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Is playing for the Lions seen as a greater honour for Union players than playing for their countries? Can players say no to the Lions if they want to recuperate in the summer?
Also, why don’t England pick players who play in France?
Thanks.
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Question for Rugby Union fans on 08:11 - Mar 24 with 1539 views
Yes.... because in British terms that shows you are the v best.
I believe the France thing is due to releases for international games but I think it might (someone correct me if I'm wrong) be any players outside England/Scotland/Wales league for the same reasons
Not sure it's a greater honour than playing for their county, but certainly equal to it. And the selection is obviously stiffer, so perhaps a bigger achievement to make the cut.
The France thing came in a few years ago. There was talk at the time of showing commitment to English rugby. However, I think it had more to do with the French clubs being less willing to release players for international duty, such as training camps.
Not sure anyone has played for the Lions and not for their country, so difficult to compare one against the other.
But as there are far fewer Lions players and the tours are pretty unique experiences by all accounts, I’d say Lions is a bigger deal in the end. However anyone lucky enough to play in the latter stages of the World Cup for their country could possibly disagree.
England want all the players in the Premiership – all part of the players, clubs and the RFU sharing the pot of money and the responsibilities that go with it.
Pronouns: He/Him
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Question for Rugby Union fans on 08:47 - Mar 24 with 1454 views
It's seen as the pinnacle and an honor in Rugby terms, going to the southern hemisphere to try and win a 3 match test series with a team of guys that have never played together is the magic. Which is why scarce wins are so revered, read up on the 74 Lions tour and the call of 99, quite hilarious.
Question for Rugby Union fans on 08:16 - Mar 24 by Darth_Koont
Not sure anyone has played for the Lions and not for their country, so difficult to compare one against the other.
But as there are far fewer Lions players and the tours are pretty unique experiences by all accounts, I’d say Lions is a bigger deal in the end. However anyone lucky enough to play in the latter stages of the World Cup for their country could possibly disagree.
England want all the players in the Premiership – all part of the players, clubs and the RFU sharing the pot of money and the responsibilities that go with it.
Will Greenwood played for the Lions before he got his first England Cap.
Question for Rugby Union fans on 08:16 - Mar 24 by Darth_Koont
Not sure anyone has played for the Lions and not for their country, so difficult to compare one against the other.
But as there are far fewer Lions players and the tours are pretty unique experiences by all accounts, I’d say Lions is a bigger deal in the end. However anyone lucky enough to play in the latter stages of the World Cup for their country could possibly disagree.
England want all the players in the Premiership – all part of the players, clubs and the RFU sharing the pot of money and the responsibilities that go with it.
In theory can an English player, who is playing in France, be picked for the Lions but still not considered at all for England?
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Question for Rugby Union fans on 08:53 - Mar 24 with 1437 views
Question for Rugby Union fans on 08:53 - Mar 24 by Darth_Koont
Yeah, I thought there was someone like that. But doubt he would have swapped the Lions for playing for England if it came down to it.
Agreed, I think it he was coming off a great season and we were well stocked at the time at national level, think it was more to do with timing, rather than being an omission.
Question for Rugby Union fans on 08:52 - Mar 24 by MattinLondon
In theory can an English player, who is playing in France, be picked for the Lions but still not considered at all for England?
I think the reasons why it's been difficult to pick players playing in France is because their season ends later, and most British/Irish players are playing for teams that have been in the latter stages of various competitions, obviously the clubs have been reluctant to release them at the nitty gritty tail end of the season.
Question for Rugby Union fans on 08:58 - Mar 24 by N2_Blue
Yes and because historically it also probably the greatest touring competition in world sport and also has many things that is unique about it.
The lions may happen every 4 yeas, but for the host (Auz, NZ, SA) it's once every 12 years which makes it very special.
No player would ever say no, if they did they wouldn't be playing rugby in the first place!
And yes, the Lions coach can pick any British or Irish player, irrespective of where they play and if they are an international or not.
[Post edited 24 Mar 2021 9:01]
I think it also worth noting how much of a thing it for players from SA, Aus and NZ to play against a Lions team as for them it is very much a 'once in a career' opportunity
Question for Rugby Union fans on 08:59 - Mar 24 by Darth_Koont
Possibly. But the Lions are supported by the home unions so you’d expect their rules to apply for their players.
Is it an issue this time around? I’ve not got much idea of potential England players in France.
To be honest I don’t know. Ever since reading an article once which mentioned that Armitage (I think that was the name) was one of the best players in the world but still not selected for England. I wondered why that was the case but never really investigated.
