| haha, Farage caught bang to rights, illegal donations 19:15 - Sep 3 with 10848 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
Channel 4 investigation, on Channel 4 right now. |  |
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| haha, Farage caught bang to rights, illegal donations on 08:39 - Sep 4 | Swansea_Blue |
| haha, Farage caught bang to rights, illegal donations on 08:35 - Sep 4 by DJR |
One of their policies is Help British People Have Children, which makes me envisage large cut out figures of Nigel Farage being made available and intended to be put in bedrooms with a view to spicing up the sex lives of couples so as to spur them on to having children. Or even Nigel offering to turn up in the bedroom but obviously for a fee.
https://www.reformparty.uk/pol |
Now there’s an image I didn’t need  |  |
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| haha, Farage caught bang to rights, illegal donations on 08:39 - Sep 4 | hype313 |
You'd like to think his fans would finally wake up and smell the coffee.
Sadly, they'll double down as we've already seen on this thread.
How many times does this grifting, grubby chancer get before the realization sets in that he is about as man of the people as Pol Pot. |  |
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| haha, Farage caught bang to rights, illegal donations on 08:45 - Sep 4 | balcombeblue |
| haha, Farage caught bang to rights, illegal donations on 08:39 - Sep 4 by hype313 |
You'd like to think his fans would finally wake up and smell the coffee.
Sadly, they'll double down as we've already seen on this thread.
How many times does this grifting, grubby chancer get before the realization sets in that he is about as man of the people as Pol Pot. |
The best way to beat the arguments of Reform IMO is:
1. Have a credible economic plan.
2. Reduce the level of illegal migration and promote benefits of legal migration.
3. Don't be seen to be elitist or talking down to your core vote
4. Promote the interests of the UK abroad.
5. Don't elect clueless leaders.
To some extent or other, the big parties have failed on all of these. |  | | |
| haha, Farage caught bang to rights, illegal donations on 08:46 - Sep 4 | grow_our_own |
Farage literally said thanks for the "bang for buck" to a US donor. Law clearly says foreign donations (by non-UK citizens) are prohibited. Rightly so, we've plenty enough enemies around the world shit-stirring in our public sphere (social media) without them corrupting elections too. He's bang to rights.
The question is cut-through. The US electorate literally voted-in a convicted felon as President in 2024. Trump said he could shoot someone in broad-daylight on Fifth Avenue and it wouldn't matter to his electoral prospects. "Establishment stitch-up!". The media need to focus on why this matters. Why democracy, and having fair elections matter. Not that Farage sat down for oysters with an American who paid for a few polls. It's why, if we don't clamp down on undisclosed foreign donations, if we allow this to be rewarded in elections, what that means for the democracy our great/grandfathers died for. [Post edited 4 Sep 9:46]
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| haha, Farage caught bang to rights, illegal donations on 08:53 - Sep 4 | DJR |
| haha, Farage caught bang to rights, illegal donations on 08:39 - Sep 4 by Swansea_Blue |
Now there’s an image I didn’t need |
And for those who don't know what to do, perhaps a new version of the Kama Sutra with diagrams featuring the head and body of Nigel. |  | | |
| haha, Farage caught bang to rights, illegal donations on 09:05 - Sep 4 | ArnoldMoorhen |
| haha, Farage caught bang to rights, illegal donations on 20:16 - Sep 3 by TwoKnightsInIpswich |
Exclusive club.....in Clacton? |
Farage said that he had been introduced to a Black Velvet (Guinness topped up with champagne) in a London private members club, where it was the perfect thing to have with oysters. |  | | |
| haha, Farage caught bang to rights, illegal donations on 09:08 - Sep 4 | StokieBlue |
| haha, Farage caught bang to rights, illegal donations on 08:45 - Sep 4 by balcombeblue |
The best way to beat the arguments of Reform IMO is:
1. Have a credible economic plan.
2. Reduce the level of illegal migration and promote benefits of legal migration.
3. Don't be seen to be elitist or talking down to your core vote
4. Promote the interests of the UK abroad.
5. Don't elect clueless leaders.
To some extent or other, the big parties have failed on all of these. |
This isn't really true though because we have direct evidence from this forum as well as the recent voting record that Reform voters in the general case aren't interested in any actual policies or evidence.
