| Gary Stevenson's channel 4 documentary 16:45 - Jul 6 with 8625 views | J2BLUE |
Being shown Wednesday at 9pm. For anyone who may not have seen anything about it.
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| Gary Stevenson's channel 4 documentary on 09:18 - Jul 7 with 3512 views | DJR |
I don't really know anything about him but I saw him interviewed on Channel 4 News last night and can't say I was wholly convinced by him.
Then again, I am always sceptical about people who come to public prominence through YouTube. [Post edited 7 Jul 9:21]
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| Gary Stevenson's channel 4 documentary on 09:27 - Jul 7 with 3444 views | Steve_M |
| Gary Stevenson's channel 4 documentary on 09:18 - Jul 7 by DJR |
I don't really know anything about him but I saw him interviewed on Channel 4 News last night and can't say I was wholly convinced by him.
Then again, I am always sceptical about people who come to public prominence through YouTube. [Post edited 7 Jul 9:21]
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He's a bullsh1ter, decent record as a trader but not exceptional. Instead he claims he was a star at, I think, Citibank. The FT did some digging and his recollections were not matched by those of his colleagues.
Comes out with simple populism for which there is a ready audience. Not to say that everything he says is wrong but a man to be treated with a healthy degree of scepticism. |  |
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| Gary Stevenson's channel 4 documentary on 09:41 - Jul 7 with 3378 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| Gary Stevenson's channel 4 documentary on 09:27 - Jul 7 by Steve_M |
He's a bullsh1ter, decent record as a trader but not exceptional. Instead he claims he was a star at, I think, Citibank. The FT did some digging and his recollections were not matched by those of his colleagues.
Comes out with simple populism for which there is a ready audience. Not to say that everything he says is wrong but a man to be treated with a healthy degree of scepticism. |
That’s how I see him (I.e. populist) in that whilst I generally agree his sentiments he offers very little in practical solutions. Whilst in moral terms of course the HNW should pay more tax, in reality (and as evidenced in countries that have specific wealth taxes) they raise a relatively small amount which isn’t going to materially improve our fiscal position.
For me the main western issue is one of demographics and the reducing number of tax paying workers funding an increase of pensioners. The maths simply doesn’t work, and increasing the working population through immigration simply kicks the can down the road. It’s the most fundamental issue which politicians are too scared to address due to pensioners being a growing voting bloc. We should honour current pensions, but long term it needs to be shifted to the private sector and be fully funded rather than the current state Ponzi schemes (if you started an investment fund on that basis you’d literally be jailed!). [Post edited 7 Jul 10:55]
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| Gary Stevenson's channel 4 documentary on 09:44 - Jul 7 with 3365 views | Bent_double |
I've watched a few of his videos on youtube, I find his delivery very slow and boring. He seems to want to come across as an honest, working class bloke who's made a load of money doing a job he wasn't supposed to do, now wanting to 'help' everyone else.
You could probably condense his 20 minute videos into 5 minutes without losing anything. |  |
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| Gary Stevenson's channel 4 documentary on 09:50 - Jul 7 with 3317 views | MVBlue |
| Gary Stevenson's channel 4 documentary on 09:27 - Jul 7 by Steve_M |
He's a bullsh1ter, decent record as a trader but not exceptional. Instead he claims he was a star at, I think, Citibank. The FT did some digging and his recollections were not matched by those of his colleagues.
