| I see Eddie Jones is offering some advice..... 08:36 - Sep 6 with 7082 views | christiand |
to Gareth Southgate about the best way forward for England. In a way, both the rugby and football teams are in a similar position that both have the most money at their disposal with the National coach having a decent pool of players to select from. Nothing about ability, it's all to do with changing their mentality, getting them out of their comfort zone and overcoming their fear of failure. I believe that in top level sport there are a lot of similarities to achieve success, although the game maybe different the mental challenge is still very much the same. |  |
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| I see Eddie Jones is offering some advice..... on 08:38 - Sep 6 with 4998 views | hype313 |
The difference between the two is that the Rugby team have world class players in most positions, we have none in the football team. |  |
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| I see Eddie Jones is offering some advice..... on 08:38 - Sep 6 with 4993 views | Ftnfwest |
Cut the number of competitive countries to about 10 would be a good start |  | | |
| I see Eddie Jones is offering some advice..... on 08:45 - Sep 6 with 4976 views | homer_123 |
| I see Eddie Jones is offering some advice..... on 08:38 - Sep 6 by hype313 |
The difference between the two is that the Rugby team have world class players in most positions, we have none in the football team. |
Yet, we can safely say that we have very good players in all positions.
If we could play as a team to our strengths we'd do alright and stand a much better chance of winning something. |  |
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| I see Eddie Jones is offering some advice..... on 08:54 - Sep 6 with 4944 views | christiand |
| I see Eddie Jones is offering some advice..... on 08:38 - Sep 6 by hype313 |
The difference between the two is that the Rugby team have world class players in most positions, we have none in the football team. |
EJ is completely right, mentality is more important than ability. Many players are beaten even before they cross that white line. I look at the Lions tour this summer and although we had a very decent squad, NZ have many outstanding players (sometimes two in certain positions) and play together regularly. The odds were stacked heavily against the lions, but they had that belief they could do it, even though history was against them too. There are many sporting examples when things have been won against the odds - Look at Greece in 2004 when they won the Euros, they had better players than Portugal? No, but collectively as a team they believed they could do it! Yes they need some level of ability, but having that right mental attitude is the deciding factor which makes the difference IMO. | |
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| I see Eddie Jones is offering some advice..... on 09:22 - Sep 6 with 4872 views | chicoazul |
| I see Eddie Jones is offering some advice..... on 08:45 - Sep 6 by homer_123 |
Yet, we can safely say that we have very good players in all positions.
If we could play as a team to our strengths we'd do alright and stand a much better chance of winning something. |
Hahaha no we don't. If we did then Man City Chelsea and Man Utd would be full of English players. The simple fact is the current generation of players is not very good. Can you see Henderson and Dier playing centre midfield for Germany? |  |
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| I see Eddie Jones is offering some advice..... on 09:30 - Sep 6 with 4853 views | homer_123 |
| I see Eddie Jones is offering some advice..... on 09:22 - Sep 6 by chicoazul |
Hahaha no we don't. If we did then Man City Chelsea and Man Utd would be full of English players. The simple fact is the current generation of players is not very good. Can you see Henderson and Dier playing centre midfield for Germany? |
Can you see Henderson and Dier playing centre midfield for Germany?
No, but that's my point - we don't have world class players, we have very good players.
I disagree with you - we have very good players in all positions - they aren't world class though. | |
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| I see Eddie Jones is offering some advice..... on 09:30 - Sep 6 with 4853 views | hype313 |
| I see Eddie Jones is offering some advice..... on 09:22 - Sep 6 by chicoazul |
Hahaha no we don't. If we did then Man City Chelsea and Man Utd would be full of English players. The simple fact is the current generation of players is not very good. Can you see Henderson and Dier playing centre midfield for Germany? |
Was having this conversation the other day about the current team and England Italia 90 team.
Shilton
Parker
Pearce
Wright
Walker
Butcher
Beardsley
Waddle
Gascoigne
Barnes
Platt
How many of the current lot would get in that team? | |
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| I see Eddie Jones is offering some advice..... on 09:35 - Sep 6 with 4843 views | chicoazul |
| I see Eddie Jones is offering some advice..... on 09:30 - Sep 6 by homer_123 |
Can you see Henderson and Dier playing centre midfield for Germany?
No, but that's my point - we don't have world class players, we have very good players.
I disagree with you - we have very good players in all positions - they aren't world class though. |
We really don't. Joe Hart is not very good. Ryan Bertrand is not very good. Danny Welbeck is not very good. Harry Kane is not very good. | |
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| I see Eddie Jones is offering some advice..... on 09:37 - Sep 6 with 4838 views | OsborneOneNil |
| I see Eddie Jones is offering some advice..... on 09:30 - Sep 6 by hype313 |
Was having this conversation the other day about the current team and England Italia 90 team.