Given that you can't beat arguments that they fundamentally don't care about.
SB |  |
| Avatar - M101 - Pinwheel Galaxy |
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| haha, Farage caught bang to rights, illegal donations on 09:12 - Sep 4 | BlueBadger |
| haha, Farage caught bang to rights, illegal donations on 08:53 - Sep 4 by DJR |
And for those who don't know what to do, perhaps a new version of the Kama Sutra with diagrams featuring the head and body of Nigel. |
Karma Sutra? None of those filthy foreign practice there, thank you. |  |
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| haha, Farage caught bang to rights, illegal donations on 09:19 - Sep 4 | grow_our_own |
| haha, Farage caught bang to rights, illegal donations on 09:05 - Sep 4 by ArnoldMoorhen |
Farage said that he had been introduced to a Black Velvet (Guinness topped up with champagne) in a London private members club, where it was the perfect thing to have with oysters. |
Yes Farage is a paid-up member of at least one exclusive Mayfair private members club. Attended private school. Has a dedicated 24 hour news channel channel in GBeebees. Gets undisclosed funding from billionaires. Most of the press is right-wing. Yet "Establishment stitch-up! Mwahh, waahhhh!". [Post edited 4 Sep 9:28]
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| haha, Farage caught bang to rights, illegal donations on 09:25 - Sep 4 | ArnoldMoorhen |
| haha, Farage caught bang to rights, illegal donations on 08:35 - Sep 4 by DJR |
One of their policies is Help British People Have Children, which makes me envisage large cut out figures of Nigel Farage being made available and intended to be put in bedrooms with a view to spicing up the sex lives of couples so as to spur them on to having children. Or even Nigel offering to turn up in the bedroom but obviously for a fee.
https://www.reformparty.uk/pol |
I don't know about turning up in the bedroom, but for £76 he'd film a personal video they could play on loop of him shouting:
"Up the Va..!" | | | |
| haha, Farage caught bang to rights, illegal donations on 09:26 - Sep 4 | balcombeblue |
| haha, Farage caught bang to rights, illegal donations on 09:08 - Sep 4 by StokieBlue |
This isn't really true though because we have direct evidence from this forum as well as the recent voting record that Reform voters in the general case aren't interested in any actual policies or evidence.
Given that you can't beat arguments that they fundamentally don't care about.
SB |
It has to be in the long term though doesn't it? Making a positive difference to the lives of people over a period of time, keeping your party clean from sleaze and doing things people care about?
In that way, you would get their 25% odd voting intention down to something much more manageable.
The structure of the two main parties doesn't allow that continuous strategy.
I shudder when so called 'progressives' label Reform voters as thick or racist. I would imagine that a decent percentage of their vote are no such thing, but feel they have no where to turn after being ignored by their own parties.
To give my right-wing perspective, I don't think the Conservative Party was in any way conservative. | | | |
| haha, Farage caught bang to rights, illegal donations on 09:28 - Sep 4 | balcombeblue |
| haha, Farage caught bang to rights, illegal donations on 09:19 - Sep 4 by grow_our_own |
Yes Farage is a paid-up member of at least one exclusive Mayfair private members club. Attended private school. Has a dedicated 24 hour news channel channel in GBeebees. Gets undisclosed funding from billionaires. Most of the press is right-wing. Yet "Establishment stitch-up! Mwahh, waahhhh!". [Post edited 4 Sep 9:28]
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The counter to this is that much of the media is hostile to Reform, including the BBC, Sky News, Channel 4 and ITV. As well as the majority of public sector institutions.
How many people actually read the Mail or GB News? I watch the odd clip from GB News, mostly for entertainment. | | | |
| haha, Farage caught bang to rights, illegal donations on 09:33 - Sep 4 | BanksterDebtSlave |
| haha, Farage caught bang to rights, illegal donations on 09:26 - Sep 4 by balcombeblue |
It has to be in the long term though doesn't it? Making a positive difference to the lives of people over a period of time, keeping your party clean from sleaze and doing things people care about?
In that way, you would get their 25% odd voting intention down to something much more manageable.
The structure of the two main parties doesn't allow that continuous strategy.
I shudder when so called 'progressives' label Reform voters as thick or racist. I would imagine that a decent percentage of their vote are no such thing, but feel they have no where to turn after being ignored by their own parties.
