| Palestine Action 18:24 - Feb 4 with 1413 views | DJR |
https://www.theguardian.com/uk
"Palestine Action activists cleared of aggravated burglary at Israeli defence firm site
None of the six activists were convicted of any offence over break-in at Elbit Systems factory near Bristol in 2024"
A couple of observations.
1. No wonder they want to get rid of jury trials.
2. Defend Our Juries said the verdicts were “a huge blow to government ministers” who had “tried to portray Palestine Action as a violent group to justify banning it under badly drafted terrorism legislation”. Amnesty International also said it showed how disproportionate the proscription decision was. [Post edited 4 Feb 18:25]
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| Palestine Action on 18:29 - Feb 4 with 1111 views | Zx1988 |
The judge obviously didn't direct them hard enough.
Obviously we don't know the reasoning for the jury's decisions, but it might seem to suggest that they were somewhat sympathetic to the cause?
On a similar note, do we know if any of the arrests for support of Palestine Action have ever ended up before a jury? I'd be very interested to see how things pan out in those circumstances. |  |
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| Palestine Action on 19:30 - Feb 4 with 1002 views | earlsgreenblue |
Watching the video of the police woman being struck & suffering a spine fracture as was reported & all the damage caused, whatever & whoever the business was owned by, surely the English laws cannot condone this & allow a jury to let these people off with no consequences………..sending a signal to others that this is acceptable? | | | |
| Palestine Action on 21:37 - Feb 4 with 900 views | DJR |
| Palestine Action on 19:30 - Feb 4 by earlsgreenblue |
Watching the video of the police woman being struck & suffering a spine fracture as was reported & all the damage caused, whatever & whoever the business was owned by, surely the English laws cannot condone this & allow a jury to let these people off with no consequences………..sending a signal to others that this is acceptable? |
So you support the proposed abolition of jury trials?  | | | |
| Palestine Action on 21:38 - Feb 4 with 894 views | thebooks |
| Palestine Action on 21:37 - Feb 4 by DJR |
So you support the proposed abolition of jury trials? |
Only when they disagree with the verdict :-) |  | | |
| Palestine Action on 22:14 - Feb 4 with 816 views | Pendejo |
| Palestine Action on 21:37 - Feb 4 by DJR |
So you support the proposed abolition of jury trials? |
As it happens I do, but only where specialist knowledge required, principally complex fraud cases and anything else where "the man on the Clapham" can not be expected to understand
Whereas that photo alone is terrifying, am yet to read the article, so maybe it was "self defence".... |  |
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| Palestine Action on 22:29 - Feb 4 with 771 views | Zx1988 |
Interesting to read in the article that the defence KC reminded the jury of their absolute right to acquit with, seemingly, no adverse comment from the judge.
A far cry from the case I flagged up the other week, where the judge all but threatened the jury with criminal prosecution if they so much as considered a conscience-based verdict. | |
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| Palestine Action on 23:40 - Feb 4 with 695 views | bournemouthblue |
| Palestine Action on 19:30 - Feb 4 by earlsgreenblue |
Watching the video of the police woman being struck & suffering a spine fracture as was reported & all the damage caused, whatever & whoever the business was owned by, surely the English laws cannot condone this & allow a jury to let these people off with no consequences………..sending a signal to others that this is acceptable? |
I can't get my head around how they have got off these charges, who the feck is their lawyer? |  |
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| Palestine Action on 07:45 - Feb 5 with 535 views | thebooks |
| Palestine Action on 21:38 - Feb 4 by thebooks |
Only when they disagree with the verdict :-) |
Or maybe we should conduct the trial via social media or football message boards, presenting evidence as a YouTube embed? | | | |
| Palestine Action on 07:46 - Feb 5 with 532 views | thebooks |
| Palestine Action on 07:41 - Feb 5 by ashtonscoffeecup |
could you just imagine the length of the prison sentence (which would be absolutely justified and correct) if this gang had been acting in support of something British/English
This country is an utter disgrace |
Don’t be a twät. | | | |
| Palestine Action on 07:50 - Feb 5 with 506 views | Benters |
| Palestine Action on 07:41 - Feb 5 by ashtonscoffeecup |
could you just imagine the length of the prison sentence (which would be absolutely justified and correct) if this gang had been acting in support of something British/English
This country is an utter disgrace |
It is at the moment and that’s why we need a change. |  |
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| Palestine Action on 07:59 - Feb 5 with 486 views | Benters |
| Palestine Action on 07:46 - Feb 5 by thebooks |
Don’t be a twät. |
Calling him that won’t change anything. | |
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| Palestine Action on 08:11 - Feb 5 with 443 views | MattinLondon |
| Palestine Action on 07:41 - Feb 5 by ashtonscoffeecup |
could you just imagine the length of the prison sentence (which would be absolutely justified and correct) if this gang had been acting in support of something British/English
This country is an utter disgrace |
In support of something British/ English.
What’ve so do you mean by that? Can you provide a couple of examples? |  | | |
| Palestine Action on 08:15 - Feb 5 with 441 views | MattinLondon |
| Palestine Action on 22:14 - Feb 4 by Pendejo |
As it happens I do, but only where specialist knowledge required, principally complex fraud cases and anything else where "the man on the Clapham" can not be expected to understand
Whereas that photo alone is terrifying, am yet to read the article, so maybe it was "self defence".... |
I agree with your first paragraph- how the hell layman are supposed to understand highly technical details in a trial which can last weeks/months is beyond me.
