| As for the story about the much lauded Hercules full of PPE from Turkey 08:48 - May 7 with 4038 views | sparks |
Staggering incompetence.
This has been a very difficult crisis to deal with. We do not know how closely the government have followed scientific advice- probably to a large extent.
But the lack of candour over PPE, right from the start, has been an utter disgrace. |  |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
| |  |
| As for the story about the much lauded Hercules full of PPE from Turkey on 08:52 - May 7 with 2428 views | Guthrum |
I'm not entirely sure how the batch of gowns failed to be quality-checked at source, before the shipment even left the Turkish factory. Unless somebody was trying to pull wool over eyes, promising one thing and delivering another. |  |
| |
| As for the story about the much lauded Hercules full of PPE from Turkey on 08:54 - May 7 with 2412 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| As for the story about the much lauded Hercules full of PPE from Turkey on 08:52 - May 7 by Guthrum |
I'm not entirely sure how the batch of gowns failed to be quality-checked at source, before the shipment even left the Turkish factory. Unless somebody was trying to pull wool over eyes, promising one thing and delivering another. |
Welcome to 'The Society of the Spectacle.' |  |
| |
| As for the story about the much lauded Hercules full of PPE from Turkey on 08:54 - May 7 with 2423 views | NotSure |
It appears in their desperation to source some PPE they've ended up talking to Turkey's version of Del Boy. And getting 400,000 bin bags! |  | | |
| As for the story about the much lauded Hercules full of PPE from Turkey on 08:55 - May 7 with 2420 views | Guthrum |
| As for the story about the much lauded Hercules full of PPE from Turkey on 08:54 - May 7 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Welcome to 'The Society of the Spectacle.' |
One of the worst parts of this being that ministers were apparently advised not to go public untl the stuff had arrived, but couldn't resist. [Post edited 7 May 2020 8:56]
| |
| |
| As for the story about the much lauded Hercules full of PPE from Turkey on 08:57 - May 7 with 2407 views | sparks |
| As for the story about the much lauded Hercules full of PPE from Turkey on 08:55 - May 7 by Guthrum |
One of the worst parts of this being that ministers were apparently advised not to go public untl the stuff had arrived, but couldn't resist. [Post edited 7 May 2020 8:56]
|
Hancock initially denied problems with PPE. Then he said there had been a glitch which was sorted. The information provided has not been- and one suspects continues not to be, honest. | |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
| |
| As for the story about the much lauded Hercules full of PPE from Turkey on 09:15 - May 7 with 2380 views | Lord_Lucan |
Sorry but I take a different view on this.
The government is going to have to be examined after all of this and learn from mistakes and take criticism for mistakes made but ..........................
You have a worldwide shortage of PPE and normal supply chains of preferred suppliers cannot cope or deliver. The media are bombarding the government over the lack of PPE and there are newspaper reports (repeated on here) of how this bloke and that bloke can source one million ventilators and 10 million masks and all that sort of waffle. So government bods are scrambling everywhere to buy what they can.
Before you get anywhere you have to produce necessary CE certificates and batch reports. So basically the Turkish firm will have misreported on the tests.
Even when the stock comes in with all the correct documentation it has to be batch tested by our people - probably HSL.
So it didn't pass tests and is scrapped but you cannot test it until it gets here. Even if they sent samples and these passed it doesn't mean that the main shipment will pass.
Countries all over Europe have been sending dodgy kit back all over the place and quite rightly so, if it fails tests it cannot be used.
The fault is with the Turks
This is what a simple gown has to pass.
6. Lot 4 — Gowns
6.1. This lot is for gowns and includes:
â— Sterile gowns.
â— Non-sterile gowns — sometimes referred to as Isolation gowns.
â— Thumb-looped aprons.
6.2. Standards/Directives/Legislative requirements
STANDARD / CERTIFICATION
BS EN 13795:2019 or equivalent standard
Surgical drapes, gowns and clean air suits, used as medical devices for patients,
clinical staff and equipment. General requirements for manufacturers, processors
and products, test methods, performance requirements and performance levels.
BS EN11810:2015. Must be fire resistant/ tested for laser ignition and
penetration
6.3. Sterile single use surgical gowns used to cover the wearer whilst in an operating
theatre or environment which requires a sterile covering in such a way as to prevent
exposure to potentially contaminated fluids, including those which may contain
pathogens as well as helping to prevent the wearer from contaminating the clean
surgical site.
6.4. Products in this Lot include:
â— Sterile single use Standard Lite gown.
â— Sterile single use standard gown.
â— Sterile Single use Standard High-Performance gown.
Type of gown Hydrostatic pressure Guidance for use/
comments
Standard Lite >20cm H 2 O Minimal pressure as
stated in standard
EN13795: 2019
Standard >50cm H 2 O Minimal exposure to fluids
Standard High
performance
>100cm H 2 O Potential risk of low levels
of fluids for a limited
period in all areas
6.4.1. All products in this Lot must comply with the following:
â— Must be supplied sterile;
â— Must be single use;
â— Must be latex free;
â— Must be individually packaged;
â— Must contain within the packaging a sterile field to open the gown onto.
â— Must be folded with the inside facing outward and the collar visible, the wearer
must be able to don the gown without touching the patient facing side;
â— Contain 2 absorbent hand towels placed on the top of the gown upon opening
with a minimum size of 30cm by 40cm;
â— Be anti-static;
â— Tie lengths on the inside of the gown must be between 35cm and 50cm (+/-
10%);
8
â— Tie lengths on the outside of the gown must be between 35cm and 75cm (+/-
10%) to prevent them touching the floor when being worn; and
â— Must be available in sizes S, M, L, XL as a minimum.
