| Rod Liddle dead at 66 on 10:03 - Aug 4 with 871 views | StokieBlue |
| Rod Liddle dead at 66 on 09:43 - Aug 4 by balcombeblue |
I had to look up sealioning.
I think you’ve misused the term for a couple of reasons.
I am not falsely polite. You don’t know me. I haven’t repeated the same lines, trolled you or harassed you.
I’ve not continually questioned your evidence. I simply posed an alternate view.
It feels like a tactic to try and stop me (and others)posting. Suggesting I’m at odds with everyone else’s views. It’s quite bullying tbh and totally condescending |
Somehow I doubt you had to look it up. I'm happy with using it, in my opinion that's what you're doing and you're very happy that people post their opinions.
Asking you to backup your assertions is bullying? Just seems like you backed a rather nasty individual and don't want to admit it.
Enjoy your day.
SB |  |
| Avatar - M101 - Pinwheel Galaxy |
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| Rod Liddle dead at 66 on 10:27 - Aug 4 with 798 views | balcombeblue |
| Rod Liddle dead at 66 on 10:03 - Aug 4 by StokieBlue |
Somehow I doubt you had to look it up. I'm happy with using it, in my opinion that's what you're doing and you're very happy that people post their opinions.
Asking you to backup your assertions is bullying? Just seems like you backed a rather nasty individual and don't want to admit it.
Enjoy your day.
SB |
Post opinions, rather than personal attacks. In a few short weeks I can list the epithets you’ve used on me. That’s the aspect of bullying.
Likewise |  | | |
| Rod Liddle dead at 66 on 10:43 - Aug 4 with 733 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Rod Liddle dead at 66 on 07:20 - Aug 4 by balcombeblue |
I take great heart in the tributes paid by so many different people to Liddle.
The fact that he’s been judged, like many others, by a few on this board would be water off a dicks back. |
What has that remotely got to do with what I posted? |  |
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| Rod Liddle dead at 66 on 11:11 - Aug 4 with 642 views | Trequartista |
| Rod Liddle dead at 66 on 10:31 - Aug 4 by DJR |
I'm no fan of Rod Liddle but I believe in free speech and I think it is wrong to attempt to silence people or character assassinate them because of the views they hold.
Challenge the view not the individual is my philosophy, and I am reminded of the words of John Stuart Mill.
“If all mankind minus one were of one opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind.”
Sadly, these days many so-called liberal people act in what I would regard as an illiberal way which often seems to be a way to close down debate. This is certainly the case on TWTD which in my view discourages people from expressing views.
Finally, I think it is wrong to bad-mouth the recently deceased but I might make an exception for mass murderers.  [Post edited 4 Aug 10:35]
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I agree with challenging the views not the individual, and i also agree there is a line you have to draw somewhere, you can't just say Hitler did a few bad things, and you've drawn it there with mass murderers.
Rod Liddle undoubtedly said or did some reprehensible things in terms of some of his actions I don't think there is much point trying to defend him on some of those issues, but it's this behaviour of getting him in a racist/sexist/homophobe/bigot label to achieve a cancellation that seems weird to me.
For example Leslie Grantham committed murder. Is that not worse? Did he get cancelled? Was he automatically a see you next tuesday when he died?
Keeps the brain ticking thinking about these things I guess. [Post edited 4 Aug 11:13]
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| Rod Liddle dead at 66 on 11:17 - Aug 4 with 611 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Rod Liddle dead at 66 on 11:11 - Aug 4 by Trequartista |
I agree with challenging the views not the individual, and i also agree there is a line you have to draw somewhere, you can't just say Hitler did a few bad things, and you've drawn it there with mass murderers.
Rod Liddle undoubtedly said or did some reprehensible things in terms of some of his actions I don't think there is much point trying to defend him on some of those issues, but it's this behaviour of getting him in a racist/sexist/homophobe/bigot label to achieve a cancellation that seems weird to me.
For example Leslie Grantham committed murder. Is that not worse? Did he get cancelled? Was he automatically a see you next tuesday when he died?
Keeps the brain ticking thinking about these things I guess. [Post edited 4 Aug 11:13]
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Was Liddle cancelled? | |
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| Rod Liddle dead at 66 on 11:22 - Aug 4 with 594 views | Trequartista |
Do you think he would get a job at the BBC even cleaning the toilets since the events already discussed? | |
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| Rod Liddle dead at 66 on 11:23 - Aug 4 with 592 views | DJR |
My main point is that Balcombeblue is getting abuse on this thread, and Benters gets it all the time, just for holding a view that is out of the norm on here, and I imagine this discourages others who are not so bold and brave as them to express opinions on TWTD.
That is not healthy for debate in what is supposed to be a liberal democracy.
But increasing intolerance seems to be the way we are heading.
And don't forget, there is much more to the individual than their political views.
Indeed, Justin Webb, very much a liberal, described Liddle as brilliant, kind and funny.
[Post edited 4 Aug 11:29]
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| Rod Liddle dead at 66 on 11:34 - Aug 4 with 530 views | balcombeblue |
| Rod Liddle dead at 66 on 11:11 - Aug 4 by Trequartista |
I agree with challenging the views not the individual, and i also agree there is a line you have to draw somewhere, you can't just say Hitler did a few bad things, and you've drawn it there with mass murderers.
