| People of Scotland 17:02 - Aug 1 with 1067 views | Moriarty |
(ie fellow countrymen and women of Andy Murray), would you :-
1. Want to see another referendum on Scotland independence if there is a no deal or hard Brexit;
2. Would that scenario affect what way you vote in such a referendum?
If it happened, the border issue in Ireland comes to the fore on your doorstep.
https://www.msn.com/en-ie/news/brexit/why-leaving-the-eu-could-mean-britain-lose
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| People of Scotland on 17:07 - Aug 1 with 1045 views | Coastalblue |
Are there many Scots on here? I can only think of two immediately, well posters based in Scotland anyway. |  |
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| People of Scotland on 17:12 - Aug 1 with 1021 views | Darth_Koont |
1. Yes
2. No*
*As a non-resident Scot, I can't vote. Which is fair enough. But I hope the Scottish citizens vote for independence as I don't see a better future in Brexit Britain. It was pretty crap before but getting worse — there's no doubt Westminster (especially with BoJo and his nutters in charge) will continue to be useless for British regions, industries and citizens, and do nothing to stop divisions increasing. |  |
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| People of Scotland on 17:13 - Aug 1 with 1007 views | homer_123 |
| People of Scotland on 17:07 - Aug 1 by Coastalblue |
Are there many Scots on here? I can only think of two immediately, well posters based in Scotland anyway. |
I think there might one or two closet skirt wearers. |  |
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| People of Scotland on 17:17 - Aug 1 with 991 views | Pendejo |
Scotland would not be allowed to join EU as member states would oppose it, allowing such a thing would cause so many problems...
Spain - Basque and Catalan peoples would get restless again
Belgium - may possibly split into 2 countries
Can't find the article but there are other EU countries that have areas that would like independence |  |
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| People of Scotland on 17:23 - Aug 1 with 964 views | Darth_Koont |
| People of Scotland on 17:17 - Aug 1 by Pendejo |
Scotland would not be allowed to join EU as member states would oppose it, allowing such a thing would cause so many problems...
Spain - Basque and Catalan peoples would get restless again
Belgium - may possibly split into 2 countries
Can't find the article but there are other EU countries that have areas that would like independence |
The Spanish are concerned about the framework of the EU being used to help separatist movements break up member states.
Despite me feeling that this is something all countries need to concern themselves with and be better at looking after their regions, that's not the same if the member country has left the EU first. What would the Spanish argument be against that? | |
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| People of Scotland on 17:26 - Aug 1 with 949 views | homer_123 |
| People of Scotland on 17:23 - Aug 1 by Darth_Koont |
The Spanish are concerned about the framework of the EU being used to help separatist movements break up member states.
Despite me feeling that this is something all countries need to concern themselves with and be better at looking after their regions, that's not the same if the member country has left the EU first. What would the Spanish argument be against that? |
Stepping back - it's interesting that Scotland want independance from the UK but by the same token want to be part of the EU - it 'sounds' counter intuitive.
Though I fully appreciate and understand the nuances here and that they are 'not' the same bedfellows.
That being said - Scotland leaving the Union (with England being is largest trading partner) isn't a million miles away from the UK leaving the EU.
What's the overall feel back home DK? | |
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| People of Scotland on 17:34 - Aug 1 with 941 views | J2BLUE |
| People of Scotland on 17:17 - Aug 1 by Pendejo |
Scotland would not be allowed to join EU as member states would oppose it, allowing such a thing would cause so many problems...
Spain - Basque and Catalan peoples would get restless again
Belgium - may possibly split into 2 countries
Can't find the article but there are other EU countries that have areas that would like independence |
Spain would oppose Scotland automatically becoming an EU member. They have no issue if Scotland were to leave the EU and then reapply. |  |
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| People of Scotland on 17:53 - Aug 1 with 897 views | Darth_Koont |
| People of Scotland on 17:26 - Aug 1 by homer_123 |
Stepping back - it's interesting that Scotland want independance from the UK but by the same token want to be part of the EU - it 'sounds' counter intuitive.
Though I fully appreciate and understand the nuances here and that they are 'not' the same bedfellows.
That being said - Scotland leaving the Union (with England being is largest trading partner) isn't a million miles away from the UK leaving the EU.
What's the overall feel back home DK? |
It's still different depending who you talk to but I think we're seeing with Brexit that the distrust of Westminster over the years and expressed in the Independence Referendum campaign was well-founded. Successive UK governments' lack of attention to regions, communities, industries and indeed people's everyday concerns created the disillusionment and disenfranchisement that fueled the Leave vote. And the subsequent sh!tshow reveals how the government, many MPs and their parties will put themselves and their narrow interests over the country as a whole. Now the answer is more of the same with BoJo ... only even worse.
