| Privacy Vs common good.... 07:47 - Sep 18 with 3442 views | bluelagos |
Had a chat with my better half on this and can't decide where I sit.
Got bought one of those DNA test things and duly registered the kit so they can inform me of my heritage etc.
Struck me that no one has my DNA but now a big corporation does. Not myself worried about getting fingered for a murder etc.
But clearly there will be some unsolved cases where a DNA match would help catch the murderer. So is it all good for the police to access these companies DNA records? Do they already do it?
I kind of feel it's all good where they are investigating a rape or a murder but would be far less ok where it's a minor crime.
Where does the Twtd hive sit on it? |  |
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| Privacy Vs common good.... on 07:58 - Sep 18 with 2389 views | Pendejo |
Have you read their privacy policy?
Something you'd probably have to tick to say you read before ordering.
But you raise a fair point.
Once a person commits a crime, should they have privacy, if that privacy inhibits detection, resolution and prosecution of crime?
Often the law appears to favour the perpetrator over the victim
BUT
Flipside, PACE grew out of a miscarriage of justice that occurred in my home London Borough.
BUT
This (DNA) is absolute evidence isn't it? |  |
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| Privacy Vs common good.... on 08:05 - Sep 18 with 2360 views | WeWereZombies |
If it's AncestryDNA then expect a few emails with revised results as the Mormons try and make up their minds about what your ethnic background is (but don't worry, if you were never christened or baptised they will have taken care of that for you and you can change your username to BlueMormon...)
As far as Police access goes I think there are a number of legal hurdles that would have to be overcome before it would be admissible evidence and i think the forensics people would want to do their own one (there was a poster called ForensicBlue once, wasn't there ?) The danger comes in a mindlessly joined up World where AI grabs anything it can find, so there is some cause for concern. [Post edited 18 Sep 2024 8:08]
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| Privacy Vs common good.... on 08:07 - Sep 18 with 2346 views | bluelagos |
| Privacy Vs common good.... on 07:58 - Sep 18 by Pendejo |
Have you read their privacy policy?
Something you'd probably have to tick to say you read before ordering.
But you raise a fair point.
Once a person commits a crime, should they have privacy, if that privacy inhibits detection, resolution and prosecution of crime?
Often the law appears to favour the perpetrator over the victim
BUT
Flipside, PACE grew out of a miscarriage of justice that occurred in my home London Borough.
BUT
This (DNA) is absolute evidence isn't it? |
So I ticked the box to share my DNA with other Ancestry customers, so in theory could uncover some unknown relatives if some of my ancestors had kids out of wedlock/adoptions etc.
Not expecting anything but you never know. | |
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| Privacy Vs common good.... on 08:11 - Sep 18 with 2315 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
Have you considered someone at this heritage/ancestry place could now commit a crime and plant your DNA at the scene? Good plot for a movie, that!
On a side note, don't want to burst your bubble but I looked into getting one of these tests as a birthday present for my dad, but they're pretty expensive and don't seem all that accurate. The BBC podcast Sliced Bread did an episode on them as well and didn't seem to rate them much. |  |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Privacy Vs common good.... on 08:11 - Sep 18 with 2312 views | bluelagos |
| Privacy Vs common good.... on 08:05 - Sep 18 by WeWereZombies |
If it's AncestryDNA then expect a few emails with revised results as the Mormons try and make up their minds about what your ethnic background is (but don't worry, if you were never christened or baptised they will have taken care of that for you and you can change your username to BlueMormon...)
As far as Police access goes I think there are a number of legal hurdles that would have to be overcome before it would be admissible evidence and i think the forensics people would want to do their own one (there was a poster called ForensicBlue once, wasn't there ?) The danger comes in a mindlessly joined up World where AI grabs anything it can find, so there is some cause for concern. [Post edited 18 Sep 2024 8:08]
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Ref the police,.their own database will only include those previously arrested. So am thinking of them going to Ancestry and saying "any matches to this?" and potentially finding a suspect or close matches....
Bit confused about the Mormon thing...they use the data to try and recruit new Mormons? | |
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| Privacy Vs common good.... on 08:11 - Sep 18 with 2302 views | DanTheMan |
| Privacy Vs common good.... on 08:07 - Sep 18 by bluelagos |
So I ticked the box to share my DNA with other Ancestry customers, so in theory could uncover some unknown relatives if some of my ancestors had kids out of wedlock/adoptions etc.
