| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... 18:09 - Apr 20 with 4765 views | Keno |
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| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... on 23:22 - Apr 21 with 569 views | reusersfreekicks |
| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... on 15:09 - Apr 21 by Benters |
He is an awful man is ‘no idea Kier’ he’s the most hated PM in history. |
Grow up |  | | |
| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... on 05:41 - Apr 22 with 485 views | Benters |
| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... on 23:22 - Apr 21 by reusersfreekicks |
Grow up |
He is the most disliked PM in history is that better for you oh wise one? |  |
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| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... on 06:29 - Apr 22 with 454 views | jasondozzell |
| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... on 23:18 - Apr 21 by reusersfreekicks |
Come on that's ridiculous |
It's absolutely not ridiculous.
He's lied much more in public office than Johnson did
Starmer is easily more duplicit.
The centrist dads don't want it to be true because it reveals that their judgement is dire but it's true. |  | | |
| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... on 06:29 - Apr 22 with 453 views | jasondozzell |
| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... on 05:41 - Apr 22 by Benters |
He is the most disliked PM in history is that better for you oh wise one? |
Benters is correct. | | | |
| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... on 08:04 - Apr 22 with 418 views | Benters |
| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... on 06:29 - Apr 22 by jasondozzell |
Benters is correct. |
The leftie bf won’t have it buh. | |
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| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... on 08:40 - Apr 22 with 390 views | DJR |
Mark Sedwill, who was cabinet secretary from 2018 to 2020, says in a letter to the Times that the hearing showed “the calm integrity and intelligence which have characterised [Robbins’] distinguished career of public service”. Sedwill said Robbins should get his job back.
"The prime minister appointed Peter Mandelson against official advice, announced that appointment without security vetting having been completed and claims that he would have changed his mind had he been told that the vetting process had raised the concerns about Mandelson’s previous conduct of which he was already well aware.
As Robbins explained yesterday, the question for him was not whether to tell the prime minister what he already knew, but whether those issues could be mitigated enough to allow Mandelson access to the secret intelligence necessary to do his job. He made the professional judgment that they could. Unwisely as it turned out, he shouldered his responsibilities rather than shunting them.
The prime minister should retract his accusations against Olly Robbins and reinstate him to the job the country needs him to do of getting the diplomatic service into shape for the second quarter of the 21st century." [Post edited 22 Apr 8:43]
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| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... on 08:47 - Apr 22 with 378 views | DJR |
| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... on 22:32 - Apr 20 by Nthsuffolkblue |
Unless he were CEO and Chairman of the local football club! |
Disgraceful to hear Emily Thornberry say on Sky that Stamer was right to sack Robbins.
She is chair of the committee so should keep her opinions to herself not least because the committee hasn't finished its deliberations and her view may not reflect that of the committee as a whole.
She is also a lawyer and so just should not be expressing her opinion on an employment issue when she does not know the full facts.
Maybe she's angling for a place in government. [Post edited 22 Apr 8:48]
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| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... on 08:56 - Apr 22 with 358 views | DanTheMan |
| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... on 17:00 - Apr 21 by DJR |
"hated" is the wrong word but this from Full Fact is rather damning.
https://fullfact.org/politics/
"Last September Gideon Skinner, senior director of UK politics at Ipsos, said that Mr Starmer’s “personal satisfaction ratings are the worst for any Prime Minister polled by Ipsos since we first started asking the question in 1977”.
This was based on Ipsos polling which had found 13% of voters in September said they were satisfied with Mr Starmer. In the November edition of Ipsos’ ‘Political Monitor’, 13% were again satisfied with Mr Starmer.
Earlier this month, Ipsos reported Mr Starmer’s satisfaction rating had improved slightly in January, and was at 15%, though a 77% dissatisfaction rating meant overall Mr Starmer’s net satisfaction score was -62. Mr Skinner said satisfaction with the Prime Minister “remains historically low”.
Our analysis of the Ipsos data suggests that on all three ways of examining the figures—satisfaction, dissatisfaction and net satisfaction—Mr Starmer’s scores at some points in recent months have been lower than other PMs since 1977.
There are a number of other polls to look at, however, which give a mixed picture. Some suggest Mr Starmer’s polling may not be the worst for a PM and Liz Truss fared worse." [Post edited 21 Apr 17:01]
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I never said he was liked, but worst in history? Even that snippet has Truss as coming out worse which isn't surprising. |  |
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| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... on 09:14 - Apr 22 with 327 views | DJR |
| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... on 08:56 - Apr 22 by DanTheMan |
I never said he was liked, but worst in history? Even that snippet has Truss as coming out worse which isn't surprising. |
I included the last paragraph for balance, but as I said, the polling on him is pretty damning.
