| They'll block him (Andy Burnham) 09:27 - Jan 25 with 8694 views | gtsb1966 |
You just know they will. It will then lead to infighting and the party tearing itself apart. Starmer is so unpopular he is toast so just let him stand. If they block him that's one vote they've lost whatever happens in the future.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/art
This post has been edited by an administrator |  | | |  |
| They'll block him (Andy Burnham) on 23:03 - Jan 25 with 1197 views | Herbivore |
| They'll block him (Andy Burnham) on 21:36 - Jan 25 by Eastsuffolkblueloser |
That’s what happens with socialism. Always tear themselves apart. This gov is so left wing they’ve destroyed the country even quicker than any of us feared. Let’s get back to done sensible centre right policies and get Badenoch installed asap. This lot are destroying us |
Christ, where to even start with this. |  |
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| They'll block him on 00:21 - Jan 26 with 1119 views | Bigalhunter |
| They'll block him on 21:54 - Jan 25 by J2BLUE |
Benters is playing a character. No doubt loosely based on himself but heavily exaggerated. He's smart enough to constantly get your lot to bite... |
You had me right up until to the bit where you said ‘he’s smart enough’…
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| They'll block him (Andy Burnham) on 00:37 - Jan 26 with 1112 views | CrayonKing |
| They'll block him (Andy Burnham) on 23:03 - Jan 25 by Herbivore |
Christ, where to even start with this. |
Aside from its absurdity, it does show that however it positions itself a Labour government will always be painted as left-wing by the press, and by extension the gullible. The reality is that this is the most right-wing “Labour” government we’ve ever had. You can’t fight right-wing extremism by trying to ape it and what’s left of Labour really needs to grow a spine before it’s too late |  | | |
| They'll block him on 06:13 - Jan 26 with 1026 views | Benters |
| They'll block him on 21:43 - Jan 25 by Bigalhunter |
Further proof that you’re helplessly and irretrievably stupid enough to curl one off on the rug of someone who still, mistakenly, thinks you can be taken in, house trained and then trusted to assimilate simple, basic facts…
I’m actually actually warming to you now, simply for proving I was right to scoff at their postulating. |
That’s nice,I still wouldn’t have a pint with you though,I can imagine standing at the bar with you and thinking jeez he goes on a bit. |  |
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| They'll block him (Andy Burnham) on 06:17 - Jan 26 with 1023 views | Benters |
| They'll block him (Andy Burnham) on 17:42 - Jan 25 by BlueForYou |
Starmer doesnt like elections does he! He’s totally forgotten we are supposed to be living in a democracy. |
He’s a coward it’s that simple buh! | |
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| They'll block him (Andy Burnham) on 07:55 - Jan 26 with 950 views | Swansea_Blue |
| They'll block him (Andy Burnham) on 00:37 - Jan 26 by CrayonKing |
Aside from its absurdity, it does show that however it positions itself a Labour government will always be painted as left-wing by the press, and by extension the gullible. The reality is that this is the most right-wing “Labour” government we’ve ever had. You can’t fight right-wing extremism by trying to ape it and what’s left of Labour really needs to grow a spine before it’s too late |
There’s something in that. They are tending towards the most right wing we’ve had, (edit - for clarity, that doesn’t necessarily mean they are right wing as some are saying) but at the same time they are hard to pigeon hole into an ideology. On the one hand they’re implementing strong socialist policies (e.g. re-nationalisation of the railways, strengthening workers rights). On the other, they’re as right wing and sometimes more than the last Tories (on things like immigration, and removal of human rights re. protest).
Their actions clearly make a mockery of any lazy characterisation as lefties/socialists/commies. But it’s quite frightening how many people are quick to parrot attack lines from the gutter press. [Post edited 26 Jan 9:21]
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| They'll block him (Andy Burnham) on 08:30 - Jan 26 with 920 views | DJR |
The fact that so many threads end up talking about, and smearing, Corbyn makes me think that if the Brothers Grimms were about today, many of their tales would feature Corbyn as the bogeyman with a view to warning children about the dangers of the world.