6.5. Non-Sterile Gowns or Isolation gowns are used for procedures that do not require a
sterile product. They are required where the users need a degree of comfort and
protection with low risk of fluid where simple plastic aprons do not offer enough
coverage or protection. Non-Sterile Gowns are mainly used in Barrier nursing in
preventing the spread of infection from one person to another in hospital and for
minor procedures within the hospital or community setting.
6.5.1. Products in this lot include:
â— Fluid resistant isolation gown -low.
â— Fluid resistant gown - medium.
â— Impervious isolation gown.
Type of gown Hydrostatic pressure Guidance for use/
comments
Fluid resistant
isolation gown
>20cm H 2 O — 28.4cm H 2 O Low exposure to fluids
Fluid resistant
isolation gown
>57.3cm H 2 O Medium exposure to fluids
Impervious Isolation
gown
>91cm H 2 O High exposure to fluids
6.5.2. All products in this Lot must comply with the following:
â— Must be single use;
â— Must be latex free;
â— Be anti-static;
â— Must be low linting;
â— Be fire resistant;
â— Cuffs must be knitted and attached to the gown via overlock stitching;
â— Seams to be welded;
â— Tie lengths on the inside of the gown must be between 35cm and 50 cm
(+/-10%);
â— Tie lengths on the outside of the gown must be between 35cm and 75cm
(+/-10%) to prevent them touching the floor when being worn; and
â— Must be available in sizes M, L, XL, XXL as a minimum.
6.6. Thumb looped aprons are used for tasks where fully impervious non-sterile protection
is needed.
6.6.1. All products in this Lot must comply with the following:
â— The thumb loop apron is a length to give the wearer protection (below knee but
above the ankle);
â— The thumb looped apron sleeves are long enough to ensure the arms are fully
covered; and
â— The thumb looped apron has ties to secure the apron securely around the body. [Post edited 7 May 2020 9:16]
|  |
| |
| As for the story about the much lauded Hercules full of PPE from Turkey on 09:47 - May 7 with 2316 views | GlasgowBlue |
| As for the story about the much lauded Hercules full of PPE from Turkey on 09:15 - May 7 by Lord_Lucan |
Sorry but I take a different view on this.
The government is going to have to be examined after all of this and learn from mistakes and take criticism for mistakes made but ..........................
You have a worldwide shortage of PPE and normal supply chains of preferred suppliers cannot cope or deliver. The media are bombarding the government over the lack of PPE and there are newspaper reports (repeated on here) of how this bloke and that bloke can source one million ventilators and 10 million masks and all that sort of waffle. So government bods are scrambling everywhere to buy what they can.
Before you get anywhere you have to produce necessary CE certificates and batch reports. So basically the Turkish firm will have misreported on the tests.
Even when the stock comes in with all the correct documentation it has to be batch tested by our people - probably HSL.
So it didn't pass tests and is scrapped but you cannot test it until it gets here. Even if they sent samples and these passed it doesn't mean that the main shipment will pass.
Countries all over Europe have been sending dodgy kit back all over the place and quite rightly so, if it fails tests it cannot be used.
The fault is with the Turks
This is what a simple gown has to pass.
6. Lot 4 — Gowns
6.1. This lot is for gowns and includes:
â— Sterile gowns.
â— Non-sterile gowns — sometimes referred to as Isolation gowns.
â— Thumb-looped aprons.
6.2. Standards/Directives/Legislative requirements
STANDARD / CERTIFICATION
BS EN 13795:2019 or equivalent standard
Surgical drapes, gowns and clean air suits, used as medical devices for patients,
clinical staff and equipment. General requirements for manufacturers, processors
and products, test methods, performance requirements and performance levels.
BS EN11810:2015. Must be fire resistant/ tested for laser ignition and
penetration
6.3. Sterile single use surgical gowns used to cover the wearer whilst in an operating
theatre or environment which requires a sterile covering in such a way as to prevent
exposure to potentially contaminated fluids, including those which may contain
pathogens as well as helping to prevent the wearer from contaminating the clean
surgical site.
6.4. Products in this Lot include:
â— Sterile single use Standard Lite gown.
â— Sterile single use standard gown.
â— Sterile Single use Standard High-Performance gown.
Type of gown Hydrostatic pressure Guidance for use/
comments
Standard Lite >20cm H 2 O Minimal pressure as
stated in standard
EN13795: 2019
Standard >50cm H 2 O Minimal exposure to fluids
Standard High
performance
>100cm H 2 O Potential risk of low levels
of fluids for a limited
period in all areas
6.4.1. All products in this Lot must comply with the following:
â— Must be supplied sterile;
â— Must be single use;
â— Must be latex free;
â— Must be individually packaged;
â— Must contain within the packaging a sterile field to open the gown onto.
â— Must be folded with the inside facing outward and the collar visible, the wearer
must be able to don the gown without touching the patient facing side;
â— Contain 2 absorbent hand towels placed on the top of the gown upon opening
with a minimum size of 30cm by 40cm;
â— Be anti-static;
â— Tie lengths on the inside of the gown must be between 35cm and 50cm (+/-
10%);
8
â— Tie lengths on the outside of the gown must be between 35cm and 75cm (+/-
10%) to prevent them touching the floor when being worn; and
â— Must be available in sizes S, M, L, XL as a minimum.
