| Lucy Letby; C5 docu last night, new evidence. Appeal has to be allowed surely .. 02:13 - Sep 22 with 2776 views | Ryorry |
1. Police thought there was no indication any crime had even been committed, till a doctor at the hospital informed them that he'd gone into the ward & discovered her standing over a baby in distress for whom the alarm had been been turned off, but she was doing nothing to help them.
Now turns out that he'd emailed colleagues at the same time saying it was her who called his attention to the baby in distress, and that the alarm was still working. Has admitted he's changed his mind re his original statement to police.
2. Key evidence for the prosecution (because the only extant scientific evidence) was totally flawed.
a) Info re baby O's blood sugar level for April 9th, which showed it to be normal - thus proving insulin couldn't have been administered that day by Letby or anyone else - was not presented to the trial, but it was presented for April 8th, 10th, 11th & 12th.
b) Consultant pulmonologist said it would have been impossible to kill babies via the air injection method cited at the trial. There was actually handwritten timeline evidence by one of the doctors at the hospital that it was his injection catching part of one baby's liver which had already been damaged during birth, which was likely to be the significant factor in their death.
3. One of the parents whose baby died said it was entirely due to faecal infection (there was faecal matter coming out of the taps on the ward on a regular basis), but similar to several other babies' deaths at the hospital when Letby was not present, this was not recorded - because although the infant contracted the infection at the Countess of Chester Hospital, they were bluelighted away to a bigger hospital in Manchester to be treated, but sadly died anyway, so the deaths were recorded there & not included in stats for the CoC.
4. The jurors and court were told that all the babies who died were well and stable, so the only cause of death could have been deliberate harm. A senior nurse working on the ward at the time said this was manifestly untrue - the babies were all 'category 3' - the highest level of prematurity/illness/vulnerability - which the CoC Hosp was totally unequipped to deal with, particularly in extraordinary levels of understaffing.
A newspaper which most on here understandably shun, said it set out to prove Letby guilty in this docu, but actually ended up finding the complete opposite,
https://www.channel5.com/show/
[Post edited 22 Sep 3:27]
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| Lucy Letby; C5 docu last night, new evidence. Appeal has to be allowed surely .. on 11:54 - Sep 22 with 404 views | balcombeblue |
| Lucy Letby; C5 docu last night, new evidence. Appeal has to be allowed surely .. on 11:50 - Sep 22 by The_Romford_Blue |
It does though. Because nobody pictures a young pretty white girl from a privileged upbringing to be someone who’s capable of murdering babies. It’s subconscious bias to want her to be innocent.
If she was a 50 year old bloke from abroad working over here, there would be absolutely far less coverage of this case and the ‘oh she must be innocent’ brigade.
Likewise for Madeline McCanns parents not to get in any bother when they left her alone. Media treat them like they’re heroes searching for their littlun rather than anybody bother to hold them to account. Because they were rich white people. Again if that was a couple from a council estate who’d left their daughter to go on a sesh in a different country, the outcry would’ve been far higher.
Subconscious bias. |
It's extraordinary to be able to this through the prism of prejudice/race. In my view, that's the true prejudice.
For once I don't really know what to say! |  | | |
| Lucy Letby; C5 docu last night, new evidence. Appeal has to be allowed surely .. on 11:56 - Sep 22 with 397 views | Trequartista |
| Lucy Letby; C5 docu last night, new evidence. Appeal has to be allowed surely .. on 11:50 - Sep 22 by The_Romford_Blue |
It does though. Because nobody pictures a young pretty white girl from a privileged upbringing to be someone who’s capable of murdering babies. It’s subconscious bias to want her to be innocent.
If she was a 50 year old bloke from abroad working over here, there would be absolutely far less coverage of this case and the ‘oh she must be innocent’ brigade.
Likewise for Madeline McCanns parents not to get in any bother when they left her alone. Media treat them like they’re heroes searching for their littlun rather than anybody bother to hold them to account. Because they were rich white people. Again if that was a couple from a council estate who’d left their daughter to go on a sesh in a different country, the outcry would’ve been far higher.
