| Making the opposition look good 15:58 - Sep 6 with 2478 views | Mckenna1263 |
I fear that we have made both United and Liverpool who have been very ropey up until now look far better than they actually are simply by our open style of play and a defence that can be unlocked by a simple through ball. |  | | |  |
| Making the opposition look good on 17:08 - Sep 6 with 436 views | Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
| Making the opposition look good on 17:03 - Sep 6 by positivity |
you think you can't get lucky in 3 matches? |
Everyone said the same about them all last year as well. They’re solid and make a mockery of XG because of the amount of speculative efforts they face due to their discipline and shape.
That is the base to get points, our defence has looked the shaky already letting teams in behind. Let’s just hope we have enough to win games at the other end. |  |
| |
| Making the opposition look good on 17:10 - Sep 6 with 427 views | Dubtractor |
| Making the opposition look good on 17:03 - Sep 6 by positivity |
you think you can't get lucky in 3 matches? |
Hull have an xG against of 4.51, compared to our 6.06, which would suggest some luck has come into it to get 3 clean sheets.
Further to that, they have conceded 45 shots to our 54. Both too high, but definitely suggest that the current goals conceded totals are a bit of an anomaly. [Post edited 6 Sep 17:51]
|  |
| |
| Making the opposition look good on 17:11 - Sep 6 with 407 views | Adams |
| Making the opposition look good on 16:44 - Sep 6 by FrimleyBlue |
Utd should have scored a handful v hull. They also should have scored more today. Just like villa yesturday. Liverpool had opportunities to score more v newcastle and forest.
Why are you after 3 football games basing us making teams look ordinary soley based on results?
Personally for a side with a new manager. 14 new players. A midfield thats only had 60 minutes together. Defence partnerships to grow and a keeper too. I think 3 points sitting 13th after 3 games is absoutely fine. |
Forest deserved to beat Liverpool (higher xG as well). Liverpool were lucky to snatch a draw and didn't create much.
Man U only had an xG of 0.71 today. Everton created more. They didn't create that much against Hull.
It's become clear you haven't actually watched any of the games and have no idea what you are talking about. If you had watched them, you would realise just how silly what you just said was.
Remember, the comment I replied to was about individual players looking better (attacking players) so far this season. You misunderstood everything and started going on about us being unlucky in the goals we conceded. That wasn't what we were talking about. If you're wide open, you'll find good players will have their best games against us. This is common sense, and it's what has happened so far. Hopefully we change and become harder to play against.
Yes. 3 points at this stage is fine. Again, it isn't what we were talking about. I personally think we will have enough to stay up. Just because I'm positive about what will happen doesn't mean I have to ignore what has happened. [Post edited 6 Sep 17:14]
| | | |
| Making the opposition look good on 17:11 - Sep 6 with 405 views | FrimleyBlue |
| Making the opposition look good on 17:08 - Sep 6 by Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
Everyone said the same about them all last year as well. They’re solid and make a mockery of XG because of the amount of speculative efforts they face due to their discipline and shape.
That is the base to get points, our defence has looked the shaky already letting teams in behind. Let’s just hope we have enough to win games at the other end. |
Speculative efforts wouldnt count towards the xga. Only chances that should have resulted in a goal. |  |
| |
| Making the opposition look good on 17:11 - Sep 6 with 399 views | pointofblue |
| Making the opposition look good on 17:08 - Sep 6 by Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
Everyone said the same about them all last year as well. They’re solid and make a mockery of XG because of the amount of speculative efforts they face due to their discipline and shape.
That is the base to get points, our defence has looked the shaky already letting teams in behind. Let’s just hope we have enough to win games at the other end. |
Speculative efforts get a low xG. Hull's xGA is where it is because of poor finishing and great keeping - as you say, similar to last season. Both them and Sunderland made it work, but whether it's sustainable long term is the big question. | |
| |
| Making the opposition look good on 17:13 - Sep 6 with 390 views | positivity |
| Making the opposition look good on 17:08 - Sep 6 by Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
Everyone said the same about them all last year as well. They’re solid and make a mockery of XG because of the amount of speculative efforts they face due to their discipline and shape.
That is the base to get points, our defence has looked the shaky already letting teams in behind. Let’s just hope we have enough to win games at the other end. |
speculative efforts have very low xg, so that doesn't really stand up.
it's very early to write off our defence, diop hasn't impressed me so far, but he's got a decent body of work to say that he should improve. similarly, ouattara getting up to speed will improve us.
there's also the small matter of the protection the defence will receive from the centre-mids. when they're up to speed lukic and palacios (plus higher quality replacements) should form a much better base than an ageing morsy and attack-minded cajuste last time out | |
| |
| Making the opposition look good on 17:16 - Sep 6 with 372 views | FrimleyBlue |
| Making the opposition look good on 17:11 - Sep 6 by Adams |
Forest deserved to beat Liverpool (higher xG as well). Liverpool were lucky to snatch a draw and didn't create much.