To give my right-wing perspective, I don't think the Conservative Party was in any way conservative. |
.....in this light....
https://www.theguardian.com/co |  |
| "They break our legs and tell us to be grateful when they offer us crutches." | | Poll: | What you watching. |
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| haha, Farage caught bang to rights, illegal donations on 09:34 - Sep 4 | StokieBlue |
| haha, Farage caught bang to rights, illegal donations on 09:26 - Sep 4 by balcombeblue |
It has to be in the long term though doesn't it? Making a positive difference to the lives of people over a period of time, keeping your party clean from sleaze and doing things people care about?
In that way, you would get their 25% odd voting intention down to something much more manageable.
The structure of the two main parties doesn't allow that continuous strategy.
I shudder when so called 'progressives' label Reform voters as thick or racist. I would imagine that a decent percentage of their vote are no such thing, but feel they have no where to turn after being ignored by their own parties.
To give my right-wing perspective, I don't think the Conservative Party was in any way conservative. |
What's the point though? It's been tried, many posters have asked Reform voters on here to explain their policies or why they would vote for them and they are either ignored or the poster doesn't know any policies.
All that matters is there is a meme that allows them to blame someone else, usually someone of a different ethnicity and then get angry about it.
Trying to counter them with actual political debate is utterly pointless. For instance, your point (2) has already happened and it makes absolutely no difference. The evidence is ignored or dismissed and they carry on saying "stop the boats".
I'm not even convinced that improving their lives would make much difference for many of them, they are too far gone. It's all about blaming someone now rather than fixing the issues within the country.
SB | |
| Avatar - M101 - Pinwheel Galaxy |
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| haha, Farage caught bang to rights, illegal donations on 09:35 - Sep 4 | hype313 |
| haha, Farage caught bang to rights, illegal donations on 09:34 - Sep 4 by StokieBlue |
What's the point though? It's been tried, many posters have asked Reform voters on here to explain their policies or why they would vote for them and they are either ignored or the poster doesn't know any policies.
All that matters is there is a meme that allows them to blame someone else, usually someone of a different ethnicity and then get angry about it.
Trying to counter them with actual political debate is utterly pointless. For instance, your point (2) has already happened and it makes absolutely no difference. The evidence is ignored or dismissed and they carry on saying "stop the boats".
I'm not even convinced that improving their lives would make much difference for many of them, they are too far gone. It's all about blaming someone now rather than fixing the issues within the country.
SB |
Reform's MO is divide and conquer.
No amount of reasoned debate will change the mindset of the die hard supporters, as I've experienced, it's a futile exercise, even when the evidence is overwhelmingly obvious. | |
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| haha, Farage caught bang to rights, illegal donations on 09:36 - Sep 4 | StokieBlue |
| haha, Farage caught bang to rights, illegal donations on 09:28 - Sep 4 by balcombeblue |
The counter to this is that much of the media is hostile to Reform, including the BBC, Sky News, Channel 4 and ITV. As well as the majority of public sector institutions.
How many people actually read the Mail or GB News? I watch the odd clip from GB News, mostly for entertainment. |
Is that true though?
Before they actually got a good share of the vote, Farage had far more air time that any other leader has ever had for the relative party size.
The media are hostile to the awful and often illegal policies and corruption, not Reform themselves.
SB | |
| Avatar - M101 - Pinwheel Galaxy |
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| haha, Farage caught bang to rights, illegal donations on 09:44 - Sep 4 | grow_our_own |
| haha, Farage caught bang to rights, illegal donations on 09:26 - Sep 4 by balcombeblue |
It has to be in the long term though doesn't it? Making a positive difference to the lives of people over a period of time, keeping your party clean from sleaze and doing things people care about?
In that way, you would get their 25% odd voting intention down to something much more manageable.
The structure of the two main parties doesn't allow that continuous strategy.
I shudder when so called 'progressives' label Reform voters as thick or racist. I would imagine that a decent percentage of their vote are no such thing, but feel they have no where to turn after being ignored by their own parties.
