| Dobra and El Mizouni loan 09:04 - Sep 15 with 2663 views | ITFC_96 |
Going by the fact we lost to Arsenal U21s with what was a strong team, I think PR Paul underestimates and dismisses U23s football too easily. Some of the teams the U23s play against will be at a higher standard than some L2 teams.
What benefit is there to send them out on loan where there will be worse facilities, and other footballers chopping at their legs to get them injured? No guarantee that L2 teams will even play them either, so they could end up sitting on the bench there too. |  | | |  |
| Dobra and El Mizouni loan on 09:08 - Sep 15 with 2183 views | Herbivore |
U23 football just isn't competitive, they are more like training games. Personally I think they should be on the bench here at least but Lambert doesn't seem to trust the kids so if he's not going to play them a loan is the next best thing for their development. |  |
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| Dobra and El Mizouni loan on 09:14 - Sep 15 with 2147 views | Terry_Nutkins |
Lambert would be in a majority of 100% of managers believing young players benefit from playing senior football lower down the pyramid over U23 football in the U23 league we play on. Stop trying to find fault when there isn't any. It isn't just technical it's playing against strong, seasoned professionals Inna more competitive environment where winning and losing really matters.
I think very very few would debate U23 Vs L2 on here! The debate is whether they can get in the first team and if they/we would be better served putting them in the team here. Legitimate arguments either side.
What benefit? Really? Playing football in a competitive environment against seasoned pros. The whole worse facilities bit isn't a terrible thing either. Make them aspirational for better, take them out of their comfort bubble. It's their job to get in the team on loan. If they can't then why should they get in ours!
Go and read the Drinnan interview. He talks about the improvement he got from it. Look at Downes after Luton. Woolf after Swindon... | |
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| Dobra and El Mizouni loan on 09:15 - Sep 15 with 2145 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Dobra and El Mizouni loan on 09:08 - Sep 15 by Herbivore |
U23 football just isn't competitive, they are more like training games. Personally I think they should be on the bench here at least but Lambert doesn't seem to trust the kids so if he's not going to play them a loan is the next best thing for their development. |
The worst that can happen is they go out on loan too early, we have bids in for Bishop etc that meet our valuation and Dobra and El Mizouni have left the building.
Keeping the transfer window open well Into October Is crazy. |  |
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| Dobra and El Mizouni loan on 09:21 - Sep 15 with 2110 views | Herbivore |
| Dobra and El Mizouni loan on 09:15 - Sep 15 by Pinewoodblue |
The worst that can happen is they go out on loan too early, we have bids in for Bishop etc that meet our valuation and Dobra and El Mizouni have left the building.
Keeping the transfer window open well Into October Is crazy. |
There's usually a couple of weeks overlap between the season starting and the transfer window closing but thus season it's over a month, which is absolutely crazy. We'll have played at least 10 games by the time the window closes, 5 of them in the league. It's very unsettling.
My worry with El Miz in particular going out is that he's the only other CM we have that will look to beat a man and show a bit of dynamism. It'll only take an injury to Bishop for our midfield to become very pedestrian again. | |
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| Dobra and El Mizouni loan on 09:22 - Sep 15 with 2109 views | jayessess |
| Dobra and El Mizouni loan on 09:14 - Sep 15 by Terry_Nutkins |
Lambert would be in a majority of 100% of managers believing young players benefit from playing senior football lower down the pyramid over U23 football in the U23 league we play on. Stop trying to find fault when there isn't any. It isn't just technical it's playing against strong, seasoned professionals Inna more competitive environment where winning and losing really matters.
I think very very few would debate U23 Vs L2 on here! The debate is whether they can get in the first team and if they/we would be better served putting them in the team here. Legitimate arguments either side.
What benefit? Really? Playing football in a competitive environment against seasoned pros. The whole worse facilities bit isn't a terrible thing either. Make them aspirational for better, take them out of their comfort bubble. It's their job to get in the team on loan. If they can't then why should they get in ours!
Go and read the Drinnan interview. He talks about the improvement he got from it. Look at Downes after Luton. Woolf after Swindon... |
Well, 99% of managers anyway. IIRC Guardiola's position was against loaning out players he expected to one day feature for the first team - on grounds that going somewhere else would disrupt the technical work only his coaches could do. |  |
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| Dobra and El Mizouni loan on 09:34 - Sep 15 with 2039 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Dobra and El Mizouni loan on 09:21 - Sep 15 by Herbivore |
There's usually a couple of weeks overlap between the season starting and the transfer window closing but thus season it's over a month, which is absolutely crazy. We'll have played at least 10 games by the time the window closes, 5 of them in the league. It's very unsettling.
My worry with El Miz in particular going out is that he's the only other CM we have that will look to beat a man and show a bit of dynamism. It'll only take an injury to Bishop for our midfield to become very pedestrian again. |
Douglas would have walked into the team that finished the Wigan game and not looked out of place. | |
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| Dobra and El Mizouni loan on 09:39 - Sep 15 with 2017 views | jayessess |
| Dobra and El Mizouni loan on 09:21 - Sep 15 by Herbivore |
There's usually a couple of weeks overlap between the season starting and the transfer window closing but thus season it's over a month, which is absolutely crazy. We'll have played at least 10 games by the time the window closes, 5 of them in the league. It's very unsettling.
