journalist" sitting there with a stopwatch and a protractor to measure the angle of Corbyn's head.
Pathetic.
0
What a very shambolic performance by Lammy today on 13:37 - Nov 6 with 892 views
"The coat caused controversy when Michael Foot wore it at the Cenotaph in 1981 on Remembrance Sunday. Some thought wearing a 'donkey jacket' on such a solemn occasion was inappropriate. In fact, the coat is not a donkey jacket but an overcoat bought for him by his wife, Jill Craigie, from Harrods' exclusive department store."
EDIT: on a related matter I came across this.
Thirty-four years later and the same kind of false furore was manufactured around one of Foot’s successors as Labour leader, Jeremy Corbyn.
"Corbyn, according to The Sun, didn’t bow deeply enough when laying a wreath to the dead.
“Nod in my name” was the tabloid’s headline, and the paper dedicated an entire editorial to the issue. An unlikely source leapt to Corbyn’s defence, with the Telegraph’s Charles Moore writing: “He comported himself appropriately. Contrary to some comment, there was nothing wrong with his slight bow as he laid his wreath.”
'Twas ever thus with the right wing media but the mud sticks.
FURTHER EDIT. According to Wikipedia.
"A donkey jacket is a medium-length workwear jacket, typically made of unlined black or dark blue thick Melton woollen fabric, with the shoulders back and front reinforced and protected from rain with leather or PVC panels.!
"The coat caused controversy when Michael Foot wore it at the Cenotaph in 1981 on Remembrance Sunday. Some thought wearing a 'donkey jacket' on such a solemn occasion was inappropriate. In fact, the coat is not a donkey jacket but an overcoat bought for him by his wife, Jill Craigie, from Harrods' exclusive department store."
EDIT: on a related matter I came across this.
Thirty-four years later and the same kind of false furore was manufactured around one of Foot’s successors as Labour leader, Jeremy Corbyn.
"Corbyn, according to The Sun, didn’t bow deeply enough when laying a wreath to the dead.
“Nod in my name” was the tabloid’s headline, and the paper dedicated an entire editorial to the issue. An unlikely source leapt to Corbyn’s defence, with the Telegraph’s Charles Moore writing: “He comported himself appropriately. Contrary to some comment, there was nothing wrong with his slight bow as he laid his wreath.”
'Twas ever thus with the right wing media but the mud sticks.
FURTHER EDIT. According to Wikipedia.
"A donkey jacket is a medium-length workwear jacket, typically made of unlined black or dark blue thick Melton woollen fabric, with the shoulders back and front reinforced and protected from rain with leather or PVC panels.!
[Post edited 6 Nov 13:26]
I remember the right wing press furore over Michael Foot's coat at the cenotaph. Beyond ridiculous, Foot was easy enough to assassinate on the basis of his policies, such as unilateral nuclear disarmament & mass nationalisation. The coat didn't enter in to it.
What a very shambolic performance by Lammy today on 16:13 - Nov 6 by Radlett_blue
I remember the right wing press furore over Michael Foot's coat at the cenotaph. Beyond ridiculous, Foot was easy enough to assassinate on the basis of his policies, such as unilateral nuclear disarmament & mass nationalisation. The coat didn't enter in to it.
Labour were never going to get in, but the coat ensured he would never be elected pm. At the time he just looked a shapeless, shabby, scruffy mess. He never was much for personal appearance, but he was badly advised. It might have been a decent coat for constituency visits but it was not acceptable for a party leader attending the Cenotaph at that time. Looking back I assume at that point of time all the electable Labour grandees had left to join the SDP.
0
What a very shambolic performance by Lammy today on 18:49 - Nov 6 with 705 views
What a very shambolic performance by Lammy today on 16:13 - Nov 6 by Radlett_blue
I remember the right wing press furore over Michael Foot's coat at the cenotaph. Beyond ridiculous, Foot was easy enough to assassinate on the basis of his policies, such as unilateral nuclear disarmament & mass nationalisation. The coat didn't enter in to it.
He may well have had it right on nationalisation. The public sectors that were sold off seem to be right up turd creek these days (e.g. water (literally), British Steel, rail, energy, parts of the NHS). Privatisation has cost the government more in some cases and service levels aren’t exactly great.