6.5. Non-Sterile Gowns or Isolation gowns are used for procedures that do not require a
sterile product. They are required where the users need a degree of comfort and
protection with low risk of fluid where simple plastic aprons do not offer enough
coverage or protection. Non-Sterile Gowns are mainly used in Barrier nursing in
preventing the spread of infection from one person to another in hospital and for
minor procedures within the hospital or community setting.
6.5.1. Products in this lot include:
â— Fluid resistant isolation gown -low.
â— Fluid resistant gown - medium.
â— Impervious isolation gown.
Type of gown Hydrostatic pressure Guidance for use/
comments
Fluid resistant
isolation gown
>20cm H 2 O — 28.4cm H 2 O Low exposure to fluids
Fluid resistant
isolation gown
>57.3cm H 2 O Medium exposure to fluids
Impervious Isolation
gown
>91cm H 2 O High exposure to fluids
6.5.2. All products in this Lot must comply with the following:
â— Must be single use;
â— Must be latex free;
â— Be anti-static;
â— Must be low linting;
â— Be fire resistant;
â— Cuffs must be knitted and attached to the gown via overlock stitching;
â— Seams to be welded;
â— Tie lengths on the inside of the gown must be between 35cm and 50 cm
(+/-10%);
â— Tie lengths on the outside of the gown must be between 35cm and 75cm
(+/-10%) to prevent them touching the floor when being worn; and
â— Must be available in sizes M, L, XL, XXL as a minimum.
6.6. Thumb looped aprons are used for tasks where fully impervious non-sterile protection
is needed.
6.6.1. All products in this Lot must comply with the following:
â— The thumb loop apron is a length to give the wearer protection (below knee but
above the ankle);
â— The thumb looped apron sleeves are long enough to ensure the arms are fully
covered; and
â— The thumb looped apron has ties to secure the apron securely around the body. [Post edited 7 May 2020 9:16]
|
Yeah but that doesn’t read as well as “more incompetence over PPE.” |  |
| |
| As for the story about the much lauded Hercules full of PPE from Turkey on 09:49 - May 7 with 2310 views | sparks |
| As for the story about the much lauded Hercules full of PPE from Turkey on 09:47 - May 7 by GlasgowBlue |
Yeah but that doesn’t read as well as “more incompetence over PPE.” |
Why has hte story only emerged now?
This was trailed as the big effort and success in the PPE issue when the problems were initially (belatedly) admitted. We had news coverage of the plane landing. Then weeks of stories about PPE problems-- and only now does this come out.
The lack of candour is unacceptable. | |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
| |
Login to get fewer ads
| As for the story about the much lauded Hercules full of PPE from Turkey on 09:51 - May 7 with 2305 views | JakeITFC |
| As for the story about the much lauded Hercules full of PPE from Turkey on 09:47 - May 7 by GlasgowBlue |
Yeah but that doesn’t read as well as “more incompetence over PPE.” |
The incompetence is surely in the constant heralding of this package from ministers when they clearly didn't have a clue about the contents. |  | | |
| As for the story about the much lauded Hercules full of PPE from Turkey on 10:00 - May 7 with 2277 views | NewcyBlue |
| As for the story about the much lauded Hercules full of PPE from Turkey on 09:15 - May 7 by Lord_Lucan |
Sorry but I take a different view on this.
The government is going to have to be examined after all of this and learn from mistakes and take criticism for mistakes made but ..........................
You have a worldwide shortage of PPE and normal supply chains of preferred suppliers cannot cope or deliver. The media are bombarding the government over the lack of PPE and there are newspaper reports (repeated on here) of how this bloke and that bloke can source one million ventilators and 10 million masks and all that sort of waffle. So government bods are scrambling everywhere to buy what they can.
Before you get anywhere you have to produce necessary CE certificates and batch reports. So basically the Turkish firm will have misreported on the tests.
Even when the stock comes in with all the correct documentation it has to be batch tested by our people - probably HSL.
So it didn't pass tests and is scrapped but you cannot test it until it gets here. Even if they sent samples and these passed it doesn't mean that the main shipment will pass.
Countries all over Europe have been sending dodgy kit back all over the place and quite rightly so, if it fails tests it cannot be used.
The fault is with the Turks
This is what a simple gown has to pass.
6. Lot 4 — Gowns
6.1. This lot is for gowns and includes:
â— Sterile gowns.
â— Non-sterile gowns — sometimes referred to as Isolation gowns.
â— Thumb-looped aprons.
6.2. Standards/Directives/Legislative requirements
STANDARD / CERTIFICATION
BS EN 13795:2019 or equivalent standard
Surgical drapes, gowns and clean air suits, used as medical devices for patients,
clinical staff and equipment. General requirements for manufacturers, processors
and products, test methods, performance requirements and performance levels.
BS EN11810:2015. Must be fire resistant/ tested for laser ignition and
penetration
6.3. Sterile single use surgical gowns used to cover the wearer whilst in an operating
theatre or environment which requires a sterile covering in such a way as to prevent
exposure to potentially contaminated fluids, including those which may contain
pathogens as well as helping to prevent the wearer from contaminating the clean
surgical site.
6.4. Products in this Lot include:
â— Sterile single use Standard Lite gown.
â— Sterile single use standard gown.
â— Sterile Single use Standard High-Performance gown.
