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Whatever the answer, I hope it gets resolved asap. The poor, poor parents of those deceased babies, Lucy's parents, and Lucy herself all need this whole affair done and dusted.
Lucy Letby. The doubt simply doesn't go away.... on 23:45 - Feb 2 by The_Romford_Blue
My take - people are simply in denial because she looks too normal to be a baby killing mass murderer and so have to find some other angle
Understandable, but this hospital has some absolutely awful stats on hygiene, etc during this period.
Whether she is guilty or not, it is imperative that those hygiene issues are addressed to make sure no other man, woman or child is a victim of something, frankly, medieval in nature.
A confession note was found in her house. You can argue about potential alternative causes of death all you want, but alongside the note, it’s irrefutable that she’s a murderer in my opinion.
“I am evil, I did this”. Her words. A remarkable coincidence if the deaths were all accidents unrelated to Letby
Lucy Letby. The doubt simply doesn't go away.... on 06:57 - Feb 3 by USA
A confession note was found in her house. You can argue about potential alternative causes of death all you want, but alongside the note, it’s irrefutable that she’s a murderer in my opinion.
“I am evil, I did this”. Her words. A remarkable coincidence if the deaths were all accidents unrelated to Letby
[Post edited 3 Feb 7:03]
Except it wasn't quite like that. Not a note, as such, or a coherent confession, but a collection of wild stream-of-consciousness jottings. Which also contained the phrase "I haven't done anything wrong".
Allegedly, she was told to write down all her feelings as a way of dealing with the stress. I had something similar many years ago when suffering mental health issues, keeping a notebook, with all sorts of mad things written in it.
Friend of mine is a hospital HCA and he severly doubts she could have done it.
Lucy Letby. The doubt simply doesn't go away.... on 09:05 - Feb 3 by Guthrum
Except it wasn't quite like that. Not a note, as such, or a coherent confession, but a collection of wild stream-of-consciousness jottings. Which also contained the phrase "I haven't done anything wrong".
Allegedly, she was told to write down all her feelings as a way of dealing with the stress. I had something similar many years ago when suffering mental health issues, keeping a notebook, with all sorts of mad things written in it.
Friend of mine is a hospital HCA and he severly doubts she could have done it.
Lucy Letby. The doubt simply doesn't go away.... on 23:52 - Feb 2 by Hugoagogo_Reborn
Understandable, but this hospital has some absolutely awful stats on hygiene, etc during this period.
Whether she is guilty or not, it is imperative that those hygiene issues are addressed to make sure no other man, woman or child is a victim of something, frankly, medieval in nature.
Almost like if they found “a person responsible” it would cover up for the hospital failings isn’t it?
Certainly seems to be split decision, a few doctors and healthcare professionals I know sit on the side of the fence of her not being guilty.
Lucy Letby. The doubt simply doesn't go away.... on 11:58 - Feb 3 by redrickstuhaart
Decision was made on the totality of the evidence heard over many days. How many doubters have actually done that?
“The totality of the evidence heard over many days” that was later totally discredited, by literally hundreds of medical experts - including a key witness who gave evidence for the prosecution at the trial, the self-appointed medical expert who after the trial changed his mind & admitted he now thinks he got it wrong And who btw had volunteered his ‘expertise’ to the police - no-one had actually sought to consult him.
It’s also a massive problem of the UK judicial system that expert witnesses who go against popular views and large establishments tend to get pilloried in court & have their reputations & careers wrecked (see the now discredited ‘shaken baby syndrome’ trials of decades ago); therefore most are now unwilling to appear as witnesses. At Letby’s trial, her defence team bafflingly didn’t call one who was apparently prepared to appear.
Lucy Letby. The doubt simply doesn't go away.... on 13:01 - Feb 3 by Ryorry
“The totality of the evidence heard over many days” that was later totally discredited, by literally hundreds of medical experts - including a key witness who gave evidence for the prosecution at the trial, the self-appointed medical expert who after the trial changed his mind & admitted he now thinks he got it wrong And who btw had volunteered his ‘expertise’ to the police - no-one had actually sought to consult him.
It’s also a massive problem of the UK judicial system that expert witnesses who go against popular views and large establishments tend to get pilloried in court & have their reputations & careers wrecked (see the now discredited ‘shaken baby syndrome’ trials of decades ago); therefore most are now unwilling to appear as witnesses. At Letby’s trial, her defence team bafflingly didn’t call one who was apparently prepared to appear.
[Post edited 3 Feb 13:15]
It wasn't discredited. This went to appeal and there was not enough to raise serious doubt. None of the people questioning this have sat and heard the evidence in full in any event. No expert witness is self appointed by the way.
