| Devastating floods in Valencia yesterday on 11:20 - Oct 30 with 3300 views | DJR |
Absolutely shocking with 51 deaths so far.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/oct/30/spain-floods-torrential-rain-death
It's supposed to the due to a thing known as the gota fria (or cold drop) but this normally happens in September, so very late this year.
As it is, I know the southern end of the Valencia region, and it is undoubtedly the case that extreme temperatures have risen in recent years, and periods of drought have extended, so severe storms are probably all tied up with this. [Post edited 30 Oct 2024 11:27]
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| Devastating floods in Valencia yesterday on 11:45 - Oct 30 with 3236 views | BarcaBlue |
| Devastating floods in Valencia yesterday on 11:20 - Oct 30 by DJR |
Absolutely shocking with 51 deaths so far.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/oct/30/spain-floods-torrential-rain-death
It's supposed to the due to a thing known as the gota fria (or cold drop) but this normally happens in September, so very late this year.
As it is, I know the southern end of the Valencia region, and it is undoubtedly the case that extreme temperatures have risen in recent years, and periods of drought have extended, so severe storms are probably all tied up with this. [Post edited 30 Oct 2024 11:27]
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Climate change is making these "gotas frias" more extreme but there have been other explanations, mainly from the far right...
The Socialists have been dismantling dams built during the Franco era
The Socialist Prime Minister is aloof as he is in India on a State visit and his corrupt wife is with him.
There was no warning from meteorologists and the weather radars weren't working around Valencia
... the problem is many towns were built up around small river valleys or run-offs called ramblas or rieras. Drainage systems can't cope and weren't designed for climate change. This has been known about for decades, 30 years ago I was living in a village where an old guy was swept away crossing a road and around 20 cars were washed 2km down a "dry" river bed into the Med. 200 litres of rain fell in an hour, yesterday in the Valencia area it was well over 300 litres.
The DANA or gota fria was predicted well in advance but the exact location moved about a bit. I don't think the severity was quite expected but the general area and possibility of serious flooding was certainly apparent at the beginning of the week. So tragic that 50 + people have lost their lives. |  | | |
| Devastating floods in Valencia yesterday on 11:54 - Oct 30 with 3173 views | ElephantintheRoom |
| Devastating floods in Valencia yesterday on 11:45 - Oct 30 by BarcaBlue |
Climate change is making these "gotas frias" more extreme but there have been other explanations, mainly from the far right...
The Socialists have been dismantling dams built during the Franco era
The Socialist Prime Minister is aloof as he is in India on a State visit and his corrupt wife is with him.
There was no warning from meteorologists and the weather radars weren't working around Valencia
... the problem is many towns were built up around small river valleys or run-offs called ramblas or rieras. Drainage systems can't cope and weren't designed for climate change. This has been known about for decades, 30 years ago I was living in a village where an old guy was swept away crossing a road and around 20 cars were washed 2km down a "dry" river bed into the Med. 200 litres of rain fell in an hour, yesterday in the Valencia area it was well over 300 litres.
The DANA or gota fria was predicted well in advance but the exact location moved about a bit. I don't think the severity was quite expected but the general area and possibility of serious flooding was certainly apparent at the beginning of the week. So tragic that 50 + people have lost their lives. |
The worst floods since 1996 - long before global warming was reinvented as climate change
It’s almost as though extremes in weather happen from time to time. - and are more severe in countries where seasonal weather seems a bit severe to those living in more temperate countries |  |
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| Devastating floods in Valencia yesterday on 11:55 - Oct 30 with 3179 views | ElderGrizzly |
| Devastating floods in Valencia yesterday on 11:45 - Oct 30 by BarcaBlue |
Climate change is making these "gotas frias" more extreme but there have been other explanations, mainly from the far right...
The Socialists have been dismantling dams built during the Franco era
The Socialist Prime Minister is aloof as he is in India on a State visit and his corrupt wife is with him.
There was no warning from meteorologists and the weather radars weren't working around Valencia
... the problem is many towns were built up around small river valleys or run-offs called ramblas or rieras. Drainage systems can't cope and weren't designed for climate change. This has been known about for decades, 30 years ago I was living in a village where an old guy was swept away crossing a road and around 20 cars were washed 2km down a "dry" river bed into the Med. 200 litres of rain fell in an hour, yesterday in the Valencia area it was well over 300 litres.