Not expecting anything but you never know. |
I was not expecting anything either, then it turned out my grandfather had been quite the ladies' man. I was the missing link for working out for two people who their biological father was.
My mother-in-law found out she had a half-brother who lived across the street growing up. They had moved away very suddenly... |  |
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| Privacy Vs common good.... on 08:12 - Sep 18 with 2289 views | NthQldITFC |
My concern would not be with any judicial use of it as a fingerprint, but with the potential commercial misuse or even biological targeting in a non-healthcare sense.
To give that much (essentially all) of yourself into the hands of a commercial company and to trust their integrity and/or capability to provide security now and into the future (you'll never be sure they destroyed it even if you are able to request it) is, to me, naive in the extreme. There would have to be a very pressing (medical) reason, not a fascination with family history or with the shiny new exciting technology.
On top of that, we have no idea what future 'uses' a DNA profile might be put to, particularly in conjunction with AI evolving potential new 'applications' using bits of the data about your personal biology which you have provided without protection. |  |
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| Privacy Vs common good.... on 08:13 - Sep 18 with 2255 views | bluelagos |
| Privacy Vs common good.... on 08:11 - Sep 18 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Have you considered someone at this heritage/ancestry place could now commit a crime and plant your DNA at the scene? Good plot for a movie, that!
On a side note, don't want to burst your bubble but I looked into getting one of these tests as a birthday present for my dad, but they're pretty expensive and don't seem all that accurate. The BBC podcast Sliced Bread did an episode on them as well and didn't seem to rate them much. |
The lack of accuracy is what I am hoping for. My sister came out majority Scots so fingers crossed that was an error. 🤣 | |
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| Privacy Vs common good.... on 08:15 - Sep 18 with 2219 views | bluelagos |
| Privacy Vs common good.... on 08:12 - Sep 18 by NthQldITFC |
My concern would not be with any judicial use of it as a fingerprint, but with the potential commercial misuse or even biological targeting in a non-healthcare sense.
To give that much (essentially all) of yourself into the hands of a commercial company and to trust their integrity and/or capability to provide security now and into the future (you'll never be sure they destroyed it even if you are able to request it) is, to me, naive in the extreme. There would have to be a very pressing (medical) reason, not a fascination with family history or with the shiny new exciting technology.
On top of that, we have no idea what future 'uses' a DNA profile might be put to, particularly in conjunction with AI evolving potential new 'applications' using bits of the data about your personal biology which you have provided without protection. |
Oops. | |
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| Privacy Vs common good.... on 08:17 - Sep 18 with 2204 views | NthQldITFC |
| Privacy Vs common good.... on 08:13 - Sep 18 by bluelagos |
The lack of accuracy is what I am hoping for. My sister came out majority Scots so fingers crossed that was an error. 🤣 |
It's one of those paradoxical occasions where, if coming out majority Norfolk, crossing your fingers would give you a 20% better chance of avoiding that stigma, but only if you were already cursed in that very same way. | |
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| Privacy Vs common good.... on 08:19 - Sep 18 with 2185 views | WeWereZombies |
| Privacy Vs common good.... on 08:11 - Sep 18 by bluelagos |
Ref the police,.their own database will only include those previously arrested. So am thinking of them going to Ancestry and saying "any matches to this?" and potentially finding a suspect or close matches....
Bit confused about the Mormon thing...they use the data to try and recruit new Mormons? |
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baptism_for_the_dead#:~:text=The%20LDS%20Church%20
A quick Google found a refutation of the internet rumour that the owner of AncestryDNA, The Church Of The Latter Day Saints, use the platform to increase their numbers of dead souls, but it was on Quora so who knows ? [Post edited 18 Sep 2024 8:21]
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| Privacy Vs common good.... on 08:19 - Sep 18 with 2180 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Privacy Vs common good.... on 08:15 - Sep 18 by bluelagos |
Oops. |
Further to my previous answer, the owner of this ancestry place could be creating a clone army of Superbluelagoses to take over the world. Have you considered this possibility?