My worry with El Miz in particular going out is that he's the only other CM we have that will look to beat a man and show a bit of dynamism. It'll only take an injury to Bishop for our midfield to become very pedestrian again. |
Flip side - a longer window gives us a good chance to assess how many opportunities to play they're likely to get before organising loans. If Dobra and El Miz haven't featured at all by the end of the window, probably fine to loan them out until January and then re-assess things. | |
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| Dobra and El Mizouni loan on 09:39 - Sep 15 with 2013 views | Terry_Nutkins |
| Dobra and El Mizouni loan on 09:22 - Sep 15 by jayessess |
Well, 99% of managers anyway. IIRC Guardiola's position was against loaning out players he expected to one day feature for the first team - on grounds that going somewhere else would disrupt the technical work only his coaches could do. |
They're not in our U23 league though which I think I put. But yes you might be right on that one.
The Window does make this a bit dangerous. We should leave it late if we do loan them out. Or at least hold back El Miz for now. McGavin season loan. Dobra until Jan. El Miz until Jan but left late (If he doesn't go out then fine). | |
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| Dobra and El Mizouni loan on 09:40 - Sep 15 with 2009 views | catch74 |
I think you only have to look at the loans of Woolfenden and Downes to see the benefit. |  |
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| Dobra and El Mizouni loan on 09:49 - Sep 15 with 1969 views | Herbivore |
| Dobra and El Mizouni loan on 09:40 - Sep 15 by catch74 |
I think you only have to look at the loans of Woolfenden and Downes to see the benefit. |
Although the likes of Nydam and Morris have had loan spells that were of no real benefit to them or us. There's never any guarantees when it comes to loaning players out, it has to be the right loan. | |
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| Dobra and El Mizouni loan on 09:51 - Sep 15 with 1956 views | Terry_Nutkins |
| Dobra and El Mizouni loan on 09:39 - Sep 15 by jayessess |
Flip side - a longer window gives us a good chance to assess how many opportunities to play they're likely to get before organising loans. If Dobra and El Miz haven't featured at all by the end of the window, probably fine to loan them out until January and then re-assess things. |
That's true and essentially by close of window it's a short term loan anyway if initially until Jan. I'm ok with short term for Dobs and El Miz. Can re-asses at that point if a) they are ripping it up and b) where we are at squad and performance wise. If Lankaster isn't back up to speed speed in Jan for example you could bring one back and loan out Lankaster (hopefully that won't be the scenario of course!!) | |
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| Dobra and El Mizouni loan on 09:53 - Sep 15 with 1945 views | gordon |
The thing with Dobra and El Mizouni is that if they go out on loan and play to their potential they could end up leaving permanently before we even see them play. A well-funded Championship team could easily be tempted at Christmas to take a punt of about £1.5 million with significant add-ons on the back of good performances in League 2, which we would probably then accept. [Post edited 15 Sep 2020 9:54]
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| Dobra and El Mizouni loan on 09:56 - Sep 15 with 1918 views | itfcjoe |
They've outgrown U23s football, they need to be playing 1st team football - I think for Idris that should be here, but seemingly the management disagrees.
League 2 will be a big test for them, and hopefully something can be sorted |  |
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| Dobra and El Mizouni loan on 09:57 - Sep 15 with 1907 views | Metal_Hacker |
| Dobra and El Mizouni loan on 09:53 - Sep 15 by gordon |
The thing with Dobra and El Mizouni is that if they go out on loan and play to their potential they could end up leaving permanently before we even see them play. A well-funded Championship team could easily be tempted at Christmas to take a punt of about £1.5 million with significant add-ons on the back of good performances in League 2, which we would probably then accept. [Post edited 15 Sep 2020 9:54]
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You think we'd accrue £1.5m from a Champ club when we're struggling to get over that for Downes from a Prem club ?
Highly unlikely I suspect |  |
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| Dobra and El Mizouni loan on 10:00 - Sep 15 with 1881 views | gordon |
| Dobra and El Mizouni loan on 09:57 - Sep 15 by Metal_Hacker |
You think we'd accrue £1.5m from a Champ club when we're struggling to get over that for Downes from a Prem club ?
Highly unlikely I suspect |
Maybe not that much, but a run of decent performances in League 2 would likely be enough to trigger a bid that we would have to accept from a higher end champ team or lower end Prem team. | | | |
| Dobra and El Mizouni loan on 10:01 - Sep 15 with 1869 views | IpswichKnight |
| Dobra and El Mizouni loan on 09:57 - Sep 15 by Metal_Hacker |
You think we'd accrue £1.5m from a Champ club when we're struggling to get over that for Downes from a Prem club ?
