| Covid vaccine harm 06:24 - Feb 18 with 3150 views | gtsb1966 |
22,000 claims yet only a 1% pay out but at a cost of £50m to the tax payer. Covid, the disease that keeps on giving, for some.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/art |  | | |  |
| Covid vaccine harm on 07:19 - Feb 18 with 1976 views | Swansea_Blue |
lol - what’s the point? It’s ridiculous that redactions are allowed to this level in public money contracts. All rates should be published.
Anyhow, I’d be checking links between NHS bosses, ministers at the time and the provider. I doubt a gravy train was set up by accident.
As for the vaccines, all that chest beating about the Oxford University/AstraZeneca vaccine will ring hollow for some families. We have to remember that even this vaccine was overwhelmingly positive and saved countless lives, but it’s possible longer trials may have caught the issue. Although what were scientists and the NHS to do in such dire circumstances that do their best to react quickly.
There’s a recent article here that outlines what they think was the issue with the AstraZenica vaccines- https://www.theatlantic.com/sc (available without paywall for a limited number of free articles per month). |  |
| |
| Covid vaccine harm on 08:03 - Feb 18 with 1881 views | StokieBlue |
| Covid vaccine harm on 07:19 - Feb 18 by Swansea_Blue |
lol - what’s the point? It’s ridiculous that redactions are allowed to this level in public money contracts. All rates should be published.
Anyhow, I’d be checking links between NHS bosses, ministers at the time and the provider. I doubt a gravy train was set up by accident.
As for the vaccines, all that chest beating about the Oxford University/AstraZeneca vaccine will ring hollow for some families. We have to remember that even this vaccine was overwhelmingly positive and saved countless lives, but it’s possible longer trials may have caught the issue. Although what were scientists and the NHS to do in such dire circumstances that do their best to react quickly.
There’s a recent article here that outlines what they think was the issue with the AstraZenica vaccines- https://www.theatlantic.com/sc (available without paywall for a limited number of free articles per month). |
"In the United Kingdom, where almost 50 million doses of the AstraZeneca shot were given, 455 cases occurred; 81 people died."
Given a percentage chance of 0.00091% of a case occurring (0.000162% of death) per dose which is approximately the same level as being hit by lightning within the current year, it would have been almost impossible to catch any clotting issues even with longer trials. The risk is just so small and the specific factor is the genetics of the individual which wouldn't be known so it would be impossible to focus the test.
It's not good that people have suffered from this specific vaccine and hopefully they and their families will be compensated but as you say, it was overwhelmingly positive for the majority.
Also worth nothing that this wasn't such an issue with the mRNA vaccines and this long-term French study shows:
https://jamanetwork.com/journa
SB |  | | |
| Covid vaccine harm on 09:36 - Feb 18 with 1715 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Covid vaccine harm on 08:03 - Feb 18 by StokieBlue |
"In the United Kingdom, where almost 50 million doses of the AstraZeneca shot were given, 455 cases occurred; 81 people died."
Given a percentage chance of 0.00091% of a case occurring (0.000162% of death) per dose which is approximately the same level as being hit by lightning within the current year, it would have been almost impossible to catch any clotting issues even with longer trials. The risk is just so small and the specific factor is the genetics of the individual which wouldn't be known so it would be impossible to focus the test.
It's not good that people have suffered from this specific vaccine and hopefully they and their families will be compensated but as you say, it was overwhelmingly positive for the majority.
Also worth nothing that this wasn't such an issue with the mRNA vaccines and this long-term French study shows:
https://jamanetwork.com/journa
SB |
Yeah, maybe we needed the sheer volume of them in order to find the very low probability of harm. They’d have needed two very large scale phase 3 trials of 50,000 each to possibly show up just 1 case at those probability levels. Not likely was it, so maybe I’m unfair in that assessment. As I said, what were they supposed to do? They had to act quickly and roll things out and that saved millions of lives globally.
And it sounds like the follow-up work has provided more insights that will make future vaccines even safer. | |
| |
| Covid vaccine harm on 10:59 - Feb 18 with 1584 views | darkhorse28 |
| Covid vaccine harm on 07:19 - Feb 18 by Swansea_Blue |
lol - what’s the point? It’s ridiculous that redactions are allowed to this level in public money contracts. All rates should be published.
Anyhow, I’d be checking links between NHS bosses, ministers at the time and the provider. I doubt a gravy train was set up by accident.
As for the vaccines, all that chest beating about the Oxford University/AstraZeneca vaccine will ring hollow for some families. We have to remember that even this vaccine was overwhelmingly positive and saved countless lives, but it’s possible longer trials may have caught the issue. Although what were scientists and the NHS to do in such dire circumstances that do their best to react quickly.
There’s a recent article here that outlines what they think was the issue with the AstraZenica vaccines- https://www.theatlantic.com/sc (available without paywall for a limited number of free articles per month). |
They were to do what the job of government and media is to do. Not to panic. Reduce issues through the prism of group think and echo chambers, and to have more open and honest discussions.
It quickly became and still is about vaccine efficacy overhaul, rather than a specific set of vaccines in this situation, which was a unique set of circumstances.
Yes the saved lives. But at what long term costs. Healthy people are suffering and in Scotland we’ve run covert heart checks of random samples of men, with zero discussions on why (entirely because of Covid vaccine concerns).
The amount of long term implications remains to be seen, but it certainly isn’t good…, the lack of open discussion, and treating people like village idiots due to fears of conflation to all vaccines is terrifying, it’s the media and state at its worst, putting health behind careers and agreed narrative.
The consequences are huge, and I suspect we’ll never get the true story.
Just look at the ‘follow the science’ John Hopkins who’s research we used did a meta analysis, and it destroyed the actions of our media and politicians after the first lockdown…, obviously hindsight is wonderful, but we followed the science, right up until it didn’t agree with media and politicians, then we ignored it entirely.
The same research. But the definitive end. It said our politicians and media got it badly wrong, no lives saved (statistically insignificant) due to lockdowns (not vaccines).
There’s an agreed narrative.
The heart conditions. Blood clotting. Strokes.., the numbers and increases since vaccination are terryfying.
We’ll never publish the causality, I doubt we’ll ever do the expanded research required.
ALL the funding comes from those parties that can’t afford it to ever happen.
So yes it was complicated and difficult.
But no. It’s not politicians and media’s jobs to put our health behind their careers. And the profits and sustainability of our pharmaceutical industry.
It was their job to protect and inform.
I worked for the Scottish Ambulance service, Covid testing, and it was heartbreaking…., but it’s worse watching the complete lack of scrutiny and frankly the what is a cover up that in many decades time I suspect we will be talking about.
I see research data (third hand) though a close friends wife who works for a drug research company…., she’s very pro vaccine obviously .., she had zero covid vaccines and the data in Canada and Scotland she has seen is horrific and can never get behind small samples, because it’s so bad.
She’s never seen results not get funding for bigger sample sizes, when the conflation of problems to those vaccinated is so strong.
She has now…, I think sadly it is what it is. A huge cover up.
And was it worth the two generational fertility compromise, time will tell, but the blood clotting is real, the heart issues are real, the numbers are staggering and it’s criminal, not that we made those decisions…, most people can empathise with the circumstances, and difficulty…, but the cover up and lack of integrity NOW and since.
I had 3 vaccines…, it was made a condition of my job, for NHS Scotland.
What do you think would happen if I’ve been forced as a very fit and healthy person to take 3 vaccines, that have placed my long term health in jeopardy.
Multiply that by billions across the globe, add in a risk of people losing faith in vaccines and you have you answer.
So no. I don’t think it’s ok politicians care more about money and big business, and their careers than our health!!
It’s woeful. Obviously hindsight but we should have educated fit and healthy people they not being vaccinated was an option.
Too difficult message to sell though wasn’t it. So panic it is .., and (not) deal with the consequences later.
