| Bad news Dollers... 15:11 - Mar 4 with 1231 views | monytowbray |
https://www.campaignlive.co.uk/article/no-one-cares-campaign/1675744
In all fairness, he's not wrong. i'm glad my job is just getting clicks from organic traffic for the most part as that's something people are at least engaged with. Not to say all advertising is like this but there are a lot of folk in marketing who seem to think way too much about stuff no one really bats an eyelid at. |  |
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| Bad news Dollers... on 15:26 - Mar 4 with 1185 views | Darth_Koont |
It's a good article. Although, to be fair, most people I know in advertising think like that. And the better ones are totally uninterested in what the industry is doing.
There is however a massive parallel industry of promotion and self-promotion where people wallow in the "creative" bubble. Kudos to this guy if he's now seen that from the outside. |  |
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| Bad news Dollers... on 15:32 - Mar 4 with 1166 views | footers |
| Bad news Dollers... on 15:26 - Mar 4 by Darth_Koont |
It's a good article. Although, to be fair, most people I know in advertising think like that. And the better ones are totally uninterested in what the industry is doing.
There is however a massive parallel industry of promotion and self-promotion where people wallow in the "creative" bubble. Kudos to this guy if he's now seen that from the outside. |
Aye. From my experience in the industry it's mainly comprised of navel-gazing onanists. (No offence to the people you know)
Adland is obsessed with these edgy, arty campaigns, whereas in fact just repeating a simple message tends to work far better. [Post edited 4 Mar 2020 15:33]
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| Bad news Dollers... on 15:33 - Mar 4 with 1166 views | monytowbray |
| Bad news Dollers... on 15:26 - Mar 4 by Darth_Koont |
It's a good article. Although, to be fair, most people I know in advertising think like that. And the better ones are totally uninterested in what the industry is doing.
There is however a massive parallel industry of promotion and self-promotion where people wallow in the "creative" bubble. Kudos to this guy if he's now seen that from the outside. |
I hardly ever (if at all) network with the wider industry now beyond people I like as people or clients (I'm in SEO). It's mostly people amplifying themselves through the same old news with a different spin or people amplifying others to smooch.
I'm too honest for it all, to be honest. [Post edited 4 Mar 2020 15:33]
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| Bad news Dollers... on 15:35 - Mar 4 with 1153 views | HARRY10 |
"a creative "
tells you all you need to know
though Orwell's description of advertising as the 'rattle of the stick in the swill bucket' might add further to that view |  | | |
| Bad news Dollers... on 15:37 - Mar 4 with 1143 views | WD19 |
Irony klaxon alert.
A freelance creative with an empty engagement diary publishes positioning piece, bemoaning advertising, to advertise himself.
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| Bad news Dollers... on 15:38 - Mar 4 with 1136 views | Ryorry |
🤣 If only they'd asked consumers this about 50 years ago, 99% of us could have told them the same, and that the vast majority zip thru ads on ff.
Wonder what'd happen to commercial channels tho esp Ch4, ITV & its offshoots if they didn't have ads. |  |
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| Bad news Dollers... on 15:39 - Mar 4 with 1131 views | monytowbray |
| Bad news Dollers... on 15:37 - Mar 4 by WD19 |
Irony klaxon alert.
A freelance creative with an empty engagement diary publishes positioning piece, bemoaning advertising, to advertise himself.
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Is this about the article or half the forum!? ;) | |
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| Bad news Dollers... on 15:41 - Mar 4 with 1118 views | Darth_Koont |
| Bad news Dollers... on 15:37 - Mar 4 by WD19 |
Irony klaxon alert.
A freelance creative with an empty engagement diary publishes positioning piece, bemoaning advertising, to advertise himself.
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That's a very fair point.
Although if he gets the work that everyone should be doing more regularly with less of the navel-gazing nonsense then that's fair enough. | |
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| Bad news Dollers... on 15:41 - Mar 4 with 1119 views | Dyland |
Jesus... he's just describing the "echo chamber" effect, verbosely and repetitively (is that a tautology?).
