| Ed Sheeran 22:48 - Sep 14 with 35137 views | BlueNomad |
Shame he hasn’t made a stand in support of his friend Macklemore.
Macklemore dropped from Ed Sheeran tour after 'Free Palestine' speech https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/art [Post edited 14 Sep 22:49]
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| Ed Sheeran on 14:20 - Sep 18 with 587 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Ed Sheeran on 09:59 - Sep 18 by giant_stow |
You really don't have to go looking for this stuff. It's offered up freely and widely, even by one of the main protagonists in this matter with his jewface stuff. |
A pertinent question would be who is circulating this stuff. The first source in Glasser’s selection is from an apparently well-known conspiracy theorist who may historically may have been manipulating Twitter’s algorithm (see https://www.misbar.com/amp/en/ for a discussion of him) and very well could be getting even more boosts now Twitter’s lurched even more into conspiracies.
These sorts of Tweets are being pushed and promoted into people’s feeds even if they don’t follow those sorts of sites. It’s how Twitter is now being used to destabilise communities/countries.
Horrible images of course and I’m not defending them in the slightest, but people need to realise these are not likely representative of the wide population. I’d have thought people would have woken up to the fact that Twitter is a bin fire now and avoid using it and further spread the lies, conspiracies and hate that it seems designed to propagate. Not straightforward though, because the natural instinct is to call out this sort of abuse. |  |
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| Ed Sheeran on 14:26 - Sep 18 with 558 views | grow_our_own |
| Ed Sheeran on 14:03 - Sep 18 by positivity |
why, when the far right have killed millions of jews and some socialist worker students have put up some racist placards?
it's not a historical thing either, look at the q anon movement which helped put trump in charge or the rhetoric around soros by orban.
there are racists on both sides, but it's more prevalent on the far right. anti-semitism is just a form of racism |
The National Socialist German Workers party horse-shoed from left to right. It all started with f#ckwit anti-Semites' placards and hate-fuelled fairy-tales, and they're mostly held/told by the left today. |  | | |
| Ed Sheeran on 14:30 - Sep 18 with 522 views | positivity |
| Ed Sheeran on 14:15 - Sep 18 by grow_our_own |
There are two sets of people who need to agree to their neighbours existence. You are only pointing your finger at one of them. When the people of Palestine elected an overtly anti-Semitic govt that expressly called for Jew-murder, do you not think they were also part of the problem?
There is no original sin, and "you threw the first stone" will get us nowhere. But the only solution is two states. Anyone who opposes this is part of the problem.
The Israeli people elected Yitzhak Rabin as Prime Minister in the recent past. He was on the path to agreeing a two-state solution. Same goes for the Palestinian people, who elected Yasser Arafat as leader of the PLO around the same time. Need leaders like them again. [Post edited 18 Sep 14:19]
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we do, but the israeli people need to vote for them again. you can't just wish for it, it has to happen, so what's the solution? how do you put pressure on netanyahu to call an election?
when netanyahu was voted in, he bolstered hamas against the more peaceable palestinian authority, because perpetual war is the best thing to keep him in power and out of prison.
in these conditions hamas were elected (in gaza, not palestine) because they were (wrongly) seen as the best defence against netanyahu's aggression and expansion |  |
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| Ed Sheeran on 14:32 - Sep 18 with 506 views | Blueschev |
| Ed Sheeran on 14:26 - Sep 18 by grow_our_own |
The National Socialist German Workers party horse-shoed from left to right. It all started with f#ckwit anti-Semites' placards and hate-fuelled fairy-tales, and they're mostly held/told by the left today. |
Held and told by who on the left today? Who are you talking about? And despite their name, the Nazi's despised the left and all that they stood for. They were very much a far right party. |  | | |
| Ed Sheeran on 14:34 - Sep 18 with 491 views | positivity |
| Ed Sheeran on 14:26 - Sep 18 by grow_our_own |
The National Socialist German Workers party horse-shoed from left to right. It all started with f#ckwit anti-Semites' placards and hate-fuelled fairy-tales, and they're mostly held/told by the left today. |
i'm sorry, but hitler was definitely far-right!