Maybe all the heart issues in vaccinated populations are just a big old coincidence .., we did eat a lot of snacks. Sake. There is no mitigation for how we’ve responded to the failures, more panic and self interest.
Obviously not a party political point, it’s all politicians, all media, and nobody can still speak out without been drown out as anti vaccine …, that dogma is incredibly unhealthy …, when genuine discourse is reduced to dogma and tribal nonsense.
Vaccines are great. Not all vaccines are great. If only we couod do complexity, nuance, discourse as a society,, millions of people wouldn’t now be dropping dead of something with a higher mortality than Covid! .., the truth will out.
But it will be decades. Nobody wants that smoke. Even we don’t want to know if we are honest .., I’m sure you had multiple ones too.
Imagine the cost. The truth wouldn’t bankrupt corporations .., it could bankrupt nations, I’m guessing many NHS employees were told it was a vaccination or their job! .., not great is it. Plus th other billions would have a case their governments coerced them.
So we did have choices. Not panicking being the best…, wouldn’t be so bad if most of the world didn’t follow the singular narrative.
But some country’s have lower vaccination rates .., so you can research heart conditions and increased general mortality pre and post vaccinations.
I wouldn’t. It’s genuinely depressing. And research to prove causality, isn’t coming, very predictable. So we didn’t get it right, nobody did except maybe Sweden and a few others.
Time and light (eventually) will reveal all, hopefully this who continue to lose loved ones, will eventually get support.., lot of people more interested in their ego and validating their pro vaccination narrative than genuine empathy to those dying .., that’s not a functional society.
I don’t care either way. I want the truth. Not ego and self interest. |  | | |
| Covid vaccine harm on 11:08 - Feb 18 with 1562 views | NthQldITFC |
| Covid vaccine harm on 10:59 - Feb 18 by darkhorse28 |
They were to do what the job of government and media is to do. Not to panic. Reduce issues through the prism of group think and echo chambers, and to have more open and honest discussions.
It quickly became and still is about vaccine efficacy overhaul, rather than a specific set of vaccines in this situation, which was a unique set of circumstances.
Yes the saved lives. But at what long term costs. Healthy people are suffering and in Scotland we’ve run covert heart checks of random samples of men, with zero discussions on why (entirely because of Covid vaccine concerns).
The amount of long term implications remains to be seen, but it certainly isn’t good…, the lack of open discussion, and treating people like village idiots due to fears of conflation to all vaccines is terrifying, it’s the media and state at its worst, putting health behind careers and agreed narrative.
The consequences are huge, and I suspect we’ll never get the true story.
Just look at the ‘follow the science’ John Hopkins who’s research we used did a meta analysis, and it destroyed the actions of our media and politicians after the first lockdown…, obviously hindsight is wonderful, but we followed the science, right up until it didn’t agree with media and politicians, then we ignored it entirely.
The same research. But the definitive end. It said our politicians and media got it badly wrong, no lives saved (statistically insignificant) due to lockdowns (not vaccines).
There’s an agreed narrative.
The heart conditions. Blood clotting. Strokes.., the numbers and increases since vaccination are terryfying.
We’ll never publish the causality, I doubt we’ll ever do the expanded research required.
ALL the funding comes from those parties that can’t afford it to ever happen.
So yes it was complicated and difficult.
But no. It’s not politicians and media’s jobs to put our health behind their careers. And the profits and sustainability of our pharmaceutical industry.
It was their job to protect and inform.
I worked for the Scottish Ambulance service, Covid testing, and it was heartbreaking…., but it’s worse watching the complete lack of scrutiny and frankly the what is a cover up that in many decades time I suspect we will be talking about.
I see research data (third hand) though a close friends wife who works for a drug research company…., she’s very pro vaccine obviously .., she had zero covid vaccines and the data in Canada and Scotland she has seen is horrific and can never get behind small samples, because it’s so bad.
She’s never seen results not get funding for bigger sample sizes, when the conflation of problems to those vaccinated is so strong.
She has now…, I think sadly it is what it is. A huge cover up.
And was it worth the two generational fertility compromise, time will tell, but the blood clotting is real, the heart issues are real, the numbers are staggering and it’s criminal, not that we made those decisions…, most people can empathise with the circumstances, and difficulty…, but the cover up and lack of integrity NOW and since.
I had 3 vaccines…, it was made a condition of my job, for NHS Scotland.
What do you think would happen if I’ve been forced as a very fit and healthy person to take 3 vaccines, that have placed my long term health in jeopardy.
Multiply that by billions across the globe, add in a risk of people losing faith in vaccines and you have you answer.
So no. I don’t think it’s ok politicians care more about money and big business, and their careers than our health!!
It’s woeful. Obviously hindsight but we should have educated fit and healthy people they not being vaccinated was an option.
Too difficult message to sell though wasn’t it. So panic it is .., and (not) deal with the consequences later.
Maybe all the heart issues in vaccinated populations are just a big old coincidence .., we did eat a lot of snacks. Sake. There is no mitigation for how we’ve responded to the failures, more panic and self interest.
Obviously not a party political point, it’s all politicians, all media, and nobody can still speak out without been drown out as anti vaccine …, that dogma is incredibly unhealthy …, when genuine discourse is reduced to dogma and tribal nonsense.
Vaccines are great. Not all vaccines are great. If only we couod do complexity, nuance, discourse as a society,, millions of people wouldn’t now be dropping dead of something with a higher mortality than Covid! .., the truth will out.
But it will be decades. Nobody wants that smoke. Even we don’t want to know if we are honest .., I’m sure you had multiple ones too.
Imagine the cost. The truth wouldn’t bankrupt corporations .., it could bankrupt nations, I’m guessing many NHS employees were told it was a vaccination or their job! .., not great is it. Plus th other billions would have a case their governments coerced them.
So we did have choices. Not panicking being the best…, wouldn’t be so bad if most of the world didn’t follow the singular narrative.
But some country’s have lower vaccination rates .., so you can research heart conditions and increased general mortality pre and post vaccinations.
I wouldn’t. It’s genuinely depressing. And research to prove causality, isn’t coming, very predictable. So we didn’t get it right, nobody did except maybe Sweden and a few others.
Time and light (eventually) will reveal all, hopefully this who continue to lose loved ones, will eventually get support.., lot of people more interested in their ego and validating their pro vaccination narrative than genuine empathy to those dying .., that’s not a functional society.
I don’t care either way. I want the truth. Not ego and self interest. |
It's really hard (for me anyway) to read all of that and understand what you're getting at, and on what basis you're getting at it.
You obviously feel strongly about it and have put a lot into this post, but I wonder if you'd have the chance to summarise it and lay out point by point what if is you're saying and what sources of data you have used to come to those conclusions? |  |
| |
| Covid vaccine harm on 11:08 - Feb 18 with 1553 views | Rozz |
| Covid vaccine harm on 11:08 - Feb 18 by NthQldITFC |
It's really hard (for me anyway) to read all of that and understand what you're getting at, and on what basis you're getting at it.
You obviously feel strongly about it and have put a lot into this post, but I wonder if you'd have the chance to summarise it and lay out point by point what if is you're saying and what sources of data you have used to come to those conclusions? |
Yep |  | | |
| Covid vaccine harm on 11:12 - Feb 18 with 1529 views | StokieBlue |
| Covid vaccine harm on 10:59 - Feb 18 by darkhorse28 |
They were to do what the job of government and media is to do. Not to panic. Reduce issues through the prism of group think and echo chambers, and to have more open and honest discussions.
It quickly became and still is about vaccine efficacy overhaul, rather than a specific set of vaccines in this situation, which was a unique set of circumstances.
Yes the saved lives. But at what long term costs. Healthy people are suffering and in Scotland we’ve run covert heart checks of random samples of men, with zero discussions on why (entirely because of Covid vaccine concerns).
The amount of long term implications remains to be seen, but it certainly isn’t good…, the lack of open discussion, and treating people like village idiots due to fears of conflation to all vaccines is terrifying, it’s the media and state at its worst, putting health behind careers and agreed narrative.
