| The JRF on poverty in 2023 16:11 - Oct 25 with 1814 views | Mullet |
https://www.jrf.org.uk/report/uk-poverty-2023
The summary is well worth a read. It's a national shame, which largely is forgotten about at the minute you could argue because of the understandably worrying events in the Middle East and Ukraine dominating people's attention.
Worse, it's possible we've just become immune or accepting of such levels of poverty in this country because it's not directly affecting us quite so much.
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| The JRF on poverty in 2023 on 16:20 - Oct 25 with 1786 views | Reus30 |
Strange to think that England has more poverty than Scotland. Not what I expected but maybe I lived a sheltered existence in the south previously.
It's just criminal that we have any form of poverty in the UK and the statistics around children and pensioners just breaks me to be honest, I am scared for my older family members.
Such grim reading but appreciate you sharing. Maybe things will change soon but I only see it getting worse. I am starting to think this is intentional to kill off the poorest of us. |  | | |
| The JRF on poverty in 2023 on 17:39 - Oct 25 with 1730 views | Clapham_Junction |
| The JRF on poverty in 2023 on 16:20 - Oct 25 by Reus30 |
Strange to think that England has more poverty than Scotland. Not what I expected but maybe I lived a sheltered existence in the south previously.
It's just criminal that we have any form of poverty in the UK and the statistics around children and pensioners just breaks me to be honest, I am scared for my older family members.
Such grim reading but appreciate you sharing. Maybe things will change soon but I only see it getting worse. I am starting to think this is intentional to kill off the poorest of us. |
Scotland having less poverty is largely down to lower housing costs - partly because they have more social housing.
Poverty has been inflicted by government policies like RTB. 80% of housing in Tower Hamlets was council housing in 1980s - if that was still the case, many people in the borough would be much better off (aside from the few that bought up loads of ex council flats and became slum landlords) |  | | |
| The JRF on poverty in 2023 on 17:40 - Oct 25 with 1729 views | Mullet |
| The JRF on poverty in 2023 on 16:20 - Oct 25 by Reus30 |
Strange to think that England has more poverty than Scotland. Not what I expected but maybe I lived a sheltered existence in the south previously.
It's just criminal that we have any form of poverty in the UK and the statistics around children and pensioners just breaks me to be honest, I am scared for my older family members.
Such grim reading but appreciate you sharing. Maybe things will change soon but I only see it getting worse. I am starting to think this is intentional to kill off the poorest of us. |
The North of England, especially the North East and in the big cities across the M62 corridor, have horrific poverty. Child poverty and poverty amongst ethnic minorities is getting worse as demographics change.
As we get older, we're less likely to notice child poverty I guess, I've no idea how you measure exposure to ethnic minorities beyond broad brush demographic spread through censuses etc.
The population densities in NI and Scotland will also be a big factor I'd suspect. As the people who fall below the poverty line (the official one being created and manipulated by the government of the time) it can be shifted, whereas the non-monetary measures such as housing and healthcare can't.
Another former pupil of mine was in the news this week for being involved in serious drug-related crime. There's no excuse for it, but the root cause long and short term is poverty fundamentally.
Combine that report with recent news about the prison system and we are shifting ever closer to a downward spiral similar to America in so many institutions. Healthcare, education and prison being the notable three. | |
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| The JRF on poverty in 2023 on 18:36 - Oct 25 with 1664 views | BlueBadger |
| The JRF on poverty in 2023 on 17:40 - Oct 25 by Mullet |
The North of England, especially the North East and in the big cities across the M62 corridor, have horrific poverty. Child poverty and poverty amongst ethnic minorities is getting worse as demographics change.
As we get older, we're less likely to notice child poverty I guess, I've no idea how you measure exposure to ethnic minorities beyond broad brush demographic spread through censuses etc.
The population densities in NI and Scotland will also be a big factor I'd suspect. As the people who fall below the poverty line (the official one being created and manipulated by the government of the time) it can be shifted, whereas the non-monetary measures such as housing and healthcare can't.
Another former pupil of mine was in the news this week for being involved in serious drug-related crime. There's no excuse for it, but the root cause long and short term is poverty fundamentally.