Highly unlikely I suspect |
Brighton offered 500k last season for Dobra and were told to get stuffed by ME. Brighton were not alone in registering an interest Atalanta were as well ( who knew if you play well at U21 level with players from Serie A word would get around ). | | | |
| Dobra and El Mizouni loan on 10:04 - Sep 15 with 1849 views | Metal_Hacker |
| Dobra and El Mizouni loan on 10:01 - Sep 15 by IpswichKnight |
Brighton offered 500k last season for Dobra and were told to get stuffed by ME. Brighton were not alone in registering an interest Atalanta were as well ( who knew if you play well at U21 level with players from Serie A word would get around ). |
I think a lot of Prem clubs go "mine sweeping" lower clubs buying "potential" because they can afford to.Similar to signing school boy forms , get them in , get them interested and spit the out the other end with the bummed out players having nothing to show for it | |
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| Dobra and El Mizouni loan on 10:07 - Sep 15 with 1825 views | Metal_Hacker |
| Dobra and El Mizouni loan on 10:00 - Sep 15 by gordon |
Maybe not that much, but a run of decent performances in League 2 would likely be enough to trigger a bid that we would have to accept from a higher end champ team or lower end Prem team. |
I guess that's the risk we now face living in League 1 . Could happen to any of our players. Unfortunate thing is we usually sell at least one of our "key" players to balance the books. Sad state of affairs but....necessity. Doesn't make it right but .....
I think they'll both go out on loan until Jan to be fair and hopefully come back and push the squad to perform even better towards the closing of the season...hopefully | |
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| Dobra and El Mizouni loan on 10:17 - Sep 15 with 1772 views | ITFC_96 |
| Dobra and El Mizouni loan on 09:53 - Sep 15 by gordon |
The thing with Dobra and El Mizouni is that if they go out on loan and play to their potential they could end up leaving permanently before we even see them play. A well-funded Championship team could easily be tempted at Christmas to take a punt of about £1.5 million with significant add-ons on the back of good performances in League 2, which we would probably then accept. [Post edited 15 Sep 2020 9:54]
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This is exactly what is going to happen if they get rewarded for signing new contracts by instantly being loaned out to League 2 clubs, and not even getting their photos taken for the first team... Think people vastly overestimate a player's loyalty to a team if the managers do them no favours in return. | | | |
| Dobra and El Mizouni loan on 10:18 - Sep 15 with 1764 views | ITFC_96 |
| Dobra and El Mizouni loan on 10:01 - Sep 15 by IpswichKnight |
Brighton offered 500k last season for Dobra and were told to get stuffed by ME. Brighton were not alone in registering an interest Atalanta were as well ( who knew if you play well at U21 level with players from Serie A word would get around ). |
ME can do nothing if they don't sign new contracts later. Dozzell is going to be gone the end of this season, there is a reason he is stalling contract talks (among a number of other players I imagine). | | | |
| Dobra and El Mizouni loan on 10:19 - Sep 15 with 1758 views | Guthrum |
Problem is, our U23s don't get to play against those of Arsenal (or any other top team). Their group consists of Bristol, Cardiff, Charlton, Colchester, Millwall, QPR, Swansea and Watford. |  |
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| Dobra and El Mizouni loan on 10:20 - Sep 15 with 1753 views | Guthrum |
| Dobra and El Mizouni loan on 09:56 - Sep 15 by itfcjoe |
They've outgrown U23s football, they need to be playing 1st team football - I think for Idris that should be here, but seemingly the management disagrees.
League 2 will be a big test for them, and hopefully something can be sorted |
Yes, was hoping that El-Mizouni would be in and around the first team this season. Have liked what I've seen of him, think he would have no problem coping. | |
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| Dobra and El Mizouni loan on 10:22 - Sep 15 with 1740 views | catch74 |
| Dobra and El Mizouni loan on 09:34 - Sep 15 by Pinewoodblue |
Douglas would have walked into the team that finished the Wigan game and not looked out of place. |
Maybe broken into a trot on the pitch? | |
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| Dobra and El Mizouni loan on 10:27 - Sep 15 with 1714 views | catch74 |
| Dobra and El Mizouni loan on 10:18 - Sep 15 by ITFC_96 |
ME can do nothing if they don't sign new contracts later. Dozzell is going to be gone the end of this season, there is a reason he is stalling contract talks (among a number of other players I imagine). |
Well yes, the reason being he didn’t play enough last season and we didn’t get promoted. It gives him more control - see Downes situation, if we don’t go up again. Nothing sinister, just common sense. From the clubs point of view - needed to see him produce and fully recover. | |
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| Dobra and El Mizouni loan on 10:35 - Sep 15 with 1677 views | ITFC_96 |
| Dobra and El Mizouni loan on 10:27 - Sep 15 by catch74 |
Well yes, the reason being he didn’t play enough last season and we didn’t get promoted. It gives him more control - see Downes situation, if we don’t go up again. Nothing sinister, just common sense. From the clubs point of view - needed to see him produce and fully recover. |
The issue is that Downes did play a good amount of games, and he is still desperate to leave. The moment more clubs come knocking for the younger players, the likelier it is they're going to leave considering the club seemingly doesn't want them! | | | |
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