The consequences are huge, and I suspect we’ll never get the true story.
Just look at the ‘follow the science’ John Hopkins who’s research we used did a meta analysis, and it destroyed the actions of our media and politicians after the first lockdown…, obviously hindsight is wonderful, but we followed the science, right up until it didn’t agree with media and politicians, then we ignored it entirely.
The same research. But the definitive end. It said our politicians and media got it badly wrong, no lives saved (statistically insignificant) due to lockdowns (not vaccines).
There’s an agreed narrative.
The heart conditions. Blood clotting. Strokes.., the numbers and increases since vaccination are terryfying.
We’ll never publish the causality, I doubt we’ll ever do the expanded research required.
ALL the funding comes from those parties that can’t afford it to ever happen.
So yes it was complicated and difficult.
But no. It’s not politicians and media’s jobs to put our health behind their careers. And the profits and sustainability of our pharmaceutical industry.
It was their job to protect and inform.
I worked for the Scottish Ambulance service, Covid testing, and it was heartbreaking…., but it’s worse watching the complete lack of scrutiny and frankly the what is a cover up that in many decades time I suspect we will be talking about.
I see research data (third hand) though a close friends wife who works for a drug research company…., she’s very pro vaccine obviously .., she had zero covid vaccines and the data in Canada and Scotland she has seen is horrific and can never get behind small samples, because it’s so bad.
She’s never seen results not get funding for bigger sample sizes, when the conflation of problems to those vaccinated is so strong.
She has now…, I think sadly it is what it is. A huge cover up.
And was it worth the two generational fertility compromise, time will tell, but the blood clotting is real, the heart issues are real, the numbers are staggering and it’s criminal, not that we made those decisions…, most people can empathise with the circumstances, and difficulty…, but the cover up and lack of integrity NOW and since.
I had 3 vaccines…, it was made a condition of my job, for NHS Scotland.
What do you think would happen if I’ve been forced as a very fit and healthy person to take 3 vaccines, that have placed my long term health in jeopardy.
Multiply that by billions across the globe, add in a risk of people losing faith in vaccines and you have you answer.
So no. I don’t think it’s ok politicians care more about money and big business, and their careers than our health!!
It’s woeful. Obviously hindsight but we should have educated fit and healthy people they not being vaccinated was an option.
Too difficult message to sell though wasn’t it. So panic it is .., and (not) deal with the consequences later.
Maybe all the heart issues in vaccinated populations are just a big old coincidence .., we did eat a lot of snacks. Sake. There is no mitigation for how we’ve responded to the failures, more panic and self interest.
Obviously not a party political point, it’s all politicians, all media, and nobody can still speak out without been drown out as anti vaccine …, that dogma is incredibly unhealthy …, when genuine discourse is reduced to dogma and tribal nonsense.
Vaccines are great. Not all vaccines are great. If only we couod do complexity, nuance, discourse as a society,, millions of people wouldn’t now be dropping dead of something with a higher mortality than Covid! .., the truth will out.
But it will be decades. Nobody wants that smoke. Even we don’t want to know if we are honest .., I’m sure you had multiple ones too.
Imagine the cost. The truth wouldn’t bankrupt corporations .., it could bankrupt nations, I’m guessing many NHS employees were told it was a vaccination or their job! .., not great is it. Plus th other billions would have a case their governments coerced them.
So we did have choices. Not panicking being the best…, wouldn’t be so bad if most of the world didn’t follow the singular narrative.
But some country’s have lower vaccination rates .., so you can research heart conditions and increased general mortality pre and post vaccinations.
I wouldn’t. It’s genuinely depressing. And research to prove causality, isn’t coming, very predictable. So we didn’t get it right, nobody did except maybe Sweden and a few others.
Time and light (eventually) will reveal all, hopefully this who continue to lose loved ones, will eventually get support.., lot of people more interested in their ego and validating their pro vaccination narrative than genuine empathy to those dying .., that’s not a functional society.
I don’t care either way. I want the truth. Not ego and self interest. |
A lot of conspiratorial stuff in there with absolutely no evidence to back it up. Can you please provide evidence for at least some of the assertions you've made?
You say there is no published long term data or data on blood clotting.
I literally posted the statistics on blood clots and a long term study with millions of participants in this thread.
SB | | | |
| Covid vaccine harm on 11:19 - Feb 18 with 1492 views | Ewan_Oozami |
| Covid vaccine harm on 10:59 - Feb 18 by darkhorse28 |
They were to do what the job of government and media is to do. Not to panic. Reduce issues through the prism of group think and echo chambers, and to have more open and honest discussions.
It quickly became and still is about vaccine efficacy overhaul, rather than a specific set of vaccines in this situation, which was a unique set of circumstances.
Yes the saved lives. But at what long term costs. Healthy people are suffering and in Scotland we’ve run covert heart checks of random samples of men, with zero discussions on why (entirely because of Covid vaccine concerns).
The amount of long term implications remains to be seen, but it certainly isn’t good…, the lack of open discussion, and treating people like village idiots due to fears of conflation to all vaccines is terrifying, it’s the media and state at its worst, putting health behind careers and agreed narrative.
The consequences are huge, and I suspect we’ll never get the true story.
Just look at the ‘follow the science’ John Hopkins who’s research we used did a meta analysis, and it destroyed the actions of our media and politicians after the first lockdown…, obviously hindsight is wonderful, but we followed the science, right up until it didn’t agree with media and politicians, then we ignored it entirely.
The same research. But the definitive end. It said our politicians and media got it badly wrong, no lives saved (statistically insignificant) due to lockdowns (not vaccines).
There’s an agreed narrative.
The heart conditions. Blood clotting. Strokes.., the numbers and increases since vaccination are terryfying.
We’ll never publish the causality, I doubt we’ll ever do the expanded research required.
ALL the funding comes from those parties that can’t afford it to ever happen.
So yes it was complicated and difficult.
But no. It’s not politicians and media’s jobs to put our health behind their careers. And the profits and sustainability of our pharmaceutical industry.
It was their job to protect and inform.
I worked for the Scottish Ambulance service, Covid testing, and it was heartbreaking…., but it’s worse watching the complete lack of scrutiny and frankly the what is a cover up that in many decades time I suspect we will be talking about.
I see research data (third hand) though a close friends wife who works for a drug research company…., she’s very pro vaccine obviously .., she had zero covid vaccines and the data in Canada and Scotland she has seen is horrific and can never get behind small samples, because it’s so bad.
She’s never seen results not get funding for bigger sample sizes, when the conflation of problems to those vaccinated is so strong.
She has now…, I think sadly it is what it is. A huge cover up.
And was it worth the two generational fertility compromise, time will tell, but the blood clotting is real, the heart issues are real, the numbers are staggering and it’s criminal, not that we made those decisions…, most people can empathise with the circumstances, and difficulty…, but the cover up and lack of integrity NOW and since.
I had 3 vaccines…, it was made a condition of my job, for NHS Scotland.
What do you think would happen if I’ve been forced as a very fit and healthy person to take 3 vaccines, that have placed my long term health in jeopardy.
Multiply that by billions across the globe, add in a risk of people losing faith in vaccines and you have you answer.
So no. I don’t think it’s ok politicians care more about money and big business, and their careers than our health!!
It’s woeful. Obviously hindsight but we should have educated fit and healthy people they not being vaccinated was an option.
Too difficult message to sell though wasn’t it. So panic it is .., and (not) deal with the consequences later.
Maybe all the heart issues in vaccinated populations are just a big old coincidence .., we did eat a lot of snacks. Sake. There is no mitigation for how we’ve responded to the failures, more panic and self interest.
Obviously not a party political point, it’s all politicians, all media, and nobody can still speak out without been drown out as anti vaccine …, that dogma is incredibly unhealthy …, when genuine discourse is reduced to dogma and tribal nonsense.
