| Sounds like it's massively kicked off a the NATO meeting 11:25 - Jul 12 with 2560 views | StokieBlue |
Trump has apparently told the wealthiest countries in NATO to meet 2% spending by January 2019 or the US will be going it alone.
Just another reason why Brexit is a bad idea, even without NATO a proper EU army would be good enough.
SB
Edit: Sounds like he's "won" if his spin is anything to go by. Now announcing 33bn increase in NATO spending by non-US nations.
[Post edited 12 Jul 2018 11:27]
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| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Sounds like it's massively kicked off a the NATO meeting on 11:27 - Jul 12 with 1582 views | Archer4721 |
Yeah but he's "best friends" with Boris Johnson so it's ok. |  | | |
| Sounds like it's massively kicked off a the NATO meeting on 11:27 - Jul 12 with 1571 views | StokieBlue |
| Sounds like it's massively kicked off a the NATO meeting on 11:27 - Jul 12 by Archer4721 |
Yeah but he's "best friends" with Boris Johnson so it's ok. |
Both total tools.
SB [Post edited 12 Jul 2018 11:28]
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| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Sounds like it's massively kicked off a the NATO meeting on 11:28 - Jul 12 with 1570 views | chicoazul |
It is an absolute piss take that one of the richest industrial nations on Earth in Germany doesnt meet its' commitment to NATO. NATO is a piss take in itself of course. |  |
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| Sounds like it's massively kicked off a the NATO meeting on 11:29 - Jul 12 with 1561 views | Guthrum |
Problem is, any European army would be using a lot of US equipment and tech. |  |
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| Sounds like it's massively kicked off a the NATO meeting on 11:31 - Jul 12 with 1540 views | WeWereZombies |
| Sounds like it's massively kicked off a the NATO meeting on 11:27 - Jul 12 by Archer4721 |
Yeah but he's "best friends" with Boris Johnson so it's ok. |
And he thinks he is friends with Putin. |  |
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| Sounds like it's massively kicked off a the NATO meeting on 11:38 - Jul 12 with 1500 views | footers |
If the US wants to continue its expansionist military policies that's up to them. No reason European nations should be getting involved (again) with it. |  |
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| Sounds like it's massively kicked off a the NATO meeting on 11:38 - Jul 12 with 1500 views | StokieBlue |
| Sounds like it's massively kicked off a the NATO meeting on 11:29 - Jul 12 by Guthrum |
Problem is, any European army would be using a lot of US equipment and tech. |
It would to begin with but it doesn't have to longer term. I can't think of a single thing off the top of my head which the US would actually sell us that the EU couldn't create themselves.
SB | |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Sounds like it's massively kicked off a the NATO meeting on 11:39 - Jul 12 with 1484 views | chicoazul |
| Sounds like it's massively kicked off a the NATO meeting on 11:38 - Jul 12 by StokieBlue |
It would to begin with but it doesn't have to longer term. I can't think of a single thing off the top of my head which the US would actually sell us that the EU couldn't create themselves.
SB |
Trident? | |
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| Sounds like it's massively kicked off a the NATO meeting on 11:41 - Jul 12 with 1475 views | Lord_Lucan |
I think Brexit is irrelevant on this matter and to be fair I think Trump has a point on this one, USA spends nearly 4% and I believe we already spend over 2% anyway.
If we all want NATO to get involved with our problems why should USA fund it? Let's face it, USA don't need NATO, we are asking USA to fund the defence of Europe.
I don't see how he hasn't got a point. |  |
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| Sounds like it's massively kicked off a the NATO meeting on 11:41 - Jul 12 with 1473 views | blueislander |
| Sounds like it's massively kicked off a the NATO meeting on 11:31 - Jul 12 by WeWereZombies |
And he thinks he is friends with Putin. |
And Kim of course. |  | | |
| Sounds like it's massively kicked off a the NATO meeting on 11:41 - Jul 12 with 1473 views | BrianTablet |
| Sounds like it's massively kicked off a the NATO meeting on 11:38 - Jul 12 by StokieBlue |
It would to begin with but it doesn't have to longer term. I can't think of a single thing off the top of my head which the US would actually sell us that the EU couldn't create themselves.