On the plus side, whilst we're all fecked you'd be relatively safe as you can just blend in... | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Privacy Vs common good.... on 08:20 - Sep 18 with 2180 views | NthQldITFC |
| Privacy Vs common good.... on 08:15 - Sep 18 by bluelagos |
Oops. |
Well, don't listen to me, I'm just increasingly cynical and biased against 'progress'.
I've got the hump because I heard the thing about butterfly and other insect declines on my wind up wireless this morning and it put me right off my gruel and rainwater. | |
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| Privacy Vs common good.... on 08:22 - Sep 18 with 2157 views | WeWereZombies |
| Privacy Vs common good.... on 08:20 - Sep 18 by NthQldITFC |
Well, don't listen to me, I'm just increasingly cynical and biased against 'progress'.
I've got the hump because I heard the thing about butterfly and other insect declines on my wind up wireless this morning and it put me right off my gruel and rainwater. |
You'll be making slow progress on knitting jumpers out of yoghurt this morning. | |
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| Privacy Vs common good.... on 08:23 - Sep 18 with 2153 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Privacy Vs common good.... on 08:20 - Sep 18 by NthQldITFC |
Well, don't listen to me, I'm just increasingly cynical and biased against 'progress'.
I've got the hump because I heard the thing about butterfly and other insect declines on my wind up wireless this morning and it put me right off my gruel and rainwater. |
Yeah but on the plus side, less butterflies means less chance of a tsunami in China... | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Privacy Vs common good.... on 08:26 - Sep 18 with 2128 views | bluelagos |
| Privacy Vs common good.... on 08:20 - Sep 18 by NthQldITFC |
Well, don't listen to me, I'm just increasingly cynical and biased against 'progress'.
I've got the hump because I heard the thing about butterfly and other insect declines on my wind up wireless this morning and it put me right off my gruel and rainwater. |
You still in Aus? So what's the story with bamboo? My Mrs reckons bamboo pillows are the future (my laughing didn't go down to well) | |
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| Privacy Vs common good.... on 08:34 - Sep 18 with 2100 views | Keno |
I just discovered I may have a Scottish great great great great great grandmother
Im now in the process of seeing if I can get a pet haggis, learn to tame bagpipes and wear a check skirt
You can take ma land
but ye cannae take ma Irn Bru!! |  |
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| Privacy Vs common good.... on 08:37 - Sep 18 with 2070 views | bluelagos |
| Privacy Vs common good.... on 08:34 - Sep 18 by Keno |
I just discovered I may have a Scottish great great great great great grandmother
Im now in the process of seeing if I can get a pet haggis, learn to tame bagpipes and wear a check skirt
You can take ma land
but ye cannae take ma Irn Bru!! |
We.could be related Keno and my grandad was bald in his 30s too. That said my boyish good looks come with a.full set of flowing locks. | |
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| Privacy Vs common good.... on 08:40 - Sep 18 with 2057 views | NthQldITFC |
| Privacy Vs common good.... on 08:26 - Sep 18 by bluelagos |
You still in Aus? So what's the story with bamboo? My Mrs reckons bamboo pillows are the future (my laughing didn't go down to well) |
No, I'm in the UK, sunny south Suffolk. Don't know about pillows, but I swear by bamboo socks (usually when a splinter gets under a toenail). | |
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| Privacy Vs common good.... on 09:28 - Sep 18 with 1873 views | Guthrum |
It's not really worth the effort for minor crimes.
First of all, it's a fairly long shot that close enough matching data exists in anyone's system. Someone has to go through and match that information. Then begins a time-consuming process of tracing all the relatives to find one who could have been in a position (age, location and so on) to commit the crime. Finally, having identified a suspect, they need to then obtain the person's actual DNA in order to have a match which will stand up in court.
They aren't going to do that for shoplifting. |  |
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| Privacy Vs common good.... on 09:37 - Sep 18 with 1830 views | Guthrum |
| Privacy Vs common good.... on 08:12 - Sep 18 by NthQldITFC |
My concern would not be with any judicial use of it as a fingerprint, but with the potential commercial misuse or even biological targeting in a non-healthcare sense.
To give that much (essentially all) of yourself into the hands of a commercial company and to trust their integrity and/or capability to provide security now and into the future (you'll never be sure they destroyed it even if you are able to request it) is, to me, naive in the extreme. There would have to be a very pressing (medical) reason, not a fascination with family history or with the shiny new exciting technology.
