| Israel jumping the gun after the deranged orange senile toddler's latest rant 12:28 - Apr 7 with 1788 views | NthQldITFC |
Attacking Iranian civilian infrastructure (= War Crimes)* before nappy-crapping little old Donnie has a chance to TACO.
Who's in charge? What's the plan? Which side is the axis of evil this time?
* War Crimes again - boring, War Crime-fatigue. Quick, look at the spaceship going around the moon. [Post edited 7 Apr 12:29]
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| Israel jumping the gun after the deranged orange senile toddler's latest rant on 12:40 - Apr 7 with 1473 views | ArnoldMoorhen |
I think Trump is Gollum (with many in the USA trusting his corruptible, YMCA-dancing, Smeagol alter ego), Netanyahu is his Precious, and Iran is Mordor, with the Straits of Hormuz specifically being the fires of Mount Doom.
Starmer and Macron are Pippin and Merry, obviously. Starmer's people tell him daily that he is Gandalf, though, bless him. |  | | |
| Israel jumping the gun after the deranged orange senile toddler's latest rant on 13:06 - Apr 7 with 1393 views | ElderGrizzly |
News this morning was those surrounding Trump (Vance, Kushner, Witkoff etc) were pushing for a deal/ceasefire.
Israel and Saudis want an escalation.
Lets see who wins that argument. |  | | |
| Israel jumping the gun after the deranged orange senile toddler's latest rant on 13:16 - Apr 7 with 1337 views | The_Major |
| Israel jumping the gun after the deranged orange senile toddler's latest rant on 12:40 - Apr 7 by ArnoldMoorhen |
I think Trump is Gollum (with many in the USA trusting his corruptible, YMCA-dancing, Smeagol alter ego), Netanyahu is his Precious, and Iran is Mordor, with the Straits of Hormuz specifically being the fires of Mount Doom.
Starmer and Macron are Pippin and Merry, obviously. Starmer's people tell him daily that he is Gandalf, though, bless him. |
And as I have said before, Farage is Grima Wormtongue. |  | | |
| Israel jumping the gun after the deranged orange senile toddler's latest rant on 13:22 - Apr 7 with 1312 views | StokieBlue |
Yesterday Israel tried to kill a high ranking Hezbollah target and instead killed the leader of a party opposed to Hezbollah.
They basically said "whoops".
Can't make it up, utterly ridiculous.
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| Israel jumping the gun after the deranged orange senile toddler's latest rant on 13:35 - Apr 7 with 1250 views | TIB |
And now an attack “near the Israeli consulate” in Istanbul. Turkey has been mentioned a lot of late as the next focus for Israel once Iran situation resolved. |  |
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| Israel jumping the gun after the deranged orange senile toddler's latest rant on 17:24 - Apr 7 with 1147 views | StokieBlue |
| Israel jumping the gun after the deranged orange senile toddler's latest rant on 13:35 - Apr 7 by TIB |
And now an attack “near the Israeli consulate” in Istanbul. Turkey has been mentioned a lot of late as the next focus for Israel once Iran situation resolved. |
No chance Israel goes after Turkey.
Firstly it's a member of NATO and secondly they don't go after counties that can realistically fight back.
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| Israel jumping the gun after the deranged orange senile toddler's latest rant on 18:09 - Apr 7 with 1050 views | NthQldITFC |
I suspect Stokie means fight back in a way that either physically or voting intention-wise threatens Netany*hu and the rest of the evil regime in Jerusalem. | |
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| Israel jumping the gun after the deranged orange senile toddler's latest rant on 18:13 - Apr 7 with 1031 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Israel jumping the gun after the deranged orange senile toddler's latest rant on 18:09 - Apr 7 by NthQldITFC |
I suspect Stokie means fight back in a way that either physically or voting intention-wise threatens Netany*hu and the rest of the evil regime in Jerusalem. |
I'll let Stokie speak for himself. |  |
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| Israel jumping the gun after the deranged orange senile toddler's latest rant on 18:54 - Apr 7 with 964 views | NthQldITFC |
| Israel jumping the gun after the deranged orange senile toddler's latest rant on 18:13 - Apr 7 by GlasgowBlue |
I'll let Stokie speak for himself. |
Fair comment. | |
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| Israel jumping the gun after the deranged orange senile toddler's latest rant on 20:40 - Apr 7 with 859 views | StokieBlue |
You think that's fighting back on an equal level to what Israel are doing to Iran? It's absolutely nothing like an equal fight and to make any implication to that end is hugely disingenuous.