Shilton
Parker
Pearce
Wright
Walker
Butcher
Beardsley
Waddle
Gascoigne
Barnes
Platt
How many of the current lot would get in that team? |
Blimey, good point. Maybe Kane as a main striking option. That's it tho! |  | | |
| I see Eddie Jones is offering some advice..... on 09:42 - Sep 6 with 4817 views | Vic |
| I see Eddie Jones is offering some advice..... on 09:35 - Sep 6 by chicoazul |
We really don't. Joe Hart is not very good. Ryan Bertrand is not very good. Danny Welbeck is not very good. Harry Kane is not very good. |
But if that was the case we wouldn't regularly get to the last 16 or last 8 of competitions. Yet we do! so we are in the top 10-15 countries in the world. The questions is 'what consistently stops us going further?' and I think the point being made is that it isn't just ability, it s also mentality. Even though we don't have many world class players we clearly have players of some ability (or they wouldn't play for the teams they do) they should do better as a unit. That is down to mentality in my book. |  |
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| I see Eddie Jones is offering some advice..... on 09:45 - Sep 6 with 4805 views | hype313 |
| I see Eddie Jones is offering some advice..... on 09:35 - Sep 6 by chicoazul |
We really don't. Joe Hart is not very good. Ryan Bertrand is not very good. Danny Welbeck is not very good. Harry Kane is not very good. |
Bit harsh saying Kane isn't very good. The rest are fair game. | |
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| I see Eddie Jones is offering some advice..... on 09:46 - Sep 6 with 4806 views | PrideOfTheEast |
| I see Eddie Jones is offering some advice..... on 09:42 - Sep 6 by Vic |
But if that was the case we wouldn't regularly get to the last 16 or last 8 of competitions. Yet we do! so we are in the top 10-15 countries in the world. The questions is 'what consistently stops us going further?' and I think the point being made is that it isn't just ability, it s also mentality. Even though we don't have many world class players we clearly have players of some ability (or they wouldn't play for the teams they do) they should do better as a unit. That is down to mentality in my book. |
If you're relying on rankings for an answer, you've just answered your own question! We're not good enough to go any further.
Rankings are of course a nonsense. | | | |
| I see Eddie Jones is offering some advice..... on 09:50 - Sep 6 with 4799 views | chicoazul |
| I see Eddie Jones is offering some advice..... on 09:42 - Sep 6 by Vic |
But if that was the case we wouldn't regularly get to the last 16 or last 8 of competitions. Yet we do! so we are in the top 10-15 countries in the world. The questions is 'what consistently stops us going further?' and I think the point being made is that it isn't just ability, it s also mentality. Even though we don't have many world class players we clearly have players of some ability (or they wouldn't play for the teams they do) they should do better as a unit. That is down to mentality in my book. |
We have played in 1 quarter final since 2006. We don't 'regularly' do anything apart from fail.
There are hardly any English players past the QFs in the Champions League. No English players play at big clubs abroad. They aren't very good. | |
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| I see Eddie Jones is offering some advice..... on 09:50 - Sep 6 with 4795 views | chicoazul |
| I see Eddie Jones is offering some advice..... on 09:45 - Sep 6 by hype313 |
Bit harsh saying Kane isn't very good. The rest are fair game. |
Kane is good, not very good. Sergio Aguero is very good. | |
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| I see Eddie Jones is offering some advice..... on 10:49 - Sep 6 with 4671 views | Darth_Koont |
| I see Eddie Jones is offering some advice..... on 08:38 - Sep 6 by hype313 |
The difference between the two is that the Rugby team have world class players in most positions, we have none in the football team. |
Which in no small part is down to England having half the registered rugby players in the world. The pyramid is huge, and with more resources and money throughout the structure too.
From that, it's inevitable you're going to have world-class players in every position. The only real issues are team tactics and mentality. But not sure England rugby have to work that hard at either compared to the football team, which faces vastly greater and wider competition — and on an even playing field to boot.
Rugby in general does have a greater dependence on each individual playing their team role and sticking to the plans. Football on the other hand is a lot more nuanced and difficult to engineer in the same way. Not to mention that the margins are much smaller with results involving just two or three goals rather than the dozen or more scores in a rugby match.
All-in-all, I think this is a little disingenuous of Jones and harsh on Southgate. |  |
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| I see Eddie Jones is offering some advice..... on 10:57 - Sep 6 with 4658 views | ITFC_Forever |
| I see Eddie Jones is offering some advice..... on 09:30 - Sep 6 by hype313 |
Was having this conversation the other day about the current team and England Italia 90 team.
