| Suella Braverman the latest to defect to Reform. 12:17 - Jan 26 with 4412 views | SitfcB |
[Post edited 26 Jan 12:28]
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| Suella Braverman the latest to defect to Reform. on 17:14 - Jan 26 with 731 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Suella Braverman the latest to defect to Reform. on 16:42 - Jan 26 by iamatractorboy |
Part of me wonders if Farage will even want the PM job if, god help us, he gets in. Because that is an actual proper job requiring hard work and surely he wont be able to carry on with the dozen other jobs (or whatever it is) that he currently steals a living for. Or does he go down the Trump route, with some sort of crypto scam, fungible tokens, or even Farage/Reform branded tat, maybe light blue 'Make Britain Great Again' baseball cap rubbish? |
He will want the prestige and the ability to stick two fingers up to his peers who have always mocked him. He certainly won’t want the work or be prepared to put in the hard yards and take responsibility. It would overwhelm him; he’d oversee a sh*tshow and crumble like Johnson did. |  |
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| Suella Braverman the latest to defect to Reform. on 18:05 - Jan 26 with 661 views | Herbivore |
| Suella Braverman the latest to defect to Reform. on 17:03 - Jan 26 by jasondozzell |
Being a snake oil salesman and a talented politician aren't necessarily mutually exclusive... |
But what does he offer beyond being a snake oil salesman? I'm not seeing it. |  |
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| Suella Braverman the latest to defect to Reform. on 18:10 - Jan 26 with 645 views | Dubtractor |
| Suella Braverman the latest to defect to Reform. on 18:05 - Jan 26 by Herbivore |
But what does he offer beyond being a snake oil salesman? I'm not seeing it. |
I'm with you.
He's a very good orator, can hold a crowd etc, but to be a good politician is about more than just winning the votes in the first place, it is about effectively creating and implementing policy, about creating consensus where it doesn't exist beforehand, about actually representing the constituents who voted for you. Hello Clacton! |  |
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| Suella Braverman the latest to defect to Reform. on 18:13 - Jan 26 with 633 views | positivity |
| Suella Braverman the latest to defect to Reform. on 18:10 - Jan 26 by Dubtractor |
I'm with you.
He's a very good orator, can hold a crowd etc, but to be a good politician is about more than just winning the votes in the first place, it is about effectively creating and implementing policy, about creating consensus where it doesn't exist beforehand, about actually representing the constituents who voted for you. Hello Clacton! |
yes, very, very similar to george galloway in so many ways |  |
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| Suella Braverman the latest to defect to Reform. on 18:15 - Jan 26 with 627 views | bournemouthblue |
| Suella Braverman the latest to defect to Reform. on 15:19 - Jan 26 by jasondozzell |
Oh I don't doubt that a Reform government would be a disaster. After all, it will be hard right. We needed democratic socialism in 2019 as a response to the financial crisis and austerity. It wasn't allowed.
But I think Farage is a skillful politician. There's more there than just selling snake oil. But of course being a very capable politician and being a good leader are two different things.
I also think that many, including the establishment, are still unaware of the scale of anger in the country and the extent to which this present government is loathed.
I left the Labour party after it made clear that it wanted to 'shake off the fleas'. I won't vote for them again. I voted Green in 2024.
And if their election offering is 'vote for us or get Farage' they won't deserve anyone's votes. Like the Dems in 2024.
We need radical change and people with principles.. The old world is dead. My opinion for some time has been that it might take a political earthquake like the one that is coming to wake up people who have continued to try and reheat Blairism 25 years after its time. |
I like the Greens but that will be the state of the next election. The Greens and Lib Dems also gaining a footing I should imagine
I wouldn't be surprised to see Reform work an alliance as they did with the Tories when they were the Brexit Party
Labour are very stubborn but a rainbow alliance might be what is needed to stop the above happening [Post edited 26 Jan 18:17]
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| Suella Braverman the latest to defect to Reform. on 18:22 - Jan 26 with 612 views | jasondozzell |
| Suella Braverman the latest to defect to Reform. on 18:05 - Jan 26 by Herbivore |
But what does he offer beyond being a snake oil salesman? I'm not seeing it. |
Any historian writing about the last 25 years plus will undoubtedly identify Farage as a hugely consequential figure.
A party he created 7 years ago is going to form the next government. You and me might not like what he's selling at all but you don't achieve that through a lack of political acumen.
And again, you can be a good campaigning politician but not necessarily a good leader. |  | | |
| Suella Braverman the latest to defect to Reform. on 18:26 - Jan 26 with 609 views | jasondozzell |
| Suella Braverman the latest to defect to Reform. on 18:15 - Jan 26 by bournemouthblue |
I like the Greens but that will be the state of the next election. The Greens and Lib Dems also gaining a footing I should imagine
I wouldn't be surprised to see Reform work an alliance as they did with the Tories when they were the Brexit Party
Labour are very stubborn but a rainbow alliance might be what is needed to stop the above happening [Post edited 26 Jan 18:17]
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Yes, I think Reform and Greens will make breathtaking gains in next election.