Lucy Letby. The doubt simply doesn't go away.... on 13:12 - Feb 3 by redrickstuhaart
It wasn't discredited. This went to appeal and there was not enough to raise serious doubt. None of the people questioning this have sat and heard the evidence in full in any event. No expert witness is self appointed by the way.
Your second para really isn't real.
It was absolutely discredited by literally hundreds of medical experts who went through the trial with a fine toothcomb.
It was proven that the self-appointed medical expert was not approached by anyone in the judicial system - he himself rang the police to offer his ‘expertise’within hours of Letby being accused.
My 2nd para is absolutely sound. Not only did I experience it myself when the consultant anaesthetist who saved my life wasn’t prepared to go through a lengthy court case against British Gas & the local HSE because of what had happened to other medical experts reputations & careers in similar cases previously, but there’s a shedload of evidence out there saying the same, if I have time later I’ll search & post links.I
Or you can search previous threads on the case on here, this one’s just repeating much of what’s already been said in this one, iirc.
Lucy Letby. The doubt simply doesn't go away.... on 13:26 - Feb 3 by Ryorry
It was absolutely discredited by literally hundreds of medical experts who went through the trial with a fine toothcomb.
It was proven that the self-appointed medical expert was not approached by anyone in the judicial system - he himself rang the police to offer his ‘expertise’within hours of Letby being accused.
My 2nd para is absolutely sound. Not only did I experience it myself when the consultant anaesthetist who saved my life wasn’t prepared to go through a lengthy court case against British Gas & the local HSE because of what had happened to other medical experts reputations & careers in similar cases previously, but there’s a shedload of evidence out there saying the same, if I have time later I’ll search & post links.I
Or you can search previous threads on the case on here, this one’s just repeating much of what’s already been said in this one, iirc.
[Post edited 3 Feb 13:31]
So much wrong here.
Unfortunately people get their information from social media echo chambers and people like Nadine dorries!
Lucy Letby. The doubt simply doesn't go away.... on 13:34 - Feb 3 by redrickstuhaart
So much wrong here.
Unfortunately people get their information from social media echo chambers and people like Nadine dorries!
So much wrong with your posts - you’re the one burying your head in the sand. I just read what the actual medics and lawyers who are specialists in their fields have said & written about the case - and the majority do not agree with the verdict.
Lucy Letby. The doubt simply doesn't go away.... on 13:26 - Feb 3 by Ryorry
It was absolutely discredited by literally hundreds of medical experts who went through the trial with a fine toothcomb.
It was proven that the self-appointed medical expert was not approached by anyone in the judicial system - he himself rang the police to offer his ‘expertise’within hours of Letby being accused.
My 2nd para is absolutely sound. Not only did I experience it myself when the consultant anaesthetist who saved my life wasn’t prepared to go through a lengthy court case against British Gas & the local HSE because of what had happened to other medical experts reputations & careers in similar cases previously, but there’s a shedload of evidence out there saying the same, if I have time later I’ll search & post links.I
Or you can search previous threads on the case on here, this one’s just repeating much of what’s already been said in this one, iirc.
[Post edited 3 Feb 13:31]
There is an issue with expert witnesses / specialists who go against the system but the solution is to bring someone from a different country. This has happened in many Irish medical related court cases. There is also the questionable issue that , as you pointed out, that the defense did not call an allegedly willing expert witness. This would raise a red flag regarding their ability to weaken the prosecution. Clearly Betty's defence was weakened by her documented mental health issues. The people I feel most sorry for in this are the parents of the dead children.
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Lucy Letby. The doubt simply doesn't go away.... on 14:29 - Feb 3 with 450 views
Lucy Letby. The doubt simply doesn't go away.... on 13:40 - Feb 3 by Ryorry
So much wrong with your posts - you’re the one burying your head in the sand. I just read what the actual medics and lawyers who are specialists in their fields have said & written about the case - and the majority do not agree with the verdict.
Why is it the c of a didn't see these obvious widely accepted flaws? Perhaps it's not that simple...
Lucy Letby. The doubt simply doesn't go away.... on 14:29 - Feb 3 by redrickstuhaart
Why is it the c of a didn't see these obvious widely accepted flaws? Perhaps it's not that simple...
What the Court of Appeal found was there was not sufficient new evidence to overrule the evidence given by the expert witness at the original trial. That is not saying that there were not flaws in the original evidence or that the expert witnesses did not give misleading or false opinions as evidence, just that there was not enough new evidence to override the original decision.
You are the obsolete SRN4 to my Fairey Rotodyne....
