| Goalkeeper recruitment 17:53 - Nov 8 with 1204 views | kizaitfc |
How did we not learn from last time.
To stay in the prem you need a solid goalkeeper we yet again went into the untested market based on statistics and it has failed again.
We could have gone for any of the following
Ramsdale
Pope
Dubravka
Traverse
Darlow
I don't want to pile on the error today too much but it was actually the reaction to it that was worse. We resorted to just pumping the ball forwards and being too scared to play the ball out quickly
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| Goalkeeper recruitment on 18:09 - Nov 8 | chantryblueboy |
None of the keepers you’ve named are better than what we’ve got. Darlow ffs  | | | |
| Goalkeeper recruitment on 18:18 - Nov 8 | bsw72 |
I think it's more about exposure. A keeper at a side that spends ninety minutes under pressure faces more shots, more crosses, more balls into the box and more moments where he's forced to play out under a press. The more often you're asked to make a decision, the more often you'll get one wrong.
The modern game makes that worse. Keepers are now expected to be the first line of the build-up as well as the last line of defence, which means more touches, more risk and more chances for errors that never used to be charged to a goalkeeper. Put that demand on a keeper whose team can't keep the ball and the mistakes pile up quickly.
Compare that with a keeper at one of the top sides. He might face two or three shots in a game, most of them from distance, and when he plays it out he's got defenders who are comfortable on the ball and midfielders offering an easy pass. He can go long spells barely touched, so his error count stays low and his reputation stays intact. Swap the two keepers and I'd bet the numbers would follow the team more rather than the player specifically.
We anre a good example. Our style leaves us open on the break, and we concede more quality chances than almost anyone, so Walton (or Scherpen etc) is constantly in the firing line. Judge them on mistakes alone and you're really judging the system in front of him.
The simple truth is that in modern football, a keeper's error count says as much about how much pressure his team is under as it does about his ability. |  | | |
| Goalkeeper recruitment on 19:37 - Nov 8 | kizaitfc |
| Goalkeeper recruitment on 18:09 - Nov 8 by chantryblueboy |
None of the keepers you’ve named are better than what we’ve got. Darlow ffs |
Darlow is far superior to Walton
There is a reason he has stayed in the prem for as long as he has | |
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| Goalkeeper recruitment on 20:28 - Nov 8 | chantryblueboy |
| Goalkeeper recruitment on 19:37 - Nov 8 by kizaitfc |
Darlow is far superior to Walton
There is a reason he has stayed in the prem for as long as he has |
Yeah, because he’s happy to sit on the bench | | | |
| Goalkeeper recruitment on 21:10 - Nov 8 | Facefacts |
We'd probably need a top 3 keeper to keep us up. No way would a keeper of that ability join us. Pickford for example. We just need to hoof it long and challenge the prima donna defenders with our two up front. Keep the ball away from our third of the field.
The Brentford game last time around was when I thought we'd be relegated, 2-0 up and lost 4-3.
I actually thought we'd be relegated after the Man Utd game this season, 1-0 up and lost 5-2. So, even earlier in the season.
The team doesn't recover from the setbacks and soft goals conceded. It carries over into the next game. The tactics don't change as we recruit players to play a certain way. We have paid out a lot for players who will have little or no re-sale value. The same thing happens to us game after game. All the other Premier League teams are better than us at our tactics. We couldn't beat Hull City.
Also, you have to get 25 - 28 points by Christmas to set yourself up for a more challenging second half of the season (more players are out injured, teams have worked us out even more).
Goalkeeper recruitment only a small part of our problems. |  | | |
| Goalkeeper recruitment on 21:33 - Nov 8 | kizaitfc |
| Goalkeeper recruitment on 20:28 - Nov 8 by chantryblueboy |
Yeah, because he’s happy to sit on the bench |
Walton sat on our bench for pretty much two years with Hladky, Muric and Palmer in front of him.
So not really sure what your point is! [Post edited 8 Nov 21:33]
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| Goalkeeper recruitment on 21:35 - Nov 8 | PrideOfTheEast |
| Goalkeeper recruitment on 18:09 - Nov 8 by chantryblueboy |
None of the keepers you’ve named are better than what we’ve got. Darlow ffs |
Well they are | | | |
| Goalkeeper recruitment on 21:36 - Nov 8 | FrimleyBlue |
| Goalkeeper recruitment on 21:10 - Nov 8 by Facefacts |
We'd probably need a top 3 keeper to keep us up. No way would a keeper of that ability join us. Pickford for example. We just need to hoof it long and challenge the prima donna defenders with our two up front. Keep the ball away from our third of the field.