farage and yaxley-lennon have anti-semitic pasts, they may be pretending to be the israeli government's friend at the moment because they hate muslims more, but they would never ever agree to a 2 state solution.
in comparison, just about every (probably every?) left-wing government in europe is pro a 2 state solution | |
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| Ed Sheeran on 14:36 - Sep 18 with 473 views | grow_our_own |
| Ed Sheeran on 14:20 - Sep 18 by Swansea_Blue |
A pertinent question would be who is circulating this stuff. The first source in Glasser’s selection is from an apparently well-known conspiracy theorist who may historically may have been manipulating Twitter’s algorithm (see https://www.misbar.com/amp/en/ for a discussion of him) and very well could be getting even more boosts now Twitter’s lurched even more into conspiracies.
These sorts of Tweets are being pushed and promoted into people’s feeds even if they don’t follow those sorts of sites. It’s how Twitter is now being used to destabilise communities/countries.
Horrible images of course and I’m not defending them in the slightest, but people need to realise these are not likely representative of the wide population. I’d have thought people would have woken up to the fact that Twitter is a bin fire now and avoid using it and further spread the lies, conspiracies and hate that it seems designed to propagate. Not straightforward though, because the natural instinct is to call out this sort of abuse. |
Agree x is a bin-fire. ITFC has no business making it it's primary conduit. Nobody knows how much cut-through these images have with people. It's possible to overstate and understate. But first and foremost, the reaction must be to condemn them. Not say: "it's not me/us, gov, it's just that little lot over there!" [Post edited 18 Sep 14:37]
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| Ed Sheeran on 14:38 - Sep 18 with 460 views | Blueschev |
| Ed Sheeran on 14:30 - Sep 18 by positivity |
we do, but the israeli people need to vote for them again. you can't just wish for it, it has to happen, so what's the solution? how do you put pressure on netanyahu to call an election?
when netanyahu was voted in, he bolstered hamas against the more peaceable palestinian authority, because perpetual war is the best thing to keep him in power and out of prison.
in these conditions hamas were elected (in gaza, not palestine) because they were (wrongly) seen as the best defence against netanyahu's aggression and expansion |
Olmert was the Prime Minister when Hamas won the election in 2006, having followed Ariel Sharon ( the butcher of Beirut). But your overall point stands, Hamas were voted for by a people desperate. Israel had also humiliated and discredited their factional rival in Fatah. | | | |
| Ed Sheeran on 14:42 - Sep 18 with 442 views | mellowblue |
| Ed Sheeran on 14:15 - Sep 18 by grow_our_own |
There are two sets of people who need to agree to their neighbours existence. You are only pointing your finger at one of them. When the people of Palestine elected an overtly anti-Semitic govt that expressly called for Jew-murder, do you not think they were also part of the problem?
There is no original sin, and "you threw the first stone" will get us nowhere. But the only solution is two states. Anyone who opposes this is part of the problem.
The Israeli people elected Yitzhak Rabin as Prime Minister in the recent past. He was on the path to agreeing a two-state solution. Same goes for the Palestinian people, who elected Yasser Arafat as leader of the PLO around the same time. Need leaders like them again. [Post edited 18 Sep 14:19]
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Arafat was still a barely reformed nasty little terrorist. Who do you think Hamas and Hezbollah are inspired by, yes the paramilitary terrorism of the PLO headed by Arafat. | | | |
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| Ed Sheeran on 14:51 - Sep 18 with 395 views | grow_our_own |
| Ed Sheeran on 14:32 - Sep 18 by Blueschev |
Held and told by who on the left today? Who are you talking about? And despite their name, the Nazi's despised the left and all that they stood for. They were very much a far right party. |
"Held and told by who on the left today?" - at least and not exclusively, attendees of Socialist Worker-organised protests. Eg pretty sure I saw this one in Trafalgar Sq on the the protest I went to:
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| Ed Sheeran on 14:53 - Sep 18 with 386 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Ed Sheeran on 14:15 - Sep 18 by J2BLUE |
I've never taken free Palestine to mean ending Israel.
