| Surridge supposedly £5million 09:00 - Jan 29 with 10419 views | AljoBlue |
I know it is from FLW but they claim we are looking to sign Surridge for £5million. Fabrizio Romano claims Norwich are looking to sign Kasper Hogh from Bodo Glimt with a fresh bid of £6.94 million.
Now just think, if we had not spent £12 million on a squad player last window we could buy both of these forwards! [Post edited 29 Jan 9:00]
|  | | |  |
| Surridge supposedly £5million on 11:22 - Jan 30 with 1218 views | _CliveBaker_ |
| Surridge supposedly £5million on 11:05 - Jan 30 by itfcjoe |
20 PL appearances was 323 minutes
Sam Surridge 1 goal per 323 minutes in Premier League
Ivan Azon 1 goal per 278 minutes in Segunda Division
George Hirst 1 goal per 220 minutes in Premier League
Hirst did really well last year, and with the new contract, good pre season, number 9 shirt, it looked like it was the season he would really break out - but just looks bereft of confidence and that it isn't going to happen |
I don't think Surridge's PL stats are in any way meaningful when the sample size is so low and there are so many variables at play. 200 - 300 minutes might as well be 0 minutes.
Ultimately he hasn't been massively prolific in his career, but players develop at different speeds and a lot of circumstances play into it. Loan moves aren't easy, as a young lad packing up and heading off from B'mouth to Oldham or Swansea etc takes a lot. Its a tale as old as time, if players settle and feel at home somewhere they can demonstrate vastly different form, and he's been red hot in MLS. The most recent evidence in terms of his latter Forest career and MLS output suggests he could be a real asset, I really don't think there's any value in goals per game 6 years ago at whatever level.
I think the question as Lib says earlier in the thread is how easy a transition is it back from MLS to Championship, I don't know the answer to that. Agyemang at Derby seems to have made a decent fist of it, and he had no prior experience of the EFL.
He's a considered purchase at £5m+ and presumably big wages, but I would expect him to come in as our main #9 if we do this deal. |  | | |
| Surridge supposedly £5million on 12:00 - Jan 30 with 1069 views | Smoresy |
| Surridge supposedly £5million on 11:05 - Jan 30 by itfcjoe |
20 PL appearances was 323 minutes
Sam Surridge 1 goal per 323 minutes in Premier League
Ivan Azon 1 goal per 278 minutes in Segunda Division
George Hirst 1 goal per 220 minutes in Premier League
Hirst did really well last year, and with the new contract, good pre season, number 9 shirt, it looked like it was the season he would really break out - but just looks bereft of confidence and that it isn't going to happen |
Thank you for saving me some time this morning, and for Libero accepting the obvious logical flaws in his attempts to persuade. Healthy to be transparent.
It's also probably worth reflecting that Surridge was 23 years old when Forest picked him up. Earlier characterization of his time in England could lead someone to believe he left as a washed-up journeyman, rather than a player who found good Championship form at an age when Hirst had tasted 40-odd Championship games without yet finding the net.
For the class lol: https://theanalyst.com/article Analysis updated today, to the slight detriment of my comment yesterday as the MLS has dropped to 11th overall. The MLS is still measured to be far closer to Championship standard than the Championship is to the PL or Segunda Division, however, or to the other big four European leagues. And the MLS remains the best match for overall standard of the better teams in our league, when compared with every other global league.
I really hope Azón comes good too. I was concerned in the summer that he'd spent every second of his Como move glued to the bench. His best scoring season to date is 7 goals in the Segunda, which bears far closer resemblance to League One than to the Championship, and Serie A had evidently been much too great a jump midway through a season. But he also evidently impressed beyond his goals to be picked up by Como in the first place, and he's now 23 years old, the same age when Surridge's career took off. Hopefully our man finds the same goals in his boots and we may not need a new face up top. | | | |
| Surridge supposedly £5million on 12:43 - Jan 30 with 917 views | Libero |
| Surridge supposedly £5million on 12:00 - Jan 30 by Smoresy |
Thank you for saving me some time this morning, and for Libero accepting the obvious logical flaws in his attempts to persuade. Healthy to be transparent.
