Forum | VAR Reform | What's changed since the vote?! by Bellevue_Blue

Forum index | Previous Thread | Next thread

VAR Reform | What's changed since the vote?! 21:19 - Nov 3 with 3367 views

What's changed since the summer vote where the PL said it was going to be a far improved product?

It's exactly the same inconsistent product, with no helpful communication, conflicting guidelines and people that have no idea how to actually improve the product.

It's not improving because the structure in which it's being used is entirely wrong and clubs are still suffering incorrect match changing decisions. It's almost as if they've tried to speed the process up to the point where we may as well not have the tech.

The ref has not given a penalty and shortly after issued a second yellow card. Two huge decisions that have allowed the game to swing entirely in one teams favour.

Yet the referee has not be given the opportunity to look at either decision again!! Why would you not use the technology to confirm that what you've seen is correct?! Why are we allowing someone behind a screen with no context of the game and little context of the decision making process to make the final call!

The way in which it's being used is harming the referee's more than it's actually helping them and that's why every single week we see awful decisions despite the tech and despite everything that was promised in the summer.

VAR Reform | What's changed since the vote?! on 21:56 - Nov 3 with 3254 views

PioneerBlue

Agreed. It’s poor and ruining the fan experience.

Blog:

Ipswich Ramblings

VAR Reform | What's changed since the vote?! on 22:31 - Nov 3 with 3194 views

Basuco

VAR Reform \| What's changed since the vote?! on 21:56 - Nov 3 by PioneerBlue
Agreed. It’s poor and ruining the fan experience.

The main question is, why do two Premier League referee's who have the benefit of watching an incident repeatedly in slow motion from many angles, still manage to make so many incorrect decisions? And then take ages to make that incorrect decision, and if they see an incorrect decision has been made on the pitch, they do nothing to correct it. It is not a fault with "VAR", it is referee's who do not appear to know the rules of the game.
Town had to install 46 camera points for VAR, every Premier League ground has 46 camera's recording the game, so not having a clear view of an incident is not a reason for the many errors.

VAR Reform | What's changed since the vote?! on 23:11 - Nov 3 with 3119 views

Garv

VAR Reform | What's changed since the vote?! on 22:31 - Nov 3 by Basuco

You're talking about correct and incorrect when most of the decisions are subjective, meaning we're always going to have this argument. The game also isn't played in slow motion.

All VAR does is cloud judgement and encourage rewatching things over and over in slow motion until you find a reason to see it the other way to the original decision.

Poll:

Pick a goal to win the derby in stoppage time...

VAR Reform | What's changed since the vote?! on 02:01 - Nov 4 with 3024 views

melbs_itfc

VAR Reform \| What's changed since the vote?! on 23:11 - Nov 3 by Garv
You're talking about correct and incorrect when most of the decisions are subjective, meaning we're always going to have this argument. The game also isn't played in slow motion. All VAR does is cloud judgement and encourage rewatching things over and over in slow motion until you find a reason to see it the other way to the original decision.

In my opinion, the most essential reform that needs to be made is to have completely independent specialist VAR teams that are NOT premier league referees. VAR and PL referees need to be totally separate entities. This is the only way to ensure full transparency when VAR decisions are being made in the moment. Especially with all the pressure that entails. Unfortunately, with the current set up there is clearly a conflict of interest with the referees one week being VAR and the next on field referees. They all know each other, with obviously some stronger personalties within the group than others. So It is only human nature that there would be an unconscious bias at times, which we have already had confirmed by Mike Dean in this article on the BBC. Surely it is a no brainer.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/66612570

VAR Reform | What's changed since the vote?! on 05:08 - Nov 4 with 2922 views

Olcol

VAR Reform | What's changed since the vote?! on 02:01 - Nov 4 by melbs_itfc

That's a shocking revelation. He admitted to changing the game because he didn't want to put his mate in a tough spot! They are supposed to be professionals and are paid accordingly, to uphold the laws of the game. VAR just gives these people power they do not know how to use in a fair and just way. I have absolutely zero confidence in VAR and believe it is riddled with corruption and deceit.