To give my right-wing perspective, I don't think the Conservative Party was in any way conservative. |
"Making a positive difference to the lives of people over a period of time" - is made difficult by the most popular political figure in the UK flushing down the toilet £120bn from everyone's pockets every year (4% of the economy according to the OBR). Thanks for Brexit Nige! That's the average wages of three million British workers. Man of the people. [Post edited 4 Sep 9:44]
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| haha, Farage caught bang to rights, illegal donations on 09:45 - Sep 4 | balcombeblue |
| haha, Farage caught bang to rights, illegal donations on 09:34 - Sep 4 by StokieBlue |
What's the point though? It's been tried, many posters have asked Reform voters on here to explain their policies or why they would vote for them and they are either ignored or the poster doesn't know any policies.
All that matters is there is a meme that allows them to blame someone else, usually someone of a different ethnicity and then get angry about it.
Trying to counter them with actual political debate is utterly pointless. For instance, your point (2) has already happened and it makes absolutely no difference. The evidence is ignored or dismissed and they carry on saying "stop the boats".
I'm not even convinced that improving their lives would make much difference for many of them, they are too far gone. It's all about blaming someone now rather than fixing the issues within the country.
SB |
You've got to keep trying to win the argument though. I think the trap people, particularly on the left fall into is damning those people rather than promoting your own views. After all, many of those Reform supporters are winnable for the main parties.
I know you say evidence a lot in your posts, but perception is also important in politics, like it or not. You don't need evidence to support a party, just hope they will do what you want them to.
It's like pretending you want to sign for Ipswich after you've signed because Man City pulled out. | | | |
| haha, Farage caught bang to rights, illegal donations on 09:46 - Sep 4 | balcombeblue |
| haha, Farage caught bang to rights, illegal donations on 09:36 - Sep 4 by StokieBlue |
Is that true though?
Before they actually got a good share of the vote, Farage had far more air time that any other leader has ever had for the relative party size.
The media are hostile to the awful and often illegal policies and corruption, not Reform themselves.
SB |
I think that air time was arguably less to do with Reform and their vote, more to do with presenting a pro-Brexit view? There were very few politicians that could do that. I think every party in the Commons at the time supported remain? Says a lot about the result really and what people thought of politicians. | | | |
| haha, Farage caught bang to rights, illegal donations on 09:48 - Sep 4 | StokieBlue |
| haha, Farage caught bang to rights, illegal donations on 09:45 - Sep 4 by balcombeblue |
You've got to keep trying to win the argument though. I think the trap people, particularly on the left fall into is damning those people rather than promoting your own views. After all, many of those Reform supporters are winnable for the main parties.
I know you say evidence a lot in your posts, but perception is also important in politics, like it or not. You don't need evidence to support a party, just hope they will do what you want them to.
It's like pretending you want to sign for Ipswich after you've signed because Man City pulled out. |
Evidence is important, I know you think it isn't but fundamentally it's the core of any sensible debate.
As for the rest, you're not really listening. All the things you mention have been tried, you cannot win an argument that the other side is unwilling to engage in. You can't change peoples minds when they don't want them to be changed and are happy lapping up whatever a proven liar says.
How can perception be important to these voters when Farage is clearly creating an awful perception around himself with his actions? Your narrative doesn't make sense when faced with an illogical voting block.
SB | |
| Avatar - M101 - Pinwheel Galaxy |
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| haha, Farage caught bang to rights, illegal donations on 09:51 - Sep 4 | StokieBlue |
| haha, Farage caught bang to rights, illegal donations on 09:46 - Sep 4 by balcombeblue |
I think that air time was arguably less to do with Reform and their vote, more to do with presenting a pro-Brexit view? There were very few politicians that could do that. I think every party in the Commons at the time supported remain? Says a lot about the result really and what people thought of politicians. |
Boris and his group didn't support remain and were members of a mainstream party, why not have them instead of Farage?
I don't think there can be a narrative here that Farage and Reform have been hard done by with regards to representation and coverage in the press. If anything the press don't push back hard enough against the obvious lies, falsehoods and racism.
SB | |
| Avatar - M101 - Pinwheel Galaxy |
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| haha, Farage caught bang to rights, illegal donations on 09:53 - Sep 4 | balcombeblue |
| haha, Farage caught bang to rights, illegal donations on 09:48 - Sep 4 by StokieBlue |
Evidence is important, I know you think it isn't but fundamentally it's the core of any sensible debate.
As for the rest, you're not really listening. All the things you mention have been tried, you cannot win an argument that the other side is unwilling to engage in. You can't change peoples minds when they don't want them to be changed and are happy lapping up whatever a proven liar says.
