| I wonder if Hurst could've turned things around....... 05:18 - Dec 13 with 3107 views | bobbyramsey |
......if he'd been given as much time as Lambert? |  | | |  |
| I wonder if Hurst could've turned things around....... on 05:28 - Dec 13 with 3088 views | SpruceMoose |
Wash your mouth out. |  |
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"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| I wonder if Hurst could've turned things around....... on 05:31 - Dec 13 with 3078 views | bobbyramsey |
| I wonder if Hurst could've turned things around....... on 05:28 - Dec 13 by SpruceMoose |
Wash your mouth out. |
Which word offended, I have difficulty uttering either.....? | | | |
| I wonder if Hurst could've turned things around....... on 07:32 - Dec 13 with 2946 views | itfcjoe |
I can’t imagine we’d be in any worse a position |  |
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| I wonder if Hurst could've turned things around....... on 07:41 - Dec 13 with 2925 views | bobbyramsey |
| I wonder if Hurst could've turned things around....... on 07:32 - Dec 13 by itfcjoe |
I can’t imagine we’d be in any worse a position |
No, nor do I. And a lot cheaper to get rid of too..... | | | |
| I wonder if Hurst could've turned things around....... on 07:47 - Dec 13 with 2910 views | itfcjoe |
| I wonder if Hurst could've turned things around....... on 07:41 - Dec 13 by bobbyramsey |
No, nor do I. And a lot cheaper to get rid of too..... |
How long can it go on like this?!
The 8 key games picked out post international break at best are going to bring 13 points, and likely 7-10. It’s just back to long periods of relegation form. | |
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| I wonder if Hurst could've turned things around....... on 08:41 - Dec 13 with 2766 views | Plums |
| I wonder if Hurst could've turned things around....... on 07:47 - Dec 13 by itfcjoe |
How long can it go on like this?!
The 8 key games picked out post international break at best are going to bring 13 points, and likely 7-10. It’s just back to long periods of relegation form. |
Unfortunately, on top of the unfolding catastrophe on the pitch, we now have a situation where the owner has painted himself into a corner by backing an obviously failing manager. Even if cash and results weren’t enough, he’s had to make one ‘apology’ in recent days, I can’t see another public admission of incompetence coming very quickly. |  |
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| I wonder if Hurst could've turned things around....... on 09:12 - Dec 13 with 2688 views | unstableblue |
I’m afraid none of Marcus’ managerial appointments has had the man management and progressive technical/tactical coaching acumen to truly turn this club around - Mick by far the closest, and had some success. Marcus has also failed to put in any of the modern footballing management structures around the manager, structures meaning that when a manager leaves you are not back to square one or hugely disrupted, we have Lee O’Neill, nor a dynamic Chief Exec to drive improvements in other parts of the club.
Marcus has also chosen a certain ‘type’ of manager, who have ultimately not suited the clubs fans and local media.
I think managers have been available, around and even contacted who could have turned us around and been a better fit... Robbins, Parker, Jackett, Ross, Johnson... perhaps now Cook... whether they would have worked out who knows.
But Marcus needs to be following a process that gets us close to the right man as possible. He has fallen short on this, and I have no faith. It’s like pin the tail on the donkey.
The simple glaring evidence is that this Town team, our beloved team, and have been outplayed and outfought on far far too many occasions under Marcus.
And back to your point, in Hursts one or two ‘OK’ games (Blackburn, Norwich) I simply did not see any shape or passages of play that gave a hope of truly effective technical/tactical coaching. So he was doomed to be yet another flop.
The sad sad thing is that under Klugg we are creating in Wolf, Downes, McGavin, Baggot, Lankester etc etc we are creating talent to be so excited about... we just motivated senior players and a feckin effective system of play to put them in.
It’s all so depressing. [Post edited 13 Dec 2020 9:14]
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| I wonder if Hurst could've turned things around....... on 09:35 - Dec 13 with 2634 views | brogansnose |
| I wonder if Hurst could've turned things around....... on 09:12 - Dec 13 by unstableblue |
I’m afraid none of Marcus’ managerial appointments has had the man management and progressive technical/tactical coaching acumen to truly turn this club around - Mick by far the closest, and had some success. Marcus has also failed to put in any of the modern footballing management structures around the manager, structures meaning that when a manager leaves you are not back to square one or hugely disrupted, we have Lee O’Neill, nor a dynamic Chief Exec to drive improvements in other parts of the club.
