| A morbid debate 16:27 - Feb 2 with 3533 views | Bluefish |
But a man dying that has lives a fine life to exceed 100 years old should not be seen as more tragic than the hundreds of people dying at less than half that age.
The news coverage is going to be ridiculous OTT for Captain Tom and social media will be bordering on bizarre from some people.
He led a fine life and seemed a wonderful human being. His charity efforts were lovely but it was more a movement of support towards the NHS being recognised in his name.
Calling these things out only ever lead to backlash so I am prepared for that but the grief in these things from strangers seems to be more about them than the victim.
Anyway RIP Captain a fine innings |  |
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| A morbid debate on 16:29 - Feb 2 with 2338 views | SpruceMoose |
It's not more tragic. It's just more newsworthy. That's the media we have (and seemingly want). |  |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| A morbid debate on 16:32 - Feb 2 with 2290 views | Bluefish |
| A morbid debate on 16:29 - Feb 2 by SpruceMoose |
It's not more tragic. It's just more newsworthy. That's the media we have (and seemingly want). |
The media seem to latch on to some deaths and give them so much coverage whereas another death goes without comment. I find it odd, this is especially true with murders. Some murder victims are 24/7 coverage and become household names. Others barely reported, it is quite distasteful as is making a 100 year old dying more tragic than a 40 year old. 100,000 people have died from this virus in this country alone. Captain Tom is one of the least tragic albeit perhaps one the most fondly remembered [Post edited 2 Feb 2021 16:33]
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| A morbid debate on 16:34 - Feb 2 with 2256 views | Churchman |
No, it’s not more tragic. His life should be celebrated. He gave something back. Not just raising money, but inspiration that age and physical infirmity should be no barrier. That individuals can and do make a difference in this world. |  | | |
| A morbid debate on 16:35 - Feb 2 with 2248 views | SpruceMoose |
| A morbid debate on 16:32 - Feb 2 by Bluefish |
The media seem to latch on to some deaths and give them so much coverage whereas another death goes without comment. I find it odd, this is especially true with murders. Some murder victims are 24/7 coverage and become household names. Others barely reported, it is quite distasteful as is making a 100 year old dying more tragic than a 40 year old. 100,000 people have died from this virus in this country alone. Captain Tom is one of the least tragic albeit perhaps one the most fondly remembered [Post edited 2 Feb 2021 16:33]
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Again, I don't think they're making it more tragic. It's just more newsworthy considering his popularity and actions over the last year.
What are you seeing that makes you feel it is being treated as more tragic? | |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| A morbid debate on 16:35 - Feb 2 with 2235 views | Swansea_Blue |
I think there's a lot of truth to that. At the risk of going all Buddhist, we should value each life equally.
It is certainly more newsworthy though. Would it be overkill to say he was a symbol of hope and goodness in an otherwise depressing year? As such his passing is bound to attract a lot of attention. I just hope the morons can behave themselves, as apparently he's was getting abuse on social media after it was announced he went into hospital. |  |
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| A morbid debate on 16:37 - Feb 2 with 2203 views | Bluefish |
| A morbid debate on 16:35 - Feb 2 by SpruceMoose |
Again, I don't think they're making it more tragic. It's just more newsworthy considering his popularity and actions over the last year.
What are you seeing that makes you feel it is being treated as more tragic? |
10 million* messages saying how tragic it is and no doubt wall to wall coverage on the news for days saying how tragic it is. Strangers interviewed in the streets, strangers sending in videos saying how it has touched them, strangers crying etc.