Type of gown Hydrostatic pressure Guidance for use/
comments
Standard Lite >20cm H 2 O Minimal pressure as
stated in standard
EN13795: 2019
Standard >50cm H 2 O Minimal exposure to fluids
Standard High
performance
>100cm H 2 O Potential risk of low levels
of fluids for a limited
period in all areas
6.4.1. All products in this Lot must comply with the following:
â— Must be supplied sterile;
â— Must be single use;
â— Must be latex free;
â— Must be individually packaged;
â— Must contain within the packaging a sterile field to open the gown onto.
â— Must be folded with the inside facing outward and the collar visible, the wearer
must be able to don the gown without touching the patient facing side;
â— Contain 2 absorbent hand towels placed on the top of the gown upon opening
with a minimum size of 30cm by 40cm;
â— Be anti-static;
â— Tie lengths on the inside of the gown must be between 35cm and 50cm (+/-
10%);
8
â— Tie lengths on the outside of the gown must be between 35cm and 75cm (+/-
10%) to prevent them touching the floor when being worn; and
â— Must be available in sizes S, M, L, XL as a minimum.
6.5. Non-Sterile Gowns or Isolation gowns are used for procedures that do not require a
sterile product. They are required where the users need a degree of comfort and
protection with low risk of fluid where simple plastic aprons do not offer enough
coverage or protection. Non-Sterile Gowns are mainly used in Barrier nursing in
preventing the spread of infection from one person to another in hospital and for
minor procedures within the hospital or community setting.
6.5.1. Products in this lot include:
â— Fluid resistant isolation gown -low.
â— Fluid resistant gown - medium.
â— Impervious isolation gown.
Type of gown Hydrostatic pressure Guidance for use/
comments
Fluid resistant
isolation gown
>20cm H 2 O — 28.4cm H 2 O Low exposure to fluids
Fluid resistant
isolation gown
>57.3cm H 2 O Medium exposure to fluids
Impervious Isolation
gown
>91cm H 2 O High exposure to fluids
6.5.2. All products in this Lot must comply with the following:
â— Must be single use;
â— Must be latex free;
â— Be anti-static;
â— Must be low linting;
â— Be fire resistant;
â— Cuffs must be knitted and attached to the gown via overlock stitching;
â— Seams to be welded;
â— Tie lengths on the inside of the gown must be between 35cm and 50 cm
(+/-10%);
â— Tie lengths on the outside of the gown must be between 35cm and 75cm
(+/-10%) to prevent them touching the floor when being worn; and
â— Must be available in sizes M, L, XL, XXL as a minimum.
6.6. Thumb looped aprons are used for tasks where fully impervious non-sterile protection
is needed.
6.6.1. All products in this Lot must comply with the following:
â— The thumb loop apron is a length to give the wearer protection (below knee but
above the ankle);
â— The thumb looped apron sleeves are long enough to ensure the arms are fully
covered; and
â— The thumb looped apron has ties to secure the apron securely around the body. [Post edited 7 May 2020 9:16]
|
I think the issue is the head in the sand approach to all this, and the lies.
The PPE requirements for front line staff has been downgraded. I don’t believe it’s been downgraded for any other reason than a lack of PPE.
It’s all a shambles really. The £60k payment to families of NHS workers who have died because of COVID reeks of hush money.
After all this is said and done, I want to see the people responsible held to account. |  |
| |
| As for the story about the much lauded Hercules full of PPE from Turkey on 10:01 - May 7 with 2273 views | NewcyBlue |
| As for the story about the much lauded Hercules full of PPE from Turkey on 09:51 - May 7 by JakeITFC |
The incompetence is surely in the constant heralding of this package from ministers when they clearly didn't have a clue about the contents. |
“ DHSC had advised No 10 not to allow Jenrick to publicise the shipment in case it backfired, but was overruled.” | |
| |
| As for the story about the much lauded Hercules full of PPE from Turkey on 10:12 - May 7 with 2244 views | Guthrum |
| As for the story about the much lauded Hercules full of PPE from Turkey on 09:15 - May 7 by Lord_Lucan |
Sorry but I take a different view on this.
The government is going to have to be examined after all of this and learn from mistakes and take criticism for mistakes made but ..........................
You have a worldwide shortage of PPE and normal supply chains of preferred suppliers cannot cope or deliver. The media are bombarding the government over the lack of PPE and there are newspaper reports (repeated on here) of how this bloke and that bloke can source one million ventilators and 10 million masks and all that sort of waffle. So government bods are scrambling everywhere to buy what they can.
Before you get anywhere you have to produce necessary CE certificates and batch reports. So basically the Turkish firm will have misreported on the tests.
Even when the stock comes in with all the correct documentation it has to be batch tested by our people - probably HSL.
So it didn't pass tests and is scrapped but you cannot test it until it gets here. Even if they sent samples and these passed it doesn't mean that the main shipment will pass.
Countries all over Europe have been sending dodgy kit back all over the place and quite rightly so, if it fails tests it cannot be used.
The fault is with the Turks
This is what a simple gown has to pass.
6. Lot 4 — Gowns
6.1. This lot is for gowns and includes:
â— Sterile gowns.
â— Non-sterile gowns — sometimes referred to as Isolation gowns.
â— Thumb-looped aprons.
6.2. Standards/Directives/Legislative requirements
STANDARD / CERTIFICATION
BS EN 13795:2019 or equivalent standard
Surgical drapes, gowns and clean air suits, used as medical devices for patients,
clinical staff and equipment. General requirements for manufacturers, processors
and products, test methods, performance requirements and performance levels.