Iran are lashing out at anything they can with anything they can which is unacceptable and should rightly be condemned but I hope you aren't trying to make out that Israel are limiting themselves to military targets in both Iran and Lebanon?
Turkey are much more capable military than Iran, Israel would have a hard time in any proper conflict.
SB [Post edited 7 Apr 20:45]
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| Avatar - M101 - Pinwheel Galaxy |
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| Israel jumping the gun after the deranged orange senile toddler's latest rant on 20:47 - Apr 7 with 833 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Israel jumping the gun after the deranged orange senile toddler's latest rant on 20:40 - Apr 7 by StokieBlue |
You think that's fighting back on an equal level to what Israel are doing to Iran? It's absolutely nothing like an equal fight and to make any implication to that end is hugely disingenuous.
Iran are lashing out at anything they can with anything they can which is unacceptable and should rightly be condemned but I hope you aren't trying to make out that Israel are limiting themselves to military targets in both Iran and Lebanon?
Turkey are much more capable military than Iran, Israel would have a hard time in any proper conflict.
SB [Post edited 7 Apr 20:45]
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You said "realistically fight back". You've since added "on an equal level". So my reply was not disingenuous.
Regardless, Iran is a major military power. Especially in the region. Ranked 16th globally. Turkey is ranked 9th. It's not rockets against bows and arrows Stokie. Iran are more than capable of fighting back (which is what you said in your op) and capable of inflicting major damage. Even with Israel having their Iron Dome.
They also have their proxies like Hezbollah.
edit Iran are ranked 16th and Israel are ranked 15th, so if anyone is being disingenuous it's you. [Post edited 7 Apr 20:53]
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| Israel jumping the gun after the deranged orange senile toddler's latest rant on 20:56 - Apr 7 with 787 views | StokieBlue |
| Israel jumping the gun after the deranged orange senile toddler's latest rant on 20:47 - Apr 7 by GlasgowBlue |
You said "realistically fight back". You've since added "on an equal level". So my reply was not disingenuous.
Regardless, Iran is a major military power. Especially in the region. Ranked 16th globally. Turkey is ranked 9th. It's not rockets against bows and arrows Stokie. Iran are more than capable of fighting back (which is what you said in your op) and capable of inflicting major damage. Even with Israel having their Iron Dome.
They also have their proxies like Hezbollah.
edit Iran are ranked 16th and Israel are ranked 15th, so if anyone is being disingenuous it's you. [Post edited 7 Apr 20:53]
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They aren't "realistically fighting back", they are lobbing missiles in the hope that some get through. Realistically fighting back is intercepting planes before they can bomb targets, aerial dogfights between air forces and not surrendering total air superiority over your own country.
That ranking is based on sheer level of missiles and planes, they have many but none of them are anywhere near as advanced as what Israel and the US are fielding. Israel is 15th in that list but they have total domination over Iranian skies and pretty decent protection against Iranian missiles - Iran has neither of those things which highlights how skewed those rankings are towards land forces and quantity.
Yes they can cause damage but it's not on the scale that Israel can to Iran which is what Turkey would be more able to do.
Iran do have proxies but once again the damage they cause is not symmetric. Israel has essentially seized southern Lebanon, something they wouldn't be able to do if there was any form of parity at all.
SB
Edit: Looking even deeper into the rankings Iran is totally skewed by having the 2nd highest gas reserves, 3rd highest oil reserves, 3rd highest gas production, 9th highest oil production and the 17th highest population - the rankings take far more into account than simple military strength when calculating the power ranking.
https://www.globalfirepower.co [Post edited 7 Apr 21:08]
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| Israel jumping the gun after the deranged orange senile toddler's latest rant on 21:06 - Apr 7 with 742 views | eirannach_gorm |
| Israel jumping the gun after the deranged orange senile toddler's latest rant on 20:47 - Apr 7 by GlasgowBlue |
You said "realistically fight back". You've since added "on an equal level". So my reply was not disingenuous.
Regardless, Iran is a major military power. Especially in the region. Ranked 16th globally. Turkey is ranked 9th. It's not rockets against bows and arrows Stokie. Iran are more than capable of fighting back (which is what you said in your op) and capable of inflicting major damage. Even with Israel having their Iron Dome.
They also have their proxies like Hezbollah.
edit Iran are ranked 16th and Israel are ranked 15th, so if anyone is being disingenuous it's you. [Post edited 7 Apr 20:53]
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As we are on the subject of being disingenuous, you have clearly ignored the 100% support for the Israeli military from the number one military power in the world.