As it is, I didn't vote for Corbyn as leader but the longer his leadership went on, the more I realised how many lies and how much nonsense was written about him, with the Guardian more than happy to oblige. This article from Peter Oborne gives a flavour of the smears he has had to endure since he ceased to be leader.
https://www.declassifieduk.org
He concludes.
"Collectively they show that everything written in the papers about Jeremy Corbyn should be assumed false unless proved otherwise. It’s the wild west out there for the former Labour leader: any smear will do, however false and malicious, and Britain’s mainstream media is often ready to leap to attention."
These two other articles from Oborne are also worth reading.
https://www.middleeasteye.net/
https://www.middleeasteye.net/
The second contains this passage.
"Let’s imagine that Corbyn had somehow won the last election. That he had then filled up Labour Party coffers with Russian money; that his party chairman had an office in Moscow to advise oligarchs; that Corbyn personally had repeatedly visited a Russian oligarch whose father had been a KGB agent and close friend of Putin, and that he had been reported to have ignored security service objections to secure this friend a peerage, and funnelled government money towards his paper.
For day after day there would have been front-page denunciations of Corbyn. He couldn’t have survived. In my view rightly so. Yet Johnson is the one who’s done all of these things. But Corbyn is the one who’s supposed to be pro-Putin.
This is deranged."
As it is, mud sticks, as was the intention and as evidenced by media-driven tropes trotted out about Corbyn on TWTD.
Of course, this is not to say that Corbyn was leadership materiral but I believe in fairness, and I don't think Corbyn was ever treated with fairness, even by the Guardian and the vast majority of his own MPs. In effect, he didn't stand a chance.
EDIT: as an aside, Oborne, a one-time member of the Tory media establishment, has been banished from the UK media for expressing such views as this. [Post edited 26 Jan 8:54]
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| They'll block him (Andy Burnham) on 09:20 - Jan 26 with 863 views | Swansea_Blue |
| They'll block him (Andy Burnham) on 08:30 - Jan 26 by DJR |
The fact that so many threads end up talking about, and smearing, Corbyn makes me think that if the Brothers Grimms were about today, many of their tales would feature Corbyn as the bogeyman with a view to warning children about the dangers of the world.
As it is, I didn't vote for Corbyn as leader but the longer his leadership went on, the more I realised how many lies and how much nonsense was written about him, with the Guardian more than happy to oblige. This article from Peter Oborne gives a flavour of the smears he has had to endure since he ceased to be leader.
https://www.declassifieduk.org
He concludes.
"Collectively they show that everything written in the papers about Jeremy Corbyn should be assumed false unless proved otherwise. It’s the wild west out there for the former Labour leader: any smear will do, however false and malicious, and Britain’s mainstream media is often ready to leap to attention."
These two other articles from Oborne are also worth reading.
https://www.middleeasteye.net/
https://www.middleeasteye.net/
The second contains this passage.
"Let’s imagine that Corbyn had somehow won the last election. That he had then filled up Labour Party coffers with Russian money; that his party chairman had an office in Moscow to advise oligarchs; that Corbyn personally had repeatedly visited a Russian oligarch whose father had been a KGB agent and close friend of Putin, and that he had been reported to have ignored security service objections to secure this friend a peerage, and funnelled government money towards his paper.
For day after day there would have been front-page denunciations of Corbyn. He couldn’t have survived. In my view rightly so. Yet Johnson is the one who’s done all of these things. But Corbyn is the one who’s supposed to be pro-Putin.
This is deranged."
As it is, mud sticks, as was the intention and as evidenced by media-driven tropes trotted out about Corbyn on TWTD.
Of course, this is not to say that Corbyn was leadership materiral but I believe in fairness, and I don't think Corbyn was ever treated with fairness, even by the Guardian and the vast majority of his own MPs. In effect, he didn't stand a chance.
EDIT: as an aside, Oborne, a one-time member of the Tory media establishment, has been banished from the UK media for expressing such views as this. [Post edited 26 Jan 8:54]
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Within the context of all the slurs, it’s very odd that Starmer’s Labour are very good at having a tight narrative against Corbyn, yet at the same time seem incapable of communicating a vision or even any successes to the electorate.