BS EN11810:2015. Must be fire resistant/ tested for laser ignition and
penetration
6.3. Sterile single use surgical gowns used to cover the wearer whilst in an operating
theatre or environment which requires a sterile covering in such a way as to prevent
exposure to potentially contaminated fluids, including those which may contain
pathogens as well as helping to prevent the wearer from contaminating the clean
surgical site.
6.4. Products in this Lot include:
â— Sterile single use Standard Lite gown.
â— Sterile single use standard gown.
â— Sterile Single use Standard High-Performance gown.
Type of gown Hydrostatic pressure Guidance for use/
comments
Standard Lite >20cm H 2 O Minimal pressure as
stated in standard
EN13795: 2019
Standard >50cm H 2 O Minimal exposure to fluids
Standard High
performance
>100cm H 2 O Potential risk of low levels
of fluids for a limited
period in all areas
6.4.1. All products in this Lot must comply with the following:
â— Must be supplied sterile;
â— Must be single use;
â— Must be latex free;
â— Must be individually packaged;
â— Must contain within the packaging a sterile field to open the gown onto.
â— Must be folded with the inside facing outward and the collar visible, the wearer
must be able to don the gown without touching the patient facing side;
â— Contain 2 absorbent hand towels placed on the top of the gown upon opening
with a minimum size of 30cm by 40cm;
â— Be anti-static;
â— Tie lengths on the inside of the gown must be between 35cm and 50cm (+/-
10%);
8
â— Tie lengths on the outside of the gown must be between 35cm and 75cm (+/-
10%) to prevent them touching the floor when being worn; and
â— Must be available in sizes S, M, L, XL as a minimum.
6.5. Non-Sterile Gowns or Isolation gowns are used for procedures that do not require a
sterile product. They are required where the users need a degree of comfort and
protection with low risk of fluid where simple plastic aprons do not offer enough
coverage or protection. Non-Sterile Gowns are mainly used in Barrier nursing in
preventing the spread of infection from one person to another in hospital and for
minor procedures within the hospital or community setting.
6.5.1. Products in this lot include:
â— Fluid resistant isolation gown -low.
â— Fluid resistant gown - medium.
â— Impervious isolation gown.
Type of gown Hydrostatic pressure Guidance for use/
comments
Fluid resistant
isolation gown
>20cm H 2 O — 28.4cm H 2 O Low exposure to fluids
Fluid resistant
isolation gown
>57.3cm H 2 O Medium exposure to fluids
Impervious Isolation
gown
>91cm H 2 O High exposure to fluids
6.5.2. All products in this Lot must comply with the following:
â— Must be single use;
â— Must be latex free;
â— Be anti-static;
â— Must be low linting;
â— Be fire resistant;
â— Cuffs must be knitted and attached to the gown via overlock stitching;
â— Seams to be welded;
â— Tie lengths on the inside of the gown must be between 35cm and 50 cm
(+/-10%);
â— Tie lengths on the outside of the gown must be between 35cm and 75cm
(+/-10%) to prevent them touching the floor when being worn; and
â— Must be available in sizes M, L, XL, XXL as a minimum.
6.6. Thumb looped aprons are used for tasks where fully impervious non-sterile protection
is needed.
6.6.1. All products in this Lot must comply with the following:
â— The thumb loop apron is a length to give the wearer protection (below knee but
above the ankle);
â— The thumb looped apron sleeves are long enough to ensure the arms are fully
covered; and
â— The thumb looped apron has ties to secure the apron securely around the body. [Post edited 7 May 2020 9:16]
|
Could they not have sent someone out to check at the factory end what was being made? From the embassy, if nothing else.
This being somewhat important, would justify the journey. | |
| |
| As for the story about the much lauded Hercules full of PPE from Turkey on 10:17 - May 7 with 2226 views | sparks |
| As for the story about the much lauded Hercules full of PPE from Turkey on 10:12 - May 7 by Guthrum |
Could they not have sent someone out to check at the factory end what was being made? From the embassy, if nothing else.
This being somewhat important, would justify the journey. |
As I recall- there were delays and somethign went on when it was due to be shipped. I wonder whether there was some sort of inspection and recognition that there were issues at that stage... | |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
| |
| As for the story about the much lauded Hercules full of PPE from Turkey on 10:36 - May 7 with 2181 views | Radlett_blue |
| As for the story about the much lauded Hercules full of PPE from Turkey on 09:49 - May 7 by sparks |
Why has hte story only emerged now?
This was trailed as the big effort and success in the PPE issue when the problems were initially (belatedly) admitted. We had news coverage of the plane landing. Then weeks of stories about PPE problems-- and only now does this come out.
The lack of candour is unacceptable. |
The media are desperate for "stories" & those related to the Corona virus are the only game in town. It's obvious that everyone would clamour for more PPE at the same time & most were going to be disappointed. Most of us weren't aware of the complexity of the safety regulations (thanks Lucan) . The responsibility for ordering PPE & all equipment has always been the responsibility of the NHS managers, not the government. Their job in the crisis is largely to make sure funding is available & if possible, reduce some of the "red tape" involved. The one error the government did make was trumpeting about this huge plane load that was about to arrive - rather like Billy Bunter & his postal order. |  |
| |
| As for the story about the much lauded Hercules full of PPE from Turkey on 10:38 - May 7 with 2180 views | sparks |
| As for the story about the much lauded Hercules full of PPE from Turkey on 10:36 - May 7 by Radlett_blue |
The media are desperate for "stories" & those related to the Corona virus are the only game in town. It's obvious that everyone would clamour for more PPE at the same time & most were going to be disappointed. Most of us weren't aware of the complexity of the safety regulations (thanks Lucan) . The responsibility for ordering PPE & all equipment has always been the responsibility of the NHS managers, not the government. Their job in the crisis is largely to make sure funding is available & if possible, reduce some of the "red tape" involved. The one error the government did make was trumpeting about this huge plane load that was about to arrive - rather like Billy Bunter & his postal order. |
No-
1- they have also been purposely misleading about it.
