| Free speech v hate speech... 08:10 - Jun 21 with 6195 views | bluelagos |
On the whole I support free speech and don't like it when people are cancelled etc.
But clearly there has to be a point where we criminalise words.
So my question to the board, which side of the line does this sit? Clearly it's based on ignorance/prejudice, even hatred. Am sure it will be investigated, but should it be prosecuted?
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| Free speech v hate speech... on 08:17 - Jun 21 with 2546 views | GlasgowBlue |
The bloke is a nasty piece of work who shouldn’t be getting any publicity. |  |
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| Free speech v hate speech... on 08:23 - Jun 21 with 2535 views | bluelagos |
| Free speech v hate speech... on 08:17 - Jun 21 by GlasgowBlue |
The bloke is a nasty piece of work who shouldn’t be getting any publicity. |
Can see your point, but you've avoided the actual question of whether he should be prosecuted.
We ignored the hate preacher bloke (sat outside the Finsbury park Mosque in full view) who radicalised the 7/7 bombers rather than prosecuting him, and the results were terrible.
If we ignore rather than prosecute comments like these, we normalise/endorse them...
Is that what we want to do? Just ignore them as we don't wish to publicise them? | |
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| Free speech v hate speech... on 08:25 - Jun 21 with 2524 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Free speech v hate speech... on 08:23 - Jun 21 by bluelagos |
Can see your point, but you've avoided the actual question of whether he should be prosecuted.
We ignored the hate preacher bloke (sat outside the Finsbury park Mosque in full view) who radicalised the 7/7 bombers rather than prosecuting him, and the results were terrible.
If we ignore rather than prosecute comments like these, we normalise/endorse them...
Is that what we want to do? Just ignore them as we don't wish to publicise them? |
Well there is clearly a case to answer for hate speech. But I doubt he’ll be prosecuted. | |
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| Free speech v hate speech... on 08:57 - Jun 21 with 2470 views | Darth_Koont |
If there were a real cancel culture then that would be the end of him. But with social media platforms and the ease of self-publishing he’s free to spread this offensive guff.
So yes, morally but also practically, it would be good to see loons like this held to account by the law. |  |
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| Free speech v hate speech... on 08:59 - Jun 21 with 2463 views | Herbivore |
It's a hate crime and he should be prosecuted. |  |
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| Free speech v hate speech... on 09:09 - Jun 21 with 2435 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Free speech v hate speech... on 08:59 - Jun 21 by Herbivore |
It's a hate crime and he should be prosecuted. |
He should be. But I’ve seen too many uk synagogue’s spray painted with Swastikas and other Nazi slogans and escaping prosecution to think that he will face any charges.
If he isn’t prosecuted then he should be banned from social media (again, not going to happen) and not given any airtime on mainstream British media. [Post edited 21 Jun 2023 9:10]
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| Free speech v hate speech... on 09:11 - Jun 21 with 2410 views | Blueschev |
His views are vile and should be challenged whenever they appear. However I'm very uncomfortable with governments, particularly this government, legislating on what people can or cannot think or say. |  | | |
| Free speech v hate speech... on 09:15 - Jun 21 with 2399 views | Blueschev |
| Free speech v hate speech... on 09:09 - Jun 21 by GlasgowBlue |
He should be. But I’ve seen too many uk synagogue’s spray painted with Swastikas and other Nazi slogans and escaping prosecution to think that he will face any charges.
If he isn’t prosecuted then he should be banned from social media (again, not going to happen) and not given any airtime on mainstream British media. [Post edited 21 Jun 2023 9:10]
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I think it's a bit of a leap to compare spray painting a swastika on a synagogue and doing a bad job of burning a pride flag in your back garden. | | | |
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| Free speech v hate speech... on 09:17 - Jun 21 with 2392 views | Darth_Koont |
| Free speech v hate speech... on 09:09 - Jun 21 by GlasgowBlue |
He should be. But I’ve seen too many uk synagogue’s spray painted with Swastikas and other Nazi slogans and escaping prosecution to think that he will face any charges.
If he isn’t prosecuted then he should be banned from social media (again, not going to happen) and not given any airtime on mainstream British media. [Post edited 21 Jun 2023 9:10]
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“I’ve seen too many uk synagogue’s spray painted with Swastikas and other Nazi slogans and escaping prosecution”
Evidence? | |
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| Free speech v hate speech... on 09:19 - Jun 21 with 2362 views | Herbivore |
| Free speech v hate speech... on 09:09 - Jun 21 by GlasgowBlue |
He should be. But I’ve seen too many uk synagogue’s spray painted with Swastikas and other Nazi slogans and escaping prosecution to think that he will face any charges.