Marcus has also chosen a certain ‘type’ of manager, who have ultimately not suited the clubs fans and local media.
I think managers have been available, around and even contacted who could have turned us around and been a better fit... Robbins, Parker, Jackett, Ross, Johnson... perhaps now Cook... whether they would have worked out who knows.
But Marcus needs to be following a process that gets us close to the right man as possible. He has fallen short on this, and I have no faith. It’s like pin the tail on the donkey.
The simple glaring evidence is that this Town team, our beloved team, and have been outplayed and outfought on far far too many occasions under Marcus.
And back to your point, in Hursts one or two ‘OK’ games (Blackburn, Norwich) I simply did not see any shape or passages of play that gave a hope of truly effective technical/tactical coaching. So he was doomed to be yet another flop.
The sad sad thing is that under Klugg we are creating in Wolf, Downes, McGavin, Baggot, Lankester etc etc we are creating talent to be so excited about... we just motivated senior players and a feckin effective system of play to put them in.
It’s all so depressing. [Post edited 13 Dec 2020 9:14]
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' Marcus has also failed to put in any of the modern footballing management structures around the manager, structures meaning that when a manager leaves you are not back to square one .'
I know you tend to get stick on here for your 'technical ' posts but there is a lot in what you say. Unfortunately, its been this lack of vision and ethos, borne out of short termism, that has not only led to poor football but has also led us to being unfit to cope with the wider changes in the footballing landscape, the latest of which being the salary cap. If the fans were seeing signs of better football or the much vaunted but illusory ' green shoots' then we would be in a much more positive place. Evans plays lip service to all of this in the 5 point fag packet plans but the reality is somewhat different and he is the architect of our demise. I fear that even if he did go down this road of truly implementing this ethos with a manager capable of carrying it out - perhaps someone from in house with support from the club - that we have become too cynical and jaded with the whole Evans project to go along with it. |  | | |
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| I wonder if Hurst could've turned things around....... on 09:40 - Dec 13 with 2612 views | LeoMuff |
I also wonder the same, but my gut feeling is no. However as others have said, certainly I’m not sure we would be worse.
I honestly cannot imagine any manager succeeding under this regime, we are now on no 6... |  |
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| I wonder if Hurst could've turned things around....... on 09:45 - Dec 13 with 2587 views | BlueandTruesince82 |
No. |  |
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| I wonder if Hurst could've turned things around....... on 11:38 - Dec 13 with 2441 views | patrickswell |
| I wonder if Hurst could've turned things around....... on 09:35 - Dec 13 by brogansnose |
' Marcus has also failed to put in any of the modern footballing management structures around the manager, structures meaning that when a manager leaves you are not back to square one .'
I know you tend to get stick on here for your 'technical ' posts but there is a lot in what you say. Unfortunately, its been this lack of vision and ethos, borne out of short termism, that has not only led to poor football but has also led us to being unfit to cope with the wider changes in the footballing landscape, the latest of which being the salary cap. If the fans were seeing signs of better football or the much vaunted but illusory ' green shoots' then we would be in a much more positive place. Evans plays lip service to all of this in the 5 point fag packet plans but the reality is somewhat different and he is the architect of our demise. I fear that even if he did go down this road of truly implementing this ethos with a manager capable of carrying it out - perhaps someone from in house with support from the club - that we have become too cynical and jaded with the whole Evans project to go along with it. |
I think your last point is a particularly relevant one in terms of the mood of the fans. It’s always been a case of “jam tomorrow” in terms of what we’ve heard from Evans, Milne, Clegg, O’Neill, plenty of fighting talk about what we can and should be doing from managers and players- but every year we see statements talking about the previous year and how “although results were not what we hoped, we still believ E that we have a bright future ahead of us following our plan...” whilst the fighting talk of managers and players sees us embroiled in runs of 7 defeats in 10 matches.
The quality in our side can’t get itself off the physios couch leaving only the youngsters being put out to play by a jaded and punch drunk manager, who’s at risk of seeing the best of that talent walk out the door under regulations which we were only one vote away from not having to worry
about. They want patience from a fan base that is not only being asked to accept a need to take backward steps but has 13 years worth of evidence to conclude that those backward steps will likely lead to more backward steps. Evans needs to cut his losses and get out because the atmosphere of mutual contempt that exists between fans and club is only going to get worse. [Post edited 13 Dec 2020 11:41]
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| I wonder if Hurst could've turned things around....... on 11:43 - Dec 13 with 2416 views | jas0999 |
| I wonder if Hurst could've turned things around....... on 07:47 - Dec 13 by itfcjoe |
How long can it go on like this?!