2- At a time of national crisis- it DOES become their job to source and deal with logistics.
3- I am very interested to see if there is clear evidence that PPE requirements / provision has been downgraded / adjusted to meet supply. That may be a valid decision to make- but not if you claim that PPE needs are being fully met (having reduced the needs below optimum to fit the supply...) | |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
| |
| As for the story about the much lauded Hercules full of PPE from Turkey on 10:46 - May 7 with 2168 views | NewcyBlue |
| As for the story about the much lauded Hercules full of PPE from Turkey on 10:38 - May 7 by sparks |
No-
1- they have also been purposely misleading about it.
2- At a time of national crisis- it DOES become their job to source and deal with logistics.
3- I am very interested to see if there is clear evidence that PPE requirements / provision has been downgraded / adjusted to meet supply. That may be a valid decision to make- but not if you claim that PPE needs are being fully met (having reduced the needs below optimum to fit the supply...) |
MrsN is a midwife. I have seen the the PPE requirements.
It’s been given out in writing. | |
| |
| As for the story about the much lauded Hercules full of PPE from Turkey on 10:48 - May 7 with 2158 views | sparks |
| As for the story about the much lauded Hercules full of PPE from Turkey on 10:46 - May 7 by NewcyBlue |
MrsN is a midwife. I have seen the the PPE requirements.
It’s been given out in writing. |
has it been reduced / adapted to meet the supply? | |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
| |
| As for the story about the much lauded Hercules full of PPE from Turkey on 10:52 - May 7 with 2145 views | NewcyBlue |
| As for the story about the much lauded Hercules full of PPE from Turkey on 10:48 - May 7 by sparks |
has it been reduced / adapted to meet the supply? |
The requirements for PPE have been downgraded.
The downgrading and lack of PPE is no coincidence.
It’s daft really, as the information was emailed out to the staff.
I can only think that the sort of people working for the NHS are the sort of people that will put up with this as the patients come first. It’s very poor that frontline staff are even put in that position. | |
| |
| As for the story about the much lauded Hercules full of PPE from Turkey on 11:01 - May 7 with 2096 views | longtimefan |
| As for the story about the much lauded Hercules full of PPE from Turkey on 10:01 - May 7 by NewcyBlue |
“ DHSC had advised No 10 not to allow Jenrick to publicise the shipment in case it backfired, but was overruled.” |
They may well have done so, but that’s somewhat at odds with the endless tweets from DHSC previewing its arrival in the week preceding it. [Post edited 7 May 2020 11:26]
|  | | |
| As for the story about the much lauded Hercules full of PPE from Turkey on 11:05 - May 7 with 2084 views | longtimefan |
I think one of the main takeaways from this is as well as a staggeringly incompetent Government, we also have plenty of incompetence in PHE and the Civil Service. | | | |
| As for the story about the much lauded Hercules full of PPE from Turkey on 11:25 - May 7 with 2046 views | PrideOfTheEast |
| As for the story about the much lauded Hercules full of PPE from Turkey on 11:05 - May 7 by longtimefan |
I think one of the main takeaways from this is as well as a staggeringly incompetent Government, we also have plenty of incompetence in PHE and the Civil Service. |
Agreed but hardly surprising? | | | |
| As for the story about the much lauded Hercules full of PPE from Turkey on 11:29 - May 7 with 2027 views | artsbossbeard |
| As for the story about the much lauded Hercules full of PPE from Turkey on 09:15 - May 7 by Lord_Lucan |
Sorry but I take a different view on this.
The government is going to have to be examined after all of this and learn from mistakes and take criticism for mistakes made but ..........................
You have a worldwide shortage of PPE and normal supply chains of preferred suppliers cannot cope or deliver. The media are bombarding the government over the lack of PPE and there are newspaper reports (repeated on here) of how this bloke and that bloke can source one million ventilators and 10 million masks and all that sort of waffle. So government bods are scrambling everywhere to buy what they can.
Before you get anywhere you have to produce necessary CE certificates and batch reports. So basically the Turkish firm will have misreported on the tests.
Even when the stock comes in with all the correct documentation it has to be batch tested by our people - probably HSL.
So it didn't pass tests and is scrapped but you cannot test it until it gets here. Even if they sent samples and these passed it doesn't mean that the main shipment will pass.
Countries all over Europe have been sending dodgy kit back all over the place and quite rightly so, if it fails tests it cannot be used.
The fault is with the Turks
This is what a simple gown has to pass.
6. Lot 4 — Gowns
6.1. This lot is for gowns and includes:
â— Sterile gowns.
â— Non-sterile gowns — sometimes referred to as Isolation gowns.
â— Thumb-looped aprons.
6.2. Standards/Directives/Legislative requirements
STANDARD / CERTIFICATION
BS EN 13795:2019 or equivalent standard
Surgical drapes, gowns and clean air suits, used as medical devices for patients,
clinical staff and equipment. General requirements for manufacturers, processors
and products, test methods, performance requirements and performance levels.