Subconscious bias. |
Yes I agree what you describe does happen, but I feel in this particular case, there have been enough respectable people, whether that be health professionals or others that have looked deeply into it, beyond the inevitable conspiracy theorists, to cast doubt on the safety of the verdict. [Post edited 22 Sep 12:15]
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| Lucy Letby; C5 docu last night, new evidence. Appeal has to be allowed surely .. on 12:01 - Sep 22 with 371 views | BlueandTruesince82 |
| Lucy Letby; C5 docu last night, new evidence. Appeal has to be allowed surely .. on 11:50 - Sep 22 by The_Romford_Blue |
It does though. Because nobody pictures a young pretty white girl from a privileged upbringing to be someone who’s capable of murdering babies. It’s subconscious bias to want her to be innocent.
If she was a 50 year old bloke from abroad working over here, there would be absolutely far less coverage of this case and the ‘oh she must be innocent’ brigade.
Likewise for Madeline McCanns parents not to get in any bother when they left her alone. Media treat them like they’re heroes searching for their littlun rather than anybody bother to hold them to account. Because they were rich white people. Again if that was a couple from a council estate who’d left their daughter to go on a sesh in a different country, the outcry would’ve been far higher.
Subconscious bias. |
But when the preeminent expert in the relevant field says the prosecutions star expert witness doesnt understand my work (which is what he used as the basis for his conclusions), has it wrong and has misinterpreted it and that statement is backed by a panel of other experts surely you havr me to ask questions of the safety of the verdict?
I agree that her background may well mean that this case gets more attention but that doesnt mean she is guilty. |  |
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| Lucy Letby; C5 docu last night, new evidence. Appeal has to be allowed surely .. on 12:33 - Sep 22 with 319 views | OldFart71 |
I was in conversation with a very reliable source that claimed her daughter was having a baby and was being overseen by Letby. She continually tried to get the mother away from the baby but didn't succeed. Now whether that proves anything or not is open to debate.
My take on all the things that go on whether in hospitals or where the battering and killing of children by parents unsuitable to have them in the first place is that despite the number of times we have heard "We will learn from this tragedy" they never do.
But there are reasons. Lack of proper training, lack of personnel and the threat that if they are wrong they will be in trouble. |  | | |
| Lucy Letby; C5 docu last night, new evidence. Appeal has to be allowed surely .. on 12:41 - Sep 22 with 299 views | Ryorry |
| Lucy Letby; C5 docu last night, new evidence. Appeal has to be allowed surely .. on 11:50 - Sep 22 by The_Romford_Blue |
It does though. Because nobody pictures a young pretty white girl from a privileged upbringing to be someone who’s capable of murdering babies. It’s subconscious bias to want her to be innocent.
If she was a 50 year old bloke from abroad working over here, there would be absolutely far less coverage of this case and the ‘oh she must be innocent’ brigade.
Likewise for Madeline McCanns parents not to get in any bother when they left her alone. Media treat them like they’re heroes searching for their littlun rather than anybody bother to hold them to account. Because they were rich white people. Again if that was a couple from a council estate who’d left their daughter to go on a sesh in a different country, the outcry would’ve been far higher.
Subconscious bias. |
This is absolutely shocking prejudice (and failure to read all the evidence) by you.
Gobsmacking. | |
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| Lucy Letby; C5 docu last night, new evidence. Appeal has to be allowed surely .. on 12:58 - Sep 22 with 260 views | Bluemike31 |
| Lucy Letby; C5 docu last night, new evidence. Appeal has to be allowed surely .. on 11:23 - Sep 22 by The_Romford_Blue |
The desperation from people on here as well as society in general for her to be innocent is really disturbing to me.
I get it. She’s a soft looking young white nurse. The idea of her coldly killing innocent babies is almost in fathomable and, as such, we just all want her to be not guilty. I followed this case from before it made the public domain as a journo I know had got wind of it. And the trials and the evidence make it almost impossible for her to be not guilty. Just because she doesn’t look like she’d be capable of murdering babies, doesn’t mean she didn’t. |
Totally get where you are coming from and I agree, although the "white" reference will upset people.
Put it this way, how many of these people who are adamant Letby is innocent blah blah blah would leave their baby Grandchildren with her ? NONE, that's how many. | | | |
| Lucy Letby; C5 docu last night, new evidence. Appeal has to be allowed surely .. on 13:02 - Sep 22 with 253 views | _CliveBaker_ |
| Lucy Letby; C5 docu last night, new evidence. Appeal has to be allowed surely .. on 11:23 - Sep 22 by The_Romford_Blue |
The desperation from people on here as well as society in general for her to be innocent is really disturbing to me.