SB |
Isolationism? |  |
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| Sounds like it's massively kicked off a the NATO meeting on 11:42 - Jul 12 with 1461 views | Swansea_Blue |
Here's a dichotomy. Why is the answer to guns 'more guns' at an international level (i.e. all this trump nonsense at the moment) and lots of people seem to support Trump on this. But at a national level (e.g. America) it isn't the answer and people rightly think it's a stupid idea? |  |
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| Sounds like it's massively kicked off a the NATO meeting on 11:43 - Jul 12 with 1445 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Sounds like it's massively kicked off a the NATO meeting on 11:38 - Jul 12 by footers |
If the US wants to continue its expansionist military policies that's up to them. No reason European nations should be getting involved (again) with it. |
That's a stupid argument. If you want NATO defence then pay for it, if you don't then withdraw. | |
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| Sounds like it's massively kicked off a the NATO meeting on 11:44 - Jul 12 with 1441 views | chicoazul |
| Sounds like it's massively kicked off a the NATO meeting on 11:42 - Jul 12 by Swansea_Blue |
Here's a dichotomy. Why is the answer to guns 'more guns' at an international level (i.e. all this trump nonsense at the moment) and lots of people seem to support Trump on this. But at a national level (e.g. America) it isn't the answer and people rightly think it's a stupid idea? |
Neoliberals and Globalists get themselves very confused by this. Look at the grudging respect they gave Trump when he got the toys out in Syria recently. | |
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| Sounds like it's massively kicked off a the NATO meeting on 11:45 - Jul 12 with 1430 views | StokieBlue |
| Sounds like it's massively kicked off a the NATO meeting on 11:39 - Jul 12 by chicoazul |
Trident? |
French have their own submarine nuclear missiles independent of Trident.
It's also something the UK could create given the time, money and inclination.
SB | |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Sounds like it's massively kicked off a the NATO meeting on 11:45 - Jul 12 with 1428 views | footers |
| Sounds like it's massively kicked off a the NATO meeting on 11:43 - Jul 12 by Lord_Lucan |
That's a stupid argument. If you want NATO defence then pay for it, if you don't then withdraw. |
Defence from what? That's my point. We haven't needed to defend ourselves since the war. NATO shouldn't really exist now anyway. If America wants to go and play in the South China Sea, that's their business. | |
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| Sounds like it's massively kicked off a the NATO meeting on 11:46 - Jul 12 with 1422 views | StokieBlue |
| Sounds like it's massively kicked off a the NATO meeting on 11:42 - Jul 12 by Swansea_Blue |
Here's a dichotomy. Why is the answer to guns 'more guns' at an international level (i.e. all this trump nonsense at the moment) and lots of people seem to support Trump on this. But at a national level (e.g. America) it isn't the answer and people rightly think it's a stupid idea? |
I don't think that is the issue.
The issue is countries not doing things they agreed, spending the money elsewhere and then expecting someone else to pick up the bill.
More guns isn't the answer as you say.
SB | |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Sounds like it's massively kicked off a the NATO meeting on 11:47 - Jul 12 with 1417 views | Guthrum |
| Sounds like it's massively kicked off a the NATO meeting on 11:38 - Jul 12 by StokieBlue |
It would to begin with but it doesn't have to longer term. I can't think of a single thing off the top of my head which the US would actually sell us that the EU couldn't create themselves.
SB |
F35s for our aircraft carriers. Sidewinder missiles.
There's a lot of technology which it's not so much impossible for the EU to develop, more that they couldn't afford to. Plus you have the issue that NATO stuff is all standardised. How long would that last is it were just down to Europe? | |
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| Sounds like it's massively kicked off a the NATO meeting on 11:48 - Jul 12 with 1406 views | chicoazul |
| Sounds like it's massively kicked off a the NATO meeting on 11:45 - Jul 12 by StokieBlue |
French have their own submarine nuclear missiles independent of Trident.