How can perception be important to these voters when Farage is clearly creating an awful perception around himself with his actions? Your narrative doesn't make sense when faced with an illogical voting block.
SB |
Maybe it's not your intention, but saying I'm not listening is very rude.
Only a proportion of Farage's vote is hardened, much of it is just disaffected voters from other parties, they are the people to win round. I believe they will be moved back to the Conservatives here in Sussex by 2028. the 2024 vote was to give the Conservatives a slap in the face.
Evidence isn't evidence as you see it, not everything can be positioned objectively. | | | |
| haha, Farage caught bang to rights, illegal donations on 09:57 - Sep 4 | positivity |
| haha, Farage caught bang to rights, illegal donations on 05:39 - Sep 4 by balcombeblue |
Morning, sorry was out post work. Bermondsey beer mile, can recommend.
I’ll have to watch it this morning if I can. Hopefully this further contributes to the decline of Reform in the polls and a centre right resurgence!
I don’t know too many centre right/one nation conservatives who support reform. Doesn’t polling suggest they pick up voters from across the spectrum? They are a nationalist party, not entirely sure of their economic policy, do they have one?
Where I live, it’s still very soft blue. Reform made some headway in the recent locals but I doubt that would hold up in a GE
I wouldn’t write them off though. Whatever the documentary says they have a hardcore of 20% of the vote share. I don’t see that changing before 2028. |
serious question, what does a one nation conservative do now?
you've been purged by kemi and her headbangers, where do you vote? lib dem, labour? maybe the country needs a centre-right party for the politically homeless? | |
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| haha, Farage caught bang to rights, illegal donations on 10:00 - Sep 4 | grow_our_own |
| haha, Farage caught bang to rights, illegal donations on 09:45 - Sep 4 by balcombeblue |
You've got to keep trying to win the argument though. I think the trap people, particularly on the left fall into is damning those people rather than promoting your own views. After all, many of those Reform supporters are winnable for the main parties.
I know you say evidence a lot in your posts, but perception is also important in politics, like it or not. You don't need evidence to support a party, just hope they will do what you want them to.
It's like pretending you want to sign for Ipswich after you've signed because Man City pulled out. |
This. True there are unreachables. People for whom evidence/policies/criminality don't matter. Between 10-15% of all western electorates vote for absolute lunatics. Shouldn't bother trying to reach/appease them. But you can't give up on everyone else. Many voted for Trump, not because they liked the Jan 6th attempted insurrection, or they don't care that he's a convicted felon. They voted for him bc he offered tax-free overtime, secure borders, and because he seemed more patriotic than the Democrats. Need to try to build a bridge to Reform voters who aren't racist, xenophobic zealots. [Post edited 4 Sep 10:06]
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| haha, Farage caught bang to rights, illegal donations on 10:02 - Sep 4 | StokieBlue |
| haha, Farage caught bang to rights, illegal donations on 09:53 - Sep 4 by balcombeblue |
Maybe it's not your intention, but saying I'm not listening is very rude.
Only a proportion of Farage's vote is hardened, much of it is just disaffected voters from other parties, they are the people to win round. I believe they will be moved back to the Conservatives here in Sussex by 2028. the 2024 vote was to give the Conservatives a slap in the face.
Evidence isn't evidence as you see it, not everything can be positioned objectively. |
Certainly wasn't meant in a rude way. My point is you keep saying the same thing when posters (not just myself) have pointed out that the voters you are targeting simply don't care.
Repeating it won't make your point true.
I agree there are voters to be won but at the moment the only way to do that seems to be to follow Reform policies or at least head in that direction. I am hopeful that they will remain in third place running up to the election though.
"Evidence isn't evidence as you see it, not everything can be positioned objectively."
But a lot of things can. I presented evidence (as have others) about small boat crossings decreasing and the reply was "I don't believe it". That is empirical evidence being ignored. If evidence exists you can't just dismiss it because it doesn't tally with your feelings but we've had this debate before and I'm not really keen to have it again as I am sure you're not.
I fundamentally disagree that your "well intentioned and heart felt political opinions" (I believe that is how you phrased it) supersede actual evidence, it's not something we will agree on.
SB | |
| Avatar - M101 - Pinwheel Galaxy |
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