What a very shambolic performance by Lammy today on 16:13 - Nov 6 by Radlett_blue
I remember the right wing press furore over Michael Foot's coat at the cenotaph. Beyond ridiculous, Foot was easy enough to assassinate on the basis of his policies, such as unilateral nuclear disarmament & mass nationalisation. The coat didn't enter in to it.
See also Miliband eating a bacon sandwich.
Won’t need too many guesses as to which twtder had that as their avatar.
What a very shambolic performance by Lammy today on 18:43 - Nov 6 by mellowblue
Labour were never going to get in, but the coat ensured he would never be elected pm. At the time he just looked a shapeless, shabby, scruffy mess. He never was much for personal appearance, but he was badly advised. It might have been a decent coat for constituency visits but it was not acceptable for a party leader attending the Cenotaph at that time. Looking back I assume at that point of time all the electable Labour grandees had left to join the SDP.
Wearing that instead of traditional black or dark grey formal attire did show a lack of judgment and communication skills which may have been an indication he’d have made a poor PM.
It’s all very well you yourself knowing that you utterly respect those who give their all in WW2 and other conflicts, but that needs to be communicated if you’re a core figure in a public ceremony.
Reminds me of being criticised by an OU tutor for not putting something in an essay because I’d thought it was so bleedin’ obvious I didn’t need to. His point was that in exams it’s important to state the bleedin’ obvious because outsiders don’t know that you know it!
Did anyone catch R4 this morning? In particular Emma Barnett's 'interview' of the Minister for Victims and Violence Against Women and Girls?
I know that the Today Programme is hardly a bastion of impartiality when it comes to interviewing Labour MPs, but Barnett's hysterics were a new low for the Beeb.
Dreadful figures 115 released by error in 2024 & then 262 released in error in 2025.
It will be interesting to see the outcome of the ongoing review. I feel that it cannot be a coincidence that the uptick in incorrect releases appears to have coincided with the need to release certain offenders early in order to free up prison spaces.
What a very shambolic performance by Lammy today on 19:40 - Nov 6 by Ryorry
Wearing that instead of traditional black or dark grey formal attire did show a lack of judgment and communication skills which may have been an indication he’d have made a poor PM.
It’s all very well you yourself knowing that you utterly respect those who give their all in WW2 and other conflicts, but that needs to be communicated if you’re a core figure in a public ceremony.
Reminds me of being criticised by an OU tutor for not putting something in an essay because I’d thought it was so bleedin’ obvious I didn’t need to. His point was that in exams it’s important to state the bleedin’ obvious because outsiders don’t know that you know it!
[Post edited 6 Nov 19:42]
Particularly as he would have been representing, his party mps and members. Foot was very much the firebrand, heart on his sleeve, conviction led politician. Very intelligent and true to his beliefs. Really worried not a jot about his hair or clothing. The very antithesis to a populist, coiferred Tony Blair type politician. Just not suited to be a leader. The H of C could do with more like him, whether on the left, middle or right.
1
What a very shambolic performance by Lammy today on 20:37 - Nov 6 with 549 views
What a very shambolic performance by Lammy today on 19:40 - Nov 6 by Ryorry
Wearing that instead of traditional black or dark grey formal attire did show a lack of judgment and communication skills which may have been an indication he’d have made a poor PM.
It’s all very well you yourself knowing that you utterly respect those who give their all in WW2 and other conflicts, but that needs to be communicated if you’re a core figure in a public ceremony.
Reminds me of being criticised by an OU tutor for not putting something in an essay because I’d thought it was so bleedin’ obvious I didn’t need to. His point was that in exams it’s important to state the bleedin’ obvious because outsiders don’t know that you know it!
Having lived in Norway for 20 years, I now find political debate in the UK, fascinating. The constant sniping and endless blame gaming between the parties seems to consume far too much of the front benches' time. I guess the media is partly to blame for constantly whipping up public anger over, relatively, small problems, which then forces those issues to become priorities in parliamentary debate. Then, rather than sensible discussions over solutions, it descends into posturing and blaming each other. This obviously further enrages and divides the public. They feel like nobody is looking out for them.