I get it. She’s a soft looking young white nurse. The idea of her coldly killing innocent babies is almost in fathomable and, as such, we just all want her to be not guilty. I followed this case from before it made the public domain as a journo I know had got wind of it. And the trials and the evidence make it almost impossible for her to be not guilty. Just because she doesn’t look like she’d be capable of murdering babies, doesn’t mean she didn’t. |
Ridiculous comment. I don't remember many people calling to free Myra Hindley.
Its not a 'desperation' for her to be innocent, I think its more an appetite for her to stand a fair trial. I'm not opining on whether she's guilty or not, but given the inconsistencies and subsequent discreditation of the evidence upon which she was convicted, its not a stretch to say she perhaps hasn't had one. Call me selfish but I'm less concerned about Letby's fate tbh, but more so the integrity of the justice system. |  | | |
| Lucy Letby; C5 docu last night, new evidence. Appeal has to be allowed surely .. on 13:03 - Sep 22 with 253 views | PhilTWTD |
| Lucy Letby; C5 docu last night, new evidence. Appeal has to be allowed surely .. on 11:23 - Sep 22 by The_Romford_Blue |
The desperation from people on here as well as society in general for her to be innocent is really disturbing to me.
I get it. She’s a soft looking young white nurse. The idea of her coldly killing innocent babies is almost in fathomable and, as such, we just all want her to be not guilty. I followed this case from before it made the public domain as a journo I know had got wind of it. And the trials and the evidence make it almost impossible for her to be not guilty. Just because she doesn’t look like she’d be capable of murdering babies, doesn’t mean she didn’t. |
But the argument is that the evidence was tailored so the jury would reach that verdict. Evidence which from a variety of angles is now disputed by experts in their field, medical and statistical among them, to the extent where it can't be viewed as reliable. |  | | |
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| Lucy Letby; C5 docu last night, new evidence. Appeal has to be allowed surely .. on 13:08 - Sep 22 with 233 views | LeoMuff |
I’m not sure of her innocence or guilt but two things that o find odd are that 200 medical handover sheets were found kept under her bed, that is very strange
Also Facebook searches were done on the bereaved families some time after the events in question
Now not proof of guilt, but two very odd and concerning occurrences that are hard to explain away |  |
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| Lucy Letby; C5 docu last night, new evidence. Appeal has to be allowed surely .. on 13:15 - Sep 22 with 209 views | Ryorry |
| Lucy Letby; C5 docu last night, new evidence. Appeal has to be allowed surely .. on 12:01 - Sep 22 by BlueandTruesince82 |
But when the preeminent expert in the relevant field says the prosecutions star expert witness doesnt understand my work (which is what he used as the basis for his conclusions), has it wrong and has misinterpreted it and that statement is backed by a panel of other experts surely you havr me to ask questions of the safety of the verdict?
I agree that her background may well mean that this case gets more attention but that doesnt mean she is guilty. |
Agree with you on all of that, except the case getting so much attention is overwhelmingly because it immediately struck specialist doctors, lawyers, and senior police officers that so much of the prosecution evidence was totally flawed; that Letby’s defence team made mistakes, and that serious failings in multiple ways by the CoC hospital were scandalously ignored at trial.
Can’t recall in my long lifetime many such huge bodies of evidence indicating an unsafe conviction. That includes no such public concern for Beverly Allit (another “female, young, pretty, white” nurse who was convicted of murdering several infants and children).
I’d add that quite apart from another appalling potential miscarriage of justice in England, the focus on finding a “murderer” in this case distracted from any failings by the hospital in this case, potentially leading to further risks for other infants in that unit. As I said in my OP, the police who investigated at the time didn’t even consider that any crime had been committed. Only the alert by two doctors there (who have since retracted) turned the cases into a criminal investigation.
The CoC has now been downgraded in its ability to admit or care for unwell neonatal babies. [Post edited 22 Sep 13:38]
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| Lucy Letby; C5 docu last night, new evidence. Appeal has to be allowed surely .. on 13:19 - Sep 22 with 194 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Lucy Letby; C5 docu last night, new evidence. Appeal has to be allowed surely .. on 12:01 - Sep 22 by BlueandTruesince82 |
But when the preeminent expert in the relevant field says the prosecutions star expert witness doesnt understand my work (which is what he used as the basis for his conclusions), has it wrong and has misinterpreted it and that statement is backed by a panel of other experts surely you havr me to ask questions of the safety of the verdict?