In his defence, it is an article in an industry mag. I guess I'll let him off. And move on, [Post edited 4 Mar 2020 15:41]
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| Bad news Dollers... on 15:43 - Mar 4 with 1105 views | monytowbray |
| Bad news Dollers... on 15:38 - Mar 4 by Ryorry |
🤣 If only they'd asked consumers this about 50 years ago, 99% of us could have told them the same, and that the vast majority zip thru ads on ff.
Wonder what'd happen to commercial channels tho esp Ch4, ITV & its offshoots if they didn't have ads. |
Had a client at an agency I was with a few years back pay 10 times his SEO budget to get into a "big" industry publication and asked for the report that month to look at branded traffic as there should be a huge spike from the ad...
Line was flat as a pancake.
Most these publications claim a readership of XXX when what they mean is they counted the entire population of their local area as they post it through every door. It's all nonsense.
I'm grateful that in my line of marketing I'm at least serving my clients to something that someone is looking for in Google rather than blindly p1ssing money up the wall on estimated eyeballs because X people pass through the gates at X train station each month and MIGHT have seen your billboard. | |
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| Bad news Dollers... on 15:44 - Mar 4 with 1098 views | Darth_Koont |
| Bad news Dollers... on 15:33 - Mar 4 by monytowbray |
I hardly ever (if at all) network with the wider industry now beyond people I like as people or clients (I'm in SEO). It's mostly people amplifying themselves through the same old news with a different spin or people amplifying others to smooch.
I'm too honest for it all, to be honest. [Post edited 4 Mar 2020 15:33]
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They're also the sort of people who spend a lot of their employer's or client's time promoting themselves.
There's an award-winning agency I know and have occasionally worked for where they put all their awards in a store room. That's one of the reasons they win awards in the first place. | |
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| Bad news Dollers... on 15:56 - Mar 4 with 1069 views | monytowbray |
| Bad news Dollers... on 15:44 - Mar 4 by Darth_Koont |
They're also the sort of people who spend a lot of their employer's or client's time promoting themselves.
There's an award-winning agency I know and have occasionally worked for where they put all their awards in a store room. That's one of the reasons they win awards in the first place. |
A lot of agencies are better at marketing themselves than they are their clients. Some of the biggest influencers in my industry regularly post awful hot takes and incorrect information. Some of the best SEOs I know however are pretty quiet and too busy doing, you know, actual work for self-promotion. Not to say that's the entire case but it's often the way.
I've found when I've managed to see the work of, work with or hear stories from others about some of the BIG GAME CHANGER agencies their actual work is less than good, but they're great at shouting about the data that paints them in a good light.
Working with agencies can be hit or miss depending on who you have on your campaign anyway. If you get someone sh1t hot it can go well, but if you end up bundled with the office idiot or newbie it often shows.
I know many a smart marketing folk who thinks agencies will be mostly gone in 10-20 years time. Too expensive as they have operating costs. Why do that when you can hire freelancers at a 3rd of the cost and get the same standard of work (if not better)? Part of the reason I went self-employed is I realised I'm doing all the work and providing the expertise, yet 2/3s of the cash I bring in is going on paying office overheads and the much larger salaries of the bosses. Seems mad that's how capitalism works the more you think about it.
Now I'm freelancing and pitching for work I'm finding one of my USPs is I let my work do the talking over peacocking or flashy branding and I don't pressure anyone into spending more money ASAP. i feel far more comfortable making my own choices in my own time when parting with money and I believe most other people do too. | |
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| Bad news Dollers... on 16:05 - Mar 4 with 1049 views | Darth_Koont |
| Bad news Dollers... on 15:32 - Mar 4 by footers |
Aye. From my experience in the industry it's mainly comprised of navel-gazing onanists. (No offence to the people you know)
Adland is obsessed with these edgy, arty campaigns, whereas in fact just repeating a simple message tends to work far better. [Post edited 4 Mar 2020 15:33]
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London is awful for that and there's way too much money for old rope (that's been hand-twisted by the Huachipaeri tribe and then gilded with disruption).
We're selling stuff - and we should be selling it as painlessly and effectively as possible for the viewer/reader and the client. | |
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| Bad news Dollers... on 16:09 - Mar 4 with 1036 views | footers |
| Bad news Dollers... on 16:05 - Mar 4 by Darth_Koont |
London is awful for that and there's way too much money for old rope (that's been hand-twisted by the Huachipaeri tribe and then gilded with disruption).