Anyway, I’m off to get some popcorn after that robust defence of Corbyn  | |
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| They'll block him (Andy Burnham) on 09:26 - Jan 26 with 836 views | jasondozzell |
| They'll block him (Andy Burnham) on 07:55 - Jan 26 by Swansea_Blue |
There’s something in that. They are tending towards the most right wing we’ve had, (edit - for clarity, that doesn’t necessarily mean they are right wing as some are saying) but at the same time they are hard to pigeon hole into an ideology. On the one hand they’re implementing strong socialist policies (e.g. re-nationalisation of the railways, strengthening workers rights). On the other, they’re as right wing and sometimes more than the last Tories (on things like immigration, and removal of human rights re. protest).
Their actions clearly make a mockery of any lazy characterisation as lefties/socialists/commies. But it’s quite frightening how many people are quick to parrot attack lines from the gutter press. [Post edited 26 Jan 9:21]
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They haven't fully renationalised the railways. We're still paying out of our noses to hire the rolling stock and prices remain eye watering.
They watered down the worker's rights bill. |  | | |
| They'll block him (Andy Burnham) on 09:42 - Jan 26 with 819 views | DJR |
| They'll block him (Andy Burnham) on 09:26 - Jan 26 by jasondozzell |
They haven't fully renationalised the railways. We're still paying out of our noses to hire the rolling stock and prices remain eye watering.
They watered down the worker's rights bill. |
And if the LNER privatisation is a yardstick (which Private Eye suggests it is), we can look forward to the more widespread abolition of return and off-peak return fares. In this connection, I paid £120 (with a rail card) to get to and from the Newcastle game.
Here are some comments on the changes on a rail forum.
"I just tried to buy a return ticket from London to Edinburgh and am bamboozled by how much LNER's fare system has changed since I last booked (which wasn't very long ago).
I usually buy an off-peak return. Even if I'm happy to commit to a specific outward journey, I like the flexibility of not being committed to a specific return journey.
But LNER's website says they've abolished most return fares. I have to buy two singles. They no longer use the term 'advance single' - it's now a 'fixed' single.
And I can't find anything which gives me the equivalent of an off-peak return. For the return journey I can choose between 'fixed', 'semi-flexible' or 'fully flexible'.
I guess 'fully flexible' is the equivalent of an expensive 'anytime' ticket. But 'semi-flexible' is very different to an off-peak ticket - the flexibility only extends to 70 minutes either side of the train you select.
Am I the only person who thinks this is rubbish."
"This is very bad news for passengers.
More expensive
Less flexible
No transparency of pricing
Removal of the cap on what can be charged
It seems to me that this is the model that DfT/RDG/GBR will use for long distance fares across the network.
If you want trains to operate like an airline then you’ll be pleased with this. But if you value the walk on railway with flexible tickets then it’s gone." [Post edited 26 Jan 9:44]
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| They'll block him (Andy Burnham) on 10:06 - Jan 26 with 759 views | Pinewoodblue |
| They'll block him (Andy Burnham) on 08:30 - Jan 26 by DJR |
The fact that so many threads end up talking about, and smearing, Corbyn makes me think that if the Brothers Grimms were about today, many of their tales would feature Corbyn as the bogeyman with a view to warning children about the dangers of the world.
As it is, I didn't vote for Corbyn as leader but the longer his leadership went on, the more I realised how many lies and how much nonsense was written about him, with the Guardian more than happy to oblige. This article from Peter Oborne gives a flavour of the smears he has had to endure since he ceased to be leader.
https://www.declassifieduk.org
He concludes.
"Collectively they show that everything written in the papers about Jeremy Corbyn should be assumed false unless proved otherwise. It’s the wild west out there for the former Labour leader: any smear will do, however false and malicious, and Britain’s mainstream media is often ready to leap to attention."
These two other articles from Oborne are also worth reading.
https://www.middleeasteye.net/
https://www.middleeasteye.net/
The second contains this passage.
"Let’s imagine that Corbyn had somehow won the last election. That he had then filled up Labour Party coffers with Russian money; that his party chairman had an office in Moscow to advise oligarchs; that Corbyn personally had repeatedly visited a Russian oligarch whose father had been a KGB agent and close friend of Putin, and that he had been reported to have ignored security service objections to secure this friend a peerage, and funnelled government money towards his paper.