Vaccines are great. Not all vaccines are great. If only we couod do complexity, nuance, discourse as a society,, millions of people wouldn’t now be dropping dead of something with a higher mortality than Covid! .., the truth will out.
But it will be decades. Nobody wants that smoke. Even we don’t want to know if we are honest .., I’m sure you had multiple ones too.
Imagine the cost. The truth wouldn’t bankrupt corporations .., it could bankrupt nations, I’m guessing many NHS employees were told it was a vaccination or their job! .., not great is it. Plus th other billions would have a case their governments coerced them.
So we did have choices. Not panicking being the best…, wouldn’t be so bad if most of the world didn’t follow the singular narrative.
But some country’s have lower vaccination rates .., so you can research heart conditions and increased general mortality pre and post vaccinations.
I wouldn’t. It’s genuinely depressing. And research to prove causality, isn’t coming, very predictable. So we didn’t get it right, nobody did except maybe Sweden and a few others.
Time and light (eventually) will reveal all, hopefully this who continue to lose loved ones, will eventually get support.., lot of people more interested in their ego and validating their pro vaccination narrative than genuine empathy to those dying .., that’s not a functional society.
I don’t care either way. I want the truth. Not ego and self interest. |
You're not "Dr" John Campbell are you? |  |
| |
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| Covid vaccine harm on 11:20 - Feb 18 with 1473 views | NedPlimpton |
| Covid vaccine harm on 10:59 - Feb 18 by darkhorse28 |
They were to do what the job of government and media is to do. Not to panic. Reduce issues through the prism of group think and echo chambers, and to have more open and honest discussions.
It quickly became and still is about vaccine efficacy overhaul, rather than a specific set of vaccines in this situation, which was a unique set of circumstances.
Yes the saved lives. But at what long term costs. Healthy people are suffering and in Scotland we’ve run covert heart checks of random samples of men, with zero discussions on why (entirely because of Covid vaccine concerns).
The amount of long term implications remains to be seen, but it certainly isn’t good…, the lack of open discussion, and treating people like village idiots due to fears of conflation to all vaccines is terrifying, it’s the media and state at its worst, putting health behind careers and agreed narrative.
The consequences are huge, and I suspect we’ll never get the true story.
Just look at the ‘follow the science’ John Hopkins who’s research we used did a meta analysis, and it destroyed the actions of our media and politicians after the first lockdown…, obviously hindsight is wonderful, but we followed the science, right up until it didn’t agree with media and politicians, then we ignored it entirely.
The same research. But the definitive end. It said our politicians and media got it badly wrong, no lives saved (statistically insignificant) due to lockdowns (not vaccines).
There’s an agreed narrative.
The heart conditions. Blood clotting. Strokes.., the numbers and increases since vaccination are terryfying.
We’ll never publish the causality, I doubt we’ll ever do the expanded research required.
ALL the funding comes from those parties that can’t afford it to ever happen.
So yes it was complicated and difficult.
But no. It’s not politicians and media’s jobs to put our health behind their careers. And the profits and sustainability of our pharmaceutical industry.
It was their job to protect and inform.
I worked for the Scottish Ambulance service, Covid testing, and it was heartbreaking…., but it’s worse watching the complete lack of scrutiny and frankly the what is a cover up that in many decades time I suspect we will be talking about.
I see research data (third hand) though a close friends wife who works for a drug research company…., she’s very pro vaccine obviously .., she had zero covid vaccines and the data in Canada and Scotland she has seen is horrific and can never get behind small samples, because it’s so bad.
She’s never seen results not get funding for bigger sample sizes, when the conflation of problems to those vaccinated is so strong.
She has now…, I think sadly it is what it is. A huge cover up.
And was it worth the two generational fertility compromise, time will tell, but the blood clotting is real, the heart issues are real, the numbers are staggering and it’s criminal, not that we made those decisions…, most people can empathise with the circumstances, and difficulty…, but the cover up and lack of integrity NOW and since.
I had 3 vaccines…, it was made a condition of my job, for NHS Scotland.
What do you think would happen if I’ve been forced as a very fit and healthy person to take 3 vaccines, that have placed my long term health in jeopardy.
Multiply that by billions across the globe, add in a risk of people losing faith in vaccines and you have you answer.
So no. I don’t think it’s ok politicians care more about money and big business, and their careers than our health!!
It’s woeful. Obviously hindsight but we should have educated fit and healthy people they not being vaccinated was an option.
Too difficult message to sell though wasn’t it. So panic it is .., and (not) deal with the consequences later.
Maybe all the heart issues in vaccinated populations are just a big old coincidence .., we did eat a lot of snacks. Sake. There is no mitigation for how we’ve responded to the failures, more panic and self interest.
Obviously not a party political point, it’s all politicians, all media, and nobody can still speak out without been drown out as anti vaccine …, that dogma is incredibly unhealthy …, when genuine discourse is reduced to dogma and tribal nonsense.
Vaccines are great. Not all vaccines are great. If only we couod do complexity, nuance, discourse as a society,, millions of people wouldn’t now be dropping dead of something with a higher mortality than Covid! .., the truth will out.
But it will be decades. Nobody wants that smoke. Even we don’t want to know if we are honest .., I’m sure you had multiple ones too.
Imagine the cost. The truth wouldn’t bankrupt corporations .., it could bankrupt nations, I’m guessing many NHS employees were told it was a vaccination or their job! .., not great is it. Plus th other billions would have a case their governments coerced them.
So we did have choices. Not panicking being the best…, wouldn’t be so bad if most of the world didn’t follow the singular narrative.
But some country’s have lower vaccination rates .., so you can research heart conditions and increased general mortality pre and post vaccinations.
I wouldn’t. It’s genuinely depressing. And research to prove causality, isn’t coming, very predictable. So we didn’t get it right, nobody did except maybe Sweden and a few others.
Time and light (eventually) will reveal all, hopefully this who continue to lose loved ones, will eventually get support.., lot of people more interested in their ego and validating their pro vaccination narrative than genuine empathy to those dying .., that’s not a functional society.
I don’t care either way. I want the truth. Not ego and self interest. |
Downvoted for an awful lot of claims without a single bit of evidence shared |  | | |
| Covid vaccine harm on 12:03 - Feb 18 with 1329 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Covid vaccine harm on 07:19 - Feb 18 by Swansea_Blue |
lol - what’s the point? It’s ridiculous that redactions are allowed to this level in public money contracts. All rates should be published.
Anyhow, I’d be checking links between NHS bosses, ministers at the time and the provider. I doubt a gravy train was set up by accident.
As for the vaccines, all that chest beating about the Oxford University/AstraZeneca vaccine will ring hollow for some families. We have to remember that even this vaccine was overwhelmingly positive and saved countless lives, but it’s possible longer trials may have caught the issue. Although what were scientists and the NHS to do in such dire circumstances that do their best to react quickly.
There’s a recent article here that outlines what they think was the issue with the AstraZenica vaccines- https://www.theatlantic.com/sc (available without paywall for a limited number of free articles per month). |
Not sure what the image is about but it is copyrighted 2019, so it isn’t about Covid. |  |
| |
| Covid vaccine harm on 13:46 - Feb 18 with 1107 views | Illinoisblue |
| Covid vaccine harm on 10:59 - Feb 18 by darkhorse28 |
They were to do what the job of government and media is to do. Not to panic. Reduce issues through the prism of group think and echo chambers, and to have more open and honest discussions.
It quickly became and still is about vaccine efficacy overhaul, rather than a specific set of vaccines in this situation, which was a unique set of circumstances.
Yes the saved lives. But at what long term costs. Healthy people are suffering and in Scotland we’ve run covert heart checks of random samples of men, with zero discussions on why (entirely because of Covid vaccine concerns).