We're selling stuff - and we should be selling it as painlessly and effectively as possible for the viewer/reader and the client. |
My ex-boss decided it was a great idea to hire Saatchi for a redesign we were doing- presumably because it was the fanciest agency she'd heard of. I spent most of my time telling their guys why X, Y and Z wasn't compliant, why it wouldn't resonate with our audience and basically telling them how to do their job.
Over the course of nine months it cost £3m. [Post edited 4 Mar 2020 16:10]
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| Bad news Dollers... on 16:20 - Mar 4 with 1022 views | monytowbray |
| Bad news Dollers... on 16:09 - Mar 4 by footers |
My ex-boss decided it was a great idea to hire Saatchi for a redesign we were doing- presumably because it was the fanciest agency she'd heard of. I spent most of my time telling their guys why X, Y and Z wasn't compliant, why it wouldn't resonate with our audience and basically telling them how to do their job.
Over the course of nine months it cost £3m. [Post edited 4 Mar 2020 16:10]
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Spoke to a potential client last week who had a new site built. Was told it was open source and anyone can work on it.
They proceeded to retire loads of traffic driving pages optimised for core business-driving terms and traffic tanked unsurprisingly.
And then they found it it was only really "open source" to the agency that built it so they wanted to charge mad rates for small fixes.
Crooks. | |
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| Bad news Dollers... on 16:30 - Mar 4 with 1000 views | Darth_Koont |
| Bad news Dollers... on 16:20 - Mar 4 by monytowbray |
Spoke to a potential client last week who had a new site built. Was told it was open source and anyone can work on it.
They proceeded to retire loads of traffic driving pages optimised for core business-driving terms and traffic tanked unsurprisingly.
And then they found it it was only really "open source" to the agency that built it so they wanted to charge mad rates for small fixes.
Crooks. |
That's a familiar story.
I used to think that tech and data would be the leveller for doing more serious work and measuring real success. But it's too often about locking in clients and keeping control.
I think the whole industry needs to get real or we're all going to be selling ourselves as in-house in a few years. | |
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| Bad news Dollers... on 16:36 - Mar 4 with 985 views | monytowbray |
| Bad news Dollers... on 16:30 - Mar 4 by Darth_Koont |
That's a familiar story.
I used to think that tech and data would be the leveller for doing more serious work and measuring real success. But it's too often about locking in clients and keeping control.
I think the whole industry needs to get real or we're all going to be selling ourselves as in-house in a few years. |
I've had cases in past jobs where I've been asked to soften reports or presentations and focus on positive data points.
Whole thing feels very dishonest. It's like losing 2-0 but focusing on the possession stats. Also, a lot are quick to take credit for stuff they probably didn't impact but when stuff goes wrong it was a Google update/the Developer/seasonality/etc. Sometimes the case but not always. | |
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| Bad news Dollers... on 17:06 - Mar 4 with 959 views | Darth_Koont |
| Bad news Dollers... on 16:36 - Mar 4 by monytowbray |
I've had cases in past jobs where I've been asked to soften reports or presentations and focus on positive data points.
Whole thing feels very dishonest. It's like losing 2-0 but focusing on the possession stats. Also, a lot are quick to take credit for stuff they probably didn't impact but when stuff goes wrong it was a Google update/the Developer/seasonality/etc. Sometimes the case but not always. |
It's a fascinating industry for meeting people who know stuff and think about it.
But equally fascinating for meeting people who know nothing and think even less.
It sort of explains the world. | |
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| Bad news Dollers... on 20:12 - Mar 4 with 899 views | BrixtonBlue |
I'm under no illusions about this, mate. It's not even "news" let alone "bad news". Anyone in advertising with half a brain knows this. I guess there are some people in the industry that care about the industry. I'm not one of them. I just want to earn a decent living and advertising is a way of monetising my crazy brain. |  |
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| Bad news Dollers... on 20:14 - Mar 4 with 890 views | BrixtonBlue |
| Bad news Dollers... on 15:35 - Mar 4 by HARRY10 |
"a creative "
tells you all you need to know
though Orwell's description of advertising as the 'rattle of the stick in the swill bucket' might add further to that view |
"Creative" is our job title. We didn't invent it. | |
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