So I think the 45% have been confirmed in their view and no doubt will see the waverers in the 55% much less swayed by the risks of Independence given the way the UK is going. It's still a step into the unknown but now it's Scotland in the EU or Scotland in a maverick UK that's seemingly intent on self-harm. So I expect it would be much closer and I can't see how BoJo and won't push even more people towards Independence.
On a side note, you need a bit of counter-intuition to get to the real truth. Politically, economically and socially the centre of gravity and values in Scotland are closer to the EU than they are to the UK. So independence from the UK and going back "under the control" of the EU would really be the same movement not two different and contradictory ones. Also it's madness for even a country the UK's size to be outside that umbrella let alone a country the size of Scotland. | |
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| People of Scotland on 17:55 - Aug 1 with 889 views | Moriarty |
| People of Scotland on 17:12 - Aug 1 by Darth_Koont |
1. Yes
2. No*
*As a non-resident Scot, I can't vote. Which is fair enough. But I hope the Scottish citizens vote for independence as I don't see a better future in Brexit Britain. It was pretty crap before but getting worse — there's no doubt Westminster (especially with BoJo and his nutters in charge) will continue to be useless for British regions, industries and citizens, and do nothing to stop divisions increasing. |
I’m guessing residency is the criteria?
There has been some discussion here in Ireland about the possibility of our diaspora voting in certain elections.
My guess is that a hard Brexit would be very damaging to the UK economy and that Westminster would be less concerned with Scotland’s welfare (or perceived as such) and that would create an even better climate for those advocating Scotland’s independence. | |
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| People of Scotland on 17:58 - Aug 1 with 884 views | Darth_Koont |
| People of Scotland on 17:34 - Aug 1 by J2BLUE |
Spain would oppose Scotland automatically becoming an EU member. They have no issue if Scotland were to leave the EU and then reapply. |
Yes. And I can imagine that would be fast-tracked for political as well as practical reasons i.e. Scotland is already compliant and experienced with the vast majority of the EU laws, regulations and processes that prospective members first need to prove they can comply with. | |
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| People of Scotland on 18:00 - Aug 1 with 872 views | Coastalblue |
| People of Scotland on 17:53 - Aug 1 by Darth_Koont |
It's still different depending who you talk to but I think we're seeing with Brexit that the distrust of Westminster over the years and expressed in the Independence Referendum campaign was well-founded. Successive UK governments' lack of attention to regions, communities, industries and indeed people's everyday concerns created the disillusionment and disenfranchisement that fueled the Leave vote. And the subsequent sh!tshow reveals how the government, many MPs and their parties will put themselves and their narrow interests over the country as a whole. Now the answer is more of the same with BoJo ... only even worse.
So I think the 45% have been confirmed in their view and no doubt will see the waverers in the 55% much less swayed by the risks of Independence given the way the UK is going. It's still a step into the unknown but now it's Scotland in the EU or Scotland in a maverick UK that's seemingly intent on self-harm. So I expect it would be much closer and I can't see how BoJo and won't push even more people towards Independence.
On a side note, you need a bit of counter-intuition to get to the real truth. Politically, economically and socially the centre of gravity and values in Scotland are closer to the EU than they are to the UK. So independence from the UK and going back "under the control" of the EU would really be the same movement not two different and contradictory ones. Also it's madness for even a country the UK's size to be outside that umbrella let alone a country the size of Scotland. |
I think I'd agree with all of that, I'm not a Scot but my partner is and consequently a lot of my extended family. Many of them live in England now and almost all would have voted to stay in the Union last time had they had a vote, I'm not sure that would be the case now.
I think Brexit is leaving huge swathes of Britain as a whole feeling disenfranchised, I know I do, I don't feel remotely represented by either the government or parliament these days. | |
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| People of Scotland on 18:07 - Aug 1 with 859 views | Darth_Koont |
| People of Scotland on 17:55 - Aug 1 by Moriarty |
I’m guessing residency is the criteria?
There has been some discussion here in Ireland about the possibility of our diaspora voting in certain elections.
My guess is that a hard Brexit would be very damaging to the UK economy and that Westminster would be less concerned with Scotland’s welfare (or perceived as such) and that would create an even better climate for those advocating Scotland’s independence. |
Yes, anyone with Scotland as their country of residence. As opposed to the UK that wouldn't let millions of its residents vote in the Brexit referendum. But allowed a significant number of non-residents to have their say. Which doesn't seem as fair.