Lucy Letby. The doubt simply doesn't go away.... on 14:01 - Feb 3 by eirannach_gorm
There is an issue with expert witnesses / specialists who go against the system but the solution is to bring someone from a different country. This has happened in many Irish medical related court cases. There is also the questionable issue that , as you pointed out, that the defense did not call an allegedly willing expert witness. This would raise a red flag regarding their ability to weaken the prosecution. Clearly Betty's defence was weakened by her documented mental health issues. The people I feel most sorry for in this are the parents of the dead children.
This is exactly what happened with Letby's new lawyer.
An international panel of experts have ripped the prosecution's expert evidence to pieces.
As said above, the so-called expert has changed his story from the testimony given in the trial.
There's no way the evidence supports murder convictions. The courts will eventually catch up with this.
(Edit: typo)
[Post edited 3 Feb 15:44]
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Lucy Letby. The doubt simply doesn't go away.... on 15:55 - Feb 3 with 253 views
Lucy Letby. The doubt simply doesn't go away.... on 15:43 - Feb 3 by Camul123
This is exactly what happened with Letby's new lawyer.
An international panel of experts have ripped the prosecution's expert evidence to pieces.
As said above, the so-called expert has changed his story from the testimony given in the trial.
There's no way the evidence supports murder convictions. The courts will eventually catch up with this.
(Edit: typo)
[Post edited 3 Feb 15:44]
I rarely message these days but felt I had to comment
The medical evidence has become the smoking gun for those who believe she's innocent and it's enabling LL supporters to make others completely forget about all of the other evidence that was also presented in court, including but not limited to statistical and behavioural
LL was not convicted on medical evidence alone
I would also add in contrast to Ryorry I know people who work in the NHS who are absolutely convinced of her guilt
And whilst I could quite conceivably have missed it I've seen no report that shows the 'majority' of medical experts believe her to be innocent
[Post edited 3 Feb 16:01]
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Lucy Letby. The doubt simply doesn't go away.... on 16:18 - Feb 3 with 190 views
Lucy Letby. The doubt simply doesn't go away.... on 15:55 - Feb 3 by ChiefXL
I rarely message these days but felt I had to comment
The medical evidence has become the smoking gun for those who believe she's innocent and it's enabling LL supporters to make others completely forget about all of the other evidence that was also presented in court, including but not limited to statistical and behavioural
LL was not convicted on medical evidence alone
I would also add in contrast to Ryorry I know people who work in the NHS who are absolutely convinced of her guilt
And whilst I could quite conceivably have missed it I've seen no report that shows the 'majority' of medical experts believe her to be innocent
[Post edited 3 Feb 16:01]
Are we going up this season and what are your top 5 cheeses
In the spirit of reconciliation and happiness at the end of the Banter Era (RIP) and as a result of promotion I have cleared out my ignore list. Look forwards to reading your posts!
Lucy Letby. The doubt simply doesn't go away.... on 15:55 - Feb 3 by ChiefXL
I rarely message these days but felt I had to comment
The medical evidence has become the smoking gun for those who believe she's innocent and it's enabling LL supporters to make others completely forget about all of the other evidence that was also presented in court, including but not limited to statistical and behavioural
LL was not convicted on medical evidence alone
I would also add in contrast to Ryorry I know people who work in the NHS who are absolutely convinced of her guilt
And whilst I could quite conceivably have missed it I've seen no report that shows the 'majority' of medical experts believe her to be innocent
Lucy Letby. The doubt simply doesn't go away.... on 15:55 - Feb 3 by ChiefXL
I rarely message these days but felt I had to comment
The medical evidence has become the smoking gun for those who believe she's innocent and it's enabling LL supporters to make others completely forget about all of the other evidence that was also presented in court, including but not limited to statistical and behavioural
LL was not convicted on medical evidence alone
I would also add in contrast to Ryorry I know people who work in the NHS who are absolutely convinced of her guilt
And whilst I could quite conceivably have missed it I've seen no report that shows the 'majority' of medical experts believe her to be innocent
[Post edited 3 Feb 16:01]
The statistical and behavioural evidence has also been ripped to shreds by experts in those fields. Other similar (same symptoms) infant deaths have been attributed to other reasons, ie biological infections, in at least one hospital abroad (Holland iirc).
There were numerous well documented failures in hygiene systems at the C o Chester hospital, including faecal backflow into the handwash basins on a regular basis.
None of us know whether LL is guilty or not, but on all the evidence available, her convictions are not safe, and at the very minimum, her new team’s appeal needs to be heard.
And yes, I do feel for the parents of the babies. But they deserve *sound* justice too.
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