The 8 key games picked out post international break at best are going to bring 13 points, and likely 7-10. It’s just back to long periods of relegation form. |
At least two years. PL still has four years left on his deal! |  | | |
| I wonder if Hurst could've turned things around....... on 13:34 - Dec 13 with 2274 views | unstableblue |
| I wonder if Hurst could've turned things around....... on 09:35 - Dec 13 by brogansnose |
' Marcus has also failed to put in any of the modern footballing management structures around the manager, structures meaning that when a manager leaves you are not back to square one .'
I know you tend to get stick on here for your 'technical ' posts but there is a lot in what you say. Unfortunately, its been this lack of vision and ethos, borne out of short termism, that has not only led to poor football but has also led us to being unfit to cope with the wider changes in the footballing landscape, the latest of which being the salary cap. If the fans were seeing signs of better football or the much vaunted but illusory ' green shoots' then we would be in a much more positive place. Evans plays lip service to all of this in the 5 point fag packet plans but the reality is somewhat different and he is the architect of our demise. I fear that even if he did go down this road of truly implementing this ethos with a manager capable of carrying it out - perhaps someone from in house with support from the club - that we have become too cynical and jaded with the whole Evans project to go along with it. |
Thanks brogan or is it nose..
Appreciate that.
You sum it up - Lip service to a 5 point plan on the back of a fag packet
As I posted recently that the 5 point plan is a complete mess... activities, mixed with objectives, outcomes, and all mixed together in a mess
If Marcus had found a dynamic CEO or technical direction on the way up... we would have been on a different journey... clegg, Milne, hopeless | |
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| I wonder if Hurst could've turned things around....... on 14:42 - Dec 13 with 2192 views | brogansnose |
| I wonder if Hurst could've turned things around....... on 13:34 - Dec 13 by unstableblue |
Thanks brogan or is it nose..
Appreciate that.
You sum it up - Lip service to a 5 point plan on the back of a fag packet
As I posted recently that the 5 point plan is a complete mess... activities, mixed with objectives, outcomes, and all mixed together in a mess
If Marcus had found a dynamic CEO or technical direction on the way up... we would have been on a different journey... clegg, Milne, hopeless |
'If Marcus had found a dynamic CEO or technical direction on the way up... we would have been on a different journey... clegg, Milne '
Plan A was clearly throw money at Operation Get Promoted during an era when this was possible with a competant manager. When that failed and he was more reluctant to let managers waste money no other strategy was put in place by himself. Now, I can see reasons for this , financial and business interests elsewhere ect. but by not installing someone who had a clue about football and, being led by 'Arry's influence, there was no overall policy. Over at Norwich, Delia gave the job to McNally and laid the foundation for where they are today.
We are still looking short term which given the imperative to get out of this league is quite understandable but, and it looks increasingly unlikely that we will , we need to re-set and get on board with an Ipswich style throughout the teams, an ethos and overall vision and that needs to be led by director of football. This muddle can't carry on unless Evans is happy in this league and that he does see it as a rich mans hobby. | | | |
| I wonder if Hurst could've turned things around....... on 15:18 - Dec 13 with 2143 views | Darth_Koont |
Doubtful - and we’d still have been relegated.
But it would probably have been cheaper as he’d have looked to make his own players work better in League One rather than just adding another layer to the mess and having the bulkiest and most bloated squad in our history.
So I don’t think we’d have been worse off. Problem now is that the incoming manager has a complicated problem to sort out and really can only work with what he’s got. Plus probably needs to move some players also just to have room to breathe. |  |
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| I wonder if Hurst could've turned things around....... on 17:00 - Dec 13 with 2014 views | unstableblue |
| I wonder if Hurst could've turned things around....... on 14:42 - Dec 13 by brogansnose |
'If Marcus had found a dynamic CEO or technical direction on the way up... we would have been on a different journey... clegg, Milne '
Plan A was clearly throw money at Operation Get Promoted during an era when this was possible with a competant manager. When that failed and he was more reluctant to let managers waste money no other strategy was put in place by himself. Now, I can see reasons for this , financial and business interests elsewhere ect. but by not installing someone who had a clue about football and, being led by 'Arry's influence, there was no overall policy. Over at Norwich, Delia gave the job to McNally and laid the foundation for where they are today.