I would assign specialist juries where in the cases of highly complex matters the jury will be made up of impartial members who can understand the complexities of such detail. | | | |
| Palestine Action on 08:18 - Feb 5 with 425 views | MattinLondon |
| Palestine Action on 07:50 - Feb 5 by Benters |
It is at the moment and that’s why we need a change. |
But the judiciary etc should be independent of politics, be it local or National, so ‘change’ won’t actually change anything. | | | |
| Palestine Action on 08:28 - Feb 5 with 392 views | vapour_trail |
| Palestine Action on 08:18 - Feb 5 by MattinLondon |
But the judiciary etc should be independent of politics, be it local or National, so ‘change’ won’t actually change anything. |
Total waste of time and effort, Matt. |  |
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| Palestine Action on 08:45 - Feb 5 with 343 views | Steve_M |
There are a number of points here:
1. The move to restrict jury trials is wrong in principle but wouldn't have applied in this case due to the seriousness of the charges.
2. The decision to proscribe Palestine Action is also wrong but, again, was not a factor in the charges brought here.
3. That juries will not reach verdicts in some cases is not a reason to abolish or restrict jury trials.
4. There will almost certainly be a retrial on some of these charges given the seriousness of the offences.
5. It is foolish for 'Defend our juries' and many other instinctive supporters of Palestinian rights and statehood to assume that Palestine Action are a bunch of nice, innocent activists. |  |
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| Palestine Action on 09:08 - Feb 5 with 284 views | ashtonscoffeecup |
| Palestine Action on 07:46 - Feb 5 by thebooks |
Don’t be a twät. |
hitting someone with a sledge hammer for any cause is tw@t behaviour | | | |
| Palestine Action on 09:12 - Feb 5 with 275 views | ashtonscoffeecup |
| Palestine Action on 08:11 - Feb 5 by MattinLondon |
In support of something British/ English.
What’ve so do you mean by that? Can you provide a couple of examples? |
fish and chip action?
sunday roast action?
not everything needs a hidden message. in this case someone has hit and broken someone's back and not been sent to prison. i wont accept fighting for a cause in far away lands is enough reason to get them off that charge. its insane | | | |
| Palestine Action on 09:13 - Feb 5 with 275 views | DJR |
| Palestine Action on 08:45 - Feb 5 by Steve_M |
There are a number of points here:
1. The move to restrict jury trials is wrong in principle but wouldn't have applied in this case due to the seriousness of the charges.
2. The decision to proscribe Palestine Action is also wrong but, again, was not a factor in the charges brought here.
3. That juries will not reach verdicts in some cases is not a reason to abolish or restrict jury trials.
4. There will almost certainly be a retrial on some of these charges given the seriousness of the offences.
5. It is foolish for 'Defend our juries' and many other instinctive supporters of Palestinian rights and statehood to assume that Palestine Action are a bunch of nice, innocent activists. |
What you say in point 1 is correct but maybe it is the bringing of such serious charges (with possible life imprisonment) which makes it harder to convince a jury, and maybe the chances of conviction would have greater with lesser charges.
Having said that, had lesser charges been brought it would have severely weakened the case for proscribing Palestine Action.
And of course, if jury trials are abolished for crimes with a term of imprisonment of less than five years, what's to stop charges being brought in future in all sorts of cases to ensure there is no jury?
As regards your last point, Defend Our Juries clearly has a vested interest, but it is not just pro-Palestinian organisations which have opposed the proscription of Palestine Action.
https://www.amnesty.org.uk/lat
https://www.counselmagazine.co
Of course, people might say that people like this are just leftists or lefty lawyers but with the creeping crackdown on protest, I think it is right in a liberal democracy to be concerned. [Post edited 5 Feb 9:18]
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| Palestine Action on 09:28 - Feb 5 with 250 views | NthQldITFC |
| Palestine Action on 22:14 - Feb 4 by Pendejo |
As it happens I do, but only where specialist knowledge required, principally complex fraud cases and anything else where "the man on the Clapham" can not be expected to understand
Whereas that photo alone is terrifying, am yet to read the article, so maybe it was "self defence".... |
There's a bit about missing CCTV footage in the article which always screams evidence tampering to me - it's almost certainly stupid to pretend (or pretend to accept) that 'missing CCTV footage' means anything other than evidence tampering.
Having said that it's clear that they've got away with various serious offences here as far as the law is concerned.
But then it's also clear that Israel's actions have amounted to war crimes and
ethnic cleansing over a sustained period.
And it's also clear that the British government have let us down in not proscribing the supply of materiel to a country actively carrying out war crimes and ethnic cleansing.
Which of those things are more 'wrong'?
Which of those things should be addressed? |  |
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| Palestine Action on 09:30 - Feb 5 with 250 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Palestine Action on 09:13 - Feb 5 by DJR |
What you say in point 1 is correct but maybe it is the bringing of such serious charges (with possible life imprisonment) which makes it harder to convince a jury, and maybe the chances of conviction would have greater with lesser charges.
Having said that, had lesser charges been brought it would have severely weakened the case for proscribing Palestine Action.
And of course, if jury trials are abolished for crimes with a term of imprisonment of less than five years, what's to stop charges being brought in future in all sorts of cases to ensure there is no jury?
As regards your last point, Defend Our Juries clearly has a vested interest, but it is not just pro-Palestinian organisations which have opposed the proscription of Palestine Action.
https://www.amnesty.org.uk/lat
https://www.counselmagazine.co
Of course, people might say that people like this are just leftists or lefty lawyers but with the creeping crackdown on protest, I think it is right in a liberal democracy to be concerned. [Post edited 5 Feb 9:18]
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Some people on here voted for this man to be Prime Minister.
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| Here has is on 09:35 - Feb 5 with 234 views | Benters |
| Palestine Action on 08:28 - Feb 5 by vapour_trail |
Total waste of time and effort, Matt. |
Good Morning VT. | |
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