Reform deal with Tories now seems less likely to me after the hostility over defections. Tim Montgomerie made a good point on World at One today on R4. Reform brand relies on distance from Tories in north especially. Not impossible a deal is done late on though.
The good news is that support for Labour and Tories is dead amongst the young. So once the Reform nightmare is over there is a sliver of hope. We've just got to wait 15-20 years... | | | |
| Suella Braverman the latest to defect to Reform. on 18:31 - Jan 26 with 592 views | Herbivore |
| Suella Braverman the latest to defect to Reform. on 18:22 - Jan 26 by jasondozzell |
Any historian writing about the last 25 years plus will undoubtedly identify Farage as a hugely consequential figure.
A party he created 7 years ago is going to form the next government. You and me might not like what he's selling at all but you don't achieve that through a lack of political acumen.
And again, you can be a good campaigning politician but not necessarily a good leader. |
You still haven't given any concrete examples of what he does that makes him a good politician other than being a snake oil salesman.
If he forms the next government it will be because of his qualities as a snake oil salesman. It will also be because successive governments have been useless and have been as happy as Farage to demonise immigrants to cover up for a multitude of complex problems the country faces. It'll also be because he's always been platformed a lot, even when a fringe figure, because the elite in this country naturally dresses to the right. It won't be because he possesses incredible political talents.
Part of being a good politician is having principles, part of it is hard work, part of it is being dedicated to public service. He offers none of those things. Don't equate being successful with being capable, look at Boris Johnson ffs. And look at Ladbaby having more Christmas number 1s than the Beatles. Grifters can get a long way in the UK with no discernable talent. | |
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| Suella Braverman the latest to defect to Reform. on 18:53 - Jan 26 with 557 views | jasondozzell |
| Suella Braverman the latest to defect to Reform. on 18:31 - Jan 26 by Herbivore |
You still haven't given any concrete examples of what he does that makes him a good politician other than being a snake oil salesman.
If he forms the next government it will be because of his qualities as a snake oil salesman. It will also be because successive governments have been useless and have been as happy as Farage to demonise immigrants to cover up for a multitude of complex problems the country faces. It'll also be because he's always been platformed a lot, even when a fringe figure, because the elite in this country naturally dresses to the right. It won't be because he possesses incredible political talents.
Part of being a good politician is having principles, part of it is hard work, part of it is being dedicated to public service. He offers none of those things. Don't equate being successful with being capable, look at Boris Johnson ffs. And look at Ladbaby having more Christmas number 1s than the Beatles. Grifters can get a long way in the UK with no discernable talent. |
He's a canny political operator.
You'll forgive me if I don't provide an exhaustive list of all examples as it's a bit of a depressing thing to be doing on a Monday evening (second only to me being about to watch Norwich through gritted teeth hoping they thump Cov).
But in terms of most recently:
Has shown remarkable media instinct - especially in terms of social media. Reform streets ahead of the traditional parties on this from very early on.
Strong orator. Imagine him versus Starmer in any debate.
Has tapped into one of the prevailing trends in this country which is the expansion of the petit bourgeoisie and its cultural views.
Has shifted his politics in part to attract the pb. It's still Thatcherism but with some elements of the left believe it or not. Family capital v global. Some other eye catching left leaning ideas in manifesto (look at proposal on doctors and nurses student debt).
His reaction to Port Talbot steel crisis was to the left of Labour. Very important moment. Sort of muscular nationalism..
Hads realised the importance of place and parties restablishing physical presence. Reform pub in Blackpool! It might get mocked but...
Instinct to attack opponents in a systematic and strategic way. Tories first then Labour. [Post edited 26 Jan 18:55]
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| Suella Braverman the latest to defect to Reform. on 18:57 - Jan 26 with 543 views | reusersfreekicks |
| Suella Braverman the latest to defect to Reform. on 14:19 - Jan 26 by Benters |
They only come about a foot off the French coast then our mugs go and pick them up. |
You're so ill informed on almost every subject.
It's depressing that people like you believing all that Daily Mail nonsense are going to lead us to an authoritarian state.
Open your eyes and leave the cult |  | | |
| Suella Braverman the latest to defect to Reform. on 19:01 - Jan 26 with 536 views | reusersfreekicks |
| Suella Braverman the latest to defect to Reform. on 14:41 - Jan 26 by Herbivore |
The French have now started intercepting boats as part of new agreements with the UK. This is something politicians like Braverman, Zahawi and Jenrick weren't able to achieve when in government. Given that immigration is the only political issue you seem interested in, it's odd that you are so anti-Labour when they've done far more on the issue of immigration than their predecessors. It's also odd that you're planning to vote for a party that's now made up of the same people who were less effective at tackling immigration than Labour have been. It's almost like you aren't too clued up, Benters. |
It's politics of identity and belonging.