Man U only had an xG of 0.71 today. Everton created more. They didn't create that much against Hull.
It's become clear you haven't actually watched any of the games and have no idea what you are talking about. If you had watched them, you would realise just how silly what you just said was.
Remember, the comment I replied to was about individual players looking better (attacking players) so far this season. You misunderstood everything and started going on about us being unlucky in the goals we conceded. That wasn't what we were talking about. If you're wide open, you'll find good players will have their best games against us. This is common sense, and it's what has happened so far. Hopefully we change and become harder to play against.
Yes. 3 points at this stage is fine. Again, it isn't what we were talking about. I personally think we will have enough to stay up. Just because I'm positive about what will happen doesn't mean I have to ignore what has happened. [Post edited 6 Sep 17:14]
|
Your ongoing rants this weekend is that we faced struggling sides which sorry is laughable when both of them havent actually struggled.
Are we now after just 3 games supposed to be on the same level as every established side plus those who finish in the top 6?
Only one top 6 side is currently struggling and thats villa who still havent scored a goal. | |
| |
| Making the opposition look good on 17:19 - Sep 6 with 365 views | pointofblue |
| Making the opposition look good on 17:16 - Sep 6 by FrimleyBlue |
Your ongoing rants this weekend is that we faced struggling sides which sorry is laughable when both of them havent actually struggled.
Are we now after just 3 games supposed to be on the same level as every established side plus those who finish in the top 6?
Only one top 6 side is currently struggling and thats villa who still havent scored a goal. |
There's a difference between being on a same level as them and making it difficult for them, though. Making them work for their goals rather than laying them on a plate. Admittedly, at Old Trafford, that was at least partially down to unfortunate events feeding both teams in opposite ways, but the first ten minutes against Liverpool was horrible to watch. | |
| |
Login to get fewer ads
| Making the opposition look good on 17:20 - Sep 6 with 363 views | Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
| Making the opposition look good on 17:07 - Sep 6 by FrimleyBlue |
If youre managing to out perform your xga then yes its a sign that the opponents have ballsed up their chances more than youve actually defended well. |
Only if you don’t understand it, which you very clearly don’t.
Tell me who looked more threatening on Friday, us or Liverpool? I’ll wait.
Hull have faced 40 shots which proves their XG is very low per attempt, they’re not giving up that many “big chances” per game. | |
| |
| Making the opposition look good on 17:21 - Sep 6 with 352 views | budgiebasher |
| Making the opposition look good on 16:53 - Sep 6 by pointofblue |
From my point of view, my concern is it's exactly the same issues as two years ago. Too open, too expansive, giving good players too much time. My hope is O'Neil adapts but, considering how the likes of Fernandes and Isak have otherwise started the season, the OP (and my response) is not an unfair reflection of what happened against United and Liverpool - though there was a lot of misfortune against United. |
Apart from a mad 30 mins or so at OT when we lost our heads and shape (which was partly circumstantial) I don’t think we have been too open or expansive. Liverpool didn’t carve us open and neither did Sunderland, which is borne out by the stats.
Liverpool’s XG was 0.66 and they had 10 shots (7OT). I felt that their goals came from individual errors (Greaves switched off for the first and Scherpen got his positioning all wrong for their second) rather than a structural problem. Sunderland had an XG of 0.76 and 11 shots (4OT).
Also, no one mentions that against both Sunderland and Man Utd we effectively only had 2 of our 5(6) midfielders available which was far from ideal - having to give Nunez and Lukic full games at OT (bar 30 mins from Palacios who had barely trained with us) against Fernandes and Mainoo was always going to leave us exposed.
Please can we have some patience and perspective. The negativity seeps everywhere including into the ground. We saw that last season which was embarrassing. [Post edited 6 Sep 17:23]
|  |
| |
| Making the opposition look good on 17:23 - Sep 6 with 343 views | Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
| Making the opposition look good on 17:11 - Sep 6 by FrimleyBlue |
Speculative efforts wouldnt count towards the xga. Only chances that should have resulted in a goal. |
It’s ok, you don’t understand it. | |
| |
| Making the opposition look good on 17:24 - Sep 6 with 339 views | FrimleyBlue |
| Making the opposition look good on 17:19 - Sep 6 by pointofblue |
There's a difference between being on a same level as them and making it difficult for them, though. Making them work for their goals rather than laying them on a plate. Admittedly, at Old Trafford, that was at least partially down to unfortunate events feeding both teams in opposite ways, but the first ten minutes against Liverpool was horrible to watch. |
Think we all agree the first 10 mins friday wasnt pretty. But we regrouped and did bettet. Some tweaks to make but we were fine.