Part of the problem is that he has alienated many who would naturally be Labour voters because of a futile attempt to appeal to Reform voters.
Indeed, if the centre/left vote wasn't split roughly evenly between three parties, Labour and Starmer would be in a much stronger position.
[Post edited 22 Apr 9:29]
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| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... on 09:50 - Apr 22 with 287 views | ArnoldMoorhen |
Has Yvette Cooper resigned yet?
This is the point that is being missed, and that I haven't heard elsewhere.
If the Foreign Office messed up the appointment process of Mandelaon so badly, by failing to inform the Prime Minister that he had failed his security vetting, that Olly Robbins had to resign, then the old convention of "Ministerial Accountability" comes into play.
The Minister is responsible for the Department, and when the Department messes up badly, the Minister resigns.
Yet Yvette Cooper is still in post.
We all *suspect* that maybe it wasn't the Foreign Office that messed this up, but that is part of a binary flowchart branch:
Either the FCO messed up, and Cooper should resign.
Or the FCO was over-ruled, Cooper knows that Number 10 is covering something up and sacked her Senior Civil Servant unfairly. In which case, she should resign.
The Leader of the Opposition focused on the wrong target, in my opinion.
Focus on Cooper and get her to appear before the Foreign Affairs Committee after she has resigned, and the truth will out.
If Cooper were to do the honourable thing right now, and make a principled "I can no longer stand by..." speech, she could even find herself in pole position for the leadership, and become PM, should she want it. |  | | |
| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... on 09:53 - Apr 22 with 280 views | Keno |
| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... on 09:50 - Apr 22 by ArnoldMoorhen |
Has Yvette Cooper resigned yet?
This is the point that is being missed, and that I haven't heard elsewhere.
If the Foreign Office messed up the appointment process of Mandelaon so badly, by failing to inform the Prime Minister that he had failed his security vetting, that Olly Robbins had to resign, then the old convention of "Ministerial Accountability" comes into play.
The Minister is responsible for the Department, and when the Department messes up badly, the Minister resigns.
Yet Yvette Cooper is still in post.
We all *suspect* that maybe it wasn't the Foreign Office that messed this up, but that is part of a binary flowchart branch:
Either the FCO messed up, and Cooper should resign.
Or the FCO was over-ruled, Cooper knows that Number 10 is covering something up and sacked her Senior Civil Servant unfairly. In which case, she should resign.
The Leader of the Opposition focused on the wrong target, in my opinion.
Focus on Cooper and get her to appear before the Foreign Affairs Committee after she has resigned, and the truth will out.
If Cooper were to do the honourable thing right now, and make a principled "I can no longer stand by..." speech, she could even find herself in pole position for the leadership, and become PM, should she want it. |
Geoffrey Howe speech when he resigned was linked to being 'savaged by a dead sheep'
what would the analogy if Cooper does it? | |
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| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... on 10:02 - Apr 22 with 268 views | ArnoldMoorhen |
| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... on 09:53 - Apr 22 by Keno |
Geoffrey Howe speech when he resigned was linked to being 'savaged by a dead sheep'
what would the analogy if Cooper does it? |
"Torn apart by a livid meerkat"? | | | |
| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... on 10:07 - Apr 22 with 256 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... on 09:53 - Apr 22 by Keno |
Geoffrey Howe speech when he resigned was linked to being 'savaged by a dead sheep'
what would the analogy if Cooper does it? |
Have to correct you there Keno. His speaking style was compared to be savaged by a dead sheep by Denis Healey in 1978.
His 1990 resignation speech was described as a "dead sheep" turning into a "roaring lion" by the Guardian. |  |
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| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... on 10:09 - Apr 22 with 242 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... on 09:50 - Apr 22 by ArnoldMoorhen |
Has Yvette Cooper resigned yet?
This is the point that is being missed, and that I haven't heard elsewhere.
If the Foreign Office messed up the appointment process of Mandelaon so badly, by failing to inform the Prime Minister that he had failed his security vetting, that Olly Robbins had to resign, then the old convention of "Ministerial Accountability" comes into play.
The Minister is responsible for the Department, and when the Department messes up badly, the Minister resigns.
Yet Yvette Cooper is still in post.