Nothing to do with real life or facts.
I suspect there is nothing Farage could do or say that would stop many tragic people voting for him.
Deeply frustrating and dangerous | | | |
| Suella Braverman the latest to defect to Reform. on 19:04 - Jan 26 with 527 views | Herbivore |
| Suella Braverman the latest to defect to Reform. on 18:53 - Jan 26 by jasondozzell |
He's a canny political operator.
You'll forgive me if I don't provide an exhaustive list of all examples as it's a bit of a depressing thing to be doing on a Monday evening (second only to me being about to watch Norwich through gritted teeth hoping they thump Cov).
But in terms of most recently:
Has shown remarkable media instinct - especially in terms of social media. Reform streets ahead of the traditional parties on this from very early on.
Strong orator. Imagine him versus Starmer in any debate.
Has tapped into one of the prevailing trends in this country which is the expansion of the petit bourgeoisie and its cultural views.
Has shifted his politics in part to attract the pb. It's still Thatcherism but with some elements of the left believe it or not. Family capital v global. Some other eye catching left leaning ideas in manifesto (look at proposal on doctors and nurses student debt).
His reaction to Port Talbot steel crisis was to the left of Labour. Very important moment. Sort of muscular nationalism..
Hads realised the importance of place and parties restablishing physical presence. Reform pub in Blackpool! It might get mocked but...
Instinct to attack opponents in a systematic and strategic way. Tories first then Labour. [Post edited 26 Jan 18:55]
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It's all just route one populism, aka selling snake oil, that you've outlined there though, smattered with the usual displeasure at Labour and Starmer. I actually don't think Farage would wipe the floor with Starmer in a properly moderated debate because Farage is not good at being across the detail. Whenever he's challenged even slightly he falls apart and either goes on the attack or walks away. Sure, give him a lectern and a few soft balls and he sounds pretty convincing but any pressure or scrutiny he struggles badly with.
The qualities he has do not make him a good politician. They make him appeal to certain demographics but that was true of Johnson and is true of Trump, neither of whom are good politicians either. Ego and ambition can get you a decent way in life, especially if you come from money. As I said, achieving success also does not mean you're good, plenty of people (usually white men) have blagged their way to the top over the years. | |
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| Suella Braverman the latest to defect to Reform. on 20:13 - Jan 26 with 466 views | jasondozzell |
| Suella Braverman the latest to defect to Reform. on 19:04 - Jan 26 by Herbivore |
It's all just route one populism, aka selling snake oil, that you've outlined there though, smattered with the usual displeasure at Labour and Starmer. I actually don't think Farage would wipe the floor with Starmer in a properly moderated debate because Farage is not good at being across the detail. Whenever he's challenged even slightly he falls apart and either goes on the attack or walks away. Sure, give him a lectern and a few soft balls and he sounds pretty convincing but any pressure or scrutiny he struggles badly with.
The qualities he has do not make him a good politician. They make him appeal to certain demographics but that was true of Johnson and is true of Trump, neither of whom are good politicians either. Ego and ambition can get you a decent way in life, especially if you come from money. As I said, achieving success also does not mean you're good, plenty of people (usually white men) have blagged their way to the top over the years. |
I agree with a lot of what you say in principle but still think he is a talented politician. Tice is who you are describing really and not Farage imo.
Heavyweights of the last 50 years are Thatcher, Blair, Brown (leadership during financial crisis) and Farage. In those 4 you have the story of modern Britain. | | | |
| Suella Braverman the latest to defect to Reform. on 21:00 - Jan 26 with 421 views | Herbivore |
| Suella Braverman the latest to defect to Reform. on 20:13 - Jan 26 by jasondozzell |
I agree with a lot of what you say in principle but still think he is a talented politician. Tice is who you are describing really and not Farage imo.
Heavyweights of the last 50 years are Thatcher, Blair, Brown (leadership during financial crisis) and Farage. In those 4 you have the story of modern Britain. |
Think you massively overestimate his talents. | |
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| Suella Braverman the latest to defect to Reform. on 21:05 - Jan 26 with 408 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Suella Braverman the latest to defect to Reform. on 18:22 - Jan 26 by jasondozzell |
Any historian writing about the last 25 years plus will undoubtedly identify Farage as a hugely consequential figure.
A party he created 7 years ago is going to form the next government. You and me might not like what he's selling at all but you don't achieve that through a lack of political acumen.
And again, you can be a good campaigning politician but not necessarily a good leader. |
It’s not political acumen though - it’s snake oil salesmanism. It’s pure undiluted nationalist populism.
He is influential though unfortunately, I’d agree there. | |
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| Suella Braverman the latest to defect to Reform. on 08:36 - Jan 27 with 324 views | DJR |
Yes, that was absolutely shocking. |  | | |
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