I think people ignore the two state solution because it's only a solution in theory. It's a useful thing for foreign leaders to say but we all know the current Israeli leadership are never going to accept it. Especially while they have Trump in the White House. If Vance is not the next president and we get a Democrat then it might change a bit but even then, Israel would likely openly ignore any restraints. |
Free Palestine on its own should not be an issue. However when chanted alongside “from the river to the sea” then it’s obviously calling for an end to Israel.
Likewise, when free Palestine is chanted at visibly Jewish people, sprayed on synagogues and Jewish businesses then it has antisemitic intent. I’m also sceptical when it’s chanted by somebody who has an antisemitic history, like Macklemore.
A crucifix is a sign of Christianity. Set fire to it and plant it in the front garden of a house belonging to a family of colour and it takes on a far more sinister meaning. [Post edited 18 Sep 15:11]
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| Ed Sheeran on 15:01 - Sep 18 with 362 views | Ryorry |
| Ed Sheeran on 14:20 - Sep 18 by Swansea_Blue |
A pertinent question would be who is circulating this stuff. The first source in Glasser’s selection is from an apparently well-known conspiracy theorist who may historically may have been manipulating Twitter’s algorithm (see https://www.misbar.com/amp/en/ for a discussion of him) and very well could be getting even more boosts now Twitter’s lurched even more into conspiracies.
These sorts of Tweets are being pushed and promoted into people’s feeds even if they don’t follow those sorts of sites. It’s how Twitter is now being used to destabilise communities/countries.
Horrible images of course and I’m not defending them in the slightest, but people need to realise these are not likely representative of the wide population. I’d have thought people would have woken up to the fact that Twitter is a bin fire now and avoid using it and further spread the lies, conspiracies and hate that it seems designed to propagate. Not straightforward though, because the natural instinct is to call out this sort of abuse. |
I keep hearing people say this about X/Twitter, but all I can say is that I've never sern any of it because I stick with a relatively small number of accounts (approx 1,800) who I follow & who follow me, so my feed is exclusively stuff like physics, art, environment, animals, left wing politics (and The Archers!). Any stray offensive thing that appears occasionally I just block & will never have to see/deal with again.
As I've said many imes before, Twitter/X can be entirely what you make it, but it takes time to build up a good base of interesting & decent accounts - unfortunately many people just don't bother to do that. [Post edited 18 Sep 15:03]
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| Ed Sheeran on 15:06 - Sep 18 with 352 views | positivity |
| Ed Sheeran on 14:53 - Sep 18 by GlasgowBlue |
Free Palestine on its own should not be an issue. However when chanted alongside “from the river to the sea” then it’s obviously calling for an end to Israel.
Likewise, when free Palestine is chanted at visibly Jewish people, sprayed on synagogues and Jewish businesses then it has antisemitic intent. I’m also sceptical when it’s chanted by somebody who has an antisemitic history, like Macklemore.
A crucifix is a sign of Christianity. Set fire to it and plant it in the front garden of a house belonging to a family of colour and it takes on a far more sinister meaning. [Post edited 18 Sep 15:11]
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you might want to edit that, unless you think macklemore's main problem is that he's too clean!
otherwise, agree with the broad brush of the comments, but macklemore's statement in totality was not just free palestine, but supportive of jews in general | |
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| Ed Sheeran on 15:09 - Sep 18 with 343 views | positivity |
| Ed Sheeran on 14:51 - Sep 18 by grow_our_own |
"Held and told by who on the left today?" - at least and not exclusively, attendees of Socialist Worker-organised protests. Eg pretty sure I saw this one in Trafalgar Sq on the the protest I went to:
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that doesn't represent the left in any way, the swp are a tiny, tiny number of odd people.
far more leftwing jews on big gaza marches than swp members! | |
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| Ed Sheeran on 15:09 - Sep 18 with 342 views | Blueschev |
| Ed Sheeran on 14:51 - Sep 18 by grow_our_own |
"Held and told by who on the left today?" - at least and not exclusively, attendees of Socialist Worker-organised protests. Eg pretty sure I saw this one in Trafalgar Sq on the the protest I went to:
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So a picture of one individual in isolation is proof that antisemitism is more prominent on the left than the right? OK. | | | |
| Ed Sheeran on 15:13 - Sep 18 with 320 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Ed Sheeran on 15:06 - Sep 18 by positivity |
you might want to edit that, unless you think macklemore's main problem is that he's too clean!