Comes out with simple populism for which there is a ready audience. Not to say that everything he says is wrong but a man to be treated with a healthy degree of scepticism. |
His 'most successful trader' line is a pure attention grabber, hes learned he needs to use these soundbites to get attention and it worked. The truth is hes a clever mathematician who put all his focus into his studies when he realised he was on a bad path but was inspired to make good. He got onto a trading floor and worked out the system. That burned him out despite not doing the partying. But what he saw and learned was the bond markets and the super rich moving their money round the markets, while the economy itself started flatlining, so saw that down the road is Governments having their services, property and systems acquired by the markets as they are sold off, and obtained by the super rich. He has correctly predicted the continuous downward trend of UK and wants to wake people up to it as well as seeing his financial advantages from knowing this generate him income. As he says it's unlikely he will be affected, but having a conscience unlike others, he wants people to really grasp what is happening. The UK is going to lose much of its benefits in the coming years. All he suggest is a 2% tax on the super Rich. Its pretty logical, because all the money and investments have already flowed up to them and continues to. [Post edited 7 Jul 9:51]
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| Gary Stevenson's channel 4 documentary on 09:53 - Jul 7 with 3281 views | MVBlue |
| Gary Stevenson's channel 4 documentary on 09:44 - Jul 7 by Bent_double |
I've watched a few of his videos on youtube, I find his delivery very slow and boring. He seems to want to come across as an honest, working class bloke who's made a load of money doing a job he wasn't supposed to do, now wanting to 'help' everyone else.
You could probably condense his 20 minute videos into 5 minutes without losing anything. |
Many of the videos are in fact teaching the general public aspects of the financial system, and that the decline is universal in stagnating wages and poor prospects being across Australia, NZ, USA, Canada, UK, Spain, France. | |
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| Gary Stevenson's channel 4 documentary on 09:53 - Jul 7 with 3270 views | Ryorry |
| Gary Stevenson's channel 4 documentary on 09:50 - Jul 7 by MVBlue |
His 'most successful trader' line is a pure attention grabber, hes learned he needs to use these soundbites to get attention and it worked. The truth is hes a clever mathematician who put all his focus into his studies when he realised he was on a bad path but was inspired to make good. He got onto a trading floor and worked out the system. That burned him out despite not doing the partying. But what he saw and learned was the bond markets and the super rich moving their money round the markets, while the economy itself started flatlining, so saw that down the road is Governments having their services, property and systems acquired by the markets as they are sold off, and obtained by the super rich. He has correctly predicted the continuous downward trend of UK and wants to wake people up to it as well as seeing his financial advantages from knowing this generate him income. As he says it's unlikely he will be affected, but having a conscience unlike others, he wants people to really grasp what is happening. The UK is going to lose much of its benefits in the coming years. All he suggest is a 2% tax on the super Rich. Its pretty logical, because all the money and investments have already flowed up to them and continues to. [Post edited 7 Jul 9:51]
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Had no idea who or what J2 was on about, thanks for the context 👍 |  |
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| Gary Stevenson's channel 4 documentary on 09:59 - Jul 7 with 3220 views | nrb1985 |
| Gary Stevenson's channel 4 documentary on 09:27 - Jul 7 by Steve_M |
He's a bullsh1ter, decent record as a trader but not exceptional. Instead he claims he was a star at, I think, Citibank. The FT did some digging and his recollections were not matched by those of his colleagues.
Comes out with simple populism for which there is a ready audience. Not to say that everything he says is wrong but a man to be treated with a healthy degree of scepticism. |
I've repeatedly said on here he talks unfettered bullsht to the less financially educated.
Bloke is an absolute pillock who as far as I can see only wants some fame and notoriety. Not at all dissimilar to Nige in that respect.
He knows full well what he's saying is mostly b0llcks but is happy to pollute the public discord to further his own ends. Cannot stand him.