The DANA or gota fria was predicted well in advance but the exact location moved about a bit. I don't think the severity was quite expected but the general area and possibility of serious flooding was certainly apparent at the beginning of the week. So tragic that 50 + people have lost their lives. |
The news coverage is also very different (from an outsider anyway) compared to the wall to wall coverage of hurricanes in the US earlier this month.
There is always an explanation from the far right... |  | | |
| Devastating floods in Valencia yesterday on 11:55 - Oct 30 with 3176 views | BarcaBlue |
| Devastating floods in Valencia yesterday on 11:54 - Oct 30 by ElephantintheRoom |
The worst floods since 1996 - long before global warming was reinvented as climate change
It’s almost as though extremes in weather happen from time to time. - and are more severe in countries where seasonal weather seems a bit severe to those living in more temperate countries |
Pr1ck! | | | |
| Devastating floods in Valencia yesterday on 12:08 - Oct 30 with 3133 views | Illinoisblue |
| Devastating floods in Valencia yesterday on 11:55 - Oct 30 by ElderGrizzly |
The news coverage is also very different (from an outsider anyway) compared to the wall to wall coverage of hurricanes in the US earlier this month.
There is always an explanation from the far right... |
Wasn’t it dark Biden creating the hurricanes to punish republican states? |  |
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| Devastating floods in Valencia yesterday on 12:26 - Oct 30 with 3050 views | NthQldITFC |
| Devastating floods in Valencia yesterday on 11:55 - Oct 30 by BarcaBlue |
Pr1ck! |
I've taken a gamble and upvoted your comment without being able to see the cause of it.
To be honest, I feel like I'm on very firm ground. |  |
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| Devastating floods in Valencia yesterday on 12:39 - Oct 30 with 2992 views | CoachRob |
| Devastating floods in Valencia yesterday on 11:45 - Oct 30 by BarcaBlue |
Climate change is making these "gotas frias" more extreme but there have been other explanations, mainly from the far right...
The Socialists have been dismantling dams built during the Franco era
The Socialist Prime Minister is aloof as he is in India on a State visit and his corrupt wife is with him.
There was no warning from meteorologists and the weather radars weren't working around Valencia
... the problem is many towns were built up around small river valleys or run-offs called ramblas or rieras. Drainage systems can't cope and weren't designed for climate change. This has been known about for decades, 30 years ago I was living in a village where an old guy was swept away crossing a road and around 20 cars were washed 2km down a "dry" river bed into the Med. 200 litres of rain fell in an hour, yesterday in the Valencia area it was well over 300 litres.
The DANA or gota fria was predicted well in advance but the exact location moved about a bit. I don't think the severity was quite expected but the general area and possibility of serious flooding was certainly apparent at the beginning of the week. So tragic that 50 + people have lost their lives. |
The excuses are becoming more and more ridiculous from those who want to take an anti-science stance and I don't think this is exclusively the far right that take such a position.
That is a nice explanation of how these towns evolved over time and why climate change is becoming such a problem as we force the hydrological cycle to greater extremes.
The rainfall values are per square metre so people would have had little time to react if they hadn't already taken some preventive action from the forecasts we got at the weekend. Despite the forecasts we have significant loss of life and as you eluded to we could look at hard infrastructure solutions, but these come with drawbacks. I hope all the people affected in that region get all the support they need. |  | | |
| Devastating floods in Valencia yesterday on 12:49 - Oct 30 with 2948 views | BarcaBlue |
| Devastating floods in Valencia yesterday on 12:39 - Oct 30 by CoachRob |
The excuses are becoming more and more ridiculous from those who want to take an anti-science stance and I don't think this is exclusively the far right that take such a position.
That is a nice explanation of how these towns evolved over time and why climate change is becoming such a problem as we force the hydrological cycle to greater extremes.