The amount of long term implications remains to be seen, but it certainly isn’t good…, the lack of open discussion, and treating people like village idiots due to fears of conflation to all vaccines is terrifying, it’s the media and state at its worst, putting health behind careers and agreed narrative.
The consequences are huge, and I suspect we’ll never get the true story.
Just look at the ‘follow the science’ John Hopkins who’s research we used did a meta analysis, and it destroyed the actions of our media and politicians after the first lockdown…, obviously hindsight is wonderful, but we followed the science, right up until it didn’t agree with media and politicians, then we ignored it entirely.
The same research. But the definitive end. It said our politicians and media got it badly wrong, no lives saved (statistically insignificant) due to lockdowns (not vaccines).
There’s an agreed narrative.
The heart conditions. Blood clotting. Strokes.., the numbers and increases since vaccination are terryfying.
We’ll never publish the causality, I doubt we’ll ever do the expanded research required.
ALL the funding comes from those parties that can’t afford it to ever happen.
So yes it was complicated and difficult.
But no. It’s not politicians and media’s jobs to put our health behind their careers. And the profits and sustainability of our pharmaceutical industry.
It was their job to protect and inform.
I worked for the Scottish Ambulance service, Covid testing, and it was heartbreaking…., but it’s worse watching the complete lack of scrutiny and frankly the what is a cover up that in many decades time I suspect we will be talking about.
I see research data (third hand) though a close friends wife who works for a drug research company…., she’s very pro vaccine obviously .., she had zero covid vaccines and the data in Canada and Scotland she has seen is horrific and can never get behind small samples, because it’s so bad.
She’s never seen results not get funding for bigger sample sizes, when the conflation of problems to those vaccinated is so strong.
She has now…, I think sadly it is what it is. A huge cover up.
And was it worth the two generational fertility compromise, time will tell, but the blood clotting is real, the heart issues are real, the numbers are staggering and it’s criminal, not that we made those decisions…, most people can empathise with the circumstances, and difficulty…, but the cover up and lack of integrity NOW and since.
I had 3 vaccines…, it was made a condition of my job, for NHS Scotland.
What do you think would happen if I’ve been forced as a very fit and healthy person to take 3 vaccines, that have placed my long term health in jeopardy.
Multiply that by billions across the globe, add in a risk of people losing faith in vaccines and you have you answer.
So no. I don’t think it’s ok politicians care more about money and big business, and their careers than our health!!
It’s woeful. Obviously hindsight but we should have educated fit and healthy people they not being vaccinated was an option.
Too difficult message to sell though wasn’t it. So panic it is .., and (not) deal with the consequences later.
Maybe all the heart issues in vaccinated populations are just a big old coincidence .., we did eat a lot of snacks. Sake. There is no mitigation for how we’ve responded to the failures, more panic and self interest.
Obviously not a party political point, it’s all politicians, all media, and nobody can still speak out without been drown out as anti vaccine …, that dogma is incredibly unhealthy …, when genuine discourse is reduced to dogma and tribal nonsense.
Vaccines are great. Not all vaccines are great. If only we couod do complexity, nuance, discourse as a society,, millions of people wouldn’t now be dropping dead of something with a higher mortality than Covid! .., the truth will out.
But it will be decades. Nobody wants that smoke. Even we don’t want to know if we are honest .., I’m sure you had multiple ones too.
Imagine the cost. The truth wouldn’t bankrupt corporations .., it could bankrupt nations, I’m guessing many NHS employees were told it was a vaccination or their job! .., not great is it. Plus th other billions would have a case their governments coerced them.
So we did have choices. Not panicking being the best…, wouldn’t be so bad if most of the world didn’t follow the singular narrative.
But some country’s have lower vaccination rates .., so you can research heart conditions and increased general mortality pre and post vaccinations.
I wouldn’t. It’s genuinely depressing. And research to prove causality, isn’t coming, very predictable. So we didn’t get it right, nobody did except maybe Sweden and a few others.
Time and light (eventually) will reveal all, hopefully this who continue to lose loved ones, will eventually get support.., lot of people more interested in their ego and validating their pro vaccination narrative than genuine empathy to those dying .., that’s not a functional society.
I don’t care either way. I want the truth. Not ego and self interest. |
Where did you copy and paste that from? |  |
| |
| Covid vaccine harm on 14:05 - Feb 18 with 1078 views | SuffolkITFC |
| Covid vaccine harm on 10:59 - Feb 18 by darkhorse28 |
They were to do what the job of government and media is to do. Not to panic. Reduce issues through the prism of group think and echo chambers, and to have more open and honest discussions.
It quickly became and still is about vaccine efficacy overhaul, rather than a specific set of vaccines in this situation, which was a unique set of circumstances.
Yes the saved lives. But at what long term costs. Healthy people are suffering and in Scotland we’ve run covert heart checks of random samples of men, with zero discussions on why (entirely because of Covid vaccine concerns).
The amount of long term implications remains to be seen, but it certainly isn’t good…, the lack of open discussion, and treating people like village idiots due to fears of conflation to all vaccines is terrifying, it’s the media and state at its worst, putting health behind careers and agreed narrative.
The consequences are huge, and I suspect we’ll never get the true story.
Just look at the ‘follow the science’ John Hopkins who’s research we used did a meta analysis, and it destroyed the actions of our media and politicians after the first lockdown…, obviously hindsight is wonderful, but we followed the science, right up until it didn’t agree with media and politicians, then we ignored it entirely.
The same research. But the definitive end. It said our politicians and media got it badly wrong, no lives saved (statistically insignificant) due to lockdowns (not vaccines).
There’s an agreed narrative.
The heart conditions. Blood clotting. Strokes.., the numbers and increases since vaccination are terryfying.
We’ll never publish the causality, I doubt we’ll ever do the expanded research required.
ALL the funding comes from those parties that can’t afford it to ever happen.
So yes it was complicated and difficult.
But no. It’s not politicians and media’s jobs to put our health behind their careers. And the profits and sustainability of our pharmaceutical industry.
It was their job to protect and inform.
I worked for the Scottish Ambulance service, Covid testing, and it was heartbreaking…., but it’s worse watching the complete lack of scrutiny and frankly the what is a cover up that in many decades time I suspect we will be talking about.
I see research data (third hand) though a close friends wife who works for a drug research company…., she’s very pro vaccine obviously .., she had zero covid vaccines and the data in Canada and Scotland she has seen is horrific and can never get behind small samples, because it’s so bad.
She’s never seen results not get funding for bigger sample sizes, when the conflation of problems to those vaccinated is so strong.
She has now…, I think sadly it is what it is. A huge cover up.
And was it worth the two generational fertility compromise, time will tell, but the blood clotting is real, the heart issues are real, the numbers are staggering and it’s criminal, not that we made those decisions…, most people can empathise with the circumstances, and difficulty…, but the cover up and lack of integrity NOW and since.
I had 3 vaccines…, it was made a condition of my job, for NHS Scotland.
What do you think would happen if I’ve been forced as a very fit and healthy person to take 3 vaccines, that have placed my long term health in jeopardy.
Multiply that by billions across the globe, add in a risk of people losing faith in vaccines and you have you answer.
So no. I don’t think it’s ok politicians care more about money and big business, and their careers than our health!!
It’s woeful. Obviously hindsight but we should have educated fit and healthy people they not being vaccinated was an option.
Too difficult message to sell though wasn’t it. So panic it is .., and (not) deal with the consequences later.
Maybe all the heart issues in vaccinated populations are just a big old coincidence .., we did eat a lot of snacks. Sake. There is no mitigation for how we’ve responded to the failures, more panic and self interest.
Obviously not a party political point, it’s all politicians, all media, and nobody can still speak out without been drown out as anti vaccine …, that dogma is incredibly unhealthy …, when genuine discourse is reduced to dogma and tribal nonsense.
Vaccines are great. Not all vaccines are great. If only we couod do complexity, nuance, discourse as a society,, millions of people wouldn’t now be dropping dead of something with a higher mortality than Covid! .., the truth will out.