The Brentford game last time around was when I thought we'd be relegated, 2-0 up and lost 4-3.
I actually thought we'd be relegated after the Man Utd game this season, 1-0 up and lost 5-2. So, even earlier in the season.
The team doesn't recover from the setbacks and soft goals conceded. It carries over into the next game. The tactics don't change as we recruit players to play a certain way. We have paid out a lot for players who will have little or no re-sale value. The same thing happens to us game after game. All the other Premier League teams are better than us at our tactics. We couldn't beat Hull City.
Also, you have to get 25 - 28 points by Christmas to set yourself up for a more challenging second half of the season (more players are out injured, teams have worked us out even more).
Goalkeeper recruitment only a small part of our problems. |
Just bring scherpen back in
Allow him to utilise his long throws
Ask him not to worry about playing ball to defenders feet
Let him work with his defenders to understand when to come and when not too. |  |
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| Goalkeeper recruitment on 21:37 - Nov 8 | Plums |
Many of us would have bought Rushworth in the summer if he'd been available.
Imagine how unhappy we'd have been with that.
I was speaking with an Ajax fan the other week and he described Scherpen as being one of the most talented keepers but who has never seemed to kick on. We've clearly seen that potential - it's up to the coaching team to get it out of him now we've invested. |  |
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| Goalkeeper recruitment on 21:42 - Nov 8 | FrimleyBlue |
| Goalkeeper recruitment on 21:37 - Nov 8 by Plums |
Many of us would have bought Rushworth in the summer if he'd been available.
Imagine how unhappy we'd have been with that.
I was speaking with an Ajax fan the other week and he described Scherpen as being one of the most talented keepers but who has never seemed to kick on. We've clearly seen that potential - it's up to the coaching team to get it out of him now we've invested. |
I dont get the comments from oneil about training
In training christian is the better keeper
Some players are great trainers. Some arent.
Some players need match minutes as Scherpen said to gain confidence | |
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| Goalkeeper recruitment on 21:54 - Nov 8 | grow_our_own |
Most keepers still have legacy skills. It's only relatively recently, prob since Pep's playing out dominated trophies and all pitches became pristine hybrids, have keepers needed good feet. Most are still from an era where they're just not comfortable enough on the ball.
This is why it's so sad that Van Oevelen's Valencia adventure has become such a disaster. I think now is the time for a new breed of young keepers. Arsenal are the best team in the country, and their sweeper-keepers are 6ft and 6ft 1" respectively. Both quick off their line, happy to have backpasses fired at them, and are adept at luring-in strikers to create 10 vs 9 outfielder situations.
Right now, with this dawn of a new era in goalkeeping, I think experience is extremely overrated. What's more important is having a pedigree of playing as a sweeper-keeper from a young age. Other than KVO, I think our keeper recruitment has been outdated. We've been buying giant steam engines in the era of the bullet train. [Post edited 8 Nov 21:56]
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| Goalkeeper recruitment on 22:11 - Nov 8 | mrfixit426 |
At what point do we look at Gilmartin? We've had a succession of goalkeepers over the last 4 or 5 years who don't seem to improve, and don't seem to be able to play at the very highest level.
Surely there is an underlying issue here, and the goalkeeping coaching team has been the only constant. I don't know how much he's instrumental in the recruitment though. |  | | |
| Goalkeeper recruitment on 22:19 - Nov 8 | FrimleyBlue |
| Goalkeeper recruitment on 22:11 - Nov 8 by mrfixit426 |
At what point do we look at Gilmartin? We've had a succession of goalkeepers over the last 4 or 5 years who don't seem to improve, and don't seem to be able to play at the very highest level.
Surely there is an underlying issue here, and the goalkeeping coaching team has been the only constant. I don't know how much he's instrumental in the recruitment though. |
He was a back up for scott loach ffs. Spent most his time in league 1
A prem side with a gk coach who didnt even play top level football. Its like the kitman who coached our strikers.
https://www.goalkeeper.com/new | |
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| Goalkeeper recruitment on 22:32 - Nov 8 | NedPlimpton |
| Goalkeeper recruitment on 22:19 - Nov 8 by FrimleyBlue |
He was a back up for scott loach ffs. Spent most his time in league 1
A prem side with a gk coach who didnt even play top level football. Its like the kitman who coached our strikers.
https://www.goalkeeper.com/new |
Don't think the GK coach needs to have played top level football to be honest.
