| Sectarianism 20:15 - Sep 10 with 5997 views | gtsb1966 |
Really has raised its ugly head since the Queens death hasn't it. I've seen the Celtic mural and heard the Shamrock Rovers fans on YouTube etc. Really hard to understand it. I suppose when the Pope dies it starts all over again from the other side. I just don't get it. |  | | |  |
| Sectarianism on 20:24 - Sep 10 with 3219 views | MattinLondon |
Personally speaking the religious bigotry exhibited by both Celtic and Rangers is why I don’t want them in the English leagues. It’s vile. |  | | |
| Sectarianism on 20:29 - Sep 10 with 3205 views | factual_blue |
The English crown has done unspeakable things to both the Irish and Scots in the past, so to that extent it's understandable. I didn't say excusable.
And all very much in the past. Whether memories should be so long is another matter. But I guess you could say if us English like to remember good bits of the past, should we be surprised if other want to remember bad bits? |  |
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| Sectarianism on 20:32 - Sep 10 with 3179 views | gtsb1966 |
| Sectarianism on 20:29 - Sep 10 by factual_blue |
The English crown has done unspeakable things to both the Irish and Scots in the past, so to that extent it's understandable. I didn't say excusable.
And all very much in the past. Whether memories should be so long is another matter. But I guess you could say if us English like to remember good bits of the past, should we be surprised if other want to remember bad bits? |
If we all had that attitude we would all hate young Germans because of WW2. It's bollox. | | | |
| Sectarianism on 20:33 - Sep 10 with 3162 views | noggin |
Are you ignoring history? Did The Queen ever apologise for that history? |  |
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| Sectarianism on 20:34 - Sep 10 with 3149 views | noggin |
| Sectarianism on 20:32 - Sep 10 by gtsb1966 |
If we all had that attitude we would all hate young Germans because of WW2. It's bollox. |
Have they said they hate all English people? | |
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| Sectarianism on 20:36 - Sep 10 with 3117 views | jeera |
| Sectarianism on 20:32 - Sep 10 by gtsb1966 |
If we all had that attitude we would all hate young Germans because of WW2. It's bollox. |
Yes and no. I suppose the obvious thing to point out is that Germany lost so the influence didn't remain.
Now spin that and consider the feeling today had they won. |  |
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| Sectarianism on 20:37 - Sep 10 with 3110 views | factual_blue |
| Sectarianism on 20:32 - Sep 10 by gtsb1966 |
If we all had that attitude we would all hate young Germans because of WW2. It's bollox. |
Maybe it is.
On the other hand, England's less than pleasant interference with Ireland (and to a slightly lesser extent Scotland) went on for nearer six hundred years, not six.
And no Germans have actually expelled English from their homes, appropriated their land and sent them to colonise an empty wilderness. | |
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| Sectarianism on 20:40 - Sep 10 with 3081 views | MattinLondon |
| Sectarianism on 20:33 - Sep 10 by noggin |
Are you ignoring history? Did The Queen ever apologise for that history? |
I doubt very much that people writing ‘f**k the Queen’ are motivated by history. | | | |
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| Sectarianism on 20:40 - Sep 10 with 3068 views | noggin |
| Sectarianism on 20:40 - Sep 10 by MattinLondon |
I doubt very much that people writing ‘f**k the Queen’ are motivated by history. |
And how many people wrote that? | |
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| Sectarianism on 20:43 - Sep 10 with 3047 views | factual_blue |
| Sectarianism on 20:36 - Sep 10 by jeera |
Yes and no. I suppose the obvious thing to point out is that Germany lost so the influence didn't remain.
Now spin that and consider the feeling today had they won. |
Had they tried in 1940, Operation Sea Lion would have certainly failed.
They lost their chance to defeat the D-Day invasion by failing to use the V1 rockets against the landing beaches. | |
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| Sectarianism on 20:43 - Sep 10 with 3040 views | factual_blue |
| Sectarianism on 20:40 - Sep 10 by MattinLondon |
I doubt very much that people writing ‘f**k the Queen’ are motivated by history. |
What are they motivated by then? | |
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| Sectarianism on 20:47 - Sep 10 with 3020 views | gtsb1966 |
| Sectarianism on 20:33 - Sep 10 by noggin |
Are you ignoring history? Did The Queen ever apologise for that history? |
Tell me why she should. [Post edited 10 Sep 2022 20:49]
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| Sectarianism on 20:47 - Sep 10 with 3014 views | noggin |
| Sectarianism on 20:40 - Sep 10 by MattinLondon |
I doubt very much that people writing ‘f**k the Queen’ are motivated by history. |
I bet you were shocked when you realised that Delia Smith isn't a whore. | |
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| Sectarianism on 20:51 - Sep 10 with 2974 views | factual_blue |
| Sectarianism on 20:47 - Sep 10 by gtsb1966 |
Tell me why she should. [Post edited 10 Sep 2022 20:49]
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Whilst not a fan of apologies for historical wrongs, they do have some merit if they can improve the future.
And, as I've said, England's involvement with Ireland isn't filled with glory. That's probably why we don't talk about it much. | |
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| Sectarianism on 20:53 - Sep 10 with 2958 views | WD19 |
| Sectarianism on 20:34 - Sep 10 by noggin |
Have they said they hate all English people? |
No, even they know that’s your job. |  | | |
| Sectarianism on 20:55 - Sep 10 with 2956 views | ArnoldMoorhen |
| Sectarianism on 20:33 - Sep 10 by noggin |
Are you ignoring history? Did The Queen ever apologise for that history? |
Yes, she did. In her own way.
https://www.irishpost.com/features/in-full-the-queens-speech-during-her-visit-to
Worth remembering that Lord Mountbatten, Prince Philip's Uncle, was killed by an IRA bomb in Ireland in 1979, so there is personal weight to her words of reconciliation.