BS EN11810:2015. Must be fire resistant/ tested for laser ignition and
penetration
6.3. Sterile single use surgical gowns used to cover the wearer whilst in an operating
theatre or environment which requires a sterile covering in such a way as to prevent
exposure to potentially contaminated fluids, including those which may contain
pathogens as well as helping to prevent the wearer from contaminating the clean
surgical site.
6.4. Products in this Lot include:
â— Sterile single use Standard Lite gown.
â— Sterile single use standard gown.
â— Sterile Single use Standard High-Performance gown.
Type of gown Hydrostatic pressure Guidance for use/
comments
Standard Lite >20cm H 2 O Minimal pressure as
stated in standard
EN13795: 2019
Standard >50cm H 2 O Minimal exposure to fluids
Standard High
performance
>100cm H 2 O Potential risk of low levels
of fluids for a limited
period in all areas
6.4.1. All products in this Lot must comply with the following:
â— Must be supplied sterile;
â— Must be single use;
â— Must be latex free;
â— Must be individually packaged;
â— Must contain within the packaging a sterile field to open the gown onto.
â— Must be folded with the inside facing outward and the collar visible, the wearer
must be able to don the gown without touching the patient facing side;
â— Contain 2 absorbent hand towels placed on the top of the gown upon opening
with a minimum size of 30cm by 40cm;
â— Be anti-static;
â— Tie lengths on the inside of the gown must be between 35cm and 50cm (+/-
10%);
8
â— Tie lengths on the outside of the gown must be between 35cm and 75cm (+/-
10%) to prevent them touching the floor when being worn; and
â— Must be available in sizes S, M, L, XL as a minimum.
6.5. Non-Sterile Gowns or Isolation gowns are used for procedures that do not require a
sterile product. They are required where the users need a degree of comfort and
protection with low risk of fluid where simple plastic aprons do not offer enough
coverage or protection. Non-Sterile Gowns are mainly used in Barrier nursing in
preventing the spread of infection from one person to another in hospital and for
minor procedures within the hospital or community setting.
6.5.1. Products in this lot include:
â— Fluid resistant isolation gown -low.
â— Fluid resistant gown - medium.
â— Impervious isolation gown.
Type of gown Hydrostatic pressure Guidance for use/
comments
Fluid resistant
isolation gown
>20cm H 2 O — 28.4cm H 2 O Low exposure to fluids
Fluid resistant
isolation gown
>57.3cm H 2 O Medium exposure to fluids
Impervious Isolation
gown
>91cm H 2 O High exposure to fluids
6.5.2. All products in this Lot must comply with the following:
â— Must be single use;
â— Must be latex free;
â— Be anti-static;
â— Must be low linting;
â— Be fire resistant;
â— Cuffs must be knitted and attached to the gown via overlock stitching;
â— Seams to be welded;
â— Tie lengths on the inside of the gown must be between 35cm and 50 cm
(+/-10%);
â— Tie lengths on the outside of the gown must be between 35cm and 75cm
(+/-10%) to prevent them touching the floor when being worn; and
â— Must be available in sizes M, L, XL, XXL as a minimum.
6.6. Thumb looped aprons are used for tasks where fully impervious non-sterile protection
is needed.
6.6.1. All products in this Lot must comply with the following:
â— The thumb loop apron is a length to give the wearer protection (below knee but
above the ankle);
â— The thumb looped apron sleeves are long enough to ensure the arms are fully
covered; and
â— The thumb looped apron has ties to secure the apron securely around the body. [Post edited 7 May 2020 9:16]
|
Quick loaded question for you LL.
Does PPE have a shelf life, and as an example, if this PPE was purchased in 2016 to follow the virus planning exercise recommendations, would it still be usable now? |  |
| Please note: prior to hitting the post button, I've double checked for anything that could be construed as "Anti Semitic" and to the best of my knowledge it isn't. Anything deemed to be of a Xenophobic nature is therefore purely accidental or down to your own misconstruing. | | Poll: | Raining in IP8 - shall I get the washing in? |
| |
| As for the story about the much lauded Hercules full of PPE from Turkey on 11:32 - May 7 with 2019 views | Tommyparker |
Mehmet Duzen, spokesman for Selegna Tekstill, told the BBC the company had not received any complaint about the goods, or had any communication from the NHS, the British embassy in Ankara, or British government officials complaining about the quality of the gowns.
" The fabric was supplied was certified. All the goods were certified, if there was any problem they could do an inspection and send us a report," Duzan said.
He added that the NHS had been in contact with him as recently as Wednesday and was no mention of any problem with the goods.
As a company, Selegna Tekstill were ready to respond in a professional way if there was any mistake, he said. | | | |
| As for the story about the much lauded Hercules full of PPE from Turkey on 11:33 - May 7 with 2015 views | m14_blue |
| As for the story about the much lauded Hercules full of PPE from Turkey on 09:15 - May 7 by Lord_Lucan |
Sorry but I take a different view on this.
The government is going to have to be examined after all of this and learn from mistakes and take criticism for mistakes made but ..........................
You have a worldwide shortage of PPE and normal supply chains of preferred suppliers cannot cope or deliver. The media are bombarding the government over the lack of PPE and there are newspaper reports (repeated on here) of how this bloke and that bloke can source one million ventilators and 10 million masks and all that sort of waffle. So government bods are scrambling everywhere to buy what they can.