Bit like how McKenna hadn't either, and he turned out alright |  | | |
| Goalkeeper recruitment on 22:35 - Nov 8 | DJR |
| Goalkeeper recruitment on 21:36 - Nov 8 by FrimleyBlue |
Just bring scherpen back in
Allow him to utilise his long throws
Ask him not to worry about playing ball to defenders feet
Let him work with his defenders to understand when to come and when not too. |
As an aside, Stuart Watson said on Thursday's podcast that he had been told in the summer that Scherpen hadn't been bought as the No.1 keeper.
Instead, he was bought with the chance of competing with Walton for the No.1 spot which didn't happen because Walton was injured, and so Scherpen had to start the season. [Post edited 8 Nov 22:35]
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| Goalkeeper recruitment on 22:35 - Nov 8 | Plums |
| Goalkeeper recruitment on 22:32 - Nov 8 by NedPlimpton |
Don't think the GK coach needs to have played top level football to be honest.
Bit like how McKenna hadn't either, and he turned out alright |
Agree, many excellent coaches in many walks of life have never performed at an elite level. It's their impact that counts. | |
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| Goalkeeper recruitment on 22:38 - Nov 8 | mrfixit426 |
| Goalkeeper recruitment on 22:32 - Nov 8 by NedPlimpton |
Don't think the GK coach needs to have played top level football to be honest.
Bit like how McKenna hadn't either, and he turned out alright |
I agree with this, and the article that Frimley linked is an interesting read. He certainly talks a good game. However, the proof of the pudding is in the eating, and I've yet to see any successes in Gilmartin's history, unlike Kieran. | | | |
| Goalkeeper recruitment on 22:40 - Nov 8 | FrimleyBlue |
| Goalkeeper recruitment on 22:32 - Nov 8 by NedPlimpton |
Don't think the GK coach needs to have played top level football to be honest.
Bit like how McKenna hadn't either, and he turned out alright |
I disagree. Its a specialist position in the top flight. You should have top level experience to be able to coach gks in it imo.
KM turned out ok as he was concentrating on style and utilising players in different ways. He has coaches to do stuff for him... however as shown even then our keepers under gene havent developed or been that great. Even worse once we got to the prem. | |
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| Goalkeeper recruitment on 22:50 - Nov 8 | Plums |
| Goalkeeper recruitment on 22:40 - Nov 8 by FrimleyBlue |
I disagree. Its a specialist position in the top flight. You should have top level experience to be able to coach gks in it imo.
KM turned out ok as he was concentrating on style and utilising players in different ways. He has coaches to do stuff for him... however as shown even then our keepers under gene havent developed or been that great. Even worse once we got to the prem. |
Surely we don't have just one GK coach? | |
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| Goalkeeper recruitment on 23:03 - Nov 8 | FrimleyBlue |
| Goalkeeper recruitment on 22:50 - Nov 8 by Plums |
Surely we don't have just one GK coach? |
Gene looks after first team with Button. Haha
Then there is an u21 one and an u18 one
So our prem standard keepers are being coached by a keeper who played back up to scott loach and button. | |
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| Goalkeeper recruitment on 23:11 - Nov 8 | chantryblueboy |
| Goalkeeper recruitment on 21:33 - Nov 8 by kizaitfc |
Walton sat on our bench for pretty much two years with Hladky, Muric and Palmer in front of him.
So not really sure what your point is! [Post edited 8 Nov 21:33]
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Yeah, if my point was about Walton sticking around here then him being happy to fight for his place would have been a good rebuttal but it wasn’t. You’re saying Darlow is still playing top flight because of his quality - he’s made 63 Prem appearances in 12 years. Shall we go for Scott Carson or Richard Wright as well? | | | |
| Goalkeeper recruitment on 01:29 - Nov 9 | ParisBlue |
Ultimately we need to spend £20m+ on a keeper but we haven't.
It's no coincidence that our better players cost upwards of £20m. Its the premier league. £10m doesnt get you much nowadays.
It's bonkers. |  |
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| Goalkeeper recruitment on 02:00 - Nov 9 | itfctilidie |
| Goalkeeper recruitment on 22:40 - Nov 8 by FrimleyBlue |
I disagree. Its a specialist position in the top flight. You should have top level experience to be able to coach gks in it imo.
KM turned out ok as he was concentrating on style and utilising players in different ways. He has coaches to do stuff for him... however as shown even then our keepers under gene havent developed or been that great. Even worse once we got to the prem. |
And yet the champions of England have a goalkeeping coach who played no higher than Barcelona C |  | | |
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