Agree entirely with your last para. The idea that the interests of the UK's poorer regions and people will be looked after in a hard Brexit is ridiculous. Politicians will be too busy fighting political battles and trying to satisfy a disapproving Establishment and middle class. In the poorer areas of the country they'll just talk about how everything is alright because we've curbed immigration (even if we aren't and that wasn't the problem anyway). | |
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| People of Scotland on 18:09 - Aug 1 with 859 views | Moriarty |
| People of Scotland on 17:34 - Aug 1 by J2BLUE |
Spain would oppose Scotland automatically becoming an EU member. They have no issue if Scotland were to leave the EU and then reapply. |
Many of the Unionist population in Northern Ireland trace their roots to Scotland, yet their destinies may lie on very different paths.
A hard Brexit could conceivably lead to a hard border in Ireland and in Britain (were Scotland to become independent and join the EU). That would be bizarre.
Many English politicians have displayed an alarming level of stupidity concerning the border issue in Ireland. And yet to say a like problem could land on their own doorstep isn’t exactly nihil ad rem.
There’s a proper mess brewing. | |
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| People of Scotland on 18:12 - Aug 1 with 847 views | ElephantintheRoom |
You're looking at this the wrong way. England is keen to get rid of Scotland - or at least that is the tory strategy. More Scots live in England than Scotland. No Tory cares about the country - they were told if they voted to leave the union they would have to leave the EU so the sense of betrayal is real and palpable. On the other hand Scotland is a huge burden on the Tory South Eaast - its national debt is greater than that of Greece. So one and perhaps the only survival strategy for England post-Brexit is to divest themselves of the troublesome (and expensive) Scots. |  |
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| People of Scotland on 18:20 - Aug 1 with 825 views | Darth_Koont |
| People of Scotland on 18:12 - Aug 1 by ElephantintheRoom |
You're looking at this the wrong way. England is keen to get rid of Scotland - or at least that is the tory strategy. More Scots live in England than Scotland. No Tory cares about the country - they were told if they voted to leave the union they would have to leave the EU so the sense of betrayal is real and palpable. On the other hand Scotland is a huge burden on the Tory South Eaast - its national debt is greater than that of Greece. So one and perhaps the only survival strategy for England post-Brexit is to divest themselves of the troublesome (and expensive) Scots. |
Why stop there? You should also abandon similarly troublesome and expensive Northern Ireland, Wales, the North, West and Midlands with the exception of Bristol and parts of Manchester and Birmingham.
Oh wait ... you already have. | |
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| People of Scotland on 18:25 - Aug 1 with 813 views | SpruceMoose |
| People of Scotland on 18:12 - Aug 1 by ElephantintheRoom |
You're looking at this the wrong way. England is keen to get rid of Scotland - or at least that is the tory strategy. More Scots live in England than Scotland. No Tory cares about the country - they were told if they voted to leave the union they would have to leave the EU so the sense of betrayal is real and palpable. On the other hand Scotland is a huge burden on the Tory South Eaast - its national debt is greater than that of Greece. So one and perhaps the only survival strategy for England post-Brexit is to divest themselves of the troublesome (and expensive) Scots. |
I have difficulty having faith in your accuracy after your strident claims that Brits were the second largest group of people residing in the US without documentation... |  |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| People of Scotland on 18:27 - Aug 1 with 815 views | Moriarty |
| People of Scotland on 18:12 - Aug 1 by ElephantintheRoom |
You're looking at this the wrong way. England is keen to get rid of Scotland - or at least that is the tory strategy. More Scots live in England than Scotland. No Tory cares about the country - they were told if they voted to leave the union they would have to leave the EU so the sense of betrayal is real and palpable. On the other hand Scotland is a huge burden on the Tory South Eaast - its national debt is greater than that of Greece. So one and perhaps the only survival strategy for England post-Brexit is to divest themselves of the troublesome (and expensive) Scots. |
In defence of Scotland, she may thrive when she has control of her destiny.
Dublin was Europe’s biggest slum when ruled by London. Since our independence we’ve undergone significant economic and social change. I know we had a blip a few years ago, but we’re back on the dance floor with the fastest growing economy in Europe and unemployment at approx 4%.
Scotland could similarly improve its station.
Replace “Scotland” with “Northern Ireland” in your post? | |
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| People of Scotland on 18:28 - Aug 1 with 810 views | Moriarty |
| People of Scotland on 18:20 - Aug 1 by Darth_Koont |
Why stop there? You should also abandon similarly troublesome and expensive Northern Ireland, Wales, the North, West and Midlands with the exception of Bristol and parts of Manchester and Birmingham.