We all *suspect* that maybe it wasn't the Foreign Office that messed this up, but that is part of a binary flowchart branch:
Either the FCO messed up, and Cooper should resign.
Or the FCO was over-ruled, Cooper knows that Number 10 is covering something up and sacked her Senior Civil Servant unfairly. In which case, she should resign.
The Leader of the Opposition focused on the wrong target, in my opinion.
Focus on Cooper and get her to appear before the Foreign Affairs Committee after she has resigned, and the truth will out.
If Cooper were to do the honourable thing right now, and make a principled "I can no longer stand by..." speech, she could even find herself in pole position for the leadership, and become PM, should she want it. |
Wasn't Lammy FS at the time? | |
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| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... on 10:10 - Apr 22 with 234 views | Keno |
| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... on 10:07 - Apr 22 by GlasgowBlue |
Have to correct you there Keno. His speaking style was compared to be savaged by a dead sheep by Denis Healey in 1978.
His 1990 resignation speech was described as a "dead sheep" turning into a "roaring lion" by the Guardian. |
I didn’t know that, I sit corrected
You can still be on Mount Rushmore tho | |
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| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... on 10:15 - Apr 22 with 220 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... on 05:41 - Apr 22 by Benters |
He is the most disliked PM in history is that better for you oh wise one? |
Not necessarily. Chamberlain? Eden? There was life before opinion polls. Even with polls considerably more people wanted Johnson out than do Starmer. He’s deeply unpopular for sure, but there’s very little in it in recent times, although it makes for a punchy soundbite I suppose. Lies, damn lies and statistics and all that. |  |
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| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... on 10:44 - Apr 22 with 177 views | giant_stow |
| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... on 09:14 - Apr 22 by DJR |
I included the last paragraph for balance, but as I said, the polling on him is pretty damning.
Part of the problem is that he has alienated many who would naturally be Labour voters because of a futile attempt to appeal to Reform voters.
Indeed, if the centre/left vote wasn't split roughly evenly between three parties, Labour and Starmer would be in a much stronger position.
[Post edited 22 Apr 9:29]
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I would be nervous about making comparisons with past political polling, as the we're now in a multi-party landscape. So for instance, Starmer is hated by right (naturally) but also hated by the left (which might not have been there or so prevalent a decade or two back). Basically, I think any PM is going to be unpopular now. |  |
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| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... on 10:58 - Apr 22 with 150 views | jasondozzell |
| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... on 10:44 - Apr 22 by giant_stow |
I would be nervous about making comparisons with past political polling, as the we're now in a multi-party landscape. So for instance, Starmer is hated by right (naturally) but also hated by the left (which might not have been there or so prevalent a decade or two back). Basically, I think any PM is going to be unpopular now. |
Think that's very reductive and an excuse the centrists and commentariat will use to spare their blushes - the reality is they got conned by some of the nastiest people in politics and many actually supported it because they wanted their clout back.
'Britain is ungovernable ' - *throws hands up in air.* This hot on the heels of - 'everything is fine again because we have sensible forensic people in charge'. | | | |
| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... on 11:10 - Apr 22 with 130 views | giant_stow |
| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... on 10:58 - Apr 22 by jasondozzell |
Think that's very reductive and an excuse the centrists and commentariat will use to spare their blushes - the reality is they got conned by some of the nastiest people in politics and many actually supported it because they wanted their clout back.
'Britain is ungovernable ' - *throws hands up in air.* This hot on the heels of - 'everything is fine again because we have sensible forensic people in charge'. |
Personally, I feel no guilt or embarrassment over my vote last time - things are still a lot better than they were, so nothing to explain away. I think what I say above is basically true - are we not a multi-party country now? Are the polls not split with 4 or 5 parties in the teens or low 20s? And don't all sides pretty much hate each other? | |
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| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... on 11:28 - Apr 22 with 100 views | DJR |
| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... on 10:44 - Apr 22 by giant_stow |
I would be nervous about making comparisons with past political polling, as the we're now in a multi-party landscape. So for instance, Starmer is hated by right (naturally) but also hated by the left (which might not have been there or so prevalent a decade or two back). Basically, I think any PM is going to be unpopular now. |
But we're in a multi-party landscape because Labour deliberately stood for nothing and so only got 33% of the vote at a time when the Tories were deeply unpopular.
And as has been said before (and was said by Anthony Seldon last night on the World Tonight), Starmer had no plan for government.