As you say, he's just a populist - which is never the answer to anything. [Post edited 7 Jul 9:59]
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| Gary Stevenson's channel 4 documentary on 10:02 - Jul 7 with 3188 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| Gary Stevenson's channel 4 documentary on 09:50 - Jul 7 by MVBlue |
His 'most successful trader' line is a pure attention grabber, hes learned he needs to use these soundbites to get attention and it worked. The truth is hes a clever mathematician who put all his focus into his studies when he realised he was on a bad path but was inspired to make good. He got onto a trading floor and worked out the system. That burned him out despite not doing the partying. But what he saw and learned was the bond markets and the super rich moving their money round the markets, while the economy itself started flatlining, so saw that down the road is Governments having their services, property and systems acquired by the markets as they are sold off, and obtained by the super rich. He has correctly predicted the continuous downward trend of UK and wants to wake people up to it as well as seeing his financial advantages from knowing this generate him income. As he says it's unlikely he will be affected, but having a conscience unlike others, he wants people to really grasp what is happening. The UK is going to lose much of its benefits in the coming years. All he suggest is a 2% tax on the super Rich. Its pretty logical, because all the money and investments have already flowed up to them and continues to. [Post edited 7 Jul 9:51]
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Exactly my point it’s the flawed idea that a 2pc tax on a few hundred people is going to fundamentally change the UK. The decline of the west is due mainly to demographics and globalisation which has made the global economy more open to movement of capital and jobs. If you took the entire net worth of the billionaires in the UK (ignoring that much of it is not liquid, and held in other tax jurisdictions) you wouldn’t even fund our NHS for 1 year. Simple answers for complex issues. | | | |
| Gary Stevenson's channel 4 documentary on 10:02 - Jul 7 with 3187 views | Steve_M |
| Gary Stevenson's channel 4 documentary on 09:41 - Jul 7 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
That’s how I see him (I.e. populist) in that whilst I generally agree his sentiments he offers very little in practical solutions. Whilst in moral terms of course the HNW should pay more tax, in reality (and as evidenced in countries that have specific wealth taxes) they raise a relatively small amount which isn’t going to materially improve our fiscal position.
For me the main western issue is one of demographics and the reducing number of tax paying workers funding an increase of pensioners. The maths simply doesn’t work, and increasing the working population through immigration simply kicks the can down the road. It’s the most fundamental issue which politicians are too scared to address due to pensioners being a growing voting bloc. We should honour current pensions, but long term it needs to be shifted to the private sector and be fully funded rather than the current state Ponzi schemes (if you started an investment fund on that basis you’d literally be jailed!). [Post edited 7 Jul 10:55]
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"For me the main western issue is one of demographics and the reducing number of tax
paying workers funding an increase of pensioners"
Indeed and anyone who doesn't acknowledge this point in an argument about inequality or public spending now is being wilfully obtuse. | |
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| Gary Stevenson's channel 4 documentary on 10:17 - Jul 7 with 3099 views | nrb1985 |
| Gary Stevenson's channel 4 documentary on 10:02 - Jul 7 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
Exactly my point it’s the flawed idea that a 2pc tax on a few hundred people is going to fundamentally change the UK. The decline of the west is due mainly to demographics and globalisation which has made the global economy more open to movement of capital and jobs. If you took the entire net worth of the billionaires in the UK (ignoring that much of it is not liquid, and held in other tax jurisdictions) you wouldn’t even fund our NHS for 1 year. Simple answers for complex issues. |
I live in Switzerland where we have a wealth tax, it kind of works because most of the other major taxes are very favourable - i.e. we have low income tax, no CGT and little to no IHT depending on where you live.
But most people find ways to mitigate what they pay - usually simply by raising debt or never paying off their mortgage - so you never fully own your house, it just sits there as debt rather than asset.
As such, I will be shocked if any proposed wealth tax raises anything like the numbers being quoted in the UK currently. [Post edited 7 Jul 10:20]
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| Gary Stevenson's channel 4 documentary on 10:17 - Jul 7 with 3095 views | nrb1985 |
| Gary Stevenson's channel 4 documentary on 10:02 - Jul 7 by Steve_M |
"For me the main western issue is one of demographics and the reducing number of tax
paying workers funding an increase of pensioners"
Indeed and anyone who doesn't acknowledge this point in an argument about inequality or public spending now is being wilfully obtuse. |
inequality, public spending - or indeed immigration...
I am mildly hopeful AI will eventually go some way to plugging these gaps but that throws up a whole different set of issues too.