otherwise, agree with the broad brush of the comments, but macklemore's statement in totality was not just free palestine, but supportive of jews in general |
Thanks. Typing with my left hand on an iPhone after my accident. Re your last point, many Jews found his comments towards them as being patronising. | |
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| Ed Sheeran on 15:14 - Sep 18 with 322 views | balcombeblue |
| Ed Sheeran on 14:53 - Sep 18 by GlasgowBlue |
Free Palestine on its own should not be an issue. However when chanted alongside “from the river to the sea” then it’s obviously calling for an end to Israel.
Likewise, when free Palestine is chanted at visibly Jewish people, sprayed on synagogues and Jewish businesses then it has antisemitic intent. I’m also sceptical when it’s chanted by somebody who has an antisemitic history, like Macklemore.
A crucifix is a sign of Christianity. Set fire to it and plant it in the front garden of a house belonging to a family of colour and it takes on a far more sinister meaning. [Post edited 18 Sep 15:11]
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I am all for a two state solution, but there are significant issues in the region that I just can't ever see going away.
I agree that the current Israeli government doesn't want one. But more than this, I don't see a future where any Israeli government can accept a Palestine which has all the usual arms of state.
This isn't because I don't want Palestine to be free, but it's the serious doubts over whether that state would be able to function alone without being a threat to Israel. Let's face it, other sovereign states in the region are hardly well known for their democratic, liberal and tolerant attitude towards Jews. That stretches much further back into the past than the state of Israel. Remember that Jews have been persecuted by just about everyone for ever. They've been purged from many Arab states, the Holocaust was perpetrated in Europe and so on.
Free Palestine from Israeli control is possible, but the idea it will be a liberal democracy is for the birds. That is also the calculation for as long as Hamas is in 'government'. I do think that practically Palestine has to be free from Hamas first to enable the second to happen. Hence the Impasse.....
Israel made a commitment to look after its people after the Holocaust as they were the only ones that seemingly could. |  | | |
| Ed Sheeran on 15:19 - Sep 18 with 296 views | grow_our_own |
| Ed Sheeran on 15:09 - Sep 18 by positivity |
that doesn't represent the left in any way, the swp are a tiny, tiny number of odd people.
far more leftwing jews on big gaza marches than swp members! |
SWP are pretty central in organising leftist protests. I don't go to every one to tell you how representative the people like photo'd and who I saw are. Again, the correct reaction should be: "I condemn the hateful, anti-semetic f#ckwittery on display", not "ignore, it's just that little lot over there". | | | |
| Ed Sheeran on 15:31 - Sep 18 with 262 views | balcombeblue |
| Ed Sheeran on 15:19 - Sep 18 by grow_our_own |
SWP are pretty central in organising leftist protests. I don't go to every one to tell you how representative the people like photo'd and who I saw are. Again, the correct reaction should be: "I condemn the hateful, anti-semetic f#ckwittery on display", not "ignore, it's just that little lot over there". |
I am with Positivity on this one.
I don't get the whole need to condemn extremists on left or right. It's a given on both sides that 99.9% of people (or whatever percentage) are not extremists.
But, it doesn't seem to stop people labelling others who don't agree with them as extremists or siding with people on the wings of the spectrum. That part doesn't seem balanced. | | | |
| Ed Sheeran on 15:39 - Sep 18 with 231 views | NthQldITFC |
| Ed Sheeran on 12:36 - Sep 18 by grow_our_own |
Because elements on both sides want to completely destroy the other. If you only call for one side to have a state, then you're at least implying you agree with one set of the f#ckwits.
The only solution is two states. Anyone who disagrees with this is part of the problem. |
Somehow there seems to be a misunderstanding over the meaning of the word "free".
"Free [anyone]" should just be the default, but in some cases it needs to be fought for.