For day after day there would have been front-page denunciations of Corbyn. He couldn’t have survived. In my view rightly so. Yet Johnson is the one who’s done all of these things. But Corbyn is the one who’s supposed to be pro-Putin.
This is deranged."
As it is, mud sticks, as was the intention and as evidenced by media-driven tropes trotted out about Corbyn on TWTD.
Of course, this is not to say that Corbyn was leadership materiral but I believe in fairness, and I don't think Corbyn was ever treated with fairness, even by the Guardian and the vast majority of his own MPs. In effect, he didn't stand a chance.
EDIT: as an aside, Oborne, a one-time member of the Tory media establishment, has been banished from the UK media for expressing such views as this. [Post edited 26 Jan 8:54]
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Corbyn only just managed to get in the ballot with a last minute rush of MPs nominations him, almost as if he was in the ballot as a sop to the party left.
I was surprised how do many of Labour Party members, I knew, who began as Burnham supporters but switched, at the last minute, to Corbyn.
As far as Brexit is concerned I believe that the Labour Party decision makers were fearful of a repeat of what happened in Scotland. They couldn’t whole heartedly back remain because it meant supporting Tories. In the Scottish referendum supporting the establishment, and therefore supporting a Tory government lead to a big switch, at following elections , from Labour to SNP.
On Burnham he could have stood as an independent, but wisely has offered his support to whoever the csndidstes is. He is still potentially a future Labour leader. |  |
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| They'll block him (Andy Burnham) on 10:10 - Jan 26 with 747 views | Swansea_Blue |
| They'll block him (Andy Burnham) on 09:26 - Jan 26 by jasondozzell |
They haven't fully renationalised the railways. We're still paying out of our noses to hire the rolling stock and prices remain eye watering.
They watered down the worker's rights bill. |
Both true, but they’ve moved more to the left on those issues than where we were. They’re broadly socialist on those areas, even if they bottled some of the original plans. | |
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| They'll block him (Andy Burnham) on 10:38 - Jan 26 with 694 views | DJR |
| They'll block him (Andy Burnham) on 10:06 - Jan 26 by Pinewoodblue |
Corbyn only just managed to get in the ballot with a last minute rush of MPs nominations him, almost as if he was in the ballot as a sop to the party left.
I was surprised how do many of Labour Party members, I knew, who began as Burnham supporters but switched, at the last minute, to Corbyn.
As far as Brexit is concerned I believe that the Labour Party decision makers were fearful of a repeat of what happened in Scotland. They couldn’t whole heartedly back remain because it meant supporting Tories. In the Scottish referendum supporting the establishment, and therefore supporting a Tory government lead to a big switch, at following elections , from Labour to SNP.
On Burnham he could have stood as an independent, but wisely has offered his support to whoever the csndidstes is. He is still potentially a future Labour leader. |
Corbyn could well be described as the Accidental Leader.
It was "his turn" to be the candidate from the left, but no one who nominated him could have envisaged what would happen. | | | |
| They'll block him (Andy Burnham) on 10:42 - Jan 26 with 685 views | Blueschev |
| They'll block him (Andy Burnham) on 10:38 - Jan 26 by DJR |
Corbyn could well be described as the Accidental Leader.
It was "his turn" to be the candidate from the left, but no one who nominated him could have envisaged what would happen. |
Indeed, but at the time I thought that was daft. Labour members have always been to the left of the PLP. After the first hustings I thought it was clear Corbyn was going to win, there was far more enthusiasm for him than anybody else. |  | | |
| They'll block him (Andy Burnham) on 10:43 - Jan 26 with 685 views | DJR |
| They'll block him (Andy Burnham) on 22:11 - Jan 25 by DJR |
You can't say it's accurate. You're just speculating.
But easier to blame it on Corbyn than the right wing press, Johnson, Cummings, Farage, Cameron, the global crash, austerity, de-industrialisation, immigration, sovereignty etc. [Post edited 25 Jan 22:17]
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I forgot to mention Project Fear but perhaps more pertinently I came across this article.
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.
Jeremy Corbyn Did As Much As Nicola Sturgeon To Campaign Against Brexit, Top Pollster Says
It is 'nonsense' to cast Corbyn as the 'devil incarnate'.
