| Crazy temperatures hitting Canada 16:09 - Jun 30 with 3246 views | StokieBlue |
It hit 49.6C in Lytton yesterday, a small town about 150m NE of Vancouver. That was nearly 5C higher than the historically highest temperature ever recorded in Canada and there is a chance it could hit 50C today.
Records are usually beaten by a fraction of a degree, to have them beaten by 5C is almost unheard of.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-57654133
Most homes there don't have AC and it seems that climate change it hitting in unpredictable and unprepared locations and it's taking it's toll on people. Unfortunately it's likely to get worse before it stabilises (assuming the world gets it's act together and it does stabilise).
SB
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| Crazy temperatures hitting Canada on 19:04 - Jun 30 with 1549 views | NthQldITFC |
Do you have any handle on whether this is just a particularly bad example of a heat dome, or whether its a phase shift into some new kind of system, new for that region maybe? As you say its a massive jump for a temperature record. I think either James Lovelock or Tim Flannery talk about gateway years where you get 'permanent' shifts in climate resulting in different weather patterns suddenly becoming the new norm.
I seem to remember an old sci-fi film or TV series called Twisters or something, where out of the blue ice tornados were springing up everywhere! Might have to see if I can find that again. |  |
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| Crazy temperatures hitting Canada on 19:28 - Jun 30 with 1502 views | EdwardStone |
The point about AirCon is pertinent
Does the World have sufficient elec generating capacity or even freon gas to cope with a gigantic surge in demand for AC? |  | | |
| Crazy temperatures hitting Canada on 19:59 - Jun 30 with 1472 views | Canadafan |
The heat dome is supposed to be moving east to us- was 38C last week which we have seen in the past but we don't usually see >40C. Most houses in Ontario have A/C due to the high humidity in hot weather. Actually this variety in weather is one reason I like living here- ranges from -30C to 30C from winter to summer. I much prefer the cold to the heat. |  | | |
| Crazy temperatures hitting Canada on 20:43 - Jun 30 with 1433 views | Geomorph |
| Crazy temperatures hitting Canada on 19:59 - Jun 30 by Canadafan |
The heat dome is supposed to be moving east to us- was 38C last week which we have seen in the past but we don't usually see >40C. Most houses in Ontario have A/C due to the high humidity in hot weather. Actually this variety in weather is one reason I like living here- ranges from -30C to 30C from winter to summer. I much prefer the cold to the heat. |
The warming trend is variable across the planet in both space and time but massive positive temp anomalies like this have been a feature of places like Siberia and Antarctica over recent decades. Uk and North Atlantic by contrast seems stuck in a neutral phase this year I think |  | | |
| Crazy temperatures hitting Canada on 21:00 - Jun 30 with 1409 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
Previous record was set 85 years ago I believe....surprised it has taken so long. |  |
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| Crazy temperatures hitting Canada on 09:56 - Jul 1 with 1233 views | 26_Paz |
If stuff like this doesn’t wake people up to the wider sustainability agenda then nothing will. |  |
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| Crazy temperatures hitting Canada on 22:52 - Jul 2 with 1133 views | StokieBlue |
| Crazy temperatures hitting Canada on 19:04 - Jun 30 by NthQldITFC |
Do you have any handle on whether this is just a particularly bad example of a heat dome, or whether its a phase shift into some new kind of system, new for that region maybe? As you say its a massive jump for a temperature record. I think either James Lovelock or Tim Flannery talk about gateway years where you get 'permanent' shifts in climate resulting in different weather patterns suddenly becoming the new norm.
I seem to remember an old sci-fi film or TV series called Twisters or something, where out of the blue ice tornados were springing up everywhere! Might have to see if I can find that again. |
So some more information has come out on this today.
This specific instance was a heat dome but one which was completely outside what the climate models are predicting even in the worse-case. There are some theories on why this is happening in northern latitudes but no agreement yet and no new models.
