| Random question for a Saturday morning but pubs... 10:16 - Jan 17 with 2067 views | FrimleyBlue |
May be a localised thing. But have you seen an increase in how understaffed pubs and restaurants seem to be getting.
Took a work client out the other day. 10 tables with people having food
1 member of staff serving all. 1 helping behind the bar and 1 cook.
This was at 1pm..
Went to the same place last month and was the same so clearly a regular thing and not a one off
Then went yesterday to another place and a very similar low number of staff v number of people attending.
How have people found things where they are? |  |
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| Random question for a Saturday morning but pubs... on 11:55 - Jan 17 with 1642 views | Benters |
Plenty of staff in my local spoons and if you are bone idle you can use the app and order your ales from the comfort of your table. |  |
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| Random question for a Saturday morning but pubs... on 18:13 - Jan 17 with 1547 views | DJR |
| Random question for a Saturday morning but pubs... on 11:55 - Jan 17 by Benters |
Plenty of staff in my local spoons and if you are bone idle you can use the app and order your ales from the comfort of your table. |
That's not a very nice way to talk about my friend and me. 
He has the app, and I settle up with him at the end of the evening, and I must say it is a rather relaxing way of ordering beers.
As regards other pubs, the Greyhound is excellent on matchdays with plenty of staff.
And the pub I went to before the abandoned Blackburn game had only one person behind the bar but they were able to multi-task by serving several people at the same time. |  | | |
| Random question for a Saturday morning but pubs... on 19:04 - Jan 17 with 1503 views | ronnyd |
Wasn't the Table Table Ormande in Newmarket Premier Inn was it? Went there yesterday and just as well it wasn't busy as the poor lass simply couldn't cope. People also trying to check in but no staff available. Wife requires a wheelchair at the moment after having a stroke. but no one manning the desk to release the door to the lift access. Total farce.
Ended up in Spoons in desperation but the fish n' chips was quite good. |  | | |
| Random question for a Saturday morning but pubs... on 05:24 - Jan 18 with 1340 views | Benters |
| Random question for a Saturday morning but pubs... on 18:13 - Jan 17 by DJR |
That's not a very nice way to talk about my friend and me.
He has the app, and I settle up with him at the end of the evening, and I must say it is a rather relaxing way of ordering beers.
As regards other pubs, the Greyhound is excellent on matchdays with plenty of staff.
And the pub I went to before the abandoned Blackburn game had only one person behind the bar but they were able to multi-task by serving several people at the same time. |
I was in the playhouse in Colchester the other week sitting at a high table I’d say the bar was only about 3-4 foot away from my table.
I was ordering my drinks the traditional way a couple on the next table were ordering drinks via tha app,yet if you leaned over you could have touched the bar!
Unbelievable 😉 | |
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| Random question for a Saturday morning but pubs... on 08:20 - Jan 18 with 1240 views | catch74 |
Frimmers, before I post my long rant, does it surprise you that pubs are having to cut staff? I’m
just interested to know how much the man on the street understands the situation that pubs are in. |  |
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| Random question for a Saturday morning but pubs... (n/t) on 08:56 - Jan 18 with 1188 views | bazza |
Brexit [Post edited 18 Jan 8:57]
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| Random question for a Saturday morning but pubs... on 09:20 - Jan 18 with 1122 views | FrimleyBlue |
| Random question for a Saturday morning but pubs... on 08:20 - Jan 18 by catch74 |
Frimmers, before I post my long rant, does it surprise you that pubs are having to cut staff? I’m
just interested to know how much the man on the street understands the situation that pubs are in. |
Morning catch
Its not a suprise as such it was more the extremness of such it.
I knew many pubs and hospitality in general are struggling. But not the extent that there were ones running with that minimal staffing levels. | |
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| Random question for a Saturday morning but pubs... on 09:29 - Jan 18 with 1087 views | GlasgowBlue |
It’s a consequence in the increases in minimum wage, employer NI contributions, business rates increases and heating and lighting increases. Plus all of the aforementioned has had a drastic effect on the suppliers hospitality businesses use. Not all of it can be offset by price increases so hospitality businesses are making cuts where they can. And the obvious place fi start is staffing levels.