Before you get anywhere you have to produce necessary CE certificates and batch reports. So basically the Turkish firm will have misreported on the tests.
Even when the stock comes in with all the correct documentation it has to be batch tested by our people - probably HSL.
So it didn't pass tests and is scrapped but you cannot test it until it gets here. Even if they sent samples and these passed it doesn't mean that the main shipment will pass.
Countries all over Europe have been sending dodgy kit back all over the place and quite rightly so, if it fails tests it cannot be used.
The fault is with the Turks
This is what a simple gown has to pass.
6. Lot 4 — Gowns
6.1. This lot is for gowns and includes:
â— Sterile gowns.
â— Non-sterile gowns — sometimes referred to as Isolation gowns.
â— Thumb-looped aprons.
6.2. Standards/Directives/Legislative requirements
STANDARD / CERTIFICATION
BS EN 13795:2019 or equivalent standard
Surgical drapes, gowns and clean air suits, used as medical devices for patients,
clinical staff and equipment. General requirements for manufacturers, processors
and products, test methods, performance requirements and performance levels.
BS EN11810:2015. Must be fire resistant/ tested for laser ignition and
penetration
6.3. Sterile single use surgical gowns used to cover the wearer whilst in an operating
theatre or environment which requires a sterile covering in such a way as to prevent
exposure to potentially contaminated fluids, including those which may contain
pathogens as well as helping to prevent the wearer from contaminating the clean
surgical site.
6.4. Products in this Lot include:
â— Sterile single use Standard Lite gown.
â— Sterile single use standard gown.
â— Sterile Single use Standard High-Performance gown.
Type of gown Hydrostatic pressure Guidance for use/
comments
Standard Lite >20cm H 2 O Minimal pressure as
stated in standard
EN13795: 2019
Standard >50cm H 2 O Minimal exposure to fluids
Standard High
performance
>100cm H 2 O Potential risk of low levels
of fluids for a limited
period in all areas
6.4.1. All products in this Lot must comply with the following:
â— Must be supplied sterile;
â— Must be single use;
â— Must be latex free;
â— Must be individually packaged;
â— Must contain within the packaging a sterile field to open the gown onto.
â— Must be folded with the inside facing outward and the collar visible, the wearer
must be able to don the gown without touching the patient facing side;
â— Contain 2 absorbent hand towels placed on the top of the gown upon opening
with a minimum size of 30cm by 40cm;
â— Be anti-static;
â— Tie lengths on the inside of the gown must be between 35cm and 50cm (+/-
10%);
8
â— Tie lengths on the outside of the gown must be between 35cm and 75cm (+/-
10%) to prevent them touching the floor when being worn; and
â— Must be available in sizes S, M, L, XL as a minimum.
6.5. Non-Sterile Gowns or Isolation gowns are used for procedures that do not require a
sterile product. They are required where the users need a degree of comfort and
protection with low risk of fluid where simple plastic aprons do not offer enough
coverage or protection. Non-Sterile Gowns are mainly used in Barrier nursing in
preventing the spread of infection from one person to another in hospital and for
minor procedures within the hospital or community setting.
6.5.1. Products in this lot include:
â— Fluid resistant isolation gown -low.
â— Fluid resistant gown - medium.
â— Impervious isolation gown.
Type of gown Hydrostatic pressure Guidance for use/
comments
Fluid resistant
isolation gown
>20cm H 2 O — 28.4cm H 2 O Low exposure to fluids
Fluid resistant
isolation gown
>57.3cm H 2 O Medium exposure to fluids
Impervious Isolation
gown
>91cm H 2 O High exposure to fluids
6.5.2. All products in this Lot must comply with the following:
â— Must be single use;
â— Must be latex free;
â— Be anti-static;
â— Must be low linting;
â— Be fire resistant;
â— Cuffs must be knitted and attached to the gown via overlock stitching;
â— Seams to be welded;
â— Tie lengths on the inside of the gown must be between 35cm and 50 cm
(+/-10%);
â— Tie lengths on the outside of the gown must be between 35cm and 75cm
(+/-10%) to prevent them touching the floor when being worn; and
â— Must be available in sizes M, L, XL, XXL as a minimum.
6.6. Thumb looped aprons are used for tasks where fully impervious non-sterile protection
is needed.
6.6.1. All products in this Lot must comply with the following:
â— The thumb loop apron is a length to give the wearer protection (below knee but
above the ankle);
â— The thumb looped apron sleeves are long enough to ensure the arms are fully
covered; and
â— The thumb looped apron has ties to secure the apron securely around the body. [Post edited 7 May 2020 9:16]
|
But surely if we’re getting the RAF to fly some PPE over, and making a huge song and dance about it, it would have been a good idea to do the checks first.
I think everyone’s got your point that PPE is hard to get hold of but the constant fudging, lying and mixed messages being sent out, whilst front line workers continue to die, mean my willingness to cut them some slack diminishes every day. | | | |
| As for the story about the much lauded Hercules full of PPE from Turkey on 11:34 - May 7 with 2010 views | Lord_Lucan |
| As for the story about the much lauded Hercules full of PPE from Turkey on 11:29 - May 7 by artsbossbeard |
Quick loaded question for you LL.
Does PPE have a shelf life, and as an example, if this PPE was purchased in 2016 to follow the virus planning exercise recommendations, would it still be usable now? |
Shelf life is normally 2 - 3 years but that may vary on type of PPE | |
| |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