The rainfall values are per square metre so people would have had little time to react if they hadn't already taken some preventive action from the forecasts we got at the weekend. Despite the forecasts we have significant loss of life and as you eluded to we could look at hard infrastructure solutions, but these come with drawbacks. I hope all the people affected in that region get all the support they need. |
Unfortunately many people who died were trapped in cars and swept away, many of those will have been moving their cars from areas that were of a known flood risk.
Over 60 reported dead now and that Elephant knob posts his edgy nonsense that weather happens. | | | |
| Devastating floods in Valencia yesterday on 13:00 - Oct 30 with 2914 views | stonojnr |
| Devastating floods in Valencia yesterday on 11:55 - Oct 30 by ElderGrizzly |
The news coverage is also very different (from an outsider anyway) compared to the wall to wall coverage of hurricanes in the US earlier this month.
There is always an explanation from the far right... |
in the US there are entire channels devoted to weather coverage, there are probably hundreds of youtubers who chase storms, its very easy to get coverage in that environment.
in Spain, unless it super extreme and lots of people sadly get killed as happened this time, its just "the weather".
I was on holiday in Spain, nearly 20 years ago now, and it was October too so dont give me this is unprecedented late stuff, when one of these weather events happened, and Ive never seen or experienced rain like it or since, it was insane, the place we stayed in got hit by lightning, all the roads were flooded for days afterwards, they turned into very fast flowing rivers, as most holiday lets end up built on hills. so it was just dangerous to go outside.
you just had to sit and watch as half your pool furniture floated away and hope the water level didnt rise above the doorsteps.
lasted about 36hrs iirc, but when it finished we were able to get to the beach front of the town, and it was absolutely wrecked, there were yachts and boats from the harbour smashed to pieces on the beach. Every bar and shop along the promenade was flooded, and had every glass window, door broken., you walking over broken glass and avoiding bits of palm trees and rubble, everywhere was still open though.
but it was exactly as youd expect a place to look after a hurricane or tornado had passed through.
fortunately I dont believe anyone was killed, but Id be amazed if there werent injuries, but there was not a single news report that covered it outside of Spain, not even sure it was covered in Spain, but defintely outside of Spain it wasnt reported as we'd all been texting our families back home not to worry if they saw us on the 6o clock news or anything and they hadnt got a clue what we were talking about.
we got speaking to some ex-pats about it later at the local bar and saying how amazed we were it was being treated as just like run of the mill and they said yeah it happens every year, some years are bad, some are very bad, but they just get on with it, hope people stay safe, and clean it up after | | | |
| Devastating floods in Valencia yesterday on 13:08 - Oct 30 with 2889 views | BarcaBlue |
| Devastating floods in Valencia yesterday on 13:00 - Oct 30 by stonojnr |
in the US there are entire channels devoted to weather coverage, there are probably hundreds of youtubers who chase storms, its very easy to get coverage in that environment.
in Spain, unless it super extreme and lots of people sadly get killed as happened this time, its just "the weather".
I was on holiday in Spain, nearly 20 years ago now, and it was October too so dont give me this is unprecedented late stuff, when one of these weather events happened, and Ive never seen or experienced rain like it or since, it was insane, the place we stayed in got hit by lightning, all the roads were flooded for days afterwards, they turned into very fast flowing rivers, as most holiday lets end up built on hills. so it was just dangerous to go outside.
you just had to sit and watch as half your pool furniture floated away and hope the water level didnt rise above the doorsteps.
lasted about 36hrs iirc, but when it finished we were able to get to the beach front of the town, and it was absolutely wrecked, there were yachts and boats from the harbour smashed to pieces on the beach. Every bar and shop along the promenade was flooded, and had every glass window, door broken., you walking over broken glass and avoiding bits of palm trees and rubble, everywhere was still open though.
but it was exactly as youd expect a place to look after a hurricane or tornado had passed through.
fortunately I dont believe anyone was killed, but Id be amazed if there werent injuries, but there was not a single news report that covered it outside of Spain, not even sure it was covered in Spain, but defintely outside of Spain it wasnt reported as we'd all been texting our families back home not to worry if they saw us on the 6o clock news or anything and they hadnt got a clue what we were talking about.