But it will be decades. Nobody wants that smoke. Even we don’t want to know if we are honest .., I’m sure you had multiple ones too.
Imagine the cost. The truth wouldn’t bankrupt corporations .., it could bankrupt nations, I’m guessing many NHS employees were told it was a vaccination or their job! .., not great is it. Plus th other billions would have a case their governments coerced them.
So we did have choices. Not panicking being the best…, wouldn’t be so bad if most of the world didn’t follow the singular narrative.
But some country’s have lower vaccination rates .., so you can research heart conditions and increased general mortality pre and post vaccinations.
I wouldn’t. It’s genuinely depressing. And research to prove causality, isn’t coming, very predictable. So we didn’t get it right, nobody did except maybe Sweden and a few others.
Time and light (eventually) will reveal all, hopefully this who continue to lose loved ones, will eventually get support.., lot of people more interested in their ego and validating their pro vaccination narrative than genuine empathy to those dying .., that’s not a functional society.
I don’t care either way. I want the truth. Not ego and self interest. |
Give it up mate. This is typical conspiracy nut word salad. The vaccine saved millions of lives. I lost people during the pandemic including nurses who were caring for patients. People like you who spout this rubbish have blood on your hands. | | | |
| Covid vaccine harm on 14:11 - Feb 18 with 1058 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Covid vaccine harm on 12:03 - Feb 18 by Pinewoodblue |
Not sure what the image is about but it is copyrighted 2019, so it isn’t about Covid. |
It’s from the contract awarded to the company that administers vaccine claims, so covers all vaccines and was already in place when Covid hit. I’m surprised things like rates are confidential as they’re essential for knowing how public money is being spent. | |
| |
| Covid vaccine harm on 14:32 - Feb 18 with 1019 views | eirannach_gorm |
| Covid vaccine harm on 10:59 - Feb 18 by darkhorse28 |
They were to do what the job of government and media is to do. Not to panic. Reduce issues through the prism of group think and echo chambers, and to have more open and honest discussions.
It quickly became and still is about vaccine efficacy overhaul, rather than a specific set of vaccines in this situation, which was a unique set of circumstances.
Yes the saved lives. But at what long term costs. Healthy people are suffering and in Scotland we’ve run covert heart checks of random samples of men, with zero discussions on why (entirely because of Covid vaccine concerns).
The amount of long term implications remains to be seen, but it certainly isn’t good…, the lack of open discussion, and treating people like village idiots due to fears of conflation to all vaccines is terrifying, it’s the media and state at its worst, putting health behind careers and agreed narrative.
The consequences are huge, and I suspect we’ll never get the true story.
Just look at the ‘follow the science’ John Hopkins who’s research we used did a meta analysis, and it destroyed the actions of our media and politicians after the first lockdown…, obviously hindsight is wonderful, but we followed the science, right up until it didn’t agree with media and politicians, then we ignored it entirely.
The same research. But the definitive end. It said our politicians and media got it badly wrong, no lives saved (statistically insignificant) due to lockdowns (not vaccines).
There’s an agreed narrative.
The heart conditions. Blood clotting. Strokes.., the numbers and increases since vaccination are terryfying.
We’ll never publish the causality, I doubt we’ll ever do the expanded research required.
ALL the funding comes from those parties that can’t afford it to ever happen.
So yes it was complicated and difficult.
But no. It’s not politicians and media’s jobs to put our health behind their careers. And the profits and sustainability of our pharmaceutical industry.
It was their job to protect and inform.
I worked for the Scottish Ambulance service, Covid testing, and it was heartbreaking…., but it’s worse watching the complete lack of scrutiny and frankly the what is a cover up that in many decades time I suspect we will be talking about.
I see research data (third hand) though a close friends wife who works for a drug research company…., she’s very pro vaccine obviously .., she had zero covid vaccines and the data in Canada and Scotland she has seen is horrific and can never get behind small samples, because it’s so bad.
She’s never seen results not get funding for bigger sample sizes, when the conflation of problems to those vaccinated is so strong.
She has now…, I think sadly it is what it is. A huge cover up.
And was it worth the two generational fertility compromise, time will tell, but the blood clotting is real, the heart issues are real, the numbers are staggering and it’s criminal, not that we made those decisions…, most people can empathise with the circumstances, and difficulty…, but the cover up and lack of integrity NOW and since.
I had 3 vaccines…, it was made a condition of my job, for NHS Scotland.
What do you think would happen if I’ve been forced as a very fit and healthy person to take 3 vaccines, that have placed my long term health in jeopardy.
Multiply that by billions across the globe, add in a risk of people losing faith in vaccines and you have you answer.
So no. I don’t think it’s ok politicians care more about money and big business, and their careers than our health!!
It’s woeful. Obviously hindsight but we should have educated fit and healthy people they not being vaccinated was an option.
Too difficult message to sell though wasn’t it. So panic it is .., and (not) deal with the consequences later.
Maybe all the heart issues in vaccinated populations are just a big old coincidence .., we did eat a lot of snacks. Sake. There is no mitigation for how we’ve responded to the failures, more panic and self interest.
Obviously not a party political point, it’s all politicians, all media, and nobody can still speak out without been drown out as anti vaccine …, that dogma is incredibly unhealthy …, when genuine discourse is reduced to dogma and tribal nonsense.
Vaccines are great. Not all vaccines are great. If only we couod do complexity, nuance, discourse as a society,, millions of people wouldn’t now be dropping dead of something with a higher mortality than Covid! .., the truth will out.
But it will be decades. Nobody wants that smoke. Even we don’t want to know if we are honest .., I’m sure you had multiple ones too.
Imagine the cost. The truth wouldn’t bankrupt corporations .., it could bankrupt nations, I’m guessing many NHS employees were told it was a vaccination or their job! .., not great is it. Plus th other billions would have a case their governments coerced them.
So we did have choices. Not panicking being the best…, wouldn’t be so bad if most of the world didn’t follow the singular narrative.
But some country’s have lower vaccination rates .., so you can research heart conditions and increased general mortality pre and post vaccinations.
I wouldn’t. It’s genuinely depressing. And research to prove causality, isn’t coming, very predictable. So we didn’t get it right, nobody did except maybe Sweden and a few others.
Time and light (eventually) will reveal all, hopefully this who continue to lose loved ones, will eventually get support.., lot of people more interested in their ego and validating their pro vaccination narrative than genuine empathy to those dying .., that’s not a functional society.
I don’t care either way. I want the truth. Not ego and self interest. |
You are quite correct, the Covid -19 virus vaccine was a bad idea.
https://www.facebook.com/share | | | |
| Covid vaccine harm on 14:41 - Feb 18 with 1007 views | LeoMuff |
| Covid vaccine harm on 10:59 - Feb 18 by darkhorse28 |
They were to do what the job of government and media is to do. Not to panic. Reduce issues through the prism of group think and echo chambers, and to have more open and honest discussions.
It quickly became and still is about vaccine efficacy overhaul, rather than a specific set of vaccines in this situation, which was a unique set of circumstances.
Yes the saved lives. But at what long term costs. Healthy people are suffering and in Scotland we’ve run covert heart checks of random samples of men, with zero discussions on why (entirely because of Covid vaccine concerns).
The amount of long term implications remains to be seen, but it certainly isn’t good…, the lack of open discussion, and treating people like village idiots due to fears of conflation to all vaccines is terrifying, it’s the media and state at its worst, putting health behind careers and agreed narrative.
The consequences are huge, and I suspect we’ll never get the true story.
Just look at the ‘follow the science’ John Hopkins who’s research we used did a meta analysis, and it destroyed the actions of our media and politicians after the first lockdown…, obviously hindsight is wonderful, but we followed the science, right up until it didn’t agree with media and politicians, then we ignored it entirely.
The same research. But the definitive end. It said our politicians and media got it badly wrong, no lives saved (statistically insignificant) due to lockdowns (not vaccines).