(Some would also say that the worst atrocities against Irish Catholics were carried out under Oliver Cromwell, and the Royal Family can't be held accountable for his actions, but that is very much an aside) |  | | |
| Sectarianism on 20:56 - Sep 10 with 2945 views | gtsb1966 |
| Sectarianism on 20:51 - Sep 10 by factual_blue |
Whilst not a fan of apologies for historical wrongs, they do have some merit if they can improve the future.
And, as I've said, England's involvement with Ireland isn't filled with glory. That's probably why we don't talk about it much. |
The people who use historical events as an excuse for hatred have no interest in apologies. | | | |
| Sectarianism on 20:58 - Sep 10 with 2919 views | factual_blue |
| Sectarianism on 20:56 - Sep 10 by gtsb1966 |
The people who use historical events as an excuse for hatred have no interest in apologies. |
How do you know that? It's a very sweeping statement to make. | |
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| Sectarianism on 20:59 - Sep 10 with 2905 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Sectarianism on 20:47 - Sep 10 by noggin |
I bet you were shocked when you realised that Delia Smith isn't a whore. |
Do you have any evidence to substantiate your opinion? |  |
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| Sectarianism on 21:00 - Sep 10 with 2889 views | MattinLondon |
| Sectarianism on 20:47 - Sep 10 by noggin |
I bet you were shocked when you realised that Delia Smith isn't a whore. |
? | | | |
| Sectarianism on 21:03 - Sep 10 with 2871 views | MattinLondon |
| Sectarianism on 20:43 - Sep 10 by factual_blue |
What are they motivated by then? |
Actually what I wrote is wrong - obviously they are motivated by history but a form which is concentrated on a continuation of hatred and bigotry. Same with some Rangers fans - no doubt the vast majority of both sets of fans find such bigotry wrong and embarrassing. | | | |
| Sectarianism on 21:04 - Sep 10 with 2866 views | jeera |
| Sectarianism on 20:56 - Sep 10 by gtsb1966 |
The people who use historical events as an excuse for hatred have no interest in apologies. |
Well no that's just not the case.
There is plenty of resentment around the world left over from colonisation.
The myth that we are universally loved is just that.
That's not to say I'm on board with it; we are not responsible for the actions of our forefathers, but acknowledgement can at least go some way to repairing age-old rifts. [Post edited 10 Sep 2022 23:52]
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| Sectarianism on 21:09 - Sep 10 with 2818 views | Rob88 |
| Sectarianism on 20:24 - Sep 10 by MattinLondon |
Personally speaking the religious bigotry exhibited by both Celtic and Rangers is why I don’t want them in the English leagues. It’s vile. |
My Scottish nephew has just been given his first football kit and it’s The Ipswich town kit. My Scottish brother-in-law is happy as “it keeps him away from Celtic and Rangers”. | | | |
| Sectarianism on 21:10 - Sep 10 with 2816 views | factual_blue |
| Sectarianism on 21:04 - Sep 10 by jeera |
Well no that's just not the case.
There is plenty of resentment around the world left over from colonisation.
The myth that we are universally loved is just that.
That's not to say I'm on board with it; we are not responsible for the actions of our forefathers, but acknowledgement can at least go some way to repairing age-old rifts. [Post edited 10 Sep 2022 23:52]
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It's perhaps worth pointing out that maybe one reason we don't hate younger Germans is that younger Germans have totally repudiated their 20th century history. It's pretty difficult to hate somebody who is basically saying 'you're right. Our grandfathers did terrible, terrible things'.
Perhaps a lesson there for us? | |
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| Sectarianism on 21:15 - Sep 10 with 2770 views | Churchman |
| Sectarianism on 20:29 - Sep 10 by factual_blue |
The English crown has done unspeakable things to both the Irish and Scots in the past, so to that extent it's understandable. I didn't say excusable.
And all very much in the past. Whether memories should be so long is another matter. But I guess you could say if us English like to remember good bits of the past, should we be surprised if other want to remember bad bits? |
Every peoples have done unspeakable things. It is not the preserve of just the English or the English Crown.
For example, the Conqueror harried the north laying waste to it for 100 years. The Scots border-raided, enslaved and stole for 100s of years. The English did the same in return, ending after the Act of Union with the appalling smashing and starvation of Scotland post 1745.
The beautiful lament played by a sole piper Flowers of the Forest relates to the battle of Flodden in 1513 when the Scot’s were defeated after invading northern England. Mary QS fled Scotland then tried to usurp Elizabeth so gets killed yet it’s her son James 6th that took the throne.
The Stuarts proved not to be the most savoury mob and their successors weren’t a whole lot better. Perhaps the countries they came from should apologise for lumbering us with them. Of course not.
Ok I’ve majored on England Scotland, but the history of Wales England is dark too. Ireland - possibly even more so.
The story of the English monarchy is complex, often violent and much more besides - just like every other monarchy, Emperor, whatever. The Germans have to live not just with WW1 and WW2 but their East African genocide in the early 20c. I love Germany and like it’s people - should I hold the current generation for the impoverishment of my country and the death/maiming of relations of mine? Of course not.
How far back do we take memories? Should look for compo from France for Napoleon’s exploits? Maybe Denmark for the Viking invasion. Maybe Italy for Caesar’s and Claudius’ invasion and massacre of the Iceni and of course Germany for the Jutes, Saxons and Angles. Who invited them?
My view will always be learn from history, try and understand it and make a better world for the generations to come.
A drunken rant and just a view. |  | | |
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