Oh wait ... you already have. |
I would have thought the North of Ireland would be top of the amputation list. | |
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| People of Scotland on 18:29 - Aug 1 with 809 views | gordon |
| People of Scotland on 18:00 - Aug 1 by Coastalblue |
I think I'd agree with all of that, I'm not a Scot but my partner is and consequently a lot of my extended family. Many of them live in England now and almost all would have voted to stay in the Union last time had they had a vote, I'm not sure that would be the case now.
I think Brexit is leaving huge swathes of Britain as a whole feeling disenfranchised, I know I do, I don't feel remotely represented by either the government or parliament these days. |
From a purely economic or practical perspective it may well be the case that Scottish Independence is about to become a more complicated proposition. But the whole Brexit affair whatever the next development, and the rise to prominence of a particular type of Englishman (Johnson, Farage, Rees-Mogg) will have more effect on the situation. That brand of Englishness is hated with passion pretty much across the board in Scotland.
I'm English but have lived in Scotland for 10 years or so, but voted for independence in 2014 purely because Holyrood and the party leaders (across all parties, not just the ones that might reflect my views) are so much more competent and in tune with the lives and challenges ordinary people face. I'd obviously vote again for Scottish Independence, whatever the practical challenges. |  | | |
| People of Scotland on 18:51 - Aug 1 with 769 views | Darth_Koont |
| People of Scotland on 18:29 - Aug 1 by gordon |
From a purely economic or practical perspective it may well be the case that Scottish Independence is about to become a more complicated proposition. But the whole Brexit affair whatever the next development, and the rise to prominence of a particular type of Englishman (Johnson, Farage, Rees-Mogg) will have more effect on the situation. That brand of Englishness is hated with passion pretty much across the board in Scotland.
I'm English but have lived in Scotland for 10 years or so, but voted for independence in 2014 purely because Holyrood and the party leaders (across all parties, not just the ones that might reflect my views) are so much more competent and in tune with the lives and challenges ordinary people face. I'd obviously vote again for Scottish Independence, whatever the practical challenges. |
Good to hear your rational reasons for it. I think those reasons are infinitely more relevant and accurate than the accusation from outside Scotland that this is driven by populist nationalism like UKIP or even the EDL.
Having said that, I agree that the type of Englishman on the rise down south won't go down well. For some reason, in England, Johnson, Farage and Rees-Mogg are too often seen as quaint and lovable because they are channelling some admirable "Englishness". Slap a French accent on them and see how long that admiration would last. | |
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| People of Scotland on 20:44 - Aug 1 with 713 views | gordon |
| People of Scotland on 18:51 - Aug 1 by Darth_Koont |
Good to hear your rational reasons for it. I think those reasons are infinitely more relevant and accurate than the accusation from outside Scotland that this is driven by populist nationalism like UKIP or even the EDL.
Having said that, I agree that the type of Englishman on the rise down south won't go down well. For some reason, in England, Johnson, Farage and Rees-Mogg are too often seen as quaint and lovable because they are channelling some admirable "Englishness". Slap a French accent on them and see how long that admiration would last. |
About 9 months before the referendum I was lodging with a high school PE teacher near Inverness for work. One evening she brought home that massive book the SNP had printed with all their policies for an independent Scotland, projections for the economy etc. Even though she had never shown any interest in politics before then, she read it every night for a couple of weeks. Then one evening she told me she'd made up her mind, and the book was never seen again. | | | |
| People of Scotland on 21:45 - Aug 1 with 665 views | m14_blue |
| People of Scotland on 18:09 - Aug 1 by Moriarty |
Many of the Unionist population in Northern Ireland trace their roots to Scotland, yet their destinies may lie on very different paths.
A hard Brexit could conceivably lead to a hard border in Ireland and in Britain (were Scotland to become independent and join the EU). That would be bizarre.
Many English politicians have displayed an alarming level of stupidity concerning the border issue in Ireland. And yet to say a like problem could land on their own doorstep isn’t exactly nihil ad rem.
There’s a proper mess brewing. |
And it’s all for nothing.
It’s just utter madness.
Barely anyone’s even bothering to pretend it’s going to be anything other than a sh1tshow any more, they’re just squabbling about what colour polish to use on the turd. A cabinet minister was being interviewed earlier and was asked to be one benefit of a hard brexit, after some awkward fumbling he eventually mumbled something about the referendum being honoured.
It’s just utter, utter madness. | | | |
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