There’s an agreed narrative.
The heart conditions. Blood clotting. Strokes.., the numbers and increases since vaccination are terryfying.
We’ll never publish the causality, I doubt we’ll ever do the expanded research required.
ALL the funding comes from those parties that can’t afford it to ever happen.
So yes it was complicated and difficult.
But no. It’s not politicians and media’s jobs to put our health behind their careers. And the profits and sustainability of our pharmaceutical industry.
It was their job to protect and inform.
I worked for the Scottish Ambulance service, Covid testing, and it was heartbreaking…., but it’s worse watching the complete lack of scrutiny and frankly the what is a cover up that in many decades time I suspect we will be talking about.
I see research data (third hand) though a close friends wife who works for a drug research company…., she’s very pro vaccine obviously .., she had zero covid vaccines and the data in Canada and Scotland she has seen is horrific and can never get behind small samples, because it’s so bad.
She’s never seen results not get funding for bigger sample sizes, when the conflation of problems to those vaccinated is so strong.
She has now…, I think sadly it is what it is. A huge cover up.
And was it worth the two generational fertility compromise, time will tell, but the blood clotting is real, the heart issues are real, the numbers are staggering and it’s criminal, not that we made those decisions…, most people can empathise with the circumstances, and difficulty…, but the cover up and lack of integrity NOW and since.
I had 3 vaccines…, it was made a condition of my job, for NHS Scotland.
What do you think would happen if I’ve been forced as a very fit and healthy person to take 3 vaccines, that have placed my long term health in jeopardy.
Multiply that by billions across the globe, add in a risk of people losing faith in vaccines and you have you answer.
So no. I don’t think it’s ok politicians care more about money and big business, and their careers than our health!!
It’s woeful. Obviously hindsight but we should have educated fit and healthy people they not being vaccinated was an option.
Too difficult message to sell though wasn’t it. So panic it is .., and (not) deal with the consequences later.
Maybe all the heart issues in vaccinated populations are just a big old coincidence .., we did eat a lot of snacks. Sake. There is no mitigation for how we’ve responded to the failures, more panic and self interest.
Obviously not a party political point, it’s all politicians, all media, and nobody can still speak out without been drown out as anti vaccine …, that dogma is incredibly unhealthy …, when genuine discourse is reduced to dogma and tribal nonsense.
Vaccines are great. Not all vaccines are great. If only we couod do complexity, nuance, discourse as a society,, millions of people wouldn’t now be dropping dead of something with a higher mortality than Covid! .., the truth will out.
But it will be decades. Nobody wants that smoke. Even we don’t want to know if we are honest .., I’m sure you had multiple ones too.
Imagine the cost. The truth wouldn’t bankrupt corporations .., it could bankrupt nations, I’m guessing many NHS employees were told it was a vaccination or their job! .., not great is it. Plus th other billions would have a case their governments coerced them.
So we did have choices. Not panicking being the best…, wouldn’t be so bad if most of the world didn’t follow the singular narrative.
But some country’s have lower vaccination rates .., so you can research heart conditions and increased general mortality pre and post vaccinations.
I wouldn’t. It’s genuinely depressing. And research to prove causality, isn’t coming, very predictable. So we didn’t get it right, nobody did except maybe Sweden and a few others.
Time and light (eventually) will reveal all, hopefully this who continue to lose loved ones, will eventually get support.., lot of people more interested in their ego and validating their pro vaccination narrative than genuine empathy to those dying .., that’s not a functional society.
I don’t care either way. I want the truth. Not ego and self interest. |
Even if there are some under reported side effects that are very serious , it still can’t be argued that vaccines saved millions or billions of lives across the globe.
The vaccine may have had some negatives but the positives were absolutely huge |  |
| |
| Covid vaccine harm on 14:54 - Feb 18 with 982 views | Cafe_Newman |
| Covid vaccine harm on 14:41 - Feb 18 by LeoMuff |
Even if there are some under reported side effects that are very serious , it still can’t be argued that vaccines saved millions or billions of lives across the globe.
The vaccine may have had some negatives but the positives were absolutely huge |
I have little skin in the game on this topic, but I'm fascinated to know how you can claim that it "can’t be argued that vaccines saved millions or billions of lives across the globe".
What real data do you have to support this claim? |  | | |
| Covid vaccine harm on 15:38 - Feb 18 with 906 views | LeoMuff |
| Covid vaccine harm on 14:54 - Feb 18 by Cafe_Newman |
I have little skin in the game on this topic, but I'm fascinated to know how you can claim that it "can’t be argued that vaccines saved millions or billions of lives across the globe".
What real data do you have to support this claim? |
https://www.imperial.ac.uk/new | |
| |
| Covid vaccine harm on 15:47 - Feb 18 with 887 views | DarkBrandon |
Yes, but you said "can't". Which I assumed at the time was a typo. |  | | |
| Covid vaccine harm on 16:07 - Feb 18 with 852 views | Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
| Covid vaccine harm on 10:59 - Feb 18 by darkhorse28 |
They were to do what the job of government and media is to do. Not to panic. Reduce issues through the prism of group think and echo chambers, and to have more open and honest discussions.
It quickly became and still is about vaccine efficacy overhaul, rather than a specific set of vaccines in this situation, which was a unique set of circumstances.
Yes the saved lives. But at what long term costs. Healthy people are suffering and in Scotland we’ve run covert heart checks of random samples of men, with zero discussions on why (entirely because of Covid vaccine concerns).
The amount of long term implications remains to be seen, but it certainly isn’t good…, the lack of open discussion, and treating people like village idiots due to fears of conflation to all vaccines is terrifying, it’s the media and state at its worst, putting health behind careers and agreed narrative.
The consequences are huge, and I suspect we’ll never get the true story.
Just look at the ‘follow the science’ John Hopkins who’s research we used did a meta analysis, and it destroyed the actions of our media and politicians after the first lockdown…, obviously hindsight is wonderful, but we followed the science, right up until it didn’t agree with media and politicians, then we ignored it entirely.
The same research. But the definitive end. It said our politicians and media got it badly wrong, no lives saved (statistically insignificant) due to lockdowns (not vaccines).
There’s an agreed narrative.
The heart conditions. Blood clotting. Strokes.., the numbers and increases since vaccination are terryfying.
We’ll never publish the causality, I doubt we’ll ever do the expanded research required.
ALL the funding comes from those parties that can’t afford it to ever happen.
So yes it was complicated and difficult.
But no. It’s not politicians and media’s jobs to put our health behind their careers. And the profits and sustainability of our pharmaceutical industry.
It was their job to protect and inform.
I worked for the Scottish Ambulance service, Covid testing, and it was heartbreaking…., but it’s worse watching the complete lack of scrutiny and frankly the what is a cover up that in many decades time I suspect we will be talking about.
I see research data (third hand) though a close friends wife who works for a drug research company…., she’s very pro vaccine obviously .., she had zero covid vaccines and the data in Canada and Scotland she has seen is horrific and can never get behind small samples, because it’s so bad.
She’s never seen results not get funding for bigger sample sizes, when the conflation of problems to those vaccinated is so strong.
She has now…, I think sadly it is what it is. A huge cover up.
And was it worth the two generational fertility compromise, time will tell, but the blood clotting is real, the heart issues are real, the numbers are staggering and it’s criminal, not that we made those decisions…, most people can empathise with the circumstances, and difficulty…, but the cover up and lack of integrity NOW and since.
I had 3 vaccines…, it was made a condition of my job, for NHS Scotland.
What do you think would happen if I’ve been forced as a very fit and healthy person to take 3 vaccines, that have placed my long term health in jeopardy.
Multiply that by billions across the globe, add in a risk of people losing faith in vaccines and you have you answer.
So no. I don’t think it’s ok politicians care more about money and big business, and their careers than our health!!
It’s woeful. Obviously hindsight but we should have educated fit and healthy people they not being vaccinated was an option.