VAR Reform | What's changed since the vote?! on 05:19 - Nov 4 with 2911 views

Olcol

VAR Reform \| What's changed since the vote?! on 05:08 - Nov 4 by Olcol
That's a shocking revelation. He admitted to changing the game because he didn't want to put his mate in a tough spot! They are supposed to be professionals and are paid accordingly, to uphold the laws of the game. VAR just gives these people power they do not know how to use in a fair and just way. I have absolutely zero confidence in VAR and believe it is riddled with corruption and deceit.

To add insult to injury. Town have spent bucket loads of cash to install 40 odd extra cameras so that we can be screwed over by Var!

VAR Reform | What's changed since the vote?! on 07:57 - Nov 4 with 2785 views

Bellevue_Blue

VAR Reform \| What's changed since the vote?! on 23:11 - Nov 3 by Garv
You're talking about correct and incorrect when most of the decisions are subjective, meaning we're always going to have this argument. The game also isn't played in slow motion. All VAR does is cloud judgement and encourage rewatching things over and over in slow motion until you find a reason to see it the other way to the original decision.

I agree which is why Football more than any other sport should be pushing the ref to confirm their decision with tech.

Unless it is an absolute howler the VAR is just going to stay with the on field decision.

In a game of Football there are not many 'clear and obvious' errors and the result is that the errors that just sit underneath are still happening despite the 46 cameras.

Anyone with eyes can see that's a penalty and the only person who hasn't had the benefit of watching the replay is the ref.

If they want to watch and say it's still not a penalty I can deal with that! They're then just a terrible ref. The process is unkind to them.

VAR Reform | What's changed since the vote?! on 09:04 - Nov 4 with 2689 views

Radlett_blue

VAR is not allowed to overturn yellow cards so it couldn't change the decision to give Phillips a 2nd yellow. It might not have overturned it as at normal speed, it looked bad. Are you saying you want VAR to look at every yellow card? Then add a few more minutes to each half.

Poll:

Should horse racing be banned in the UK?

VAR Reform | What's changed since the vote?! on 09:17 - Nov 4 with 2651 views

Bellevue_Blue

VAR Reform \| What's changed since the vote?! on 09:04 - Nov 4 by Radlett_blue
VAR is not allowed to overturn yellow cards so it couldn't change the decision to give Phillips a 2nd yellow. It might not have overturned it as at normal speed, it looked bad. Are you saying you want VAR to look at every yellow card? Then add a few more minutes to each half.

No not at all ... I'm saying if you are given a second yellow card it should be reviewable as the consequence is the same on the game as a red.

Clear and obvious errors are still being made to send people off. Clarke definitely would not have been off and I think if the ref saw the Phillips one again he would rescind that.

We have 46 cameras in every PL stadium, lets start using them to get to correct decisions.

VAR Reform | What's changed since the vote?! on 09:32 - Nov 4 with 2609 views

Kev_W

The VAR technology works, unfortunately it is not being used with sufficient clarity or consistency and by officials who appear not be sufficiently trained. It is actually in the interests of PL and PGMOL to sort this out. VAR is deeply unpopular with supporters although maybe less so with those involved in betting and supporters outside the PL.

It does need a push from clubs and supporters to make sufficient change to the operation of VAR to remove it as an issue. It is damaging PL football. A few bad decisions over a season are part of the game but adding an extra layer via poor use of VAR wrecks a game.

VAR Reform | What's changed since the vote?! on 09:41 - Nov 4 with 2576 views

Jon_456

VAR Reform | What's changed since the vote?! on 09:32 - Nov 4 by Kev_W

I still don’t understand why we don’t follow other sports by giving the teams a number of reviews each. Cuts out the need for VAR officials to look out for their mates.

VAR Reform | What's changed since the vote?! on 10:21 - Nov 4 with 2526 views

Bellevue_Blue

VAR Reform \| What's changed since the vote?! on 09:41 - Nov 4 by Jon_456
I still don’t understand why we don’t follow other sports by giving the teams a number of reviews each. Cuts out the need for VAR officials to look out for their mates.

This would help them no end.

You take the emphasis off the officials, place it on the teams and you actually look at marginal decisions as opposed to automatically agreeing with the on field decision.

For too long I think that those that govern have decided that Football is superior and we don't need to fall in line with what other sports are doing.

Every week those at the top of the game look more and more inept.