Meanwhile, living standards (the real issue) appear to be falling for millions of hard working people, while huge profits are being extracted by massive, often foreign, corporations who are monopolising huge areas of commerce. The wealth of the super rich seems to be increasing massively, on a daily basis. Maybe this is just me reacting to the media coverage and social media debate that I am exposed to?
I realise Norway, in many ways, is, currently, in a privileged position and protected from a lot of the economic issues but there does seem to be a more 'grown up' political debate here. Grifters like Yaxley Lennon and even Farage just wouldn't get the attention here, that they get over there. The fact that Elon Musk is mentioned on a daily basis, in the British media, should frighten everyone. In recent months, Norwegian colleagues have asked me about sharia law, Islamist terrorism and 'out of control' knife crime, on the streets of Britain. They have clearly seen, online, misinformation and lies which gives them the impression that these issues are much bigger than the reality.
Am I reading too much into what I am witnessing in the UK? I feel desperately sad for the country where I grew up and where my family still lives. The future for today's children appears bleak and the huge increase in mental health issues would seem to back this up. The politicians keep talking about economic growth being needed to balance the books, but is that even possible now? Where will that growth come from when corporate profits are being transferred abroad. Before anyone accuses me of putting Britain down, that is not my intention. I want Britain to thrive and for the people to live productive and happy lives. I just don't see that happening from this side of the North Sea. Am I overreacting to the issues?
What a very shambolic performance by Lammy today on 09:42 - Nov 7 by noggin
Having lived in Norway for 20 years, I now find political debate in the UK, fascinating. The constant sniping and endless blame gaming between the parties seems to consume far too much of the front benches' time. I guess the media is partly to blame for constantly whipping up public anger over, relatively, small problems, which then forces those issues to become priorities in parliamentary debate. Then, rather than sensible discussions over solutions, it descends into posturing and blaming each other. This obviously further enrages and divides the public. They feel like nobody is looking out for them.
Meanwhile, living standards (the real issue) appear to be falling for millions of hard working people, while huge profits are being extracted by massive, often foreign, corporations who are monopolising huge areas of commerce. The wealth of the super rich seems to be increasing massively, on a daily basis. Maybe this is just me reacting to the media coverage and social media debate that I am exposed to?
I realise Norway, in many ways, is, currently, in a privileged position and protected from a lot of the economic issues but there does seem to be a more 'grown up' political debate here. Grifters like Yaxley Lennon and even Farage just wouldn't get the attention here, that they get over there. The fact that Elon Musk is mentioned on a daily basis, in the British media, should frighten everyone. In recent months, Norwegian colleagues have asked me about sharia law, Islamist terrorism and 'out of control' knife crime, on the streets of Britain. They have clearly seen, online, misinformation and lies which gives them the impression that these issues are much bigger than the reality.
Am I reading too much into what I am witnessing in the UK? I feel desperately sad for the country where I grew up and where my family still lives. The future for today's children appears bleak and the huge increase in mental health issues would seem to back this up. The politicians keep talking about economic growth being needed to balance the books, but is that even possible now? Where will that growth come from when corporate profits are being transferred abroad. Before anyone accuses me of putting Britain down, that is not my intention. I want Britain to thrive and for the people to live productive and happy lives. I just don't see that happening from this side of the North Sea. Am I overreacting to the issues?
[Post edited 7 Nov 10:06]
I think you're right that living standards are at the root of all this - we seem to be going through a 20-year (and counting) decline here.
I do feel that some of the issues you would hear about from abroad are overblown and magnified by malign actors with an agenda - most people aren't getting stabbed and people largely co-exist with difference in tolerance (at least - often difference goes unnoticed). To be fair, that probably varies depending on whether you're living in a big city or small town.
Its interesting that your friends & colleagues pick up on these noises though - to me, that suggests that no-one is immune from social media driven bollox - even those living in petrol-driven relative wealth.
Has anyone ever looked at their own postings for last day or so? Oh my... so sorry. Was Ullaa
What a very shambolic performance by Lammy today on 10:50 - Nov 7 by giant_stow
I think you're right that living standards are at the root of all this - we seem to be going through a 20-year (and counting) decline here.