Rod Liddle undoubtedly said or did some reprehensible things in terms of some of his actions I don't think there is much point trying to defend him on some of those issues, but it's this behaviour of getting him in a racist/sexist/homophobe/bigot label to achieve a cancellation that seems weird to me.
For example Leslie Grantham committed murder. Is that not worse? Did he get cancelled? Was he automatically a see you next tuesday when he died?
Keeps the brain ticking thinking about these things I guess. [Post edited 4 Aug 11:13]
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Godwin’s law! Arrived on page 5!
Agree with your post though. | | | |
| It’s got to the stage…. on 11:39 - Aug 4 with 517 views | Bloots |
| Rod Liddle dead at 66 on 11:23 - Aug 4 by DJR |
My main point is that Balcombeblue is getting abuse on this thread, and Benters gets it all the time, just for holding a view that is out of the norm on here, and I imagine this discourages others who are not so bold and brave as them to express opinions on TWTD.
That is not healthy for debate in what is supposed to be a liberal democracy.
But increasing intolerance seems to be the way we are heading.
And don't forget, there is much more to the individual than their political views.
Indeed, Justin Webb, very much a liberal, described Liddle as brilliant, kind and funny.
[Post edited 4 Aug 11:29]
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….on here where even if you don’t want to engage in the debate, due to the inevitable abuse, you can’t downvote a post without getting attacked for it.
As you say, I’m sure it discourages people from posting. It’s just not worth the grief.
Sadly, once the LAS mark your card then that’s it.
Rock ‘n Roll. |  |
| "....get on, get on, get on, my groovy train” - Peter Joseph Hooton (Aug 1990) |
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| Rod Liddle dead at 66 on 11:42 - Aug 4 with 495 views | DJR |
| Rod Liddle dead at 66 on 10:46 - Aug 4 by Ryorry |
“ I believe in free speech and I think it is wrong to attempt to silence people”
Hell’s teeth DJR, it’s been pointed out in unmistakable terms how publicising a laissez faire attitude towards paedophilia actually enables paedophilia.
I’m all for free speech and discussion, but there are times when lines need to be drawn & publication should not happen. |
Interestingly, the article was in the Guardian but he would probably struggle to get it published these days, although there would be nothing to stop him publishing it on a website.
Over the years there has undoubtedly been a change of attitude in this area.
Indeed, I remember 40 odd years ago reading Lolita and not thinking there was anything wrong about doing so because I was reading it as a well-regarded book of literature. But these days I might question whether I should even buy it. And if I did read it in public, I'd probably have to use a brown cover. [Post edited 4 Aug 11:51]
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| Rod Liddle dead at 66 on 11:43 - Aug 4 with 492 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Rod Liddle dead at 66 on 11:22 - Aug 4 by Trequartista |
Do you think he would get a job at the BBC even cleaning the toilets since the events already discussed? |
I've no idea, what's the BBC got to do with it anyway?
I'm not a follower of his work, it's just that someone said he was writing these columns last week. | |
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| It’s got to the stage…. on 11:46 - Aug 4 with 473 views | DJR |
| It’s got to the stage…. on 11:39 - Aug 4 by Bloots |
….on here where even if you don’t want to engage in the debate, due to the inevitable abuse, you can’t downvote a post without getting attacked for it.
As you say, I’m sure it discourages people from posting. It’s just not worth the grief.
Sadly, once the LAS mark your card then that’s it.
Rock ‘n Roll. |
The LAS are a bit too right wing for my liking. | | | |
| Rod Liddle dead at 66 on 11:46 - Aug 4 with 466 views | vapour_trail |
| Rod Liddle dead at 66 on 11:22 - Aug 4 by Trequartista |
Do you think he would get a job at the BBC even cleaning the toilets since the events already discussed? |
He was employed, well remunerated, and had a significant platform, right up to his final days.
In no way was he cancelled. You just seem to like throwing the idea out there that people are being cancelled. No idea why. |  |
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| Rod Liddle dead at 66 on 11:48 - Aug 4 with 448 views | balcombeblue |
| Rod Liddle dead at 66 on 11:23 - Aug 4 by DJR |
My main point is that Balcombeblue is getting abuse on this thread, and Benters gets it all the time, just for holding a view that is out of the norm on here, and I imagine this discourages others who are not so bold and brave as them to express opinions on TWTD.
That is not healthy for debate in what is supposed to be a liberal democracy.
But increasing intolerance seems to be the way we are heading.
And don't forget, there is much more to the individual than their political views.
Indeed, Justin Webb, very much a liberal, described Liddle as brilliant, kind and funny.
[Post edited 4 Aug 11:29]
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I don’t think anything I say is remotely outside a certain envelope of normality and respect. However I get constantly labelled by the same people, but it doesn’t deter me. | | | |
| Rod Liddle dead at 66 on 11:49 - Aug 4 with 447 views | Trequartista |
| Rod Liddle dead at 66 on 11:43 - Aug 4 by The_Flashing_Smile |
I've no idea, what's the BBC got to do with it anyway?