Jeremy Corbyn did just as much to convince supporters to back Remain in the EU referendum as Nicola Sturgeon, a senior pollster claimed today.
The Labour leader has long faced claims that he failed to inspire voters to stop Brexit, but those were given short shrift by Professor John Curtice on Wednesday.
Curtice, who is President of the UK Polling Council, said it was “nonsense” to suggest Corbyn was the “devil incarnate” for how he campaigned during the EU referendum.
According to the BBC, he said: “The whole argument about Jeremy Corbyn – I understand where it’s coming from – but in terms of hard stats, if Jeremy Corbyn should be out on his ear, so should Nicola Sturgeon.
“Apparently Nicola Sturgeon was Saint Remain, and Jeremy Corbyn was the devil incarnate himself - statistically this is nonsense.”
“Jeremy Corbyn was no less successful than Nicola Sturgeon in getting Labour voters to vote Remain.”
[Post edited 26 Jan 10:47]
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| They'll block him on 10:53 - Jan 26 with 644 views | Benters |
| They'll block him on 21:54 - Jan 25 by J2BLUE |
Benters is playing a character. No doubt loosely based on himself but heavily exaggerated. He's smart enough to constantly get your lot to bite... |
I’m really not 🤓 | |
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| They'll block him (Andy Burnham) on 12:16 - Jan 26 with 555 views | JammyDodgerrr |
| They'll block him (Andy Burnham) on 21:06 - Jan 25 by jasondozzell |
Haha.
He's going in May.
What do you think is going to happen in the May elections? |
He isn't going to step down and the party doesn't have a mechanism that he would lose on. He's going nowhere - he's made that very clear and i think he would hold to it, irrespective of any results in May. |  |
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| They'll block him (Andy Burnham) on 13:38 - Jan 26 with 505 views | redrickstuhaart |
| They'll block him (Andy Burnham) on 22:11 - Jan 25 by DJR |
You can't say it's accurate. You're just speculating.
But easier to blame it on Corbyn than the right wing press, Johnson, Cummings, Farage, Cameron, the global crash, austerity, de-industrialisation, immigration, sovereignty etc. [Post edited 25 Jan 22:17]
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Its not speculation. He was and is anti EU. He had a lot of grassroots support at the time. If a small percentage of those had been persuaded to vote remain by him, the result (which was close) would have been different. Its a fact. |  |
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| They'll block him (Andy Burnham) on 14:18 - Jan 26 with 469 views | DJR |
| They'll block him (Andy Burnham) on 13:38 - Jan 26 by redrickstuhaart |
Its not speculation. He was and is anti EU. He had a lot of grassroots support at the time. If a small percentage of those had been persuaded to vote remain by him, the result (which was close) would have been different. Its a fact. |
You must have missed my earlier follow up to what I posted. But here it is again.
I forgot to mention Project Fear but perhaps more pertinently I came across this article.
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.
Jeremy Corbyn Did As Much As Nicola Sturgeon To Campaign Against Brexit, Top Pollster Says
It is 'nonsense' to cast Corbyn as the 'devil incarnate'.
Jeremy Corbyn did just as much to convince supporters to back Remain in the EU referendum as Nicola Sturgeon, a senior pollster claimed today.
The Labour leader has long faced claims that he failed to inspire voters to stop Brexit, but those were given short shrift by Professor John Curtice on Wednesday.
Curtice, who is President of the UK Polling Council, said it was “nonsense” to suggest Corbyn was the “devil incarnate” for how he campaigned during the EU referendum.
According to the BBC, he said: “The whole argument about Jeremy Corbyn – I understand where it’s coming from – but in terms of hard stats, if Jeremy Corbyn should be out on his ear, so should Nicola Sturgeon.
“Apparently Nicola Sturgeon was Saint Remain, and Jeremy Corbyn was the devil incarnate himself - statistically this is nonsense.”
“Jeremy Corbyn was no less successful than Nicola Sturgeon in getting Labour voters to vote Remain.” | | | |
| They'll block him on 20:31 - Jan 26 with 397 views | Bigalhunter |
| They'll block him on 10:53 - Jan 26 by Benters |
I’m really not 🤓 |
Good for you, Benters, at least you own it!