we got speaking to some ex-pats about it later at the local bar and saying how amazed we were it was being treated as just like run of the mill and they said yeah it happens every year, some years are bad, some are very bad, but they just get on with it, hope people stay safe, and clean it up after |
... and your point is? You were on holiday and it rained a lot and people said it rained a lot every year but 60 or more people didn't lose their lives but it's just weather anyway? | | | |
| Devastating floods in Valencia yesterday on 15:01 - Oct 30 with 2767 views | Illinoisblue |
You’re a political junkie, Grizzers, what’s your prediction? Harris to win somewhat easily? | |
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| Devastating floods in Valencia yesterday on 15:24 - Oct 30 with 2749 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Devastating floods in Valencia yesterday on 15:01 - Oct 30 by Illinoisblue |
You’re a political junkie, Grizzers, what’s your prediction? Harris to win somewhat easily? |
If he says Harris will win then pout your mortgage on a Trump landslide. Grizzers predicted Trump would be out by Christmas every year of his Presidency. |  |
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| Devastating floods in Valencia yesterday on 16:35 - Oct 30 with 2672 views | DJR |
| Devastating floods in Valencia yesterday on 11:45 - Oct 30 by BarcaBlue |
Climate change is making these "gotas frias" more extreme but there have been other explanations, mainly from the far right...
The Socialists have been dismantling dams built during the Franco era
The Socialist Prime Minister is aloof as he is in India on a State visit and his corrupt wife is with him.
There was no warning from meteorologists and the weather radars weren't working around Valencia
... the problem is many towns were built up around small river valleys or run-offs called ramblas or rieras. Drainage systems can't cope and weren't designed for climate change. This has been known about for decades, 30 years ago I was living in a village where an old guy was swept away crossing a road and around 20 cars were washed 2km down a "dry" river bed into the Med. 200 litres of rain fell in an hour, yesterday in the Valencia area it was well over 300 litres.
The DANA or gota fria was predicted well in advance but the exact location moved about a bit. I don't think the severity was quite expected but the general area and possibility of serious flooding was certainly apparent at the beginning of the week. So tragic that 50 + people have lost their lives. |
I arrived in the southern part of the Costa Blanca in September 2019 a couple of days after what was described in El Pais as the worst storm to hit eastern Spain for 140 years.
https://english.elpais.com/elpais/2019/09/16/inenglish/1568618372_639259.html
https://english.elpais.com/elpais/2019/09/17/inenglish/1568707899_683506.html
Fortunately, the area is fairly flat so there was not a great deal of loss of life, but the Segura river, surrounded by hundreds of thousands of hectares of agricultural land, ended up as a lagoon stretching for miles in all directions, which brought out the mosquitoes. And the city of Orihuela was cut off for four days.
To have another, even more devastating gota fria so soon after does suggest there is something going on with the climate. [Post edited 30 Oct 2024 16:40]
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| Devastating floods in Valencia yesterday on 17:09 - Oct 30 with 2612 views | ElderGrizzly |
| Devastating floods in Valencia yesterday on 15:24 - Oct 30 by GlasgowBlue |
If he says Harris will win then pout your mortgage on a Trump landslide. Grizzers predicted Trump would be out by Christmas every year of his Presidency. |
Ha.
If you watch some of the documentaries that have been made since, a lot of his own cabinet thought he wouldn't last the year :p
I was working within that whole area for 7 years and spent too much time in DC and no-one could know from one week to the next.
But to answer Illy's question, I genuinely have no idea. The country is broken and the only hope is there are a lot of shy democrats out there.
Anyway, this was about Valencia which I appreciate is 'orange', but not that Orange one [Post edited 30 Oct 2024 17:12]
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| Devastating floods in Valencia yesterday on 17:59 - Oct 30 with 2507 views | BarcaBlue |
| Devastating floods in Valencia yesterday on 16:35 - Oct 30 by DJR |
I arrived in the southern part of the Costa Blanca in September 2019 a couple of days after what was described in El Pais as the worst storm to hit eastern Spain for 140 years.
https://english.elpais.com/elpais/2019/09/16/inenglish/1568618372_639259.html
https://english.elpais.com/elpais/2019/09/17/inenglish/1568707899_683506.html
Fortunately, the area is fairly flat so there was not a great deal of loss of life, but the Segura river, surrounded by hundreds of thousands of hectares of agricultural land, ended up as a lagoon stretching for miles in all directions, which brought out the mosquitoes. And the city of Orihuela was cut off for four days.
