| Listening to the ECBs Tom Harrison on R4 this morning 07:52 - Nov 5 with 1479 views | homer_123 |
following the intervention of the ECB and withdrawing International matches from Yorkshire CCC.
Not sure if anyone else heard it but I was extremely disappointed. Seemed to be talk more about the reputation of Cricket and the ECB only getting involved because of the way YCCC have 'handled' the situation - not to do with the fact that someone was consistently racially abused...in fact, he had to correct himself as he kept call the situation 'allegations' when in fact it is now proven.
What's more interesting is that he denied having read the report (which he claims is due to the process the ECB are going through) and cannot confirm if 12 players have actually been named in the report.
This I find hard to believe in any shape or form - as CEO he will absolutely know and be acutely aware of the details of the report.
Got to feel for Azeem Rafiq and any others who have gone through similar, which I have no doubt there will be.
I see the Club are already losing major sponsors and a number of the board have offered their resignations. I would expect the entire board and Chairman to resign with immediate effect. |  |
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| Listening to the ECBs Tom Harrison on R4 this morning on 08:12 - Nov 5 with 1424 views | Coastalblue |
From what I heard yesterday there are one or two board members who have joined while this has been rumbling on and have had some positive impact in it getting toward where it is now so it may be a case of individual basis though I agree with your sentiment.
This whole thing is absolutely disgusting, smacks of privildged white middle aged males thinking they can behave how they like, and as you alluded to above one of the very worst parts is the fact that many in power seem more concerned about wider reputations, both of English cricket and individuals than actually addressing the problem.
What I fond gobsmacking is that Asian players are far from a minority at any level of the game, I think I naively assumed that a sport where Asian players made up 30-40% of the player base (could be higher, going from memory here) would be operating without racism aside from a few despicable exceptions. |  |
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| Listening to the ECBs Tom Harrison on R4 this morning on 08:19 - Nov 5 with 1414 views | IpswichKnight |
Any team who thinks the answer to there CEO problem is Colin “The Hundred” Graves is in for more trouble especially when Colin was also CEO when most of this happened. |  | | |
| Listening to the ECBs Tom Harrison on R4 this morning on 08:30 - Nov 5 with 1375 views | gordon |
It's inescapable to think that one of the reasons for this whole mess and the way it's been handled/covered-up is the reputation and status of those players named in the report. |  | | |
| Listening to the ECBs Tom Harrison on R4 this morning on 09:02 - Nov 5 with 1324 views | IpswichKnight |
Just gets worse, Chairman Roger Hutton has resigned and he’s one of the few who realised the seriousness and tried to act, he contacted ECB ( chairman at the time…..Colin Graves ) and asked for help and support for a proper enquiry this was declined. Colin Graves family have a trust which is owed a good sum from YCCC and have a veto on anyone trying to join the board. They did try to oust Roger Hutton earlier but were defeated in a vote. | | | |
| Listening to the ECBs Tom Harrison on R4 this morning on 09:23 - Nov 5 with 1288 views | Swansea_Blue |
I see what you mean, but I'm not sure they'd only be able to look at it solely from a reputation point of view. The scale of the sanctions shows how seriously they take it presumably? I didn't hear the interview though, so I'm only guessing how racism may be viewed in the ECB.
I'm impressed with the ECB's response, even if the motives for acting aren't necessarily clear. It send out a very strong message. As too does the withdrawal of sponsorship, etc. Yorkshire have nobody to blame but themselves. Their chairman has resigned now as well, and rightly so.
Can you imagine if FIFA/UEFA/FA responded as strongly to racism issues? Kick clubs out of national & international cups, domestic cups or even leagues, and they'd soon clean up their act. Or you could have a clause in TV contracts that states any racism issues could see the club/country lose TV money for that season. It'd focus minds and action. |  |
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| Listening to the ECBs Tom Harrison on R4 this morning on 09:47 - Nov 5 with 1226 views | homer_123 |
| Listening to the ECBs Tom Harrison on R4 this morning on 09:23 - Nov 5 by Swansea_Blue |
I see what you mean, but I'm not sure they'd only be able to look at it solely from a reputation point of view. The scale of the sanctions shows how seriously they take it presumably? I didn't hear the interview though, so I'm only guessing how racism may be viewed in the ECB.
I'm impressed with the ECB's response, even if the motives for acting aren't necessarily clear. It send out a very strong message. As too does the withdrawal of sponsorship, etc. Yorkshire have nobody to blame but themselves. Their chairman has resigned now as well, and rightly so.
Can you imagine if FIFA/UEFA/FA responded as strongly to racism issues? Kick clubs out of national & international cups, domestic cups or even leagues, and they'd soon clean up their act. Or you could have a clause in TV contracts that states any racism issues could see the club/country lose TV money for that season. It'd focus minds and action. |
Indeed, it is pleasing to see the ECB sanction YCCC in this way. However but the way it was portrayed was that it was because of the way YCCC had 'handled' the situation and not because of what actually happened. | |
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| Listening to the ECBs Tom Harrison on R4 this morning on 10:19 - Nov 5 with 1178 views | itfc48 |
The ECB have been reactive rather than proactive. They should have been far stronger far earlier on in the process. It increasingly sounds like Colin Graves is a common denominator here if Hutton's claims that the ECB declined to offer support are correct.
