| Privacy Vs common good.... 07:47 - Sep 18 with 3440 views | bluelagos |
Had a chat with my better half on this and can't decide where I sit.
Got bought one of those DNA test things and duly registered the kit so they can inform me of my heritage etc.
Struck me that no one has my DNA but now a big corporation does. Not myself worried about getting fingered for a murder etc.
But clearly there will be some unsolved cases where a DNA match would help catch the murderer. So is it all good for the police to access these companies DNA records? Do they already do it?
I kind of feel it's all good where they are investigating a rape or a murder but would be far less ok where it's a minor crime.
Where does the Twtd hive sit on it? |  |
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| Privacy Vs common good.... on 10:04 - Sep 18 with 971 views | NthQldITFC |
| Privacy Vs common good.... on 09:37 - Sep 18 by Guthrum |
It's no worse than using the internet, which, quietly in the background, harvests huge amounts of information about you and your lifestyle.
To escape that kind of thing completely requires cutting off all contact with humanity, hiding in a cabin in the woods, foraging for food. However, the best defence is sheer numbers. The immense quantity of data a malicious user would have to wade through in order to target you personally. It's not commercially viable.
Moreover, these labs are not decoding your entire genome. They're interested in specific elements, the chromosome markers which determine broad geographical family origins and/or distant relative matches. |
I must admit I haven't read much on the subject, but I did read somewhere that there have been massive advances in automated processes for decoding big chunks of the genome recently. It's an automation and scale up issue only as far as I can see, with the limits to both disappearing with vast data storage capacity increases and AI-driven processing. Sequencing hardware availability might be the only limiting factor effectively?
A data-hungry commercial enterprise isn't only going to be interested in answering questions about family origins, when there is future revenue from selling that data in my opinion.
So from an admittedly uninformed position on the detail, on general principles alone I think that while it may not be an issue at the moment, it would be very unwise to assume that promises or regulations are going to safeguard the most personal of Personally Identifiable Information which we possess. |  |
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| Privacy Vs common good.... on 10:13 - Sep 18 with 946 views | You_Bloo_Right |
| Privacy Vs common good.... on 08:19 - Sep 18 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Further to my previous answer, the owner of this ancestry place could be creating a clone army of Superbluelagoses to take over the world. Have you considered this possibility?
On the plus side, whilst we're all fecked you'd be relatively safe as you can just blend in... |
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| Privacy Vs common good.... on 10:23 - Sep 18 with 931 views | DJR |
| Privacy Vs common good.... on 08:13 - Sep 18 by bluelagos |
The lack of accuracy is what I am hoping for. My sister came out majority Scots so fingers crossed that was an error. 🤣 |
She's a lucky women. |  | | |
| Privacy Vs common good.... on 10:45 - Sep 18 with 890 views | Kievthegreat |
| Privacy Vs common good.... on 07:58 - Sep 18 by Pendejo |
Have you read their privacy policy?
Something you'd probably have to tick to say you read before ordering.
But you raise a fair point.
Once a person commits a crime, should they have privacy, if that privacy inhibits detection, resolution and prosecution of crime?
Often the law appears to favour the perpetrator over the victim
BUT
Flipside, PACE grew out of a miscarriage of justice that occurred in my home London Borough.
BUT
This (DNA) is absolute evidence isn't it? |
DNA (or pretty much anything except a 4k, well focused and lit piece of CCTV footage which you can prove hasn't been altered) is not absolute evidence of anything. Just as miscarriages have been solved by DNA evidence exonerating people, miscarriages can and have occurred through overreliance and overconfidence in DNA evidence. Just because someone's DNA is found at a crime scene, it doesn't mean they were there at the time.
Proof requires corroboration of evidence. Example, if your partner stabbed someone with a kitchen knife from your drawer, your finger prints and DNA will more than likely be on the murder weapon. Is DNA absolute evidence then? I'd guess not.
Also I think it's worth noting that law is not intended to favour the perpetrator, but to protect the innocent and the presumption thereof. It is a side effect that it will help the guilty as well. There is a quote along the lines of "I would rather see 10 guilty men go free then 1 innocent person locked up". It's messy. Everyone wants to favour the victims, but removing protections granted to defendants in the criminal justice system will likely increase the number of miscarriages. |  | | |
| Privacy Vs common good.... on 11:04 - Sep 18 with 865 views | Guthrum |
| Privacy Vs common good.... on 10:04 - Sep 18 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Yeah that's it, the broadness of it and the fact that they're relying on people already on their system.* You're not going to find your exact family tree and the exact locations of where those people were born.