It's also probably worth reflecting that Surridge was 23 years old when Forest picked him up. Earlier characterization of his time in England could lead someone to believe he left as a washed-up journeyman, rather than a player who found good Championship form at an age when Hirst had tasted 40-odd Championship games without yet finding the net.
For the class lol: https://theanalyst.com/article Analysis updated today, to the slight detriment of my comment yesterday as the MLS has dropped to 11th overall. The MLS is still measured to be far closer to Championship standard than the Championship is to the PL or Segunda Division, however, or to the other big four European leagues. And the MLS remains the best match for overall standard of the better teams in our league, when compared with every other global league.
I really hope Azón comes good too. I was concerned in the summer that he'd spent every second of his Como move glued to the bench. His best scoring season to date is 7 goals in the Segunda, which bears far closer resemblance to League One than to the Championship, and Serie A had evidently been much too great a jump midway through a season. But he also evidently impressed beyond his goals to be picked up by Como in the first place, and he's now 23 years old, the same age when Surridge's career took off. Hopefully our man finds the same goals in his boots and we may not need a new face up top. |
Appreciate you sharing the link, I’ll give that a proper look over next couple days- but at a glance it doesn’t appear to show what I read as your insinuation.
I’ll review properly though- re: Azon eye-test- I’ve no problem in acknowledging potential flaws in my own POV, this is football where eye-test often plays as big-a-part as statistical analysis and objective fact and opinion are often muddied- I prefer to be transparent. |  | | |
| Surridge supposedly £5million on 12:54 - Jan 30 with 842 views | Libero |
| Surridge supposedly £5million on 11:22 - Jan 30 by _CliveBaker_ |
I don't think Surridge's PL stats are in any way meaningful when the sample size is so low and there are so many variables at play. 200 - 300 minutes might as well be 0 minutes.
Ultimately he hasn't been massively prolific in his career, but players develop at different speeds and a lot of circumstances play into it. Loan moves aren't easy, as a young lad packing up and heading off from B'mouth to Oldham or Swansea etc takes a lot. Its a tale as old as time, if players settle and feel at home somewhere they can demonstrate vastly different form, and he's been red hot in MLS. The most recent evidence in terms of his latter Forest career and MLS output suggests he could be a real asset, I really don't think there's any value in goals per game 6 years ago at whatever level.
I think the question as Lib says earlier in the thread is how easy a transition is it back from MLS to Championship, I don't know the answer to that. Agyemang at Derby seems to have made a decent fist of it, and he had no prior experience of the EFL.
He's a considered purchase at £5m+ and presumably big wages, but I would expect him to come in as our main #9 if we do this deal. |
This is it, mate- Surridge as our main number 9 gives me nightmares. Squad player? Sure- but he’s much-of-a-muchness to what we already have.
If we’re to make a purchase up top I want it to *clearly* improve upon what we have. | | | |
| Surridge supposedly £5million on 12:56 - Jan 30 with 832 views | Libero |
| Surridge supposedly £5million on 11:05 - Jan 30 by itfcjoe |
20 PL appearances was 323 minutes
Sam Surridge 1 goal per 323 minutes in Premier League
Ivan Azon 1 goal per 278 minutes in Segunda Division
George Hirst 1 goal per 220 minutes in Premier League
Hirst did really well last year, and with the new contract, good pre season, number 9 shirt, it looked like it was the season he would really break out - but just looks bereft of confidence and that it isn't going to happen |
Aye, I agree that it looked like Hirst might become *the* man but has simply been *one* of the men- we need someone who offers a significant step up in quality if we’re going to make additions to the forward line. | | | |
| Surridge supposedly £5million on 13:12 - Jan 30 with 748 views | _CliveBaker_ |
| Surridge supposedly £5million on 12:54 - Jan 30 by Libero |
This is it, mate- Surridge as our main number 9 gives me nightmares. Squad player? Sure- but he’s much-of-a-muchness to what we already have.