No easy solutions contrary to what Gary or Nige would have you believe. [Post edited 7 Jul 10:19]
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| Gary Stevenson's channel 4 documentary on 10:29 - Jul 7 with 3020 views | balcombeblue |
| Gary Stevenson's channel 4 documentary on 10:02 - Jul 7 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
Exactly my point it’s the flawed idea that a 2pc tax on a few hundred people is going to fundamentally change the UK. The decline of the west is due mainly to demographics and globalisation which has made the global economy more open to movement of capital and jobs. If you took the entire net worth of the billionaires in the UK (ignoring that much of it is not liquid, and held in other tax jurisdictions) you wouldn’t even fund our NHS for 1 year. Simple answers for complex issues. |
Really? I thought it was Thatcher's fault? | | | |
| Gary Stevenson's channel 4 documentary on 10:30 - Jul 7 with 3018 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| Gary Stevenson's channel 4 documentary on 10:17 - Jul 7 by nrb1985 |
I live in Switzerland where we have a wealth tax, it kind of works because most of the other major taxes are very favourable - i.e. we have low income tax, no CGT and little to no IHT depending on where you live.
But most people find ways to mitigate what they pay - usually simply by raising debt or never paying off their mortgage - so you never fully own your house, it just sits there as debt rather than asset.
As such, I will be shocked if any proposed wealth tax raises anything like the numbers being quoted in the UK currently. [Post edited 7 Jul 10:20]
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Indeed, even with that wealth tax however Switzerland is some way below the UK based on tax receipts as % GDP, so it’s difficult to make the argument that it’s (Swiss wealth tax) really improving the fiscal take. | | | |
| Gary Stevenson's channel 4 documentary on 10:32 - Jul 7 with 3002 views | Blue_Uprising |
| Gary Stevenson's channel 4 documentary on 10:02 - Jul 7 by Steve_M |
"For me the main western issue is one of demographics and the reducing number of tax
paying workers funding an increase of pensioners"
Indeed and anyone who doesn't acknowledge this point in an argument about inequality or public spending now is being wilfully obtuse. |
True and also the ever expanding options around healthcare which have kept us living (a great thing) and more healthy (a great thing) but with costs expanding faster than GDP.
Gary’s big point and idea is a popularisation of Thomas Piketty’s research and main point in his writings on wealth inequality.
The returns from investing capital has been shown to outweigh the returns form working, ie capital grows at a rate well above average wage growth. Those that can invest in capital (are generally) those that already have capital. So inequality in most societies across history has needed towards concentration (absent any very significant societal changes or controls).
Unfortunately the types of changes that have made significant and lasting effects on the distribution of wealth have tended to be pretty seismic - ie the two world wars and / or country wide revolution. Definitely not a great thing.
But no one is minded to make any of the types of changes that could be needed - ‘but as long as the music is playing, you’ve got to get up and dance’ is the mentality of almost all political, business and economic leaders. There is perceived to be no first mover advantage in going first on these types of policies advocated by Gary and others. |  | | |
| Gary Stevenson's channel 4 documentary on 10:54 - Jul 7 with 2904 views | J2BLUE |
| Gary Stevenson's channel 4 documentary on 09:53 - Jul 7 by Ryorry |
Had no idea who or what J2 was on about, thanks for the context 👍 |
He is well worth a watch if you are interested.
I don't agree with everything he says but it has certainly added a few pieces to the overall jigsaw picture for me.
His videos were usually discussed fairly favourably on here. | | | |
| Gary Stevenson's channel 4 documentary on 11:09 - Jul 7 with 2837 views | jasondozzell |
| Gary Stevenson's channel 4 documentary on 09:27 - Jul 7 by Steve_M |
He's a bullsh1ter, decent record as a trader but not exceptional. Instead he claims he was a star at, I think, Citibank. The FT did some digging and his recollections were not matched by those of his colleagues.
Comes out with simple populism for which there is a ready audience. Not to say that everything he says is wrong but a man to be treated with a healthy degree of scepticism. |
But isn't it healthy and good to have someone speaking out about inequality which is growing?
And his broad analysis of the wealthy hoovering up assets and therefore rentierism is correct is it not? |  | | |
| Gary Stevenson's channel 4 documentary on 11:26 - Jul 7 with 2698 views | lowhouseblue |
| Gary Stevenson's channel 4 documentary on 11:09 - Jul 7 by jasondozzell |
But isn't it healthy and good to have someone speaking out about inequality which is growing?