I do feel that some of the issues you would hear about from abroad are overblown and magnified by malign actors with an agenda - most people aren't getting stabbed and people largely co-exist with difference in tolerance (at least - often difference goes unnoticed). To be fair, that probably varies depending on whether you're living in a big city or small town.
Its interesting that your friends & colleagues pick up on these noises though - to me, that suggests that no-one is immune from social media driven bollox - even those living in petrol-driven relative wealth.
"I do feel that some of the issues you would hear about from abroad are overblown and magnified by malign actors with an agenda - most people aren't getting stabbed and people largely co-exist with difference in tolerance (at least - often difference goes unnoticed). To be fair, that probably varies depending on whether you're living in a big city or small town."
"Its interesting that your friends & colleagues pick up on these noises though - to me, that suggests that no-one is immune from social media driven bollox - even those living in petrol-driven relative wealth."
These are both points that I was trying to make. I maybe didn't make that clear.
What a very shambolic performance by Lammy today on 10:57 - Nov 7 by noggin
"I do feel that some of the issues you would hear about from abroad are overblown and magnified by malign actors with an agenda - most people aren't getting stabbed and people largely co-exist with difference in tolerance (at least - often difference goes unnoticed). To be fair, that probably varies depending on whether you're living in a big city or small town."
"Its interesting that your friends & colleagues pick up on these noises though - to me, that suggests that no-one is immune from social media driven bollox - even those living in petrol-driven relative wealth."
These are both points that I was trying to make. I maybe didn't make that clear.
Fair enough - maybe it was just my lack of reading skills.
Has anyone ever looked at their own postings for last day or so? Oh my... so sorry. Was Ullaa
What a very shambolic performance by Lammy today on 09:42 - Nov 7 by noggin
Having lived in Norway for 20 years, I now find political debate in the UK, fascinating. The constant sniping and endless blame gaming between the parties seems to consume far too much of the front benches' time. I guess the media is partly to blame for constantly whipping up public anger over, relatively, small problems, which then forces those issues to become priorities in parliamentary debate. Then, rather than sensible discussions over solutions, it descends into posturing and blaming each other. This obviously further enrages and divides the public. They feel like nobody is looking out for them.
Meanwhile, living standards (the real issue) appear to be falling for millions of hard working people, while huge profits are being extracted by massive, often foreign, corporations who are monopolising huge areas of commerce. The wealth of the super rich seems to be increasing massively, on a daily basis. Maybe this is just me reacting to the media coverage and social media debate that I am exposed to?
I realise Norway, in many ways, is, currently, in a privileged position and protected from a lot of the economic issues but there does seem to be a more 'grown up' political debate here. Grifters like Yaxley Lennon and even Farage just wouldn't get the attention here, that they get over there. The fact that Elon Musk is mentioned on a daily basis, in the British media, should frighten everyone. In recent months, Norwegian colleagues have asked me about sharia law, Islamist terrorism and 'out of control' knife crime, on the streets of Britain. They have clearly seen, online, misinformation and lies which gives them the impression that these issues are much bigger than the reality.
Am I reading too much into what I am witnessing in the UK? I feel desperately sad for the country where I grew up and where my family still lives. The future for today's children appears bleak and the huge increase in mental health issues would seem to back this up. The politicians keep talking about economic growth being needed to balance the books, but is that even possible now? Where will that growth come from when corporate profits are being transferred abroad. Before anyone accuses me of putting Britain down, that is not my intention. I want Britain to thrive and for the people to live productive and happy lives. I just don't see that happening from this side of the North Sea. Am I overreacting to the issues?
[Post edited 7 Nov 10:06]
One thing that strikes me as different with other countries in Europe is that there seems to be an acceptance that if you want decent public services, you have to pay for them.
Here the narrative is, and for a long time has been, driven by the notion that taxes are a bad thing.
I am also not sure that the mainstream media (and I don't mean that as a pejorative) in other countries is so partisan, with the right wing media in the UK largely dictating the agenda.
1
What a very shambolic performance by Lammy today on 11:16 - Nov 7 with 98 views
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