I agree that her background may well mean that this case gets more attention but that doesnt mean she is guilty. |
That's not accurate though. Read the appeal judgment. All dealt with there. It was one small issue. | |
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| Lucy Letby; C5 docu last night, new evidence. Appeal has to be allowed surely .. on 13:34 - Sep 22 with 149 views | Ryorry |
| Lucy Letby; C5 docu last night, new evidence. Appeal has to be allowed surely .. on 13:19 - Sep 22 by redrickstuhaart |
That's not accurate though. Read the appeal judgment. All dealt with there. It was one small issue. |
You’re not accurate.
*The appeal judgment*.. All certainly *not* dealt with there, there were multiple serious issues. | |
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| Lucy Letby; C5 docu last night, new evidence. Appeal has to be allowed surely .. on 13:40 - Sep 22 with 124 views | balcombeblue |
| Lucy Letby; C5 docu last night, new evidence. Appeal has to be allowed surely .. on 13:34 - Sep 22 by Ryorry |
You’re not accurate.
*The appeal judgment*.. All certainly *not* dealt with there, there were multiple serious issues. |
That court seems very much procedural in a case like this. Always going to refer to CCRC | | | |
| Lucy Letby; C5 docu last night, new evidence. Appeal has to be allowed surely .. on 14:15 - Sep 22 with 76 views | DJR |
| Lucy Letby; C5 docu last night, new evidence. Appeal has to be allowed surely .. on 10:36 - Sep 22 by Blueschev |
I'm not convinced by the verdict of the trial, but I'm nowhere near qualified to make a definitive judgement.
Private Eye aside, I'm concerned by the motives of many of those declaring it a miscarriage of justice, given their views on anything else (Peter Hitchens, Nadine Dorries, David Davis et al). |
Depending on one's viewpoint, Private Eye and MD didn't come out ofmthe MMR controversy well.
https://www.spiked-online.com/ [Post edited 22 Sep 14:18]
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| Lucy Letby; C5 docu last night, new evidence. Appeal has to be allowed surely .. on 14:19 - Sep 22 with 63 views | balcombeblue |
| Lucy Letby; C5 docu last night, new evidence. Appeal has to be allowed surely .. on 14:15 - Sep 22 by DJR |
Depending on one's viewpoint, Private Eye and MD didn't come out ofmthe MMR controversy well.
https://www.spiked-online.com/ [Post edited 22 Sep 14:18]
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It’s always a mix of success for a private Eye, which is not surprising given what they do. You can alway be right unless it’s milk and toast journalism.
Are you able to comment of what the Appeals Court does and doesn’t look at in the first instance? I assume it’s nothing like as thorough as a case review, with the court very reluctant to overturn the verdict if a jury? | | | |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 14:29 - Sep 22 with 43 views | balcombeblue |
| Lucy Letby; C5 docu last night, new evidence. Appeal has to be allowed surely .. on 14:15 - Sep 22 by DJR |
Depending on one's viewpoint, Private Eye and MD didn't come out ofmthe MMR controversy well.
https://www.spiked-online.com/ [Post edited 22 Sep 14:18]
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| Lucy Letby; C5 docu last night, new evidence. Appeal has to be allowed surely .. on 14:34 - Sep 22 with 33 views | DJR |
| Lucy Letby; C5 docu last night, new evidence. Appeal has to be allowed surely .. on 14:19 - Sep 22 by balcombeblue |
It’s always a mix of success for a private Eye, which is not surprising given what they do. You can alway be right unless it’s milk and toast journalism.
Are you able to comment of what the Appeals Court does and doesn’t look at in the first instance? I assume it’s nothing like as thorough as a case review, with the court very reluctant to overturn the verdict if a jury? |
Yes, it is not always right but I think it is the best media outlook there is at discovering wrong --doing and the like. And in my view it does it regardless of party.
And it rarely get sued by those it exposes.
As regards your second paragraph, I don't really have much knowledge of the criminal law judicial system. [Post edited 22 Sep 14:39]
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