Shilton
Parker
Pearce
Wright
Walker
Butcher
Beardsley
Waddle
Gascoigne
Barnes
Platt
How many of the current lot would get in that team? |
Where's Lineker? |  |
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| I see Eddie Jones is offering some advice..... on 11:02 - Sep 6 with 4641 views | hype313 |
| I see Eddie Jones is offering some advice..... on 10:57 - Sep 6 by ITFC_Forever |
Where's Lineker? |
Good point, change Barnes for Lineker | |
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| I see Eddie Jones is offering some advice..... on 11:26 - Sep 6 with 4600 views | christiand |
| I see Eddie Jones is offering some advice..... on 09:22 - Sep 6 by chicoazul |
Hahaha no we don't. If we did then Man City Chelsea and Man Utd would be full of English players. The simple fact is the current generation of players is not very good. Can you see Henderson and Dier playing centre midfield for Germany? |
Yes, I can. | |
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| I see Eddie Jones is offering some advice..... on 11:34 - Sep 6 with 4589 views | christiand |
| I see Eddie Jones is offering some advice..... on 09:50 - Sep 6 by chicoazul |
We have played in 1 quarter final since 2006. We don't 'regularly' do anything apart from fail.
There are hardly any English players past the QFs in the Champions League. No English players play at big clubs abroad. They aren't very good. |
Yes, but that's a mentality failure rather than down solely to ability. I'm sure if you ask a lot of top coaches of rival European countries they would certainly have a few players from our squad, but probably their approach and tactics would be different to better suit their strengths and this would include Henderson and Dier for Germany. | |
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| I see Eddie Jones is offering some advice..... on 11:39 - Sep 6 with 4576 views | chicoazul |
| I see Eddie Jones is offering some advice..... on 11:26 - Sep 6 by christiand |
Yes, I can. |
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| I see Eddie Jones is offering some advice..... on 11:44 - Sep 6 with 4570 views | Bluedandy |
| I see Eddie Jones is offering some advice..... on 10:49 - Sep 6 by Darth_Koont |
Which in no small part is down to England having half the registered rugby players in the world. The pyramid is huge, and with more resources and money throughout the structure too.
From that, it's inevitable you're going to have world-class players in every position. The only real issues are team tactics and mentality. But not sure England rugby have to work that hard at either compared to the football team, which faces vastly greater and wider competition — and on an even playing field to boot.
Rugby in general does have a greater dependence on each individual playing their team role and sticking to the plans. Football on the other hand is a lot more nuanced and difficult to engineer in the same way. Not to mention that the margins are much smaller with results involving just two or three goals rather than the dozen or more scores in a rugby match.
All-in-all, I think this is a little disingenuous of Jones and harsh on Southgate. |
Eddie Jones is spot on .... international level football is a mind game as much as anything else.
The build up to any major tournament follows the same old routine ... England are expected to crumble when the pressure is really on ... invariably we do even against much smaller nations.
We could and should do much better; our record in recent decades is pitiful compared with France, Germany, Spain, Italy, Portugal even Greece for crying out loud.
A major reason is our football lacks intelligence; it's psychologically brittle, littered with poor decision making and always prone to manic bouts of suicidal panic.
Until things improve up top then England will continue to achieve diddly-squat. | | | |
| I see Eddie Jones is offering some advice..... on 12:21 - Sep 6 with 4506 views | Darth_Koont |
| I see Eddie Jones is offering some advice..... on 11:44 - Sep 6 by Bluedandy |
Eddie Jones is spot on .... international level football is a mind game as much as anything else.
The build up to any major tournament follows the same old routine ... England are expected to crumble when the pressure is really on ... invariably we do even against much smaller nations.
We could and should do much better; our record in recent decades is pitiful compared with France, Germany, Spain, Italy, Portugal even Greece for crying out loud.
A major reason is our football lacks intelligence; it's psychologically brittle, littered with poor decision making and always prone to manic bouts of suicidal panic.
Until things improve up top then England will continue to achieve diddly-squat. |
I'd suggest Eddie Jones doesn't really know what the difficulties facing the England team are - the nature of football not to mention the huge world and European competition.
It's relatively easy to talk about mentality when you know you're one of the best teams in the world with players who are released by their clubs for months on end giving you ample time to instill team spirit and a shared commitment and belief to get you over the line in games you should be winning anyway.
It's all a bit of a cheap shot. [Post edited 6 Sep 2017 12:22]
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| I see Eddie Jones is offering some advice..... on 13:16 - Sep 6 with 4431 views | christiand |
| I see Eddie Jones is offering some advice..... on 12:21 - Sep 6 by Darth_Koont |
I'd suggest Eddie Jones doesn't really know what the difficulties facing the England team are - the nature of football not to mention the huge world and European competition.
It's relatively easy to talk about mentality when you know you're one of the best teams in the world with players who are released by their clubs for months on end giving you ample time to instill team spirit and a shared commitment and belief to get you over the line in games you should be winning anyway.
It's all a bit of a cheap shot. [Post edited 6 Sep 2017 12:22]
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When he took over, England were on a low ebb after hosting the World Cup, the first host country to go out in the group stage in the tournament's history and ranked 7th in the world. I would now argue apart form New Zealand we are 2nd in the world and playing some decent free flowing rugby. So what's changed? England still had good players in the 2015 World Cup. Perhaps it is the togetherness of the squad prior to matches, but mentality plays a key role in my eyes and how it is installed within the squad of players from the management and amongst the players. I think Jones' summary is a fair assessment of the current state of the football squad and its deficiencies. | |
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