The sponsors withdrawing support was inevitable although it never sits right when Nike try and claim the moral high ground given their use of sweatshops. | | | |
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| Listening to the ECBs Tom Harrison on R4 this morning on 23:27 - Nov 5 with 997 views | Ryorry |
| Listening to the ECBs Tom Harrison on R4 this morning on 09:02 - Nov 5 by IpswichKnight |
Just gets worse, Chairman Roger Hutton has resigned and he’s one of the few who realised the seriousness and tried to act, he contacted ECB ( chairman at the time…..Colin Graves ) and asked for help and support for a proper enquiry this was declined. Colin Graves family have a trust which is owed a good sum from YCCC and have a veto on anyone trying to join the board. They did try to oust Roger Hutton earlier but were defeated in a vote. |
Hutton came across as quite aware on the news clip I saw, but at the same time I think it was he who said that YCCC had received legal advice that the evidence they had of racist abuse towards Rafiq was insufficient to be legally able to discipline the individual perpetrators.
Yet - Glad to see this still getting coverage, as Yorkshire Cricket Club by Ryorry 3 Nov 2021 19:18It gets even worse - according to the Torygraph - "Rafiq’s spokesperson has since pointed out that the law firm which oversaw the investigation - Squire Patton Boggs - was a former employer of Yorkshire chairman Roger Hutton. Rafiq had expected the investigation and panel’s report to be completed last Christmas."
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cricket/2021/11/03/former-england-star-gary-ballance-outed-yorkshire-cricketer/
Whilst the absence of Tests at Headingley would certainly hit YCCC very badly, ie in the pocket, that penalty would also unfortunately hit hundreds of thousands of cricket-loving Yorkshire people very badly :(
Two major things coming out of this for me -
1. Difficult to untangle a complicated web because of possible underlying sleaze.
2. YCCC have been allowed to carry on unchecked in 1950s "Old Skool" mode, & never been forced to drag their outdated attitudes into the 21stC till now.
Maybe some consolation for Rafiq that "all the poisons that lurk in the mud" are now "hatching out", precisely because the appalling experiences he had were allowed to fester in the dark and weren't properly dealt with at the time. Their consequent explosion into much wider & more intense lights of public scrutiny now should benefit cricket in the long run. [Post edited 5 Nov 2021 23:51]
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| Listening to the ECBs Tom Harrison on R4 this morning on 00:14 - Nov 6 with 949 views | Geomorph |
| Listening to the ECBs Tom Harrison on R4 this morning on 23:27 - Nov 5 by Ryorry |
Hutton came across as quite aware on the news clip I saw, but at the same time I think it was he who said that YCCC had received legal advice that the evidence they had of racist abuse towards Rafiq was insufficient to be legally able to discipline the individual perpetrators.
Yet - Glad to see this still getting coverage, as Yorkshire Cricket Club by Ryorry 3 Nov 2021 19:18It gets even worse - according to the Torygraph - "Rafiq’s spokesperson has since pointed out that the law firm which oversaw the investigation - Squire Patton Boggs - was a former employer of Yorkshire chairman Roger Hutton. Rafiq had expected the investigation and panel’s report to be completed last Christmas."
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cricket/2021/11/03/former-england-star-gary-ballance-outed-yorkshire-cricketer/
Whilst the absence of Tests at Headingley would certainly hit YCCC very badly, ie in the pocket, that penalty would also unfortunately hit hundreds of thousands of cricket-loving Yorkshire people very badly :(
Two major things coming out of this for me -
1. Difficult to untangle a complicated web because of possible underlying sleaze.
2. YCCC have been allowed to carry on unchecked in 1950s "Old Skool" mode, & never been forced to drag their outdated attitudes into the 21stC till now.
Maybe some consolation for Rafiq that "all the poisons that lurk in the mud" are now "hatching out", precisely because the appalling experiences he had were allowed to fester in the dark and weren't properly dealt with at the time. Their consequent explosion into much wider & more intense lights of public scrutiny now should benefit cricket in the long run. [Post edited 5 Nov 2021 23:51]
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Been the same since the days of boycott over in ‘gods own country’… listening to r5 tonight it’s been rife throughout English cricket Tbf [Post edited 6 Nov 2021 0:15]
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| Listening to the ECBs Tom Harrison on R4 this morning on 01:28 - Nov 6 with 908 views | Tractorboy24 |
I can see why he’s not yet read the report, because he will at some point be a level of escalation, so will need to have an impartial view when reading the report as fresh eyes.
The ECB can only currently act on the handling of this report, which has been awful, with the missed deadlines for publishing in full etc, because they currently have their own investigation pending on the report. So I assume there will be further sanctions on YCCC personnel for their actions once their investigation is concluded.