Edit to clarify the point. [Post edited 7 Apr 21:10]
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| Israel jumping the gun after the deranged orange senile toddler's latest rant on 21:23 - Apr 7 with 679 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Israel jumping the gun after the deranged orange senile toddler's latest rant on 20:56 - Apr 7 by StokieBlue |
They aren't "realistically fighting back", they are lobbing missiles in the hope that some get through. Realistically fighting back is intercepting planes before they can bomb targets, aerial dogfights between air forces and not surrendering total air superiority over your own country.
That ranking is based on sheer level of missiles and planes, they have many but none of them are anywhere near as advanced as what Israel and the US are fielding. Israel is 15th in that list but they have total domination over Iranian skies and pretty decent protection against Iranian missiles - Iran has neither of those things which highlights how skewed those rankings are towards land forces and quantity.
Yes they can cause damage but it's not on the scale that Israel can to Iran which is what Turkey would be more able to do.
Iran do have proxies but once again the damage they cause is not symmetric. Israel has essentially seized southern Lebanon, something they wouldn't be able to do if there was any form of parity at all.
SB
Edit: Looking even deeper into the rankings Iran is totally skewed by having the 2nd highest gas reserves, 3rd highest oil reserves, 3rd highest gas production, 9th highest oil production and the 17th highest population - the rankings take far more into account than simple military strength when calculating the power ranking.
https://www.globalfirepower.co [Post edited 7 Apr 21:08]
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Look SB you made a silly bloody statement without check evidence. Something you criticise others for.
Total Military Personnel: Israel 669,500 Iran 1,180,000
Tanks: Israel 1,300 Iran 2,675
Vehicles: Israel 62,380 Iran 75,939
Self-Propelled Artillery: Israel 323 Iran 424
Towed Artillery: Israel 171 Iran 1,803
Rocket Artillery: Israel 228 Iran 1,550
Aircraft: Israel 597 Iran 551
Naval Forces: Israel 82 Iran 109
Iran can certainly fight back. People won't think less of you for admitting you are wrong SB. [Post edited 7 Apr 21:25]
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| Israel jumping the gun after the deranged orange senile toddler's latest rant on 22:08 - Apr 7 with 607 views | StokieBlue |
| Israel jumping the gun after the deranged orange senile toddler's latest rant on 21:23 - Apr 7 by GlasgowBlue |
Look SB you made a silly bloody statement without check evidence. Something you criticise others for.
Total Military Personnel: Israel 669,500 Iran 1,180,000
Tanks: Israel 1,300 Iran 2,675
Vehicles: Israel 62,380 Iran 75,939
Self-Propelled Artillery: Israel 323 Iran 424
Towed Artillery: Israel 171 Iran 1,803
Rocket Artillery: Israel 228 Iran 1,550
Aircraft: Israel 597 Iran 551
Naval Forces: Israel 82 Iran 109
Iran can certainly fight back. People won't think less of you for admitting you are wrong SB. [Post edited 7 Apr 21:25]
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I'm not wrong though and you're acting weird again which is unfortunate and I'm not really sure what your motive is. I know these numbers but I also know the context which you don't seem to be considering.
The context which is that Israel and Turkey both have have more modern equipment that Iran. If your statement was true then Israel wouldn't be able to fly into Iran whenever they like and do whatever they like. It would be an even fight which it clearly isn't.
Military personal - irrelevant, there is no ground war.
Tanks - old and irrelevant.
Vehicles - old and irrelevant.
Artillery - mostly irrelevant except the straights of Hormuz.
Aircraft - insanely skewed. Israeli jets are modern and supported by US missiles, Iranian jets are old and outdated and no match at all, hence none are flying.
Naval forces - most of Iran's are smaller boats but Israel doesn't really have a navy either so this is fair.
All you've done is look at raw numbers and made a statement that is false and then said I'm wrong. To use an example, it's like saying Arsenal and Colchester are evenly matched as they both have 11 players. It's makes no sense as context isn't included.
My original statement was that Turkey would put up much more of an equal fight and I stand by that. I also think it's true that Iran can't realistically put up a fight as the total air superiority of the Israeli forces shows.
I'm definitely leaving it there as I don't want to be led into having an argument.
SB
Edit: For some more context, the most modern fighter jet the Iranians have is the MiG 29 which was designed in 1977 and they only have a few dozen of these. For comparison, Israel has 48 F35 fighters which incorporate stealth technology and were purchased in 2017. It also has numerous other modern US jets. [Post edited 7 Apr 22:18]
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| Israel jumping the gun after the deranged orange senile toddler's latest rant on 22:42 - Apr 7 with 502 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Israel jumping the gun after the deranged orange senile toddler's latest rant on 21:23 - Apr 7 by GlasgowBlue |
Look SB you made a silly bloody statement without check evidence. Something you criticise others for.