On top of that, we have no idea what future 'uses' a DNA profile might be put to, particularly in conjunction with AI evolving potential new 'applications' using bits of the data about your personal biology which you have provided without protection. |
It's no worse than using the internet, which, quietly in the background, harvests huge amounts of information about you and your lifestyle.
To escape that kind of thing completely requires cutting off all contact with humanity, hiding in a cabin in the woods, foraging for food. However, the best defence is sheer numbers. The immense quantity of data a malicious user would have to wade through in order to target you personally. It's not commercially viable.
Moreover, these labs are not decoding your entire genome. They're interested in specific elements, the chromosome markers which determine broad geographical family origins and/or distant relative matches. | |
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| Privacy Vs common good.... on 09:42 - Sep 18 with 1812 views | Keno |
| Privacy Vs common good.... on 08:37 - Sep 18 by bluelagos |
We.could be related Keno and my grandad was bald in his 30s too. That said my boyish good looks come with a.full set of flowing locks. |
but have you the legs for a Kilt?
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| Privacy Vs common good.... on 09:51 - Sep 18 with 1776 views | tcblue |
| Privacy Vs common good.... on 08:11 - Sep 18 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Have you considered someone at this heritage/ancestry place could now commit a crime and plant your DNA at the scene? Good plot for a movie, that!
On a side note, don't want to burst your bubble but I looked into getting one of these tests as a birthday present for my dad, but they're pretty expensive and don't seem all that accurate. The BBC podcast Sliced Bread did an episode on them as well and didn't seem to rate them much. |
Sorry for the serious answer, but DNA samples only stay 'good' for about six months, assuming they're stored correctly.
So, probably best to lay low for a year after doing your ancestry.com submission, just to be safe |  | | |
| Privacy Vs common good.... on 09:57 - Sep 18 with 1767 views | Guthrum |
| Privacy Vs common good.... on 08:11 - Sep 18 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Have you considered someone at this heritage/ancestry place could now commit a crime and plant your DNA at the scene? Good plot for a movie, that!
On a side note, don't want to burst your bubble but I looked into getting one of these tests as a birthday present for my dad, but they're pretty expensive and don't seem all that accurate. The BBC podcast Sliced Bread did an episode on them as well and didn't seem to rate them much. |
The plot of a BBC drama, perhaps. Maybe they could set it on a train ...
Realistically, they couldn't. There's no machine whereby you can put data in one end and get human flesh out the back. Multiple degrees in biochemistry and an expensive laboratory is a lot of effort just to frame some random person. Probably easier to just steal samples of your genuine bodily fluids.
Depends what you mean by accurate. They know the broad regional origins and modern concentrations of the various X- and Y-chromosome haplogroups. But a lot of populations are intermixed and do not conform to modern national boundaries. A lowland southern Scot will be pretty much identical to an Englishman, for example - they derive from the same peoples.
Unless they can make a match with someone else fairly close on the same family tree who has also contributed DNA to their database, it's impossible to pin it down any more than that. | |
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| Privacy Vs common good.... on 10:04 - Sep 18 with 1732 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Privacy Vs common good.... on 09:57 - Sep 18 by Guthrum |
The plot of a BBC drama, perhaps. Maybe they could set it on a train ...
Realistically, they couldn't. There's no machine whereby you can put data in one end and get human flesh out the back. Multiple degrees in biochemistry and an expensive laboratory is a lot of effort just to frame some random person. Probably easier to just steal samples of your genuine bodily fluids.
Depends what you mean by accurate. They know the broad regional origins and modern concentrations of the various X- and Y-chromosome haplogroups. But a lot of populations are intermixed and do not conform to modern national boundaries. A lowland southern Scot will be pretty much identical to an Englishman, for example - they derive from the same peoples.
Unless they can make a match with someone else fairly close on the same family tree who has also contributed DNA to their database, it's impossible to pin it down any more than that. |
Yeah that's it, the broadness of it and the fact that they're relying on people already on their system.* You're not going to find your exact family tree and the exact locations of where those people were born.
*Begs the question, why would anyone join in the first place? It must've been pretty cr@p at the start. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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