To have another, even more devastating gota fria so soon after does suggest there is something going on with the climate. [Post edited 30 Oct 2024 16:40]
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I think they are becoming more violent, as well as possibly more frequent. Yesterday there were tornadoes and the rain fell in a relatively small area. It hardly rained in the city of Valencia but 30km up in the hills the flow of water coming down was the equivalent of 6 River Ebros in one of the dry rivers. If you've seen the Ebro in the south of Catalonia that's an unbelievable amount of water.
Latest is 73 confirmed deaths and many still missing. | | | |
| Devastating floods in Valencia yesterday on 18:29 - Oct 30 with 2458 views | BarcaBlue |
95 confirmed deaths now reported. | | | |
| Devastating floods in Valencia yesterday on 19:22 - Oct 30 with 2404 views | BarcaBlue |
| Devastating floods in Valencia yesterday on 12:49 - Oct 30 by BarcaBlue |
Unfortunately many people who died were trapped in cars and swept away, many of those will have been moving their cars from areas that were of a known flood risk.
Over 60 reported dead now and that Elephant knob posts his edgy nonsense that weather happens. |
In Spain there's an emergency sms service that covers all mobile users, it's not opt-in. Last year we had a test, the mobile gives off a high pitched alert and there's an sms sent.
Yesterday at 8am the Spanish weather centre put out a red warning of torrential rain for the north of Valencia. At 8.10 pm yesterday evening the emergency sms alert was put out when it had been raining all afternoon and the dry river beds were already overflowing and villages were already flooded. Seems from mobile footage people were out in waist deep water trying to get to their cars to move them.
I don't understand why they have this shiny new alert system if the authorites fail to use it, and when they do it potentially added to the death toll. It's just so tragic. | | | |
| Devastating floods in Valencia yesterday on 20:56 - Oct 30 with 2314 views | NthQldITFC |
| Devastating floods in Valencia yesterday on 17:59 - Oct 30 by BarcaBlue |
I think they are becoming more violent, as well as possibly more frequent. Yesterday there were tornadoes and the rain fell in a relatively small area. It hardly rained in the city of Valencia but 30km up in the hills the flow of water coming down was the equivalent of 6 River Ebros in one of the dry rivers. If you've seen the Ebro in the south of Catalonia that's an unbelievable amount of water.
Latest is 73 confirmed deaths and many still missing. |
That's certainly what climate models strongly suggest will happen. Actually, no, is happening. And still there are fools (standing for election or just spouting drivel on the Internet) who don't or won't accept it.
Planet-wide, we do next to nothing to save ourselves. Utter madness. | |
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| Devastating floods in Valencia yesterday on 21:51 - Oct 30 with 2247 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Devastating floods in Valencia yesterday on 11:54 - Oct 30 by ElephantintheRoom |
The worst floods since 1996 - long before global warming was reinvented as climate change
It’s almost as though extremes in weather happen from time to time. - and are more severe in countries where seasonal weather seems a bit severe to those living in more temperate countries |
Global warming was never reinvented as anything.
Climate change is the result of Global Warming.
Global Warming is the proven trend for the average temperature across the planet to rise year-on-year and is data-driven and indisputable.
Climate Change is the known impact of Global Warming. It is where the normally-reliable climate patterns that are expected start to change. It is evidenced in increasingly unpredictable weather events in regions where they are not prepared for them.
Glad to be of help. |  |
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| Devastating floods in Valencia yesterday on 22:07 - Oct 30 with 2228 views | ArnoldMoorhen |
| Devastating floods in Valencia yesterday on 11:54 - Oct 30 by ElephantintheRoom |
The worst floods since 1996 - long before global warming was reinvented as climate change
It’s almost as though extremes in weather happen from time to time. - and are more severe in countries where seasonal weather seems a bit severe to those living in more temperate countries |
Even by your standards of needing to be contrarian about everything, this is spectacularly low.