I have two coffee shops/restaurants. I now work six days a week most weeks rather than 5 in order to save in wages. In the bigger of the two places I have three chefs, of which two will work together. I’ve had to cut back on the start and finish times of the second chef to save money. And you have to base that on when you believe your busiest period will be. Although that is data driven it can be real seat of your pants time for the main chef if we get caught out by a sudden rush.
Same with table waiting staff. We have four out front at any one time plus a barista. Whereas before waiter/waitress number three would start at 10am and finish at 4pm, I’ve had to change that to 11am to 3pm.
These are savings many places like mine are having to make up and down the country in order to stay in business. We also have to accept that by making these savings we may not always present the best version of ourselves, to quote Mark Ashton. |  |
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| Random question for a Saturday morning but pubs... on 09:39 - Jan 18 with 1043 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Random question for a Saturday morning but pubs... on 09:20 - Jan 18 by FrimleyBlue |
Morning catch
Its not a suprise as such it was more the extremness of such it.
I knew many pubs and hospitality in general are struggling. But not the extent that there were ones running with that minimal staffing levels. |
Roughly 30 pubs a month are closing. | |
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| Random question for a Saturday morning but pubs... on 10:13 - Jan 18 with 1010 views | Benters |
| Random question for a Saturday morning but pubs... on 09:39 - Jan 18 by GlasgowBlue |
Roughly 30 pubs a month are closing. |
Thanks to Rachel Thieves. | |
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| Random question for a Saturday morning but pubs... (n/t) on 10:17 - Jan 18 with 992 views | Benters |
| Random question for a Saturday morning but pubs... (n/t) on 08:56 - Jan 18 by bazza |
Brexit [Post edited 18 Jan 8:57]
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Balls. | |
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| Random question for a Saturday morning but pubs... on 10:30 - Jan 18 with 953 views | MattinLondon |
| Random question for a Saturday morning but pubs... on 10:13 - Jan 18 by Benters |
Thanks to Rachel Thieves. |
Pubs have been closing down in vast numbers for years so I doubt whether it’s just a Labour thing.
Whereas once upon a time, the pub was where a community socialised, there are now vast number of entertainment venues people can go to instead. Plus, less people drink now and supermarkets are now a lot cheaper.
A bit like the high street, a lot of people like the idea of pubs but don’t necessarily use them frequently. |  | | |
| Random question for a Saturday morning but pubs... on 10:57 - Jan 18 with 902 views | Benters |
| Random question for a Saturday morning but pubs... on 10:30 - Jan 18 by MattinLondon |
Pubs have been closing down in vast numbers for years so I doubt whether it’s just a Labour thing.
Whereas once upon a time, the pub was where a community socialised, there are now vast number of entertainment venues people can go to instead. Plus, less people drink now and supermarkets are now a lot cheaper.
A bit like the high street, a lot of people like the idea of pubs but don’t necessarily use them frequently. |
They soon banned the Labour cronies from the battle cruisers though  | |
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| Random question for a Saturday morning but pubs... on 11:14 - Jan 18 with 879 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Random question for a Saturday morning but pubs... on 09:29 - Jan 18 by GlasgowBlue |
It’s a consequence in the increases in minimum wage, employer NI contributions, business rates increases and heating and lighting increases. Plus all of the aforementioned has had a drastic effect on the suppliers hospitality businesses use. Not all of it can be offset by price increases so hospitality businesses are making cuts where they can. And the obvious place fi start is staffing levels.
I have two coffee shops/restaurants. I now work six days a week most weeks rather than 5 in order to save in wages. In the bigger of the two places I have three chefs, of which two will work together. I’ve had to cut back on the start and finish times of the second chef to save money. And you have to base that on when you believe your busiest period will be. Although that is data driven it can be real seat of your pants time for the main chef if we get caught out by a sudden rush.
Same with table waiting staff. We have four out front at any one time plus a barista. Whereas before waiter/waitress number three would start at 10am and finish at 4pm, I’ve had to change that to 11am to 3pm.
These are savings many places like mine are having to make up and down the country in order to stay in business. We also have to accept that by making these savings we may not always present the best version of ourselves, to quote Mark Ashton. |
Have you seen a drop off in customer numbers? Swansea city centre used to be busy almost any night, but these days it can be like a morgue during the week. |  |
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| Random question for a Saturday morning but pubs... on 11:34 - Jan 18 with 844 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Random question for a Saturday morning but pubs... on 10:13 - Jan 18 by Benters |
Thanks to Rachel Thieves. |
In the last year of the Tory administration roughly 60 pubs a month were closing. So it's not just the polices of this current government.