VAR Reform | What's changed since the vote?! on 10:22 - Nov 4 with 2525 views

badadski

VAR Reform \| What's changed since the vote?! on 09:41 - Nov 4 by Jon_456
I still don’t understand why we don’t follow other sports by giving the teams a number of reviews each. Cuts out the need for VAR officials to look out for their mates.

If VAR isn’t going to eliminate errors then it is pointless in having it and if they vote again to keep it or get rid, I know where it is going next season - in the bin where it belongs. Probably too late for us but it’s an absolute joke currently and isn’t doing what it was implemented for. Based on that I would also be looking to sue to FA for all of the wasted money spent on it as I am sure within the terms issued and legal documents drafted for its purpose it must have stated it is their to assist to remove errors and wrong decisions from the game which it certainly is not doing.

VAR Reform | What's changed since the vote?! on 21:09 - Nov 5 with 2305 views

Garv

VAR Reform \| What's changed since the vote?! on 09:41 - Nov 4 by Jon_456
I still don’t understand why we don’t follow other sports by giving the teams a number of reviews each. Cuts out the need for VAR officials to look out for their mates.

Terrible terrible idea.

So it will happen.

Poll:

Pick a goal to win the derby in stoppage time...

-1

VAR Reform | What's changed since the vote?! on 21:25 - Nov 5 with 2266 views

Olcol

VAR Reform | What's changed since the vote?! on 10:22 - Nov 4 by badadski

VAR has got worse than last year, so many conflicting statements and goal post moves. I am sure the refs can't keep up, because they run around like fools booking someone for nothing then letting clear fouls go. VAR itself is a secondary level which has a whole new level of confusion. It should be scrapped or run independently.

VAR Reform | What's changed since the vote?! on 21:30 - Nov 5 with 2253 views

bournemouthblue

A big question for the FA, has to be why their UEFA colleagues seem to do it so much better?

It was pretty noticeable at the Euros where FA teams were in charge and they took significantly longer when making decisions

	Alcohol is the answer but I can't remember the question!
Poll:	How much for Omari

VAR Reform | What's changed since the vote?! on 13:54 - Nov 6 with 2107 views

Vaughan8

VAR seems to be a bigger problem here in England. I watch CL/Europa games and some foreign league games and there is very rarely a "clear" error.

Maybe I've forgotten some, but I don't think there was much in the Euros in the summer too?

If there are errors, its definitely not as much as in England. Is it the ref/users of it?

VAR Reform | What's changed since the vote?! on 14:50 - Nov 6 with 2071 views

Radlett_blue

VAR Reform | What's changed since the vote?! on 09:17 - Nov 4 by Bellevue_Blue

You seem to be saying you want MORE VAR reviews, when the process is so flawed. The real problem is that there is no consistency of procedure, so all it has done is add 2 more levels of subjectivity to what is already a highly subjective process as most dubious decisions are down to a referee's interpretation. As that is the case, it shouldn't keep getting involved & replacing one subjective decision with another one.

Poll:

Should horse racing be banned in the UK?

VAR Reform | What's changed since the vote?! on 15:21 - Nov 6 with 2045 views

Blue_Order

VAR Reform | What's changed since the vote?! on 17:06 - Nov 6 with 1961 views

bluejacko

It won’t change while you have a ref who is var one week and on pitch the next! He is still prone to the same mistakes from one week to the next.

VAR Reform | What's changed since the vote?! on 20:04 - Nov 6 with 1861 views

ibbleobble

I know the answer to this: its got worse

VAR Reform | What's changed since the vote?! on 09:07 - Nov 7 with 1643 views

ElephantintheRoom

A subjective decision made by people who understand the laws of the game will always seem wrong to biased people - especially when they don’t understand or wilfully ignore the laws of the game.

Blog:

The Swinging Sixty

VAR Reform | What's changed since the vote?! on 09:30 - Nov 7 with 1607 views

Edmundo

VAR Reform \| What's changed since the vote?! on 09:07 - Nov 7 by ElephantintheRoom
A subjective decision made by people who understand the laws of the game will always seem wrong to biased people - especially when they don’t understand or wilfully ignore the laws of the game.

Maybe PGMOL need to stop thinking they're the best in the world and start learning from other leagues and sports

Poll:	Should we go for it in the January transfer window?
Blog:	Blue Sky Thinking

Forum index | Previous Thread | Next thread