The blame for the mess lies with Starmer, McSweeney and Labour Together who appeared to be only concerned with taking factional control of the party.
And the party isn't in a position to make a clean break because of the following from Politico.
"Nearly all the MPs credited with building Labour Together since 2017 — Reeves, Wes Streeting, Shabana Mahmood, Steve Reed, Bridget Phillipson, Lucy Powell and Lisa Nandy — now sit in Starmer’s top team."
Even Angela Rayner received £38,000 in donations from Labour Together.
It really is a disgrace and a shambles with Starmer a lame duck but Labour MPs reluctant to pull the trigger and no obvious successor.
EDIT: and it's all well and good to talk about the left but the people on the left who are now voting for other parties (such as the Greens) are not hard left but instead people disillusioned by a party which treated them with contempt, and assumed they would carry on voting Labour regardless. [Post edited 22 Apr 11:31]
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| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... on 11:31 - Apr 22 with 91 views | jasondozzell |
| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... on 11:10 - Apr 22 by giant_stow |
Personally, I feel no guilt or embarrassment over my vote last time - things are still a lot better than they were, so nothing to explain away. I think what I say above is basically true - are we not a multi-party country now? Are the polls not split with 4 or 5 parties in the teens or low 20s? And don't all sides pretty much hate each other? |
I can't get past 'things are still a lot better than they were'. In what way?
We're in crisis. We're getting Farage because of this government.
Centrism/liberalism is morally bankrupt. | | | |
| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... on 11:35 - Apr 22 with 82 views | giant_stow |
| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... on 11:28 - Apr 22 by DJR |
But we're in a multi-party landscape because Labour deliberately stood for nothing and so only got 33% of the vote at a time when the Tories were deeply unpopular.
And as has been said before (and was said by Anthony Seldon last night on the World Tonight), Starmer had no plan for government.
The blame for the mess lies with Starmer, McSweeney and Labour Together who appeared to be only concerned with taking factional control of the party.
And the party isn't in a position to make a clean break because of the following from Politico.
"Nearly all the MPs credited with building Labour Together since 2017 — Reeves, Wes Streeting, Shabana Mahmood, Steve Reed, Bridget Phillipson, Lucy Powell and Lisa Nandy — now sit in Starmer’s top team."
Even Angela Rayner received £38,000 in donations from Labour Together.
It really is a disgrace and a shambles with Starmer a lame duck but Labour MPs reluctant to pull the trigger and no obvious successor.
EDIT: and it's all well and good to talk about the left but the people on the left who are now voting for other parties (such as the Greens) are not hard left but instead people disillusioned by a party which treated them with contempt, and assumed they would carry on voting Labour regardless. [Post edited 22 Apr 11:31]
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I wasn't making a value judgement on the state of politics - more recognising its current shape. I also didn't use the term 'hard left' btw, or comment on whether people should support parties more on the left. [Post edited 22 Apr 11:38]
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| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... on 11:37 - Apr 22 with 76 views | giant_stow |
| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... on 11:31 - Apr 22 by jasondozzell |
I can't get past 'things are still a lot better than they were'. In what way?
We're in crisis. We're getting Farage because of this government.
Centrism/liberalism is morally bankrupt. |
I really wasn't meaning to get into a defence of Labour so far, but I do think things are better than when the Tories were in power - do you not agree?
In the interests of speed, here's a link: https://fullfact.org/governmen | |
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| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... on 11:45 - Apr 22 with 54 views | jasondozzell |
| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... on 11:37 - Apr 22 by giant_stow |
I really wasn't meaning to get into a defence of Labour so far, but I do think things are better than when the Tories were in power - do you not agree?
In the interests of speed, here's a link: https://fullfact.org/governmen |
It probably won't surprise you that no, I do not agree.
The Labour government are a disaster for the country. No vision, no plan, no principles.
Margaret Hodge the anti corruption Czar on newsnight saying there's nothing wrong with asking if there are jobs for friends re the Doyle revelations.
Reform here we come.
And all because a load of people with kitchen islands in Zone 2 didn't like having their noses put out joint. | | | |
| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... on 11:47 - Apr 22 with 48 views | DJR |
| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... on 11:35 - Apr 22 by giant_stow |
I wasn't making a value judgement on the state of politics - more recognising its current shape. I also didn't use the term 'hard left' btw, or comment on whether people should support parties more on the left. [Post edited 22 Apr 11:38]
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No worries. [Post edited 22 Apr 11:49]
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