However, the circumstances I listed in a previous thread haved far from helped an industry which was already in a perilous position. | |
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| Random question for a Saturday morning but pubs... on 12:07 - Jan 18 with 774 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Random question for a Saturday morning but pubs... on 11:14 - Jan 18 by Swansea_Blue |
Have you seen a drop off in customer numbers? Swansea city centre used to be busy almost any night, but these days it can be like a morgue during the week. |
There is a drop off in numbers. But some of that has to do with the chains moving into town. When I first opened there were two or three coffee shops/bistros in town. Now there are at least 10, with Costa, Starbucks etc throwing money at them and willing to take an initial hit if it closes a couple of the independents down.
We've had to adapt and expand our menu, which brings its own challenges. Then there is work from home post covid. We try to offset some of that by using Just Eat, Uber and Deliveroo but those fcers take 30% so it's doesn't leave a great margin.
The town centre where we are based can look like a ghost town in the winter time. | |
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| Random question for a Saturday morning but pubs... on 13:00 - Jan 18 with 685 views | barcelonablue2 |
| Random question for a Saturday morning but pubs... on 12:07 - Jan 18 by GlasgowBlue |
There is a drop off in numbers. But some of that has to do with the chains moving into town. When I first opened there were two or three coffee shops/bistros in town. Now there are at least 10, with Costa, Starbucks etc throwing money at them and willing to take an initial hit if it closes a couple of the independents down.
We've had to adapt and expand our menu, which brings its own challenges. Then there is work from home post covid. We try to offset some of that by using Just Eat, Uber and Deliveroo but those fcers take 30% so it's doesn't leave a great margin.
The town centre where we are based can look like a ghost town in the winter time. |
To add on with my perspective from the other side of the business. I had worked as a CDP for several years and also think the industry is just in a death spiral right now.
As a low wage chef in London you cannot afford to live on less than 60 hours a week and you cannot save serious cash under 80-100 hours.
With businesses cutting hours you must often work 2 jobs and have no time for socialising or studying.
On top of this some kitchens simply do not have the funds to train young people and cannot afford the food/ time/ energy prices for the mistakes of learning. As a result moving up in skills can be stuck at some restaurants and a few months to a year, staff get bored. They're not earning, they're not learning, they move on. The boss must rehire and the head chef must start from square one again.
I have been really unimpressed with a lot of Gen-Z staff, they are totally uninterested and it is seriously boring spending chunks of your time to tell them to do the basics of their job and just carry the plate or ask if the table want anything else.
Unless you get lucky and end up moving into the award end restaurants where the serious money is and you can learn, (IMO) there is absolutely no future in working in hospitality. The question is whether you have an out or not. I often speak to my previous colleagues and even those who love it have no desire to the stay in the kitchen as is, they just have no out.
I personally have now quit hospitality. I miss the kitchen with all my heart but nothing would convice me to go back. | | | |
| Random question for a Saturday morning but pubs... (n/t) on 14:33 - Jan 18 with 571 views | bazza |
| Random question for a Saturday morning but pubs... (n/t) on 10:17 - Jan 18 by Benters |
Balls. |
Whoosh. | | | |
| Random question for a Saturday morning but pubs... (n/t) on 15:20 - Jan 18 with 521 views | Benters |
| Random question for a Saturday morning but pubs... (n/t) on 14:33 - Jan 18 by bazza |
Whoosh. |
Fair play. | |
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| Random question for a Saturday morning but pubs... on 15:57 - Jan 18 with 455 views | brogansnose |
| Random question for a Saturday morning but pubs... on 10:30 - Jan 18 by MattinLondon |
Pubs have been closing down in vast numbers for years so I doubt whether it’s just a Labour thing.
Whereas once upon a time, the pub was where a community socialised, there are now vast number of entertainment venues people can go to instead. Plus, less people drink now and supermarkets are now a lot cheaper.
A bit like the high street, a lot of people like the idea of pubs but don’t necessarily use them frequently. |
It's not only in Britain that pubs are closing down, it's also on the continent with bars closing down at a steep rate.