*Begs the question, why would anyone join in the first place? It must've been pretty cr@p at the start. |
On the second bit, just sheer enthusiasm. Genealogy was one of the major drivers of the internet's growth in its early days (along with porn). |  |
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| Privacy Vs common good.... on 11:16 - Sep 18 with 854 views | Guthrum |
| Privacy Vs common good.... on 10:04 - Sep 18 by NthQldITFC |
I must admit I haven't read much on the subject, but I did read somewhere that there have been massive advances in automated processes for decoding big chunks of the genome recently. It's an automation and scale up issue only as far as I can see, with the limits to both disappearing with vast data storage capacity increases and AI-driven processing. Sequencing hardware availability might be the only limiting factor effectively?
A data-hungry commercial enterprise isn't only going to be interested in answering questions about family origins, when there is future revenue from selling that data in my opinion.
So from an admittedly uninformed position on the detail, on general principles alone I think that while it may not be an issue at the moment, it would be very unwise to assume that promises or regulations are going to safeguard the most personal of Personally Identifiable Information which we possess. |
Machine learning and processing power is simplifying things to an extent, but it's still far away from simply pressing a button. Plus those things are expensive to set up.
There has to be an adequate commercial return to make it worth their while (that's a far greater limitation than any formal regulations). It's difficult to see where money can be made from having an individual's genetic sequence - except in a beneficial sense such as offering targeted medical care for otherwise unidentified conditions.
Another aspect is that, despite its increasing popularity, only a tiny proportion of even economically wealthy societies are in the databases. It's a very limited pool of data to use and sell. | |
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| Privacy Vs common good.... on 11:20 - Sep 18 with 843 views | Guthrum |
| Privacy Vs common good.... on 10:45 - Sep 18 by Kievthegreat |
DNA (or pretty much anything except a 4k, well focused and lit piece of CCTV footage which you can prove hasn't been altered) is not absolute evidence of anything. Just as miscarriages have been solved by DNA evidence exonerating people, miscarriages can and have occurred through overreliance and overconfidence in DNA evidence. Just because someone's DNA is found at a crime scene, it doesn't mean they were there at the time.
Proof requires corroboration of evidence. Example, if your partner stabbed someone with a kitchen knife from your drawer, your finger prints and DNA will more than likely be on the murder weapon. Is DNA absolute evidence then? I'd guess not.
Also I think it's worth noting that law is not intended to favour the perpetrator, but to protect the innocent and the presumption thereof. It is a side effect that it will help the guilty as well. There is a quote along the lines of "I would rather see 10 guilty men go free then 1 innocent person locked up". It's messy. Everyone wants to favour the victims, but removing protections granted to defendants in the criminal justice system will likely increase the number of miscarriages. |
Moreover, DNA recovered from a crime scene is rarely complete*. So they are often trying to match with a close probability, rather than exactitude.
* Rapes possibly excepted. | |
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| Privacy Vs common good.... on 11:48 - Sep 18 with 813 views | jaykay |
| Privacy Vs common good.... on 08:11 - Sep 18 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Have you considered someone at this heritage/ancestry place could now commit a crime and plant your DNA at the scene? Good plot for a movie, that!
On a side note, don't want to burst your bubble but I looked into getting one of these tests as a birthday present for my dad, but they're pretty expensive and don't seem all that accurate. The BBC podcast Sliced Bread did an episode on them as well and didn't seem to rate them much. |
i did one and it got my ethnicity spot on. although ive a irish surname but it got my indian and scotish heriitage spot on. plus it got a family link from some on here |  |
| forensic experts say footers and spruces fingerprints were not found at the scene after the weekends rows |
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| Privacy Vs common good.... on 11:49 - Sep 18 with 810 views | Churchman |
| Privacy Vs common good.... on 10:23 - Sep 18 by DJR |
She's a lucky women. |
Scots ancestry? She really isn’t lucky. Something to bury away and hide, I reckon. That or chop a limb off and hope you’ve got rid of the right bit! 😃😀🥲😅😂 |  | | |
| Privacy Vs common good.... on 12:32 - Sep 18 with 777 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Privacy Vs common good.... on 11:48 - Sep 18 by jaykay |
i did one and it got my ethnicity spot on. although ive a irish surname but it got my indian and scotish heriitage spot on. plus it got a family link from some on here |
That isn’t always the case. An American friend was always being told by her grandmother that she was part Native American. She liked this idea but sadly it didn’t show up in her DNA test. Worse she was horrified to be told she had a trace of Neanderthal in her ancestory. |  |
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| Privacy Vs common good.... on 12:42 - Sep 18 with 766 views | Buhrer |
You paid someone to own the most complex personal data you have, forever? What did it buy you?