The way some are acting tho is that weve had two 90 minute prem games and been outplayed by all and made them all look amazing. Forgetting we are talking abojt clubs the size of utd away and liverpool..
But sometimes you go through that horrid spell. Newcastle game yesturday. They should have been 3 maybe even 4 down after they conceded they were all over the place.
[Post edited 6 Sep 17:25]
| |
| |
| Making the opposition look good on 17:25 - Sep 6 with 326 views | Dubtractor |
| Making the opposition look good on 17:20 - Sep 6 by Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
Only if you don’t understand it, which you very clearly don’t.
Tell me who looked more threatening on Friday, us or Liverpool? I’ll wait.
Hull have faced 40 shots which proves their XG is very low per attempt, they’re not giving up that many “big chances” per game. |
The overall average XG per shot faced by Hull is 0.1.
For us it is 0.11. | |
| |
| Making the opposition look good on 17:27 - Sep 6 with 315 views | FrimleyBlue |
| Making the opposition look good on 17:23 - Sep 6 by Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
It’s ok, you don’t understand it. |
Respectfully it seems you dont
Yesturday
Jackson free header wide
Barkley 8 yards out missed
Buendia 6 yards out missed
Mcginn inside box missed
So this amazing hull defence thats not lucky in anyway. got lucky no?
[Post edited 6 Sep 17:33]
| |
| |
| Making the opposition look good on 17:34 - Sep 6 with 278 views | Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
| Making the opposition look good on 17:27 - Sep 6 by FrimleyBlue |
Respectfully it seems you dont
Yesturday
Jackson free header wide
Barkley 8 yards out missed
Buendia 6 yards out missed
Mcginn inside box missed
So this amazing hull defence thats not lucky in anyway. got lucky no?
[Post edited 6 Sep 17:33]
|
xG is measured per individual shot which cumulatively adds up, they sit deep and allow them.
They’re over performing again and loses are coming but there is a reason they continue to out perform the stat. It’s not like they are giving up 3 big chances per game. [Post edited 6 Sep 17:35]
| |
| |
| Making the opposition look good on 17:35 - Sep 6 with 267 views | pointofblue |
| Making the opposition look good on 17:34 - Sep 6 by Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
xG is measured per individual shot which cumulatively adds up, they sit deep and allow them.
They’re over performing again and loses are coming but there is a reason they continue to out perform the stat. It’s not like they are giving up 3 big chances per game. [Post edited 6 Sep 17:35]
|
Four big chances have just been listed from yesterday alone. | |
| |
| Making the opposition look good on 17:38 - Sep 6 with 245 views | FrimleyBlue |
| Making the opposition look good on 17:34 - Sep 6 by Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
xG is measured per individual shot which cumulatively adds up, they sit deep and allow them.
They’re over performing again and loses are coming but there is a reason they continue to out perform the stat. It’s not like they are giving up 3 big chances per game. [Post edited 6 Sep 17:35]
|
Xg is expected goals scored
Xga is expected goals against.
Thats the thing tho. Hull are indeed giving up plenty of chances despite their defensive performances. I do agree however they should have scored themselves yesturday but villa should have had 3/4 goals. | |
| |
| Making the opposition look good on 17:39 - Sep 6 with 243 views | Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
| Making the opposition look good on 17:35 - Sep 6 by pointofblue |
Four big chances have just been listed from yesterday alone. |
Yes listed by FrimleyBlue on TWTD not the XG model. I thought that’s as the discussion here?
They have conceded 5 big chances this season (2 yesterday according to the data). | |
| |
| Making the opposition look good on 17:46 - Sep 6 with 229 views | Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
| Making the opposition look good on 17:38 - Sep 6 by FrimleyBlue |
Xg is expected goals scored
Xga is expected goals against.
Thats the thing tho. Hull are indeed giving up plenty of chances despite their defensive performances. I do agree however they should have scored themselves yesturday but villa should have had 3/4 goals. |
Yes and it’s the XGA for us which is the big concern IMO.