"Free A" (who may be currently bombed and disenfranchised to sh!t) in no way implies "Unfree B".
Israel already has a state.
Of course the only solution is two states, however unlikely that seems under the current powers that be. |  |
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| Ed Sheeran on 15:42 - Sep 18 with 215 views | Churchman |
| Ed Sheeran on 14:34 - Sep 18 by positivity |
i'm sorry, but hitler was definitely far-right!
farage and yaxley-lennon have anti-semitic pasts, they may be pretending to be the israeli government's friend at the moment because they hate muslims more, but they would never ever agree to a 2 state solution.
in comparison, just about every (probably every?) left-wing government in europe is pro a 2 state solution |
Pinched from Reddit and the closest I can find to my understanding of the Nazis.
‘Along with Joseph Goebbels, Gottfried Feder and Walther Darré, Ernst Röhm was a prominent member of the party's "socialist" faction. This group took the words "Sozialistische" and "Arbeiter" ("worker") in the party's name literally.
They largely rejected capitalism (which they associated with Jews) and pushed for nationalisation of major industrial firms, expanded worker control, confiscation and redistribution of the estates of the old aristocracy and social equality. Röhm spoke of a "second revolution" against "reactionaries" (the National Socialist label for old-line conservatives), as the National Socialists had previously dealt with the Communists and Socialists.
Rohm was in many ways the personification of the 'original' German National Socialist Worker's party. Hitler betrayed and executed Rohm much as Stalin turned first against the right and then against the left in his party. Both men ultimately were out for themselves and their own personal power, and ideology was just a means to that end.’
I would add Hitler chose the route to embrace the industrialists as a means to his ends. They ruled by never allowing anyone or anything to be too powerful. Contracts were awarded on the basis of compliance and where there were profits to be made, the IG Farbens, Messerschmitt and co embraced it. If you didn’t you were marginalised or worse.
Slave Labour? No problem. Up to 2.7 million slaves and forced labourers (slaves got fed) died in Germany during the war. The German companies who thrived after it, including Volkswagen and famous names were never held to account.
So for me the National Socialists were never right or left wing in the end. They were totalitarian centrists. Control by the centre, ultimately the one structured on race. Perceived aryans at the top, Jews at the bottom. Vermin to be removed or disposed of and in the end even recycled. |  | | |
| Ed Sheeran on 15:42 - Sep 18 with 213 views | grow_our_own |
| Ed Sheeran on 15:31 - Sep 18 by balcombeblue |
I am with Positivity on this one.
I don't get the whole need to condemn extremists on left or right. It's a given on both sides that 99.9% of people (or whatever percentage) are not extremists.
But, it doesn't seem to stop people labelling others who don't agree with them as extremists or siding with people on the wings of the spectrum. That part doesn't seem balanced. |
"It's a given on both sides that 99.9% of people (or whatever percentage) are not extremists" - that's what people said in the 1930s. Dangerous to claim such views are confined to a tiny minority. If ideas like shown on x and at such protests command wider sympathy, then history will repeat. | | | |
| Ed Sheeran on 15:47 - Sep 18 with 197 views | balcombeblue |
| Ed Sheeran on 15:42 - Sep 18 by Churchman |
Pinched from Reddit and the closest I can find to my understanding of the Nazis.
‘Along with Joseph Goebbels, Gottfried Feder and Walther Darré, Ernst Röhm was a prominent member of the party's "socialist" faction. This group took the words "Sozialistische" and "Arbeiter" ("worker") in the party's name literally.
They largely rejected capitalism (which they associated with Jews) and pushed for nationalisation of major industrial firms, expanded worker control, confiscation and redistribution of the estates of the old aristocracy and social equality. Röhm spoke of a "second revolution" against "reactionaries" (the National Socialist label for old-line conservatives), as the National Socialists had previously dealt with the Communists and Socialists.
Rohm was in many ways the personification of the 'original' German National Socialist Worker's party. Hitler betrayed and executed Rohm much as Stalin turned first against the right and then against the left in his party. Both men ultimately were out for themselves and their own personal power, and ideology was just a means to that end.’