If we’re to make a purchase up top I want it to *clearly* improve upon what we have. |
I'm the same, doesn't strike me as a player that would bridge the big gap to Premier League if we were to get there, but we also need to get there first. Its a really difficult window to work in IMO for that reason, we're having to balance the needs over the next 4 months vs. potential needs beyond when we don't know what level we're going to be playing at. That makes it hard to know whether to invest now or keep our powder dry, and these investments aren't insignificant with 3-4 year contracts and big wages.
Oven ready PL players aren't likely to come right now, so anyone we sign is likely to have question marks over them if we're to go up. Mehmeti is probably in the same category. That intersection of the 'better than what we've got' and 'wants to join' venn diagram feels quite small. Perhaps we've come to the conclusion (arguably correctly) that we just need to do what we need to do to get there and beef up the Championship squad, then deal with that in the summer if we're successful.
Tough balance, but right now I think we're short. Azon has shown some promise of late but has his flaws and isn't very prolific. Hirst is workmanlike but he's not having the best season, and Akpom just hasn't got going at all. | | | |
| Surridge supposedly £5million on 13:26 - Jan 30 with 687 views | Smoresy |
| Surridge supposedly £5million on 12:43 - Jan 30 by Libero |
Appreciate you sharing the link, I’ll give that a proper look over next couple days- but at a glance it doesn’t appear to show what I read as your insinuation.
I’ll review properly though- re: Azon eye-test- I’ve no problem in acknowledging potential flaws in my own POV, this is football where eye-test often plays as big-a-part as statistical analysis and objective fact and opinion are often muddied- I prefer to be transparent. |
It was your earlier use of facts, "substantiating" or not really, which teased further replies out of me mind before the helpful admissions, including on your own eye test frequency re the league across the pond.
Agyemang is a good example of a striker who's come across this season. 16 league goals in his last 47 games in the MLS, 8 in his 25 at Derby.
Latte Lath scored 11 in his last 29 league games for Boro, 16 the season before. 7 goals in 30 since moving to the MLS.
There's more recent crossover than Bradley Wright-Phillips, which is quite the distant throwback now. Even moreso when you open up comparison to how players fared in other top flight European leagues, such as the Belgian and Dutch, which also opens up further comparison of league strength in turn through the European cups. Boro have made a couple of very astute signings from the MLS recently; not one we should be dismissive of imo tho other o's available. | | | |
| Surridge supposedly £5million on 13:29 - Jan 30 with 673 views | Libero |
| Surridge supposedly £5million on 13:12 - Jan 30 by _CliveBaker_ |
I'm the same, doesn't strike me as a player that would bridge the big gap to Premier League if we were to get there, but we also need to get there first. Its a really difficult window to work in IMO for that reason, we're having to balance the needs over the next 4 months vs. potential needs beyond when we don't know what level we're going to be playing at. That makes it hard to know whether to invest now or keep our powder dry, and these investments aren't insignificant with 3-4 year contracts and big wages.
Oven ready PL players aren't likely to come right now, so anyone we sign is likely to have question marks over them if we're to go up. Mehmeti is probably in the same category. That intersection of the 'better than what we've got' and 'wants to join' venn diagram feels quite small. Perhaps we've come to the conclusion (arguably correctly) that we just need to do what we need to do to get there and beef up the Championship squad, then deal with that in the summer if we're successful.
Tough balance, but right now I think we're short. Azon has shown some promise of late but has his flaws and isn't very prolific. Hirst is workmanlike but he's not having the best season, and Akpom just hasn't got going at all. |
I know a Kieffer Moore type signing has been mooted by man supporters, but that is what we need. I'm surprised Akpom's loan is continuing, i'm assuming we can't get out of it due to potential purchase option in it.
Mehmeti at least appears to have a glass celling that could see him become a Premier League player and more importantly, knows what McKenna's is about, as both were schooled at Spurs- I don't think McKenna was his youth team coach as has been suggested, but they were in the building at the same time at the same club and I believe had crossover. | | | |
Login to get fewer ads
| Surridge supposedly £5million on 13:36 - Jan 30 with 621 views | Smoresy |
| Surridge supposedly £5million on 13:12 - Jan 30 by _CliveBaker_ |
I'm the same, doesn't strike me as a player that would bridge the big gap to Premier League if we were to get there, but we also need to get there first. Its a really difficult window to work in IMO for that reason, we're having to balance the needs over the next 4 months vs. potential needs beyond when we don't know what level we're going to be playing at. That makes it hard to know whether to invest now or keep our powder dry, and these investments aren't insignificant with 3-4 year contracts and big wages.