And his broad analysis of the wealthy hoovering up assets and therefore rentierism is correct is it not? |
in what sense is uk inequality growing?
https://commonslibrary.parliam |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Gary Stevenson's channel 4 documentary on 11:32 - Jul 7 with 2674 views | nrb1985 |
| Gary Stevenson's channel 4 documentary on 11:09 - Jul 7 by jasondozzell |
But isn't it healthy and good to have someone speaking out about inequality which is growing?
And his broad analysis of the wealthy hoovering up assets and therefore rentierism is correct is it not? |
The Wealthy hoovering up assets would be an excellent example of the unfettered bullsht I mentioned earlier.
Ps open a copy of the FT or read Bloomberg on any given day and you will see multiple articles about inequality on both sides of the pond.
Goldman also just published a huge paper on social mobility or lack of it in the UK too.
I don’t know where you have the idea nobody is talking about inequality. | | | |
| Gary Stevenson's channel 4 documentary on 11:58 - Jul 7 with 2574 views | giant_stow |
| Gary Stevenson's channel 4 documentary on 10:30 - Jul 7 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
Indeed, even with that wealth tax however Switzerland is some way below the UK based on tax receipts as % GDP, so it’s difficult to make the argument that it’s (Swiss wealth tax) really improving the fiscal take. |
be gentle with me on this SKM, but I saw some guy suggesting an idea for pensions the other day and wanted to run it past you/others who know about these things:
His idea was that the govt could invest £10,000 in share / bonds for every new born and invest it for their pensions to be claimed on retirement. All other pensions would slowly be wound down concurrently. They reckoned it would cost £7b a year to fund, but after a years, there would be savings.
Is this bollox?! |  |
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| Gary Stevenson's channel 4 documentary on 12:05 - Jul 7 with 2527 views | nrb1985 |
| Gary Stevenson's channel 4 documentary on 11:58 - Jul 7 by giant_stow |
be gentle with me on this SKM, but I saw some guy suggesting an idea for pensions the other day and wanted to run it past you/others who know about these things:
His idea was that the govt could invest £10,000 in share / bonds for every new born and invest it for their pensions to be claimed on retirement. All other pensions would slowly be wound down concurrently. They reckoned it would cost £7b a year to fund, but after a years, there would be savings.
Is this bollox?! |
Not stupid on the surface because you could reasonably expect a middle of the road multi asset class portfolio (cash, bonds, stocks etc) to grow over 65 years at ~7-8% pa in GBP.
So You'd have a lump sum at retirement of something like £800k and then you're on your own regardless of how long you live - which is a benefit to the state if you think everyone will continue to live longer.
The issue is, what income you can then generate from that lump sum will be highly dependent on where interest rates and inflation are at the time you retire - so you can end up feasibly with less income than you get now from the state pension. Noting of course the state pension is inflation protected.
Whether it makes financial sense I have no idea as I don't know what birth rates are projected to be nor how much the state pension costs us now.
But it doesn't appear silly at first glance. [Post edited 7 Jul 12:12]
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| Gary Stevenson's channel 4 documentary on 12:44 - Jul 7 with 2418 views | giant_stow |
| Gary Stevenson's channel 4 documentary on 12:05 - Jul 7 by nrb1985 |
Not stupid on the surface because you could reasonably expect a middle of the road multi asset class portfolio (cash, bonds, stocks etc) to grow over 65 years at ~7-8% pa in GBP.
So You'd have a lump sum at retirement of something like £800k and then you're on your own regardless of how long you live - which is a benefit to the state if you think everyone will continue to live longer.
The issue is, what income you can then generate from that lump sum will be highly dependent on where interest rates and inflation are at the time you retire - so you can end up feasibly with less income than you get now from the state pension. Noting of course the state pension is inflation protected.
Whether it makes financial sense I have no idea as I don't know what birth rates are projected to be nor how much the state pension costs us now.