If he isn’t prosecuted then he should be banned from social media (again, not going to happen) and not given any airtime on mainstream British media. [Post edited 21 Jun 2023 9:10]
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Did the perpetrators post a video on their personal social media accounts and still get away with it? If so that is absolutely shocking. | |
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| Free speech v hate speech... on 09:19 - Jun 21 with 2361 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Free speech v hate speech... on 09:15 - Jun 21 by Blueschev |
I think it's a bit of a leap to compare spray painting a swastika on a synagogue and doing a bad job of burning a pride flag in your back garden. |
There was another part of my post which I edited out when I saw who one of the contributors to this thread was, and didn’t fancy ten pages of his disgusting views, which gave it more context.
I don’t believe he will be prosecuted. He should be but he won’t be. | |
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| Free speech v hate speech... on 09:21 - Jun 21 with 2346 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Free speech v hate speech... on 09:19 - Jun 21 by Herbivore |
Did the perpetrators post a video on their personal social media accounts and still get away with it? If so that is absolutely shocking. |
I edited that bit out Herbie. See my reply to blueschev. | |
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| Free speech v hate speech... on 09:22 - Jun 21 with 2334 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Free speech v hate speech... on 09:17 - Jun 21 by Darth_Koont |
“I’ve seen too many uk synagogue’s spray painted with Swastikas and other Nazi slogans and escaping prosecution”
Evidence? |
Not engaging with you. Sorry. Not fair on the op. I’ll leave the thread. | |
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| Free speech v hate speech... on 09:23 - Jun 21 with 2322 views | DJR |
To be honest, he is merely someone at perhaps the more controversial end of policies promoted by organisations like the Heritage Foundation, at which Liz Truss spoke a couple of months ago.
https://www.mediamatters.org/heritage-foundation/anti-lgbtq-group-heritage-found
More worryingly for me is that the type of the culture wars policies he supports are now fairly mainstream in the Tory Party, on GB News and in the right wing press.
Bur as a supporter of free speech, I am not sure what can really be done about this, now that the genie is out of the bottle (especially given the vast number of despicable comments on social media more generally), apart from the left standing up more strongly for progressive policies (as is happening in the US but not in the UK).
As it is, I think he comes across as fairly manic, so may do more harm to the cause than good. But this is not the case with the more "respectable" media supporting such policies. [Post edited 21 Jun 2023 9:27]
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| Free speech v hate speech... on 09:25 - Jun 21 with 2307 views | Darth_Koont |
| Free speech v hate speech... on 09:19 - Jun 21 by GlasgowBlue |
There was another part of my post which I edited out when I saw who one of the contributors to this thread was, and didn’t fancy ten pages of his disgusting views, which gave it more context.
I don’t believe he will be prosecuted. He should be but he won’t be. |
This nasty, disingenuous stuff from you has been going on for years.
It’s really very tiresome. | |
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| Free speech v hate speech... on 09:27 - Jun 21 with 2296 views | Darth_Koont |
| Free speech v hate speech... on 09:22 - Jun 21 by GlasgowBlue |
Not engaging with you. Sorry. Not fair on the op. I’ll leave the thread. |
Clown. | |
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| Free speech v hate speech... on 09:30 - Jun 21 with 2268 views | DanTheMan |
| Free speech v hate speech... on 09:23 - Jun 21 by DJR |
To be honest, he is merely someone at perhaps the more controversial end of policies promoted by organisations like the Heritage Foundation, at which Liz Truss spoke a couple of months ago.
https://www.mediamatters.org/heritage-foundation/anti-lgbtq-group-heritage-found
More worryingly for me is that the type of the culture wars policies he supports are now fairly mainstream in the Tory Party, on GB News and in the right wing press.
Bur as a supporter of free speech, I am not sure what can really be done about this, now that the genie is out of the bottle (especially given the vast number of despicable comments on social media more generally), apart from the left standing up more strongly for progressive policies (as is happening in the US but not in the UK).
As it is, I think he comes across as fairly manic, so may do more harm to the cause than good. But this is not the case with the more "respectable" media supporting such policies. [Post edited 21 Jun 2023 9:27]
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"so may do more harm to the cause than good"
Unfortunately this obsession with calling doctors and other health professionals dealing with gender dysmorphia "child mutilators" is having real world consequences. Certainly in the US, and we always seem more than happy to import their culture wars.
I do agree though that it would make me uncomfortable if he was prosecuted for this. What he's saying is awful and offensive but it's probably right on the line of actual hate speech.
Should probably face a ban from Twitter from it but of course new Twitter loves this kind of thing. [Post edited 21 Jun 2023 9:32]
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| Free speech v hate speech... on 09:38 - Jun 21 with 2206 views | DJR |
| Free speech v hate speech... on 09:30 - Jun 21 by DanTheMan |
"so may do more harm to the cause than good"
Unfortunately this obsession with calling doctors and other health professionals dealing with gender dysmorphia "child mutilators" is having real world consequences. Certainly in the US, and we always seem more than happy to import their culture wars.