I would add Hitler chose the route to embrace the industrialists as a means to his ends. They ruled by never allowing anyone or anything to be too powerful. Contracts were awarded on the basis of compliance and where there were profits to be made, the IG Farbens, Messerschmitt and co embraced it. If you didn’t you were marginalised or worse.
Slave Labour? No problem. Up to 2.7 million slaves and forced labourers (slaves got fed) died in Germany during the war. The German companies who thrived after it, including Volkswagen and famous names were never held to account.
So for me the National Socialists were never right or left wing in the end. They were totalitarian centrists. Control by the centre, ultimately the one structured on race. Perceived aryans at the top, Jews at the bottom. Vermin to be removed or disposed of and in the end even recycled. |
The definition of far-right does move through time though. The Nazi's are no easy to define in that way, but Far-right is sensible (as much as it matters)!
Any comparisons between National Socialism the right-wing nationalism of today though take it way too far. | | | |
| Ed Sheeran on 15:50 - Sep 18 with 191 views | balcombeblue |
| Ed Sheeran on 15:42 - Sep 18 by grow_our_own |
"It's a given on both sides that 99.9% of people (or whatever percentage) are not extremists" - that's what people said in the 1930s. Dangerous to claim such views are confined to a tiny minority. If ideas like shown on x and at such protests command wider sympathy, then history will repeat. |
Fair comment. I suppose here, it's a case of assuming everyone on this forum isn't an extremist.
I don't get the sense that either extreme racial nationalism or Marxist-Leninist communism. Maybe I am naive! | | | |
| Ed Sheeran on 15:50 - Sep 18 with 191 views | positivity |
| Ed Sheeran on 15:19 - Sep 18 by grow_our_own |
SWP are pretty central in organising leftist protests. I don't go to every one to tell you how representative the people like photo'd and who I saw are. Again, the correct reaction should be: "I condemn the hateful, anti-semetic f#ckwittery on display", not "ignore, it's just that little lot over there". |
no-one's said to ignore it, call it out everywhere.
however it doesn't prove in anyway that the far right is less antisemitic than the left! | |
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| Ed Sheeran on 15:56 - Sep 18 with 162 views | positivity |
| Ed Sheeran on 15:42 - Sep 18 by Churchman |
Pinched from Reddit and the closest I can find to my understanding of the Nazis.
‘Along with Joseph Goebbels, Gottfried Feder and Walther Darré, Ernst Röhm was a prominent member of the party's "socialist" faction. This group took the words "Sozialistische" and "Arbeiter" ("worker") in the party's name literally.
They largely rejected capitalism (which they associated with Jews) and pushed for nationalisation of major industrial firms, expanded worker control, confiscation and redistribution of the estates of the old aristocracy and social equality. Röhm spoke of a "second revolution" against "reactionaries" (the National Socialist label for old-line conservatives), as the National Socialists had previously dealt with the Communists and Socialists.
Rohm was in many ways the personification of the 'original' German National Socialist Worker's party. Hitler betrayed and executed Rohm much as Stalin turned first against the right and then against the left in his party. Both men ultimately were out for themselves and their own personal power, and ideology was just a means to that end.’
I would add Hitler chose the route to embrace the industrialists as a means to his ends. They ruled by never allowing anyone or anything to be too powerful. Contracts were awarded on the basis of compliance and where there were profits to be made, the IG Farbens, Messerschmitt and co embraced it. If you didn’t you were marginalised or worse.
Slave Labour? No problem. Up to 2.7 million slaves and forced labourers (slaves got fed) died in Germany during the war. The German companies who thrived after it, including Volkswagen and famous names were never held to account.
So for me the National Socialists were never right or left wing in the end. They were totalitarian centrists. Control by the centre, ultimately the one structured on race. Perceived aryans at the top, Jews at the bottom. Vermin to be removed or disposed of and in the end even recycled. |
they were definitely far right, they define far right. crushing the unions was a big part of their mo
as the poem goes:-
"First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a socialist.
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me."
the far right today may be going for the muslims first, but you can bet that the trade unionists, the jews and the "woke" will be high up on the list after (or along with) that | |
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