Oven ready PL players aren't likely to come right now, so anyone we sign is likely to have question marks over them if we're to go up. Mehmeti is probably in the same category. That intersection of the 'better than what we've got' and 'wants to join' venn diagram feels quite small. Perhaps we've come to the conclusion (arguably correctly) that we just need to do what we need to do to get there and beef up the Championship squad, then deal with that in the summer if we're successful.
Tough balance, but right now I think we're short. Azon has shown some promise of late but has his flaws and isn't very prolific. Hirst is workmanlike but he's not having the best season, and Akpom just hasn't got going at all. |
Agree with all of this and I'd prefer we find a short-term solution to get us over the line. If Surridge or someone similar, in pedigree and contract connotations, I'd have my fingers crossed for another striker signing or two in the summer no doubt. | | | |
| Surridge supposedly £5million on 13:41 - Jan 30 with 577 views | Nutkins_Return |
| Surridge supposedly £5million on 09:07 - Jan 30 by Libero |
That’s a fair criticism and there are flaws to my logic, especially as I’m refusing to acknowledge Surrudge’s MLS record.
I’m able to acknowledge that I’m bias towards Azon, as I believe he’s been incredibly unlucky and is actually doing everything right. I’m impressed by him as a player and believe he will be a success and that when he gets a goal, they’ll start flowing (pure eye test, not data driven, as my other arguments are- so it’s absolutely a bias)
I’m also able to acknowledge I’m bias against Surridge, who I’ve seen a number of times and always wondered what on earth people see in him, which when coupled with his record in English football, leaves me with a very poor opinion of him as a player, despite him doing a Bradley Wright Phillips in MLS.
I’m not sure that any European player has ever been ‘improved’ to the extent that Surridge will have need to have, to be considered a good signing, by going to the MLS. [Post edited 30 Jan 9:14]
|
I agree with you on Azon. I like him and the goals will come.
I think surridge for what it's worth would be capable of hitting the ground running more so than Azon. If Azon can add goals he would be great and I really hope he can kick on.
Think you'd happily concede you hope you are wrong on Surridge and will give him a chance if we sign him. He's decent. I could see him being a Murphy in terms of his attributes and finding the goals later into his 20s.
The key thing is someone who can positively Impact us in getting over the line. In this difficult market for strikers of a certain type he would be decent.
I don't think the perfect fit is out there who would be affordable/willing to come.
One thing he isn't is Cr@p though. You's have to trust McKenna wouldn't sign that off. Akpom isn't either. It's just not worked out yet. Mentioned before it's like Thomas Asante for Cov. Was useless first season. | |
| |
| Surridge supposedly £5million on 13:42 - Jan 30 with 573 views | LankHenners |
| Surridge supposedly £5million on 13:12 - Jan 30 by _CliveBaker_ |
I'm the same, doesn't strike me as a player that would bridge the big gap to Premier League if we were to get there, but we also need to get there first. Its a really difficult window to work in IMO for that reason, we're having to balance the needs over the next 4 months vs. potential needs beyond when we don't know what level we're going to be playing at. That makes it hard to know whether to invest now or keep our powder dry, and these investments aren't insignificant with 3-4 year contracts and big wages.
Oven ready PL players aren't likely to come right now, so anyone we sign is likely to have question marks over them if we're to go up. Mehmeti is probably in the same category. That intersection of the 'better than what we've got' and 'wants to join' venn diagram feels quite small. Perhaps we've come to the conclusion (arguably correctly) that we just need to do what we need to do to get there and beef up the Championship squad, then deal with that in the summer if we're successful.