Combine that report with recent news about the prison system and we are shifting ever closer to a downward spiral similar to America in so many institutions. Healthcare, education and prison being the notable three. |
Yes, but trans people. |  |
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| The JRF on poverty in 2023 on 18:42 - Oct 25 with 1657 views | noggin |
Greed is the only reason for poverty in the UK. Anyone who voted tory should be ashamed of themselves. |  |
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| The JRF on poverty in 2023 on 18:43 - Oct 25 with 1654 views | FromReuserWithLove |
can we call it a 'greedy sh!t government crisis' rather than a 'cost of living crisis' which rather sugar coats it and shifts the blame elsewhere? |  | | |
| The JRF on poverty in 2023 on 10:20 - Oct 26 with 1537 views | Mullet |
| The JRF on poverty in 2023 on 18:43 - Oct 25 by FromReuserWithLove |
can we call it a 'greedy sh!t government crisis' rather than a 'cost of living crisis' which rather sugar coats it and shifts the blame elsewhere? |
I do think when the election comes Starmer would do well to use his reputation and expertise as a prosecutor. A simple attack line of all the money gone missing, what punishments will be sought etc. would be a simple vote winner. | |
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| The JRF on poverty in 2023 on 10:27 - Oct 26 with 1529 views | Darth_Koont |
This is a result of our political values. We’ve got what we told ourselves we wanted. And 4+ million kids living in poverty has been seen as just the way it goes.
Anyone serious about this widening inequality and injustice over the past few decades has been demonised and dismissed. |  |
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| The JRF on poverty in 2023 on 10:31 - Oct 26 with 1512 views | WeWereZombies |
| The JRF on poverty in 2023 on 10:20 - Oct 26 by Mullet |
I do think when the election comes Starmer would do well to use his reputation and expertise as a prosecutor. A simple attack line of all the money gone missing, what punishments will be sought etc. would be a simple vote winner. |
This morning's 'in Our Time' on Emile Zola's 'Germinal' was interesting for the comparisons with the inequality of France's Second Empire and our own times, nowhere near as harsh (or as terminally decadent as early Twentieth Century Russia) but the obscene quest for money coupled with a disregard for the welfare of others and a willingness to exploit weaknesses for sensual pleasure (whether sexual or substance based) is a grave warning sign. |  |
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| The JRF on poverty in 2023 on 10:36 - Oct 26 with 1497 views | Mullet |
| The JRF on poverty in 2023 on 10:27 - Oct 26 by Darth_Koont |
This is a result of our political values. We’ve got what we told ourselves we wanted. And 4+ million kids living in poverty has been seen as just the way it goes.
Anyone serious about this widening inequality and injustice over the past few decades has been demonised and dismissed. |
When was Tony Blair demonised in 1997 for his "education, education, education" speech and the measures he brought in?
Maybe it's a result of your political values, not mine. | |
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| The JRF on poverty in 2023 on 10:36 - Oct 26 with 1492 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| The JRF on poverty in 2023 on 10:20 - Oct 26 by Mullet |
I do think when the election comes Starmer would do well to use his reputation and expertise as a prosecutor. A simple attack line of all the money gone missing, what punishments will be sought etc. would be a simple vote winner. |
An even better line would be a clear demonstration of where the money has been wasted and how it can be spent to provide good investment in public services for the betterment of society and therefore every individual within it. Of course, that does also require him to have those policies.
Didn't the cap on the bankers' bonuses get lifted today too? One last chance to make as much money for their mates and families as they can I suppose. |  |
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| The JRF on poverty in 2023 on 10:40 - Oct 26 with 1478 views | Mullet |
| The JRF on poverty in 2023 on 10:36 - Oct 26 by Nthsuffolkblue |
An even better line would be a clear demonstration of where the money has been wasted and how it can be spent to provide good investment in public services for the betterment of society and therefore every individual within it. Of course, that does also require him to have those policies.
Didn't the cap on the bankers' bonuses get lifted today too? One last chance to make as much money for their mates and families as they can I suppose. |
I think the scum in power have realised they've got no chance other than to reduce the majority and split the votes where they can, e.g. help the Lib Dems in places that will eat away at Labour.