I do agree though that it would make me uncomfortable if he was prosecuted for this. What he's saying is awful and offensive but it's probably right on the line of actual hate speech.
Should probably face a ban from Twitter from it but of course new Twitter loves this kind of thing. [Post edited 21 Jun 2023 9:32]
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Sorry, I bow to your greater knowledge on this particular area (and that terminology) than me.
I think I was trying to merely say that people like him (and Russell Brand and Neil Oliver) come across to me as manic, so may not be as influential as the supposedly respectable media.
Don't forget that at the height of the Scottish Gender Recognition Bill "controversy", the Mail was running something in excess of five anti-trans articles daily, which in my view would have had much much greater impact on the debate than anything Laurence Fox was pumping out. [Post edited 21 Jun 2023 9:39]
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| Free speech v hate speech... on 09:38 - Jun 21 with 2202 views | J2BLUE |
Not sure but either way it's pretty pathetic.
It seems clear this trans vs cis women thing is going to blow up big time before the next election. Starmer needs to decide where he stands right now.
Oh and before the usual suspects start, you can read my idea for a fair compromise on the last thread like this. And yes, there does need to be compromise. |  |
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| Free speech v hate speech... on 09:42 - Jun 21 with 2170 views | blueasfook |
What a bellend. It would have been funny if he had set fire to his fence. |  |
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| Free speech v hate speech... on 09:42 - Jun 21 with 2159 views | MattinLondon |
| Free speech v hate speech... on 09:15 - Jun 21 by Blueschev |
I think it's a bit of a leap to compare spray painting a swastika on a synagogue and doing a bad job of burning a pride flag in your back garden. |
I disagree - both actions arise from hatred and bigotry as well as an absolute desire to belittle and humiliate one group(s) of people. Racism doesn’t just appear at one level, it gets built gradually until society views it as normal. For example in Germany during the 1920s someone started to hand out leaflets condemning Jews as inhumane and probably as child mutilators and then views like that become normalised. Ok, that’s an extreme version to use but it happens and continue to happen.
Fox is an intelligent man - it’s all too easy to say that he’s a daft racist. His video is aimed at a targeted audience as well as trying to appeal to those on the fringes of his views. He knows what he’s doing. He has labelled a group of people as child abusers and he should be punished. |  | | |
| Free speech v hate speech... on 09:46 - Jun 21 with 2109 views | chicoazul |
| Free speech v hate speech... on 08:23 - Jun 21 by bluelagos |
Can see your point, but you've avoided the actual question of whether he should be prosecuted.
We ignored the hate preacher bloke (sat outside the Finsbury park Mosque in full view) who radicalised the 7/7 bombers rather than prosecuting him, and the results were terrible.
If we ignore rather than prosecute comments like these, we normalise/endorse them...
Is that what we want to do? Just ignore them as we don't wish to publicise them? |
You’re giving him exactly what he wants. |  |
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| Free speech v hate speech... on 09:51 - Jun 21 with 2074 views | Blueschev |
| Free speech v hate speech... on 09:42 - Jun 21 by MattinLondon |
I disagree - both actions arise from hatred and bigotry as well as an absolute desire to belittle and humiliate one group(s) of people. Racism doesn’t just appear at one level, it gets built gradually until society views it as normal. For example in Germany during the 1920s someone started to hand out leaflets condemning Jews as inhumane and probably as child mutilators and then views like that become normalised. Ok, that’s an extreme version to use but it happens and continue to happen.
Fox is an intelligent man - it’s all too easy to say that he’s a daft racist. His video is aimed at a targeted audience as well as trying to appeal to those on the fringes of his views. He knows what he’s doing. He has labelled a group of people as child abusers and he should be punished. |
I do see your point, though I'd question how intelligent Lawrence Fox actually is.
I agree that his views need to be countered so they are not normalised, I just don't trust governments legislating on such matters not to abuse said powers. | | | |
| Free speech v hate speech... on 09:54 - Jun 21 with 2059 views | blueasfook |
| Free speech v hate speech... on 09:25 - Jun 21 by Darth_Koont |
This nasty, disingenuous stuff from you has been going on for years.
It’s really very tiresome. |
I'll tell you what is tiresome. You jumping on just about everything GB posts, looking to start a fight.
Grow up. | |
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| Free speech v hate speech... on 09:57 - Jun 21 with 2031 views | MattinLondon |
| Free speech v hate speech... on 09:51 - Jun 21 by Blueschev |
I do see your point, though I'd question how intelligent Lawrence Fox actually is.
I agree that his views need to be countered so they are not normalised, I just don't trust governments legislating on such matters not to abuse said powers. |
And I understand your point as well. A government minister might well ignore this but then demand six months in jail for someone burnt Union Flag bunting. | | | |
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