It takes a special type of person to try and score pedantic points when scores of people have died.
And by "special type of person", I obviously mean "c***". | | | |
| Devastating floods in Valencia yesterday on 22:07 - Oct 30 with 2224 views | tcblue |
| Devastating floods in Valencia yesterday on 21:51 - Oct 30 by Nthsuffolkblue |
Global warming was never reinvented as anything.
Climate change is the result of Global Warming.
Global Warming is the proven trend for the average temperature across the planet to rise year-on-year and is data-driven and indisputable.
Climate Change is the known impact of Global Warming. It is where the normally-reliable climate patterns that are expected start to change. It is evidenced in increasingly unpredictable weather events in regions where they are not prepared for them.
Glad to be of help. |
But when he gets out of the bath he still feels cold, checkmate, global warning is a myth | | | |
| Devastating floods in Valencia yesterday on 07:31 - Oct 31 with 2054 views | CoachRob |
| Devastating floods in Valencia yesterday on 12:49 - Oct 30 by BarcaBlue |
Unfortunately many people who died were trapped in cars and swept away, many of those will have been moving their cars from areas that were of a known flood risk.
Over 60 reported dead now and that Elephant knob posts his edgy nonsense that weather happens. |
I've come across some strange interpretations of climate science on this site and that poster is more concerned with the wording, not the consequences of climate change.
There needs to be an inquiry into what happened. We need to get better at the type of communication we give the public, and undoubtedly, we the scientific community can give more specific hazard information, but we rely on humanities and social sciences on how to convey that information. We just have to get better at these events as sadly they will increase in frequency and intensity.
Here in the UK cuts to an already stretched environment agency and over reliance on tech solutions show us politicians still don't understand the severity of the crisis we are facing. It is worth having a look at the budget breakdown for the Department of the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs to see;
1. How little is changing
2. Flood defence spending is being reviewed to assess affordability | | | |
| Devastating floods in Valencia yesterday on 10:23 - Oct 31 with 1920 views | DJR |
| Devastating floods in Valencia yesterday on 19:22 - Oct 30 by BarcaBlue |
In Spain there's an emergency sms service that covers all mobile users, it's not opt-in. Last year we had a test, the mobile gives off a high pitched alert and there's an sms sent.
Yesterday at 8am the Spanish weather centre put out a red warning of torrential rain for the north of Valencia. At 8.10 pm yesterday evening the emergency sms alert was put out when it had been raining all afternoon and the dry river beds were already overflowing and villages were already flooded. Seems from mobile footage people were out in waist deep water trying to get to their cars to move them.
I don't understand why they have this shiny new alert system if the authorites fail to use it, and when they do it potentially added to the death toll. It's just so tragic. |
The following from the Guardian echoes what you say.
As Spain grappled with the fallout of the disaster, questions were being asked over why it had taken until after 8pm for the civil protection service to issue an alert urging residents not to leave home.
The national weather agency, Aemet, launched a red alert for the Valencia region on Tuesday morning and conditions deteriorated throughout the day. But it was only in the early evening that the regional body in charge of coordinating the emergency services was set up.
For many, it was already too late. The alert came as some were already trapped on roads and left at the mercy of raging torrents of water.
“They raised the alarm when the water was already here, there’s no need to tell me the flood is coming,”said Julian Ormeno, a 66-year-old in the Valencia city suburb of Sedavi.
“Nobody came to take responsibility,” he told AFP.
Another man told news site Eldiario.es that he had been trapped in his car with water up to his chest when the alert arrived. “Just after 8pm, when I had already spent an hour in water up to my neck and swallowing mud, the alert from the civil protection service sounded,” he said.
With weather forecasters issuing warnings beforehand, such tragedies are “entirely avoidable” if people can be kept away from surging flood water, said Hannah Cloke, hydrology professor at the University of Reading.
The devastating outcome suggests Valencia’s warning system failed, she said. “People just don’t know what to do when faced with a flood, or when they hear warnings.”
“People shouldn’t be dying from these kinds of forecasted weather events in countries where they have the resources to do better,” added Liz Stephens, a professor in climate risks and resilience at the University of Reading in the UK. | | | |
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