Whether Hull have enough about them to get points if they concede first is a big doubt, however you can probably say that for most bottom 5 type teams. They will try and play every game as they did yesterday.
We will play a much higher press and be more front footed with players that can hurt teams, which is great in all but I do think we have to sure up backline and consider a different approach in some games.
I don’t think anyone is advocating to go full Hull for the next 35 matches but there are elements of sitting in at times that we will have to adopt for periods in games. [Post edited 6 Sep 17:50]
| |
| |
| Making the opposition look good on 17:50 - Sep 6 with 202 views | budgiebasher |
| Making the opposition look good on 17:46 - Sep 6 by Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
Yes and it’s the XGA for us which is the big concern IMO.
Whether Hull have enough about them to get points if they concede first is a big doubt, however you can probably say that for most bottom 5 type teams. They will try and play every game as they did yesterday.
We will play a much higher press and be more front footed with players that can hurt teams, which is great in all but I do think we have to sure up backline and consider a different approach in some games.
I don’t think anyone is advocating to go full Hull for the next 35 matches but there are elements of sitting in at times that we will have to adopt for periods in games. [Post edited 6 Sep 17:50]
|
But our XGA against Liverpool was 0.66 and against Sunderland 0.75. That’s not awful is it? | |
| |
| Making the opposition look good on 17:53 - Sep 6 with 187 views | pointofblue |
| Making the opposition look good on 17:46 - Sep 6 by Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
Yes and it’s the XGA for us which is the big concern IMO.
Whether Hull have enough about them to get points if they concede first is a big doubt, however you can probably say that for most bottom 5 type teams. They will try and play every game as they did yesterday.
We will play a much higher press and be more front footed with players that can hurt teams, which is great in all but I do think we have to sure up backline and consider a different approach in some games.
I don’t think anyone is advocating to go full Hull for the next 35 matches but there are elements of sitting in at times that we will have to adopt for periods in games. [Post edited 6 Sep 17:50]
|
Hull's current xGA is 5. Ours is 6.1. A one goal difference across three games.
How has THIS thread also become about bloody Hull? | |
| |
| Making the opposition look good on 17:54 - Sep 6 with 182 views | Bellevue_Blue |
| Making the opposition look good on 17:20 - Sep 6 by Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
Only if you don’t understand it, which you very clearly don’t.
Tell me who looked more threatening on Friday, us or Liverpool? I’ll wait.
Hull have faced 40 shots which proves their XG is very low per attempt, they’re not giving up that many “big chances” per game. |
Liverpool's first goal on Saturday had an xG of 0.10, their second goal had an xG of 0.11.
Hull have faced 40 shots with a total xG of 4.9 or 0.12 on average.
So the average shot they are giving up is higher than both the goals we conceded on Friday ....
You've been talking about how easy we've given up good chances all weekend and now you are defending Hull for not giving up 'big chances' when they in fact have a higher probability than the shots we are giving up.
Make up your mind. [Post edited 6 Sep 18:00]
| | | |
| Making the opposition look good on 17:54 - Sep 6 with 181 views | FrimleyBlue |
| Making the opposition look good on 17:46 - Sep 6 by Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
Yes and it’s the XGA for us which is the big concern IMO.
Whether Hull have enough about them to get points if they concede first is a big doubt, however you can probably say that for most bottom 5 type teams. They will try and play every game as they did yesterday.
We will play a much higher press and be more front footed with players that can hurt teams, which is great in all but I do think we have to sure up backline and consider a different approach in some games.
I don’t think anyone is advocating to go full Hull for the next 35 matches but there are elements of sitting in at times that we will have to adopt for periods in games. [Post edited 6 Sep 17:50]
|
I think we will be alright.
More game time together for cms will help
Diop and greaves if thats the season plan. Theyll figure out what each other is doing | |
| |
| Making the opposition look good on 17:56 - Sep 6 with 170 views | FrimleyBlue |
| Making the opposition look good on 17:53 - Sep 6 by pointofblue |
Hull's current xGA is 5. Ours is 6.1. A one goal difference across three games.
How has THIS thread also become about bloody Hull? |
Thats on me
I think because of Hulls start its made people feel a way i dont think theyd feel if hull werent on 7 points. | |
| |
| Making the opposition look good on 17:57 - Sep 6 with 164 views | Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
| Making the opposition look good on 17:54 - Sep 6 by FrimleyBlue |
I think we will be alright.
More game time together for cms will help
Diop and greaves if thats the season plan. Theyll figure out what each other is doing |
I do hope so because if we concede over 2 goals PPG again we will get relegated, whoever we have up the other end. | |
| |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