Too difficult message to sell though wasn’t it. So panic it is .., and (not) deal with the consequences later.
Maybe all the heart issues in vaccinated populations are just a big old coincidence .., we did eat a lot of snacks. Sake. There is no mitigation for how we’ve responded to the failures, more panic and self interest.
Obviously not a party political point, it’s all politicians, all media, and nobody can still speak out without been drown out as anti vaccine …, that dogma is incredibly unhealthy …, when genuine discourse is reduced to dogma and tribal nonsense.
Vaccines are great. Not all vaccines are great. If only we couod do complexity, nuance, discourse as a society,, millions of people wouldn’t now be dropping dead of something with a higher mortality than Covid! .., the truth will out.
But it will be decades. Nobody wants that smoke. Even we don’t want to know if we are honest .., I’m sure you had multiple ones too.
Imagine the cost. The truth wouldn’t bankrupt corporations .., it could bankrupt nations, I’m guessing many NHS employees were told it was a vaccination or their job! .., not great is it. Plus th other billions would have a case their governments coerced them.
So we did have choices. Not panicking being the best…, wouldn’t be so bad if most of the world didn’t follow the singular narrative.
But some country’s have lower vaccination rates .., so you can research heart conditions and increased general mortality pre and post vaccinations.
I wouldn’t. It’s genuinely depressing. And research to prove causality, isn’t coming, very predictable. So we didn’t get it right, nobody did except maybe Sweden and a few others.
Time and light (eventually) will reveal all, hopefully this who continue to lose loved ones, will eventually get support.., lot of people more interested in their ego and validating their pro vaccination narrative than genuine empathy to those dying .., that’s not a functional society.
I don’t care either way. I want the truth. Not ego and self interest. |
Vaccines aside, there needs to be as many studies as possible from a policy perspective regarding this (hopefully) once in a generation event.
The extended lockdowns and restrictions, going into 2021 in many areas, had such devastating and lasting effects that are still very much being felt today. Undiagnosed and untreated diseases (including younger cancer patients people that had minimal risk of dying from Covid), mental health for all ages and the social/educational development of children. That's before even going into the economic aspects of it. |  |
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| Covid vaccine harm on 16:53 - Feb 18 with 786 views | Cafe_Newman |
"Vaccinations may have prevented almost 20 million COVID-19 deaths worldwide
by Emily Head, Dr Sabine L. van Elsland
Vaccinations estimatedto have averted 19.8 million COVID-19 deaths worldwide in their first year, according to the latest Imperial modelling study.
In the first year of the vaccination programme, 19.8 million out of a potential 31.4 million COVID-19 deaths were prevented worldwide according to estimates based on excess deaths from 185 countries and territories. These findings were published by Imperial College London's MRC Centre for Global Infectious Disease Analysis in The Lancet Infectious Diseases.
If the targets set out by the WHO had been achieved, 1 in 5 lives lost due to COVID-19 in low-income countries could have been prevented.
Excess deaths
To estimate the impact of global vaccination programmes, the researchers used an established model of COVID-19 transmission using country-level data for officially recorded COVID-19 deaths occurring between 8 December 2020 and 8 December 2021 (the first year of the global vaccination programme). To account for under-reporting of deaths in countries with weaker surveillance systems, they carried out a separate analysis based on the number of excess deaths recorded above those that would have been expected during the same time period. Where official data was not available, the team used estimates of all-cause excess mortality. These analyses were compared with an alternative hypothetical scenario in which no vaccines were delivered.
Your article comes from Imperial College where Neil Ferguson's team were chosen by the government to model the impact of the virus.
It would also be in your interest to check out Neil Ferguson's record for predictions and worst case scenarios in previous epidemics: BSE (2002), Bird Flu (2005) and Swine Flu (2009). It's not convincing reading to say the least.
Providing me with real data between vaccinated and unvaccinated groups across a variety of different countries would be much more informative. If you can find that I'll take a look, but I'll prepare you for the fact that you'll find very little evidence that stands up to scientific scrutiny, which is a shame, because it should be very easy with such an enormous amount of data available. | | | |
| Covid vaccine harm on 17:54 - Feb 18 with 742 views | LeoMuff |
| Covid vaccine harm on 16:53 - Feb 18 by Cafe_Newman |
"Vaccinations may have prevented almost 20 million COVID-19 deaths worldwide
by Emily Head, Dr Sabine L. van Elsland
Vaccinations estimatedto have averted 19.8 million COVID-19 deaths worldwide in their first year, according to the latest Imperial modelling study.
In the first year of the vaccination programme, 19.8 million out of a potential 31.4 million COVID-19 deaths were prevented worldwide according to estimates based on excess deaths from 185 countries and territories. These findings were published by Imperial College London's MRC Centre for Global Infectious Disease Analysis in The Lancet Infectious Diseases.
If the targets set out by the WHO had been achieved, 1 in 5 lives lost due to COVID-19 in low-income countries could have been prevented.
Excess deaths
To estimate the impact of global vaccination programmes, the researchers used an established model of COVID-19 transmission using country-level data for officially recorded COVID-19 deaths occurring between 8 December 2020 and 8 December 2021 (the first year of the global vaccination programme). To account for under-reporting of deaths in countries with weaker surveillance systems, they carried out a separate analysis based on the number of excess deaths recorded above those that would have been expected during the same time period. Where official data was not available, the team used estimates of all-cause excess mortality. These analyses were compared with an alternative hypothetical scenario in which no vaccines were delivered.
Your article comes from Imperial College where Neil Ferguson's team were chosen by the government to model the impact of the virus.
It would also be in your interest to check out Neil Ferguson's record for predictions and worst case scenarios in previous epidemics: BSE (2002), Bird Flu (2005) and Swine Flu (2009). It's not convincing reading to say the least.
Providing me with real data between vaccinated and unvaccinated groups across a variety of different countries would be much more informative. If you can find that I'll take a look, but I'll prepare you for the fact that you'll find very little evidence that stands up to scientific scrutiny, which is a shame, because it should be very easy with such an enormous amount of data available. |
It will always be models and assumptions as the vast majority of the population were vaccinated, and locked down so models are the only option, this one posted are from respected medical sources. | |
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| Covid vaccine harm on 18:13 - Feb 18 with 669 views | Cafe_Newman |
| Covid vaccine harm on 17:54 - Feb 18 by LeoMuff |
It will always be models and assumptions as the vast majority of the population were vaccinated, and locked down so models are the only option, this one posted are from respected medical sources. |
Even if 20% of the population are unvaccinated that's still millions of people - plenty for perfectly valid real data studies.
I'm not sure why you mention lockdowns in your defence of modelling/assumption only studies.
Again, look at Neil Ferguson's record for modelling other virus cases - it's appalling. | | | |
| Covid vaccine harm on 18:24 - Feb 18 with 651 views | Ewan_Oozami |
| Covid vaccine harm on 18:13 - Feb 18 by Cafe_Newman |
Even if 20% of the population are unvaccinated that's still millions of people - plenty for perfectly valid real data studies.
I'm not sure why you mention lockdowns in your defence of modelling/assumption only studies.
Again, look at Neil Ferguson's record for modelling other virus cases - it's appalling. |
Not really sure what your point is here.... | |
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| Covid vaccine harm on 18:24 - Feb 18 with 648 views | LeoMuff |
| Covid vaccine harm on 18:13 - Feb 18 by Cafe_Newman |
Even if 20% of the population are unvaccinated that's still millions of people - plenty for perfectly valid real data studies.
I'm not sure why you mention lockdowns in your defence of modelling/assumption only studies.
Again, look at Neil Ferguson's record for modelling other virus cases - it's appalling. |
It’s very hard to study the effects of a vaccine on deaths if all the population are locked down, as those unvaccinated won’t come into contact with the virus very often.
Modelling or otherwise it’s clear the vaccines saved millions of lives worldwide. | |
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