Tough balance, but right now I think we're short. Azon has shown some promise of late but has his flaws and isn't very prolific. Hirst is workmanlike but he's not having the best season, and Akpom just hasn't got going at all. |
There'll surely be some more availability at the eleventh hour when it becomes clear to some players on the fringes of Prem teams that they're not going to get much playing time staying put (or already know that but are waiting on their club to get their own reinforcements in first before they're allowed to go anywhere).
Problem is our maxed-out loan spots hamstring us there, so wonder if we'll try to either find a way to send Akpom back (difficult) or make Kipre permanent (will take some tough negotiation but more doable) to free up a place. |  |
| |
| Surridge supposedly £5million on 13:44 - Jan 30 with 554 views | StokieBlue |
| Surridge supposedly £5million on 13:42 - Jan 30 by LankHenners |
There'll surely be some more availability at the eleventh hour when it becomes clear to some players on the fringes of Prem teams that they're not going to get much playing time staying put (or already know that but are waiting on their club to get their own reinforcements in first before they're allowed to go anywhere).
Problem is our maxed-out loan spots hamstring us there, so wonder if we'll try to either find a way to send Akpom back (difficult) or make Kipre permanent (will take some tough negotiation but more doable) to free up a place. |
There is a 3.9m obligation to buy Kipre if we make it to the PL:
I think that Reims would be fine getting their money early and that's a fantastic price for him.
SB |  | | |
| Surridge supposedly £5million on 13:45 - Jan 30 with 547 views | Metal_Hacker |
| Surridge supposedly £5million on 13:44 - Jan 30 by StokieBlue |
There is a 3.9m obligation to buy Kipre if we make it to the PL:
I think that Reims would be fine getting their money early and that's a fantastic price for him.
SB |
I'd get it done without a doubt and surprised we haven't as yet |  |
| |
| Surridge supposedly £5million on 13:49 - Jan 30 with 518 views | Libero |
| Surridge supposedly £5million on 13:41 - Jan 30 by Nutkins_Return |
I agree with you on Azon. I like him and the goals will come.
I think surridge for what it's worth would be capable of hitting the ground running more so than Azon. If Azon can add goals he would be great and I really hope he can kick on.
Think you'd happily concede you hope you are wrong on Surridge and will give him a chance if we sign him. He's decent. I could see him being a Murphy in terms of his attributes and finding the goals later into his 20s.
The key thing is someone who can positively Impact us in getting over the line. In this difficult market for strikers of a certain type he would be decent.
I don't think the perfect fit is out there who would be affordable/willing to come.
One thing he isn't is Cr@p though. You's have to trust McKenna wouldn't sign that off. Akpom isn't either. It's just not worked out yet. Mentioned before it's like Thomas Asante for Cov. Was useless first season. |
Aye, I get behind every player that signs for Ipswich, regardless of my preconceptions.
I'm not sure McKenna would *really* want him, I suspect if he did there'd be other Championship clubs circling too, so maybe we will see him at Portman Road in other colours this season, who knows! | | | |
| Surridge supposedly £5million on 13:49 - Jan 30 with 513 views | LankHenners |
| Surridge supposedly £5million on 13:44 - Jan 30 by StokieBlue |
There is a 3.9m obligation to buy Kipre if we make it to the PL:
I think that Reims would be fine getting their money early and that's a fantastic price for him.
SB |
Yeah but they may well want more to sort it now and we'll want to put up some resistance to that.
Kipre himself may want to keep his options open for the summer as well.
Sure something can be done but it may make things quite busy on deadline day! | |
| |
| Surridge supposedly £5million on 13:51 - Jan 30 with 491 views | Exiled2Surrey |
| Surridge supposedly £5million on 13:12 - Jan 30 by _CliveBaker_ |
I'm the same, doesn't strike me as a player that would bridge the big gap to Premier League if we were to get there, but we also need to get there first. Its a really difficult window to work in IMO for that reason, we're having to balance the needs over the next 4 months vs. potential needs beyond when we don't know what level we're going to be playing at. That makes it hard to know whether to invest now or keep our powder dry, and these investments aren't insignificant with 3-4 year contracts and big wages.