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| Privacy Vs common good.... on 12:54 - Sep 18 with 734 views | Guthrum |
| Privacy Vs common good.... on 12:42 - Sep 18 by Buhrer |
You paid someone to own the most complex personal data you have, forever? What did it buy you?
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Knowlege unobtainable any other way. In exchange for which, they have data which is of little use for anything practical.
I've hit a dead end in some of my genealogical research, due to a bloke in the mid 18th century forgetting to write something down. My only hope of going back further is to find a genetic match with someone having a common ancestor further back in that lineage. | |
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| Privacy Vs common good.... on 12:57 - Sep 18 with 728 views | Kievthegreat |
| Privacy Vs common good.... on 11:20 - Sep 18 by Guthrum |
Moreover, DNA recovered from a crime scene is rarely complete*. So they are often trying to match with a close probability, rather than exactitude.
* Rapes possibly excepted. |
I was listening to an interesting show on radio 4 during a long drive going into the history of DNA. This actually happened, when during the early days of the technology, they 'matched' a known criminal to DNA found at the scene. However the person had cast iron alibis and was literally hundreds of miles away from the crime.
Essentially they don't test all your DNA (far too much to test), they test snippets determine probabilities and the chance of a person mapping those was something like 1 in 500,000. Well when there are millions of people, you will have multiple matches! | | | |
| Privacy Vs common good.... on 14:15 - Sep 18 with 686 views | Guthrum |
| Privacy Vs common good.... on 12:32 - Sep 18 by Pinewoodblue |
That isn’t always the case. An American friend was always being told by her grandmother that she was part Native American. She liked this idea but sadly it didn’t show up in her DNA test. Worse she was horrified to be told she had a trace of Neanderthal in her ancestory. |
Anybody who is not pure Sub-Saharan African (with no other ancestry) will have a percentage of Neanderthal. | |
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| Privacy Vs common good.... on 16:46 - Sep 18 with 635 views | ElephantintheRoom |
You should be more worried about all the extras they will try and sell you to be screened for diseases you haven’t got or haven’t heard of. |  |
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| Privacy Vs common good.... on 17:49 - Sep 18 with 577 views | MattinLondon |
| Privacy Vs common good.... on 16:46 - Sep 18 by ElephantintheRoom |
You should be more worried about all the extras they will try and sell you to be screened for diseases you haven’t got or haven’t heard of. |
In your case, being a miserable c**t isn’t a disease but more of a personality flaw. |  | | |
| Privacy Vs common good.... on 18:00 - Sep 18 with 561 views | bluelagos |
| Privacy Vs common good.... on 12:42 - Sep 18 by Buhrer |
You paid someone to own the most complex personal data you have, forever? What did it buy you?
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Was a gift - so not quite. But I do think it interesting to understand your roots / heritage - that's what it "buys me" (assuming it is accurate) | |
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| Privacy Vs common good.... on 18:07 - Sep 18 with 544 views | MattinLondon |
| Privacy Vs common good.... on 18:00 - Sep 18 by bluelagos |
Was a gift - so not quite. But I do think it interesting to understand your roots / heritage - that's what it "buys me" (assuming it is accurate) |
How long does it take for the results to get back to you? | | | |
| Privacy Vs common good.... on 18:12 - Sep 18 with 537 views | bluelagos |
| Privacy Vs common good.... on 18:07 - Sep 18 by MattinLondon |
How long does it take for the results to get back to you? |
Only posted it last night - goes to Ireland I think so probably a couple of weeks. | |
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