They've been scraping the trough clean in recent months. No attempt to hide it. | |
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| The JRF on poverty in 2023 on 12:48 - Oct 26 with 1429 views | Darth_Koont |
| The JRF on poverty in 2023 on 10:36 - Oct 26 by Mullet |
When was Tony Blair demonised in 1997 for his "education, education, education" speech and the measures he brought in?
Maybe it's a result of your political values, not mine. |
Education and the NHS are the acceptable faces of our social democratic past. But still with an unwillingness to pay for them. So we can invest in them only when growth allows. And as for looking after the poorest in society ... forget about it.
That’s just not taking this stuff seriously enough.
You surely know this. | |
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| The JRF on poverty in 2023 on 12:57 - Oct 26 with 1409 views | Mullet |
| The JRF on poverty in 2023 on 12:48 - Oct 26 by Darth_Koont |
Education and the NHS are the acceptable faces of our social democratic past. But still with an unwillingness to pay for them. So we can invest in them only when growth allows. And as for looking after the poorest in society ... forget about it.
That’s just not taking this stuff seriously enough.
You surely know this. |
You didn't answer the question.
If you're going to switch from trying to hijack a thread into another tawdry leftier-than-thou Jezza pity party to stuff like this it's going to be a struggle to generate the tens of pages necessary. | |
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| The JRF on poverty in 2023 on 13:29 - Oct 26 with 1356 views | Darth_Koont |
| The JRF on poverty in 2023 on 12:57 - Oct 26 by Mullet |
You didn't answer the question.
If you're going to switch from trying to hijack a thread into another tawdry leftier-than-thou Jezza pity party to stuff like this it's going to be a struggle to generate the tens of pages necessary. |
I did. You just don’t like it.
The big gaps in society widened significantly under New Labour and the new financialised opportunities of the market and cheap credit/loans. Rising house prices and rents, plus insufficient social housing stock to fill the gap were cemented over this time. Ditto low and stagnant wages as these helped inflate profit and “growth” numbers. Also the dogma that investment was dependent on growth not society making any actual sacrifice. You wonder about the normalisation of this stuff and there it is.
I’ll leave you to posture on inequality and poverty without looking at the root cause: our undoubted acceptance of them across mainstream UK political parties, the right-leaning media and way too many of the electorate.
If you don’t think serious attempts to address this are being demonised and dismissed, look at the people behind your Enough is Enough campaign and where they figure. They’re marginal figures because this isn’t what politics is about for the people who run it. | |
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| The JRF on poverty in 2023 on 14:32 - Oct 26 with 1321 views | GeoffSentence |
"It might sound very surprising that measured levels of poverty fell in the first year of the pandemic. [...] A falling average income caused the relative poverty line to drop"
I think this is actually Tory policy for reducing poverty. |  |
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| The JRF on poverty in 2023 on 15:32 - Oct 26 with 1283 views | WeWereZombies |
| The JRF on poverty in 2023 on 13:29 - Oct 26 by Darth_Koont |
I did. You just don’t like it.
The big gaps in society widened significantly under New Labour and the new financialised opportunities of the market and cheap credit/loans. Rising house prices and rents, plus insufficient social housing stock to fill the gap were cemented over this time. Ditto low and stagnant wages as these helped inflate profit and “growth” numbers. Also the dogma that investment was dependent on growth not society making any actual sacrifice. You wonder about the normalisation of this stuff and there it is.
I’ll leave you to posture on inequality and poverty without looking at the root cause: our undoubted acceptance of them across mainstream UK political parties, the right-leaning media and way too many of the electorate.
If you don’t think serious attempts to address this are being demonised and dismissed, look at the people behind your Enough is Enough campaign and where they figure. They’re marginal figures because this isn’t what politics is about for the people who run it. |
Whilst I agree that the New Labour introduction of National Health Service reforms opened up gaps for enterprises that did not have the service's best interests at heart and that the continuance of failing initiatives like Public/Private Partnerships were ill judged I think you have to realise that a significant amount of new expenditure, by Gordon Brown as Chancellor especially, happened after the 1997 election triumph. It was a breath of fresh air after what went before. We need at least to get to that point again, when Labour party members and Labour voters can then begin to pressure a Government not to repeat the mistakes of the past. We are not there yet so arguing about hypotheticals only provides ammunition for the more atavistic posters on this forum, in my opinion. | |
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