Nothing worse than having a couple of ‘Right Lite’ self-important types patronising you and passing your views off as a wind-up…
You’ve got one of them saying you just need engagement whilst the other one argues that your opinions are exaggerated to wind up those with a sense of common decency and fairness…
It must be a nightmare but just stick to your guns.
I bet that ‘spoons was rocking this morning as news broke of Suella joining the good fight.. [Post edited 26 Jan 20:41]
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| They'll block him (Andy Burnham) on 20:36 - Jan 26 with 372 views | jasondozzell |
| They'll block him (Andy Burnham) on 13:38 - Jan 26 by redrickstuhaart |
Its not speculation. He was and is anti EU. He had a lot of grassroots support at the time. If a small percentage of those had been persuaded to vote remain by him, the result (which was close) would have been different. Its a fact. |
He gave the EU 7 out of 10. So no, he wasn't anti EU.
It's a trading bloc and it isn't perfect. Think he was right to be honest.
If centrists had focused half as much time on the actual state of this country instead of Brexit obsession we might be in a better place. But that would have required self examination and realising that their third way politics was hopelessly dated. It would also have meant them having to give up their power and influence which for Zone 2 pundits (i.e Polly Toynbee) wasn't acceptable. [Post edited 26 Jan 20:37]
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| They'll block him (Andy Burnham) on 20:41 - Jan 26 with 364 views | redrickstuhaart |
| They'll block him (Andy Burnham) on 20:36 - Jan 26 by jasondozzell |
He gave the EU 7 out of 10. So no, he wasn't anti EU.
It's a trading bloc and it isn't perfect. Think he was right to be honest.
If centrists had focused half as much time on the actual state of this country instead of Brexit obsession we might be in a better place. But that would have required self examination and realising that their third way politics was hopelessly dated. It would also have meant them having to give up their power and influence which for Zone 2 pundits (i.e Polly Toynbee) wasn't acceptable. [Post edited 26 Jan 20:37]
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Oh come off it.
He was conspicuously luke-warm, which is the whole point. He gave the impression he was saying what he ought to, according to the party, but realy didn;t believe it. | |
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| They'll block him (Andy Burnham) on 20:46 - Jan 26 with 357 views | jasondozzell |
| They'll block him (Andy Burnham) on 20:41 - Jan 26 by redrickstuhaart |
Oh come off it.
He was conspicuously luke-warm, which is the whole point. He gave the impression he was saying what he ought to, according to the party, but realy didn;t believe it. |
So we've now gone from 'he didn't support remain' to 'he did support remain but the expression in his voice wasn't enough and this was picked up on by the famously observant British public who all voted to leave as a result.' | | | |
| They'll block him (Andy Burnham) on 20:52 - Jan 26 with 350 views | redrickstuhaart |
| They'll block him (Andy Burnham) on 20:46 - Jan 26 by jasondozzell |
So we've now gone from 'he didn't support remain' to 'he did support remain but the expression in his voice wasn't enough and this was picked up on by the famously observant British public who all voted to leave as a result.' |
My original statement was "Corbyn remains guilty of subjecting us to Brexit. A positive campaign by him would have swung it." Which remains a valid statement.
I am well aware that he notionally supported remain. But he did not undertake any sort of positive campaign, when Cameron et al were doing so. Had he done so, he needed only to take a small percentage of his support base with him to have shifted the vote. | |
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| They'll block him on 20:54 - Jan 26 with 347 views | redrickstuhaart |
| They'll block him on 16:15 - Jan 25 by Benters |
Stitched the pensioners up.
Stitched the farmers up.
Tried his hardest to give the Chagos Islands away.
All this while the rubber boat men live in four star luxury costing millions a day.
Andy Burnham
looks shifty to me,apparently he doesn’t like Tunnocks Tea Cakes either ffs! [Post edited 25 Jan 16:22]
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Stiched pensioners up in what way? Maintaining triple lock so they are improving their position faster than most other people and costing a fortune which has to be paid for somehow (so you criticise tax increases)?
No farmers have been stitched up. They are still being asked ot pay far less than everyone else from their multi million pound assets on death.
Chagos deal was negotiated by the previous government.
If that is your best shot, you should reflect on you real reasons for the very robust position you take. | |
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