The claim about level of proof works both ways, whilst they may say Rafiq’s account alone isn’t strong enough, the investigation didn’t dig past his account. Just look at the allegation about Vaughan’s comments, it took less than 12 hours for another player to corroborate it, but Naved wasn’t part of the investigation. That statement shows the depth the culture of racism in that club goes, a young Rafiq in 2009 is greeted with the club captain and national hero questioning the number of Asian players in the team and they wonder why it’s taken him 10+ years to speak out?
The problem is that racism must exist at most major cricket clubs in this country, the level of migration in pre 70s from the Caribbean, 80s-90s from India & Pakistan, all cricket crazy nations and carried over here, but yet 99% of England players are white? Where the responsibility lies for that is a big question. |  | | |
| Listening to the ECBs Tom Harrison on R4 this morning on 09:01 - Nov 6 with 819 views | TheBawdseyButcher |
| Listening to the ECBs Tom Harrison on R4 this morning on 01:28 - Nov 6 by Tractorboy24 |
I can see why he’s not yet read the report, because he will at some point be a level of escalation, so will need to have an impartial view when reading the report as fresh eyes.
The ECB can only currently act on the handling of this report, which has been awful, with the missed deadlines for publishing in full etc, because they currently have their own investigation pending on the report. So I assume there will be further sanctions on YCCC personnel for their actions once their investigation is concluded.
The claim about level of proof works both ways, whilst they may say Rafiq’s account alone isn’t strong enough, the investigation didn’t dig past his account. Just look at the allegation about Vaughan’s comments, it took less than 12 hours for another player to corroborate it, but Naved wasn’t part of the investigation. That statement shows the depth the culture of racism in that club goes, a young Rafiq in 2009 is greeted with the club captain and national hero questioning the number of Asian players in the team and they wonder why it’s taken him 10+ years to speak out?
The problem is that racism must exist at most major cricket clubs in this country, the level of migration in pre 70s from the Caribbean, 80s-90s from India & Pakistan, all cricket crazy nations and carried over here, but yet 99% of England players are white? Where the responsibility lies for that is a big question. |
I can't argue with most of what you've said. However, we have 4 out of a squad 15 at the T20 World Cup who aren't white. It would be 5 if Archer was fit, so that would be a third of the players. I do think that there should be far more Asian players in the county set up than there is currently. I think there's many reasons for this and hopefully from the Sh!tstorm this situation is going to create, we can start to increase these numbers. | | | |
| Listening to the ECBs Tom Harrison on R4 this morning on 10:15 - Nov 6 with 784 views | Tractorboy24 |
| Listening to the ECBs Tom Harrison on R4 this morning on 09:01 - Nov 6 by TheBawdseyButcher |
I can't argue with most of what you've said. However, we have 4 out of a squad 15 at the T20 World Cup who aren't white. It would be 5 if Archer was fit, so that would be a third of the players. I do think that there should be far more Asian players in the county set up than there is currently. I think there's many reasons for this and hopefully from the Sh!tstorm this situation is going to create, we can start to increase these numbers. |
Whilst 4/15 is a much more realistic representation, Archer would be in the squad over Mills, so it would still be 4 if Archer was fit. T20 is a less traditional form of the sport which is probably the furthest from the board room’s taste (apart from the money it brings in the Blast), look at the Test squad going to the Ashes, you have Hameed and that selection was because of the awful form of Sibley, that is it.
The 99 percent figure was sort of hyperbolic, but if you go back historically, I reckon that number is closer to 90 percent. Certainly over the course of the last 10 years in Test matches I can maybe name 5/6 players who would be classed as non white. | | | |
| Listening to the ECBs Tom Harrison on R4 this morning on 11:18 - Nov 6 with 735 views | Ryorry |
There was an interesting feature on R5l this morning by a marketing consultant, who detailed exactly how much dosh YCCC will be losing from internationals & sponsorships being withdrawn.
Pretty scary stuff for them - loss of around £10m from Ashes Test, eg (including associated merchandise & catering sales); and losses of c. £3m p/a from sponsorships.
Now the Equalities & HRC are saying they may take the club to court over Rafiq's case.
I have no idea of how the club structure works on the financial side, but is there a danger they could be forced into receivership over all this? | |
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| Listening to the ECBs Tom Harrison on R4 this morning on 08:26 - Nov 8 with 635 views | homer_123 |
Missed that, thanks Steve! | |
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| Listening to the ECBs Tom Harrison on R4 this morning on 08:56 - Nov 8 with 599 views | Herbivore |
| Listening to the ECBs Tom Harrison on R4 this morning on 09:47 - Nov 5 by homer_123 |
Indeed, it is pleasing to see the ECB sanction YCCC in this way. However but the way it was portrayed was that it was because of the way YCCC had 'handled' the situation and not because of what actually happened. |
But is that necessarily problematic? If YCCC had handled it well, had their own house in order so that such allegations are investigated properly and appropriate actions taken, then I'm not sure there'd be a need for the ECB to become invovled. |  |
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