But it doesn't appear silly at first glance. [Post edited 7 Jul 12:12]
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Thanks for the answer - interesting reading. | |
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| Gary Stevenson's channel 4 documentary on 12:47 - Jul 7 with 2401 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| Gary Stevenson's channel 4 documentary on 12:05 - Jul 7 by nrb1985 |
Not stupid on the surface because you could reasonably expect a middle of the road multi asset class portfolio (cash, bonds, stocks etc) to grow over 65 years at ~7-8% pa in GBP.
So You'd have a lump sum at retirement of something like £800k and then you're on your own regardless of how long you live - which is a benefit to the state if you think everyone will continue to live longer.
The issue is, what income you can then generate from that lump sum will be highly dependent on where interest rates and inflation are at the time you retire - so you can end up feasibly with less income than you get now from the state pension. Noting of course the state pension is inflation protected.
Whether it makes financial sense I have no idea as I don't know what birth rates are projected to be nor how much the state pension costs us now.
But it doesn't appear silly at first glance. [Post edited 7 Jul 12:12]
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Last year the state pension was the second largest expenditure ~£150bn which not only is projected to grow as more people retire, but is funded from current tax take. In effect it’s completely unfunded, unlike private pensions which obviously compound over time. Certainly that sounds like a sensible proposal, and exactly the kind of practical policy we should be talking about. When even the Scandi countries have realised state pensions in their current form are unsustainable, you know we need reform. | | | |
| Gary Stevenson's channel 4 documentary on 12:56 - Jul 7 with 2361 views | jasondozzell |
| Gary Stevenson's channel 4 documentary on 11:32 - Jul 7 by nrb1985 |
The Wealthy hoovering up assets would be an excellent example of the unfettered bullsht I mentioned earlier.
Ps open a copy of the FT or read Bloomberg on any given day and you will see multiple articles about inequality on both sides of the pond.
Goldman also just published a huge paper on social mobility or lack of it in the UK too.
I don’t know where you have the idea nobody is talking about inequality. |
But the wealthy are hoovering up assets! That's not bullshit.
Stevenson is important in making people aware of a system that is not working for them. | | | |
| Gary Stevenson's channel 4 documentary on 13:06 - Jul 7 with 2306 views | grow_our_own |
| Gary Stevenson's channel 4 documentary on 09:50 - Jul 7 by MVBlue |
His 'most successful trader' line is a pure attention grabber, hes learned he needs to use these soundbites to get attention and it worked. The truth is hes a clever mathematician who put all his focus into his studies when he realised he was on a bad path but was inspired to make good. He got onto a trading floor and worked out the system. That burned him out despite not doing the partying. But what he saw and learned was the bond markets and the super rich moving their money round the markets, while the economy itself started flatlining, so saw that down the road is Governments having their services, property and systems acquired by the markets as they are sold off, and obtained by the super rich. He has correctly predicted the continuous downward trend of UK and wants to wake people up to it as well as seeing his financial advantages from knowing this generate him income. As he says it's unlikely he will be affected, but having a conscience unlike others, he wants people to really grasp what is happening. The UK is going to lose much of its benefits in the coming years. All he suggest is a 2% tax on the super Rich. Its pretty logical, because all the money and investments have already flowed up to them and continues to. [Post edited 7 Jul 9:51]
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"All he suggest is a 2% tax on the super Rich" - which is being purported as the salvation to all our problems. In fact it'll raise the square root of f#ck all. Even if there wouldn't be a massive tax gap, even if the tax gap was zero, Gary's 2% > 10m would still only raise just over 2% of our total tax take. But the idea sells because "tax the rich" is a superficially enticing policy. The moment this kind of policy come into contact with reality, it fails to deliver the fiscal benefits, meanwhile hard-left populists will have started spending as if it has. Hence if the Greens and their Gary economics ever come close to power, the bond market will have a stroke and everyone's mortgages will become a neck shackle.
I'm in favour of wealth taxes that can actually work such as land tax (instead of council tax) and inheritance tax. I'm not opposed to equalising income and capital gains tax either. But an absolute % on wealth - the vast majority of the promised tax revenue will never arrive in HMRC. Simply too easy to avoid. [Post edited 7 Jul 13:49]
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