It's also something the UK could create given the time, money and inclination.
SB |
You think the French would share their nuke tech with the rest of the EU? The UK are of course leaving (sort of). | |
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| Sounds like it's massively kicked off a the NATO meeting on 11:49 - Jul 12 with 1399 views | chicoazul |
| Sounds like it's massively kicked off a the NATO meeting on 11:45 - Jul 12 by footers |
Defence from what? That's my point. We haven't needed to defend ourselves since the war. NATO shouldn't really exist now anyway. If America wants to go and play in the South China Sea, that's their business. |
Correct. NATO is a Cold War relic and should be broken up. Eastern Europe shouldnt need US troops anymore. It's been nearly 30 years since the Wall came down. | |
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| Sounds like it's massively kicked off a the NATO meeting on 11:49 - Jul 12 with 1395 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Sounds like it's massively kicked off a the NATO meeting on 11:41 - Jul 12 by Lord_Lucan |
I think Brexit is irrelevant on this matter and to be fair I think Trump has a point on this one, USA spends nearly 4% and I believe we already spend over 2% anyway.
If we all want NATO to get involved with our problems why should USA fund it? Let's face it, USA don't need NATO, we are asking USA to fund the defence of Europe.
I don't see how he hasn't got a point. |
Someone needs to remind Donald Trump of commitments not being met by USA such as foreign aid while they do more in cash terms they are nowhere near the 0.7% of GDP they signed up to. Both UK & Germany meet this commitment.
They do however gift billions of dollars worth of military equipment to Israel such as the F35 which recently bombed targets in Gazza. |  |
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| Sounds like it's massively kicked off a the NATO meeting on 11:50 - Jul 12 with 1390 views | StokieBlue |
| Sounds like it's massively kicked off a the NATO meeting on 11:47 - Jul 12 by Guthrum |
F35s for our aircraft carriers. Sidewinder missiles.
There's a lot of technology which it's not so much impossible for the EU to develop, more that they couldn't afford to. Plus you have the issue that NATO stuff is all standardised. How long would that last is it were just down to Europe? |
Is is standardised?
The French design and build their own systems independent of US standards and don't use sidewinders. Turkey buys stuff from the Russians (which is pretty weird).
F35's are a joint project with a number of countries, once again though, it's not something the EU couldn't do as a block if it so wanted.
I do agree on the NATO standarisation point but if it was a EU army with an EU budget and everyone working on the same projects then standardisation would come by default.
SB [Post edited 12 Jul 2018 11:50]
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| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Sounds like it's massively kicked off a the NATO meeting on 11:51 - Jul 12 with 1382 views | StokieBlue |
| Sounds like it's massively kicked off a the NATO meeting on 11:48 - Jul 12 by chicoazul |
You think the French would share their nuke tech with the rest of the EU? The UK are of course leaving (sort of). |
My original point was based on a scenario where the UK didn't leave and there was a single EU military.
SB | |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Sounds like it's massively kicked off a the NATO meeting on 11:51 - Jul 12 with 1379 views | Guthrum |
| Sounds like it's massively kicked off a the NATO meeting on 11:42 - Jul 12 by Swansea_Blue |
Here's a dichotomy. Why is the answer to guns 'more guns' at an international level (i.e. all this trump nonsense at the moment) and lots of people seem to support Trump on this. But at a national level (e.g. America) it isn't the answer and people rightly think it's a stupid idea? |
A lot of this is not about guns, per se, but about technology. Radar systems, control, communications, countermeasures. They are the really expensive things. NATO philosophy has always been to use technology to defeat superior numbers in potential enemies. | |
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| Sounds like it's massively kicked off a the NATO meeting on 11:52 - Jul 12 with 1378 views | footers |
Also, isn't it a bit arbitrary to commit to 2% GDP anyway. It's like going for your weekly food shop without writing a list and buying a hundred quid's worth of stuff just for the sake of it.
Identify threats and operational needs then spend accordingly. Or are we all pitching in to help BAE now? | |
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