Total Military Personnel: Israel 669,500 Iran 1,180,000
Tanks: Israel 1,300 Iran 2,675
Vehicles: Israel 62,380 Iran 75,939
Self-Propelled Artillery: Israel 323 Iran 424
Towed Artillery: Israel 171 Iran 1,803
Rocket Artillery: Israel 228 Iran 1,550
Aircraft: Israel 597 Iran 551
Naval Forces: Israel 82 Iran 109
Iran can certainly fight back. People won't think less of you for admitting you are wrong SB. [Post edited 7 Apr 21:25]
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Something about nuclear weapons....! |  |
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| Israel jumping the gun after the deranged orange senile toddler's latest rant on 14:04 - Apr 8 with 289 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| Israel jumping the gun after the deranged orange senile toddler's latest rant on 21:06 - Apr 7 by eirannach_gorm |
As we are on the subject of being disingenuous, you have clearly ignored the 100% support for the Israeli military from the number one military power in the world.
Edit to clarify the point. [Post edited 7 Apr 21:10]
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And yet Iran had enough firepower to close one of the world’s busiest shipping lanes. The reason Trump was desperate to get NATO or others to deploy to the Straights is because US intelligence would have been well aware that it was too dangerous to deploy the US fleet there. You can’t compare the militaries of Israel and Iran as they were built for different purposes. Iran has focussed on missile and drone capabilities- in huge volume. This is absolutely a win for them, economic warfare, and had it gone on much longer the Gulf states would have been in real peril with depletion of their anti missile/drone capabilities.
Iran’s attack on Israel during their brief conflict in 2024 was of a scale large than anything Russia has managed in Ukraine. However, Iran have pretty much united the region against them, so much of their swarm was intercepted over neighbouring countries before getting anywhere near Israel. [Post edited 8 Apr 15:05]
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| Israel jumping the gun after the deranged orange senile toddler's latest rant on 14:38 - Apr 8 with 262 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Israel jumping the gun after the deranged orange senile toddler's latest rant on 14:04 - Apr 8 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
And yet Iran had enough firepower to close one of the world’s busiest shipping lanes. The reason Trump was desperate to get NATO or others to deploy to the Straights is because US intelligence would have been well aware that it was too dangerous to deploy the US fleet there. You can’t compare the militaries of Israel and Iran as they were built for different purposes. Iran has focussed on missile and drone capabilities- in huge volume. This is absolutely a win for them, economic warfare, and had it gone on much longer the Gulf states would have been in real peril with depletion of their anti missile/drone capabilities.
Iran’s attack on Israel during their brief conflict in 2024 was of a scale large than anything Russia has managed in Ukraine. However, Iran have pretty much united the region against them, so much of their swarm was intercepted over neighbouring countries before getting anywhere near Israel. [Post edited 8 Apr 15:05]
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Iran have been a major military power in the region for several decades. They have funded Hamas, Hezbollah, Palestinian Islamic Jihad and the Houthis. The have murdered tens of thousands of their own people in the first couple of months of this year. Yet for some odd reason there are people trying to portray them as plucky underdogs. | |
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| Israel jumping the gun after the deranged orange senile toddler's latest rant on 14:45 - Apr 8 with 242 views | StokieBlue |
| Israel jumping the gun after the deranged orange senile toddler's latest rant on 14:04 - Apr 8 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
And yet Iran had enough firepower to close one of the world’s busiest shipping lanes. The reason Trump was desperate to get NATO or others to deploy to the Straights is because US intelligence would have been well aware that it was too dangerous to deploy the US fleet there. You can’t compare the militaries of Israel and Iran as they were built for different purposes. Iran has focussed on missile and drone capabilities- in huge volume. This is absolutely a win for them, economic warfare, and had it gone on much longer the Gulf states would have been in real peril with depletion of their anti missile/drone capabilities.
Iran’s attack on Israel during their brief conflict in 2024 was of a scale large than anything Russia has managed in Ukraine. However, Iran have pretty much united the region against them, so much of their swarm was intercepted over neighbouring countries before getting anywhere near Israel. [Post edited 8 Apr 15:05]
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As has been pointed out by many military commentators, you don't need much military power to close the straits. The geographical advantages of the rocky coastline combined with fast suicide boats or artillery is more than enough to close them. It's an incredibly low tech requirement which the US should have been much more switched on to but it's certainly not any form of equivalence in overall military strength. It is a massive economic weapon though.