Oven ready PL players aren't likely to come right now, so anyone we sign is likely to have question marks over them if we're to go up. Mehmeti is probably in the same category. That intersection of the 'better than what we've got' and 'wants to join' venn diagram feels quite small. Perhaps we've come to the conclusion (arguably correctly) that we just need to do what we need to do to get there and beef up the Championship squad, then deal with that in the summer if we're successful.
Tough balance, but right now I think we're short. Azon has shown some promise of late but has his flaws and isn't very prolific. Hirst is workmanlike but he's not having the best season, and Akpom just hasn't got going at all. |
Akpom is such an enigma and frustration. He is rated the third lowest of all our players by the fans (according to the squad data on here) - and TBH I dont think that reflects his contributions.
Having said that he has only been started up front twice, and only once in the league (Oxford) when he scored. Clearly he has come on in that position as a sub but do we really know what he can do in that position? Seemingly he has all the ingredients, he puts himself about, so it must just be familiarity with the position.
The expectation on the back of the transfer and his previous performances in the division was that he would be in double figures by now, but I cant remember that many players who have just rocked up to Portman Road and been amazing from day one in those forward positions, certainly under this manager (Hutch, Jaden, Clarke) | | | |
| Surridge supposedly £5million on 13:56 - Jan 30 with 453 views | StokieBlue |
| Surridge supposedly £5million on 13:49 - Jan 30 by LankHenners |
Yeah but they may well want more to sort it now and we'll want to put up some resistance to that.
Kipre himself may want to keep his options open for the summer as well.
Sure something can be done but it may make things quite busy on deadline day! |
Why do you think they would want more to sort it out now? There is a very good chance we will get promoted and there is an obligation at a set price, nobody would ever offer more given they have that agreement and taking cashflows early is usually a good thing.
Kipre doesn't have an options if we get promoted and he seems very happy here.
I honestly can't see any issues getting it done early at the price agreed on promotion. It's certainly a good option if we want to loan a striker but you're right that time is running out.
SB | | | |
| Surridge supposedly £5million on 14:01 - Jan 30 with 414 views | LankHenners |
| Surridge supposedly £5million on 13:56 - Jan 30 by StokieBlue |
Why do you think they would want more to sort it out now? There is a very good chance we will get promoted and there is an obligation at a set price, nobody would ever offer more given they have that agreement and taking cashflows early is usually a good thing.
Kipre doesn't have an options if we get promoted and he seems very happy here.
I honestly can't see any issues getting it done early at the price agreed on promotion. It's certainly a good option if we want to loan a striker but you're right that time is running out.
SB |
It's a fresh negotiation and his value has probably gone up.
I missed 'in the event we don't get promoted' off that 2nd point. | |
| |
| Surridge supposedly £5million on 14:04 - Jan 30 with 385 views | Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
| Surridge supposedly £5million on 13:12 - Jan 30 by _CliveBaker_ |
I'm the same, doesn't strike me as a player that would bridge the big gap to Premier League if we were to get there, but we also need to get there first. Its a really difficult window to work in IMO for that reason, we're having to balance the needs over the next 4 months vs. potential needs beyond when we don't know what level we're going to be playing at. That makes it hard to know whether to invest now or keep our powder dry, and these investments aren't insignificant with 3-4 year contracts and big wages.
Oven ready PL players aren't likely to come right now, so anyone we sign is likely to have question marks over them if we're to go up. Mehmeti is probably in the same category. That intersection of the 'better than what we've got' and 'wants to join' venn diagram feels quite small. Perhaps we've come to the conclusion (arguably correctly) that we just need to do what we need to do to get there and beef up the Championship squad, then deal with that in the summer if we're successful.
Tough balance, but right now I think we're short. Azon has shown some promise of late but has his flaws and isn't very prolific. Hirst is workmanlike but he's not having the best season, and Akpom just hasn't got going at all. |
Your first few sentences is why we should have signed McBurnie in the summer. Now we will have to massively overpay for someone that we’d just loan back to the champ. At least we could have had someone cheap that knows we’re the net is at that level for the entire season. |  |
| |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