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Question for Rugby Union fans on 09:08 - Mar 24 with 1374 views
Question for Rugby Union fans on 09:03 - Mar 24 by MattinLondon
To be honest I don’t know. Ever since reading an article once which mentioned that Armitage (I think that was the name) was one of the best players in the world but still not selected for England. I wondered why that was the case but never really investigated.
I think there was a element of just not wanting the best players to play away from England which is a tad ironic/hypocritical when you think of how many 'non-English players end up playing for England.
oh yes I know Ireland, Wales, Scotland do the same but doesnt every South African, Aussie, New Zealander or Tongan have a Celtic grandmother
In the amateur days, getting selected for the Lions was rightly seen as a huge achievement & a recognition that you were an outstanding player. Once the Rugby World Cup arrived, everything changed & I think that naturally became the pinnacle. Before then, it was prestigious to play & maybe beat one of the big Southern hemisphere nations, especially New Zealand as these games didn't come around so often. These were usually one-off "Tests" at home, but England did often do a summer tour. Since the World Cup & professionalism, I think the Lions has been hugely downgraded in status. They also take far larger squads these days - used to be around 34, now up into the mid 40s despite a huge reduction in the number of games so the distinction isn't quite what it was. The Lions is an anachronism in the modern world of professional rugby, but the tours are popular with the Southern hemisphere nations as they attract large numbers of big spending tourists so I guess they will continue & it's nice to see Celtic hostilities put to one side for a few weeks & the home nations uniting for a common cause.
Question for Rugby Union fans on 08:47 - Mar 24 by hype313
It's seen as the pinnacle and an honor in Rugby terms, going to the southern hemisphere to try and win a 3 match test series with a team of guys that have never played together is the magic. Which is why scarce wins are so revered, read up on the 74 Lions tour and the call of 99, quite hilarious.
Sadly the tours are shorter these days - but I think most who have been involved consider it to be the pinnacle of their career. Listen to Willie John McBride and try not to find a speck of dust in the old eye. It's a shame the modern game can't allow proper tours here - The North of England and Llanelli beating the All Blacks.
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Question for Rugby Union fans on 11:52 - Mar 24 with 1262 views
Question for Rugby Union fans on 08:52 - Mar 24 by MattinLondon
In theory can an English player, who is playing in France, be picked for the Lions but still not considered at all for England?
Yes, Matt Stevens was playing in South Africa when he played for Lions, and Shane Williams was in Japan when he was controversially called up. Traditionally , a Lions squad would always include ‘a bolter’ who was a player who was uncapped by their country - but this has died down since the advent of professionalism, partly as there are now more internationals. The closet we may see this summer is likely to be Sam Simmonds, who hasn’t been capped since 2018 and is absolutely ripping up the premiership. Why Eddie Jones doesn’t pick him in his squads is an entirely different question... the uncapped tradition is still alive and well in the Barbarians.
To answer the original question, the Lions is the ultimate. 2003 World Cup winners who have been involved in Lions say it is the highlight of the careers - as do many opposition players. As far as I know, only one player has ever turned down the chance to tour (in the modern era anyway), and that was Ben Youngs due to a family member having being diagnosed with cancer).
It would be rude to talk about the Lions without sharing this
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Question for Rugby Union fans on 12:51 - Mar 24 with 1236 views
Question for Rugby Union fans on 11:52 - Mar 24 by yorkshireblue
Yes, Matt Stevens was playing in South Africa when he played for Lions, and Shane Williams was in Japan when he was controversially called up. Traditionally , a Lions squad would always include ‘a bolter’ who was a player who was uncapped by their country - but this has died down since the advent of professionalism, partly as there are now more internationals. The closet we may see this summer is likely to be Sam Simmonds, who hasn’t been capped since 2018 and is absolutely ripping up the premiership. Why Eddie Jones doesn’t pick him in his squads is an entirely different question... the uncapped tradition is still alive and well in the Barbarians.
To answer the original question, the Lions is the ultimate. 2003 World Cup winners who have been involved in Lions say it is the highlight of the careers - as do many opposition players. As far as I know, only one player has ever turned down the chance to tour (in the modern era anyway), and that was Ben Youngs due to a family member having being diagnosed with cancer).
It would be rude to talk about the Lions without sharing this
I thought the tradition of picking one uncapped player was a Barbarians thing, rather than the Lions. I love the way they still wear their club socks, although they are another relic of the amateur era.
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