I'm not a follower of his work, it's just that someone said he was writing these columns last week. |
Well firstly, they used to employ him so if they would no longer employ him in any capacity that's evidence of cancellation.
Secondly, the BBC is an organisation that will sideline people who don't, let's use that awful phrase, align with their core values, whereas say I don't know TalkSport wouldn't really care, so I used the BBC as that is a good example in that respect too. [Post edited 4 Aug 11:50]
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| It’s got to the stage…. on 11:56 - Aug 4 with 395 views | Dubtractor |
| It’s got to the stage…. on 11:39 - Aug 4 by Bloots |
….on here where even if you don’t want to engage in the debate, due to the inevitable abuse, you can’t downvote a post without getting attacked for it.
As you say, I’m sure it discourages people from posting. It’s just not worth the grief.
Sadly, once the LAS mark your card then that’s it.
Rock ‘n Roll. |
I'm not really sure how this thread has got to 4 pages tbh.
It's pretty straightforward in my view.
I (and others) think Liddle was a pretty crap individual who shared remarkably unpleasant views in his time.
Others seem to want to defend that based on views about free speech and Liddle being a provocateur, which they are entitled to do, even if I disagree.
I'm not sure there is too much value in either side of that debate trying to convince the other that they are wrong, as we have seen over the last 4 pages.
Don't get me wrong, there are issues that are worth arguing about, Rod Liddle isn't one of them! [Post edited 4 Aug 13:52]
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| Rod Liddle dead at 66 on 11:57 - Aug 4 with 389 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Rod Liddle dead at 66 on 11:23 - Aug 4 by DJR |
My main point is that Balcombeblue is getting abuse on this thread, and Benters gets it all the time, just for holding a view that is out of the norm on here, and I imagine this discourages others who are not so bold and brave as them to express opinions on TWTD.
That is not healthy for debate in what is supposed to be a liberal democracy.
But increasing intolerance seems to be the way we are heading.
And don't forget, there is much more to the individual than their political views.
Indeed, Justin Webb, very much a liberal, described Liddle as brilliant, kind and funny.
[Post edited 4 Aug 11:29]
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Depends what you call abuse.
And I don't think the views expressed by both of those are simply "out of the norm on here" and just "expressing opinions". That's massively watering down what many decent people would think is vile stuff. And the addition of "on here" suggests that the decent people of TWTD are the problem and/or an anomaly, which i don't think is fair or true.
Should such views not be challenged?
There's no gang on here, that I know of. If someone gets piled on it's usually because they've said something out of order. And I don't think posting inflamatory stuff anonymously on a football messageboard is particularly bold or brave either. | |
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| Rod Liddle dead at 66 on 12:07 - Aug 4 with 336 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Rod Liddle dead at 66 on 11:49 - Aug 4 by Trequartista |
Well firstly, they used to employ him so if they would no longer employ him in any capacity that's evidence of cancellation.
Secondly, the BBC is an organisation that will sideline people who don't, let's use that awful phrase, align with their core values, whereas say I don't know TalkSport wouldn't really care, so I used the BBC as that is a good example in that respect too. [Post edited 4 Aug 11:50]
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Hmm. I tend to think of "cancelled" meaning they can't find gainful employment, not just that one organisation no longer employs them.
I don't know an awful lot about him, so I asked Chat;
"Rod Liddle was not permanently barred from the BBC, but he was forced to give up one of the BBC's most senior editorial jobs in 2002.
At the time, Liddle was the editor of BBC Radio 4's flagship Today programme. Simultaneously, he was writing a newspaper column for The Guardian. One column, in which he made strongly partisan comments about supporters of the Countryside Alliance, led BBC management to conclude that it undermined the corporation's requirement for political impartiality from someone in such a senior news role.
The BBC gave him a choice:
stop writing the opinion column, or
step down as editor of Today.
Liddle chose to resign as editor rather than give up the column. The BBC itself stressed at the time that he had resigned rather than been sacked outright.
Afterwards:
He continued a successful career as a newspaper columnist, writing for publications including The Sunday Times, The Spectator and The Sun.
He did make occasional appearances on BBC programmes over the years, so he wasn't "cancelled" in the sense of being blacklisted from the broadcaster."
If that's correct it doesn't sound like he was cancelled to me. | |
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| Totally agree. (n/t) on 12:13 - Aug 4 with 302 views | Bloots |
| It’s got to the stage…. on 11:56 - Aug 4 by Dubtractor |
I'm not really sure how this thread has got to 4 pages tbh.
It's pretty straightforward in my view.
I (and others) think Liddle was a pretty crap individual who shared remarkably unpleasant views in his time.
Others seem to want to defend that based on views about free speech and Liddle being a provocateur, which they are entitled to do, even if I disagree.
I'm not sure there is too much value in either side of that debate trying to convince the other that they are wrong, as we have seen over the last 4 pages.
Don't get me wrong, there are issues that are worth arguing about, Rod Liddle isn't one of them! [Post edited 4 Aug 13:52]
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| "....get on, get on, get on, my groovy train” - Peter Joseph Hooton (Aug 1990) |
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