We are still looking short term which given the imperative to get out of this league is quite understandable but, and it looks increasingly unlikely that we will , we need to re-set and get on board with an Ipswich style throughout the teams, an ethos and overall vision and that needs to be led by director of football. This muddle can't carry on unless Evans is happy in this league and that he does see it as a rich mans hobby. |
You’re so bang on with this statement - “ Plan A was clearly throw money at Operation Get Promoted during an era when this was possible with a competant manager.” is so bang on.
Keane was given £8m and a free reign for a small coaching team to dominate the football side of the club.
However I’m not sure Marcus quite intended it like that, because he also threw money at appointing Simon Clegg who would not have been cheap:
“Clegg was appointed Chief Executive of Ipswich Town in April 2009 replacing Derek Bowden and working directly with the club's owner Marcus Evans. One of his first tasks was to replace the manager, Jim Magilton with former Sunderland FC manager with Roy Keane on a two-year contract that was terminated on 7 January 2011. Paul Jewell replaced Keane until he resigned in October 2012 whereupon the former Wolves FC manager, Mick McCarthy was appointed with whom Clegg worked until he himself resigned in February 2013.”
What was Cleggs remit? It surely wasn’t to improve the match day experience, that continued to falter. He certainly wasn’t defining anything on the football structure, he always sounded a bit cr@p at transfers. Clegg on paper had done great things for Team GB at Beijing, but how was that transferring to ITFC?! No way Keane was going to be set objectives and targets by clegg?
What did he do?
It’s baffling? | |
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| I wonder if Hurst could've turned things around....... on 17:06 - Dec 13 with 1988 views | BonchosBicycle |
For my money he should have been given at least until the Christmas window to try and fix it. I think the amount of time we've given Lambert is in some way tied to us pulling the trigger on Hurst so soon. I think a lot of us didn't want us to seem to be one of "those" clubs firing managers three times a season when we've always prided ourselves a little on how we historically give managers time to build their team. |  | | |
| I wonder if Hurst could've turned things around....... on 19:39 - Dec 13 with 1875 views | brogansnose |
| I wonder if Hurst could've turned things around....... on 17:00 - Dec 13 by unstableblue |
You’re so bang on with this statement - “ Plan A was clearly throw money at Operation Get Promoted during an era when this was possible with a competant manager.” is so bang on.
Keane was given £8m and a free reign for a small coaching team to dominate the football side of the club.
However I’m not sure Marcus quite intended it like that, because he also threw money at appointing Simon Clegg who would not have been cheap:
“Clegg was appointed Chief Executive of Ipswich Town in April 2009 replacing Derek Bowden and working directly with the club's owner Marcus Evans. One of his first tasks was to replace the manager, Jim Magilton with former Sunderland FC manager with Roy Keane on a two-year contract that was terminated on 7 January 2011. Paul Jewell replaced Keane until he resigned in October 2012 whereupon the former Wolves FC manager, Mick McCarthy was appointed with whom Clegg worked until he himself resigned in February 2013.”
What was Cleggs remit? It surely wasn’t to improve the match day experience, that continued to falter. He certainly wasn’t defining anything on the football structure, he always sounded a bit cr@p at transfers. Clegg on paper had done great things for Team GB at Beijing, but how was that transferring to ITFC?! No way Keane was going to be set objectives and targets by clegg?
What did he do?
It’s baffling? |
I'm sure that Clegg was very good in his own field but do you as an owner new to football need someone who's sporting background is in Olympic skying ? The bloke had no experience of making a signing and dealing with agents and neither did Evans. I seem to recall, and I could be wrong, that Clegg went on holiday to Cornwall and was struggling to find a signal to talk to agents. Incredible stuff. Keane in his book makes disparaging reference to Clegg, which admittedly could be Keane talk, but Clegg was not a football bloke who couldn't make those all important deals for him and Evans probably paid over the odds. If I'm going to be cynical, was it also about the Brazilian Olympics ?
To come into an industry with no prior experience and think that you're going to make it a success and not need to recruit from inside the industry is bizzarre.I go back to Delia with McNally . | | | |
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