Possibly exaggeration | |
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| A morbid debate on 16:40 - Feb 2 with 2179 views | Churchman |
| A morbid debate on 16:32 - Feb 2 by Bluefish |
The media seem to latch on to some deaths and give them so much coverage whereas another death goes without comment. I find it odd, this is especially true with murders. Some murder victims are 24/7 coverage and become household names. Others barely reported, it is quite distasteful as is making a 100 year old dying more tragic than a 40 year old. 100,000 people have died from this virus in this country alone. Captain Tom is one of the least tragic albeit perhaps one the most fondly remembered [Post edited 2 Feb 2021 16:33]
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I’m sorry, I don’t think the word tragic enters into it. The media use colourful wording like that because it ramps up drama and sells newspapers etc. Anyone who has been to a young persons or child’s funeral and an elderly persons one knows the difference. One is a tragedy of missed opportunity and potential etc, the other is a celebration of a life.
This gentleman did something extraordinary and deserves a nod for that. | | | |
| A morbid debate on 16:40 - Feb 2 with 2183 views | clive_baker |
It's not 'calling out' that leads to backlash, it's probably more to do with the fact you're raising it as a point of discussion an hour after someone's died, which is more than a bit distasteful tbh. |  |
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| A morbid debate on 16:40 - Feb 2 with 2170 views | Swansea_Blue |
| A morbid debate on 16:32 - Feb 2 by Bluefish |
The media seem to latch on to some deaths and give them so much coverage whereas another death goes without comment. I find it odd, this is especially true with murders. Some murder victims are 24/7 coverage and become household names. Others barely reported, it is quite distasteful as is making a 100 year old dying more tragic than a 40 year old. 100,000 people have died from this virus in this country alone. Captain Tom is one of the least tragic albeit perhaps one the most fondly remembered [Post edited 2 Feb 2021 16:33]
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Media studies 101: what makes something newsworthy
1. Timing - his war service and patriotism at a time of increasing nationalism around departing the EU
2. Significance - NHS in Covid year with focus on NHS
3. Proximity - UK story
4. Prominence - shot to fame with his fundraising efforts
5. Human interest - again fundraising efforts, being adopted as a national hero, his honour, his age making his actions last year rather unique
I don't think there's anything more to it than that. I wouldn't get a mention, and probably rightly so! | |
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| A morbid debate on 16:41 - Feb 2 with 2167 views | Steve_M |
I look forward to the fulsome expressions of regret from a Prime Minister who has shrugged off 100,000 deaths. |  |
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| A morbid debate on 16:41 - Feb 2 with 2167 views | ArnoldMoorhen |
Yes, he did have a long and full life, and he had an amazing last year of his life, but maybe you're just a bit too soon with this.
Everything has been a bit weird for everyone and people form strange attachments with stars and celebrities and some become living icons, or embodiments of hope in difficult times. He was one of those for many. People project all sorts onto them, and then when they die it feels very personal.
So some people will be very upset (even if they can't logically explain it). Others will mouth platitudes. Others will be respectfully silent. And others will do what you've just done, and shrug their shoulders and go "Eh? What's all that about?"
I never got the Captain Tom thing. It always felt to me that it was artificially inflated by TV Producers who needed live footage, and then the Army who got in on the act. But some people did get it. And he became important to them, a symbol of hope in surreal and confusing times.
If any of the Schitt's Creek cast die, I'll be gutted. They've been my bright light of lockdown, but each to their own. |  | | |
| A morbid debate on 16:42 - Feb 2 with 2144 views | SpruceMoose |
| A morbid debate on 16:37 - Feb 2 by Bluefish |
10 million* messages saying how tragic it is and no doubt wall to wall coverage on the news for days saying how tragic it is. Strangers interviewed in the streets, strangers sending in videos saying how it has touched them, strangers crying etc.
Possibly exaggeration |
It's just a numbers game innit? The whole country (and other countries) know him, whereas nobody knows Joe Bloggs the 60 something in the planners office who was loved by his family and friends and sadly died yesterday.