In reality they are also closed because the thread of attack is enough to make insurance impossible to acquire so ships simply don't try and pass through.
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| Israel jumping the gun after the deranged orange senile toddler's latest rant on 14:52 - Apr 8 with 219 views | StokieBlue |
| Israel jumping the gun after the deranged orange senile toddler's latest rant on 14:38 - Apr 8 by GlasgowBlue |
Iran have been a major military power in the region for several decades. They have funded Hamas, Hezbollah, Palestinian Islamic Jihad and the Houthis. The have murdered tens of thousands of their own people in the first couple of months of this year. Yet for some odd reason there are people trying to portray them as plucky underdogs. |
I feel that is once again disingenuous GB.
Nobody said they are "plucky underdogs", they are however a miliary power far below Israel and the US in what matters (air superiority in this case). You seem determined to make people think this is a fair fight where Iran stood a chance of causing major damage and it simply wasn't the case outside economic damage which they have maximised.
Nobody mentioned their internal murders of protestors which are horrible but absolutely nothing to do with the conversation being had around conventional military arms.
SB
Edit: Removed the last bit, I really don't want an argument and there is no need to be harsh as it'll result in one. [Post edited 8 Apr 15:19]
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| Avatar - M101 - Pinwheel Galaxy |
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| Israel jumping the gun after the deranged orange senile toddler's latest rant on 14:54 - Apr 8 with 211 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| Israel jumping the gun after the deranged orange senile toddler's latest rant on 14:45 - Apr 8 by StokieBlue |
As has been pointed out by many military commentators, you don't need much military power to close the straits. The geographical advantages of the rocky coastline combined with fast suicide boats or artillery is more than enough to close them. It's an incredibly low tech requirement which the US should have been much more switched on to but it's certainly not any form of equivalence in overall military strength. It is a massive economic weapon though.
In reality they are also closed because the thread of attack is enough to make insurance impossible to acquire so ships simply don't try and pass through.
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That last bit isn’t correct though - insurance is available and has been taken up but it’s simply too risky for ships to pass several cargo shops and tankers have been hit. To date there’s been movement of (mainly non western shipping).
Volume is military power though, the Gulf states would not be able to shut the straights in the way Iran have. Technology doesn’t always equate to military superiority, the Ukrainians have been out in the Gulf states demonstrating some incredibly low tech counter capabilities for drones and missiles (and has been a welcome financial boost for them). | | | |
| Israel jumping the gun after the deranged orange senile toddler's latest rant on 15:03 - Apr 8 with 192 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| Israel jumping the gun after the deranged orange senile toddler's latest rant on 14:52 - Apr 8 by StokieBlue |
I feel that is once again disingenuous GB.
Nobody said they are "plucky underdogs", they are however a miliary power far below Israel and the US in what matters (air superiority in this case). You seem determined to make people think this is a fair fight where Iran stood a chance of causing major damage and it simply wasn't the case outside economic damage which they have maximised.
Nobody mentioned their internal murders of protestors which are horrible but absolutely nothing to do with the conversation being had around conventional military arms.
SB
Edit: Removed the last bit, I really don't want an argument and there is no need to be harsh as it'll result in one. [Post edited 8 Apr 15:19]
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“ this is a fair fight where Iran stood a chance of causing major damage and it simply wasn't the case outside economic damage which they have maximised.”
I don’t see the relevance of this, can you explain? In warfare you are always looking to overwhelm your foe, has there ever been a war that’s been a ‘fair fight’, and if so what do we take from that? Just looking to understand the angle? | | | |
| Israel jumping the gun after the deranged orange senile toddler's latest rant on 15:06 - Apr 8 with 183 views | StokieBlue |
| Israel jumping the gun after the deranged orange senile toddler's latest rant on 15:03 - Apr 8 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
“ this is a fair fight where Iran stood a chance of causing major damage and it simply wasn't the case outside economic damage which they have maximised.”
I don’t see the relevance of this, can you explain? In warfare you are always looking to overwhelm your foe, has there ever been a war that’s been a ‘fair fight’, and if so what do we take from that? Just looking to understand the angle? |
It was the discussion I was having with GB - he cited direct number of military assets in his analysis as an example of near equality between Israel and Iran which simply isn't the case. In those examples Iran's tech is outdated in comparison, MiG 29's don't compare to F35's etc.
As for economic damage, I don't think Iran could have imagined it being as successful as it has been.
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