As you say, the price of alcohol in supermarkets undercuts that charged in pubs which is heightend especially now in a time when the cost of living is high. The knock on effect is that we lose - I hate to put it this way- a community resource. As a society, and humans are in essence social animals, we are retreating to the confines of our houses decreasing social interaction by getting entertainment delivered directly, shopping delivered and even takeaways whilst drinking at home. No wonder people act more rudely to each other, there is rising mental health issues and that health profesionals are seeing a rise in alcohol issues.
It's not the answer to everything but hospitality needs a break in business rates and VAT charged. Lump VAT on shop sold alcohol instead. |  | | |
| Random question for a Saturday morning but pubs... on 16:08 - Jan 18 with 433 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Random question for a Saturday morning but pubs... on 15:57 - Jan 18 by brogansnose |
It's not only in Britain that pubs are closing down, it's also on the continent with bars closing down at a steep rate.
As you say, the price of alcohol in supermarkets undercuts that charged in pubs which is heightend especially now in a time when the cost of living is high. The knock on effect is that we lose - I hate to put it this way- a community resource. As a society, and humans are in essence social animals, we are retreating to the confines of our houses decreasing social interaction by getting entertainment delivered directly, shopping delivered and even takeaways whilst drinking at home. No wonder people act more rudely to each other, there is rising mental health issues and that health profesionals are seeing a rise in alcohol issues.
It's not the answer to everything but hospitality needs a break in business rates and VAT charged. Lump VAT on shop sold alcohol instead. |
The younger generation are leaning more towards sobriety than their parents, |  |
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| Random question for a Saturday morning but pubs... on 16:16 - Jan 18 with 416 views | catch74 |
| Random question for a Saturday morning but pubs... on 09:20 - Jan 18 by FrimleyBlue |
Morning catch
Its not a suprise as such it was more the extremness of such it.
I knew many pubs and hospitality in general are struggling. But not the extent that there were ones running with that minimal staffing levels. |
Yes, as others have said it’s a bloodbath out here at the moment. Glasgowblue has added a lot of what I was going to say, probably far more eloquently but here goes my twopenneth. (Apologies if I repeat what others have said
The combination of Brexit and Covid and the energy cost spike, associated with Russia invasion of Ukraine have not helped pubs, supplier costs up massively, a change quicker change in consumer habits - to supermarkets/ entertain at home/ stay at home. Pubs left with bounce back loans that had to be taken out as grants certainly didn’t cover costs. Supermarkets at the same time handed their grants back they were taking so much money.
Budgets - I had a rant about the last Conservative one (cheered in at the budget for the penny off the pint headline, hiding the biggest duty rise for pubs in 50 years.
Labour then came in with the increase in minimum wage and PAYE - we’ve cut stuff significantly but our wage cost has gone up and our monthly PAYE bill has increased by £7k per year. This has definitely hit smaller business and especially hospitality, our staff bill is always about 1/3 of sales - I think a supermarket usually about 15% - they can also just bung in a few extra self service tills - see also Wetherspoons and the already mentioned App - we just can’t and wouldn’t do that.
Then April’s budget added huge increases to business rates - 400% increase to a lot of pubs. Some have quoted £70k extra per year - that’s just the killer blow. Everything has already been stripped back to the bare bones, prices have been put up as high as they can go.
The costs of budgets have hit our suppliers too. I’ve just had April’s price rises in 5-7p per pint increase per pint - that’s going to mean 20p price increase plus whatever we need to add on to cover our extra costs.
This is not just killing off dingy sh!thole pubs with dirty bee lines, crap service, 5 customers this is killing top quality busy venues with incredible operators at the top of their game.
We’re lucky, our pub is busier, we’re in an affluent location and people seem to be able to absorb price rises but we’ve definitely looked at other options as it’s been 5 years of continuous cost rises and support being pulled.
There’s still a massive appetite for good pubs, I think good food is also very helpful but we need a government to finally treat the industry with the respect it deserves. Across most of Europe VAT in hospitality is about 10% below standard VAT, as it’s understood that’s a fair percentage - TaX the supermarkets, they can afford it.
So if you’ve got the is far Frimmers, staff cuts and earning well below the minimum wage as a pub owner is how a lot of places are affording what’s happened. I personally have could not vote for Labour as things stand. You can’t lie and say you’ll increase taxes on those who can afford and protect those who work hard. You won’t find many harder workers than a pub landlord. | |
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