I suppose I'm not sure what your point is. The deaths of famous people, especially when they are well liked, gets a lot of attention. It's newsworthy. Will we all still be thinking about Sir Tom in six months? Probably not, certainly not every day. Will the Family of Joe Bloggs still be thinking about Joe Bloggs? Definitely. [Post edited 2 Feb 2021 16:43]
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| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| A morbid debate on 16:43 - Feb 2 with 2129 views | Bluefish |
| A morbid debate on 16:40 - Feb 2 by Swansea_Blue |
Media studies 101: what makes something newsworthy
1. Timing - his war service and patriotism at a time of increasing nationalism around departing the EU
2. Significance - NHS in Covid year with focus on NHS
3. Proximity - UK story
4. Prominence - shot to fame with his fundraising efforts
5. Human interest - again fundraising efforts, being adopted as a national hero, his honour, his age making his actions last year rather unique
I don't think there's anything more to it than that. I wouldn't get a mention, and probably rightly so! |
But none of that should really matter. He is a person at the end of his life, he should be celebrated but hundreds of others are tragic | |
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| A morbid debate on 16:45 - Feb 2 with 2101 views | Bluefish |
| A morbid debate on 16:41 - Feb 2 by ArnoldMoorhen |
Yes, he did have a long and full life, and he had an amazing last year of his life, but maybe you're just a bit too soon with this.
Everything has been a bit weird for everyone and people form strange attachments with stars and celebrities and some become living icons, or embodiments of hope in difficult times. He was one of those for many. People project all sorts onto them, and then when they die it feels very personal.
So some people will be very upset (even if they can't logically explain it). Others will mouth platitudes. Others will be respectfully silent. And others will do what you've just done, and shrug their shoulders and go "Eh? What's all that about?"
I never got the Captain Tom thing. It always felt to me that it was artificially inflated by TV Producers who needed live footage, and then the Army who got in on the act. But some people did get it. And he became important to them, a symbol of hope in surreal and confusing times.
If any of the Schitt's Creek cast die, I'll be gutted. They've been my bright light of lockdown, but each to their own. |
I think I did one episode and gave up. I might have to have another look at that | |
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| A morbid debate on 16:45 - Feb 2 with 2099 views | SpruceMoose |
| A morbid debate on 16:43 - Feb 2 by Bluefish |
But none of that should really matter. He is a person at the end of his life, he should be celebrated but hundreds of others are tragic |
Honestly, I think you're seeing something that isn't there. | |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| A morbid debate on 16:46 - Feb 2 with 2090 views | Swansea_Blue |
| A morbid debate on 16:43 - Feb 2 by Bluefish |
But none of that should really matter. He is a person at the end of his life, he should be celebrated but hundreds of others are tragic |
I agree. It's just how the media works though. We've certainly become desensitised to the Covid deaths. We're edging up towards a number equal to British lives lost on the Somme. Will they be remembered in the same way? I doubt it. | |
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| A morbid debate on 16:46 - Feb 2 with 2096 views | Churchman |
| A morbid debate on 16:41 - Feb 2 by Steve_M |
I look forward to the fulsome expressions of regret from a Prime Minister who has shrugged off 100,000 deaths. |
I don’t think that’s fair either. Johnson has proven incompetent beyond belief in most elements of this crisis and I wish he wasn’t there, but I don’t think he has ‘shrugged off 100,000 deaths’.
Of course he’ll express regret over Captain Tom. As a public figure who tried to do something and succeeded, I would expect any PM to recognise him. | | | |
| A morbid debate on 16:48 - Feb 2 with 2069 views | Bluefish |
| A morbid debate on 16:45 - Feb 2 by SpruceMoose |
Honestly, I think you're seeing something that isn't there. |
I'll leave it because it isn't a great timing but these things never will be. I just don't understand people that revel in sharing grief and tragedy of strangers to be noticed
Going to be horrendous when the Queen pops off. I will be completely disinterested in that one | |
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| A morbid debate on 16:48 - Feb 2 with 2067 views | SpruceMoose |
| A morbid debate on 16:46 - Feb 2 by Churchman |
I don’t think that’s fair either. Johnson has proven incompetent beyond belief in most elements of this crisis and I wish he wasn’t there, but I don’t think he has ‘shrugged off 100,000 deaths’.
Of course he’ll express regret over Captain Tom. As a public figure who tried to do something and succeeded, I would expect any PM to recognise him. |
The best way for Johnson to demonstrate that he cares is to be a better human.
Boris only cares about Boris. I genuinely believe empathy is a performative act for him, not something he actually feels. | |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| A morbid debate on 16:49 - Feb 2 with 2054 views | SpruceMoose |
| A morbid debate on 16:48 - Feb 2 by Bluefish |
I'll leave it because it isn't a great timing but these things never will be. I just don't understand people that revel in sharing grief and tragedy of strangers to be noticed
Going to be horrendous when the Queen pops off. I will be completely disinterested in that one |
Yeah, I'm not sure where you're seeing any revelry but Imma leave it there. | |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| A morbid debate on 16:49 - Feb 2 with 2047 views | Bluefish |
| A morbid debate on 16:48 - Feb 2 by SpruceMoose |
The best way for Johnson to demonstrate that he cares is to be a better human.
Boris only cares about Boris. I genuinely believe empathy is a performative act for him, not something he actually feels. |
Agreed but Hancock might try to cry again | |
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| A morbid debate on 16:51 - Feb 2 with 2039 views | Swansea_Blue |
| A morbid debate on 16:46 - Feb 2 by Churchman |
I don’t think that’s fair either. Johnson has proven incompetent beyond belief in most elements of this crisis and I wish he wasn’t there, but I don’t think he has ‘shrugged off 100,000 deaths’.
Of course he’ll express regret over Captain Tom. As a public figure who tried to do something and succeeded, I would expect any PM to recognise him. |
It's a funny one. I'm sure he regrets tham; he did say he was sorry. But then but then his words are at odds with his actions. He could have done more to prevent the deaths (he was even told how), but didn't. He could have agreed to meet with the families of the bereaved who reached out to him, but didn't.
To give him the benefit of the doubt, we could say he's able to compartmentalise his feelings. Separate his personal and profession feelings, as you'd no doubt need to do in his role. Or maybe he's just not sincere. | |
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| A morbid debate on 16:51 - Feb 2 with 2033 views | ArnoldMoorhen |
| A morbid debate on 16:45 - Feb 2 by Bluefish |
I think I did one episode and gave up. I might have to have another look at that |
The characters are quite unlikeable at the beginning, but they go on a journey, and we go with them. By the end most people, myself included, love them. And if equality for LGBTQ+ people means something to you then you will be touched by the way the show simply treats it as a given. It kind of shows us how adults can and should behave, and how a society can be kind, and a community inclusive.
And then there is a "Making of" that needs to be saved to the end, that has moments of profound, deep, human connection and empathy. It's just life affirming. | | | |
| A morbid debate on 16:54 - Feb 2 with 2013 views | snudge27 |
As much as I disagree with the whole media circus surrounding the gent, I'd hope that the death of someone as prominent as Capt. Tom will serve to focus attentions somewhat on the Government's abysmal record.
Quite simply put, twelve months on from the start of the pandemic, Captain Tom did not have to die.
The fact that we still have hundreds of people dying every single day is nothing short of shameful, especially when you look at how other countries have fared over the course of the last year. |  |
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| A morbid debate on 16:55 - Feb 2 with 2000 views | BlueBadger |
| A morbid debate on 16:51 - Feb 2 by Swansea_Blue |
It's a funny one. I'm sure he regrets tham; he did say he was sorry. But then but then his words are at odds with his actions. He could have done more to prevent the deaths (he was even told how), but didn't. He could have agreed to meet with the families of the bereaved who reached out to him, but didn't.
To give him the benefit of the doubt, we could say he's able to compartmentalise his feelings. Separate his personal and profession feelings, as you'd no doubt need to do in his role. Or maybe he's just not sincere. |
He regrets them because they make him look bad and like an incompetent bumbler, not because he's got any kind of basic human decency. |  |
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