It's all rather worrying as it seems it's highly likely that this could become the new norm rather than a couple of times every three decades.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/jul/02/canadian-inferno-northern-he
SB | |
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| Crazy temperatures hitting Canada on 23:08 - Jul 2 with 1111 views | NthQldITFC |
| Crazy temperatures hitting Canada on 22:52 - Jul 2 by StokieBlue |
So some more information has come out on this today.
This specific instance was a heat dome but one which was completely outside what the climate models are predicting even in the worse-case. There are some theories on why this is happening in northern latitudes but no agreement yet and no new models.
It's all rather worrying as it seems it's highly likely that this could become the new norm rather than a couple of times every three decades.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/jul/02/canadian-inferno-northern-he
SB |
'Shocked climate scientists are wondering how even worst-case scenarios failed to predict such furnace-like conditions so far north.'
What makes this even more disturbing is that there are vast quantities of methane trapped in permafrost in Northern latitudes, and I guess events like this could trigger absolutely catastrophic and very rapid positive feedback consequences if they happened a bit further north. Not sure what kind of latitudes that permafrost starts at though. | |
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| Crazy temperatures hitting Canada on 23:14 - Jul 2 with 1104 views | unstableblue |
Working on a project in Seattle currently (remotely) and had a web con yesterday, including people from Vancouver.
That area is pretty mild and damp even in the summer.
As a result no air con, and not geared up to it.
A lot of deaths related to the heat.
I’d suggest also the historically high temp in Canada would have been around Toronto, not on the pacific side, so it really is abnormal weather. |  |
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| Crazy temperatures hitting Canada on 23:14 - Jul 2 with 1103 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Crazy temperatures hitting Canada on 22:52 - Jul 2 by StokieBlue |
So some more information has come out on this today.
This specific instance was a heat dome but one which was completely outside what the climate models are predicting even in the worse-case. There are some theories on why this is happening in northern latitudes but no agreement yet and no new models.
It's all rather worrying as it seems it's highly likely that this could become the new norm rather than a couple of times every three decades.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/jul/02/canadian-inferno-northern-he
SB |
It is a shame that more people weren't thinking about more harmonious ways of living/different economic models before prompted by self interest. Even now some want to maintain status quo type thinking by promoting space travel and asteroid mining....thoroughly depressing. | |
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| Crazy temperatures hitting Canada on 23:18 - Jul 2 with 1095 views | StokieBlue |
| Crazy temperatures hitting Canada on 23:14 - Jul 2 by BanksterDebtSlave |
It is a shame that more people weren't thinking about more harmonious ways of living/different economic models before prompted by self interest. Even now some want to maintain status quo type thinking by promoting space travel and asteroid mining....thoroughly depressing. |
Ah, are we back to this one?
Space travel is a very worthwhile endeavour for humanity through which a lot is discovered and progress is made. The fact you don't like it is pretty irrelevant. As for asteroid mining, it's entirely sensible.
If you can capture and tow back one asteroid and that is then the equivalent to all the mines on the planet for that mineral then suddenly that element is available to more people and the mines on the surface which destroy the environment and pollute the atmosphere can close.
Nice that you decided to bring these two things up again when the actual issues in the article are important. It seems like lately all your posts are directed at points scoring or contrarianism.
What's going on?
SB | |
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| Crazy temperatures hitting Canada on 23:22 - Jul 2 with 1087 views | StokieBlue |
| Crazy temperatures hitting Canada on 23:08 - Jul 2 by NthQldITFC |
'Shocked climate scientists are wondering how even worst-case scenarios failed to predict such furnace-like conditions so far north.'
What makes this even more disturbing is that there are vast quantities of methane trapped in permafrost in Northern latitudes, and I guess events like this could trigger absolutely catastrophic and very rapid positive feedback consequences if they happened a bit further north. Not sure what kind of latitudes that permafrost starts at though. |
So Lytton is 50N and it seems most permafrost is between 60N and 68N.
As you highlight though, once a feedback loop is started it becomes almost impossible to stop, it would be awful. It's also very hot in Siberia at the moment so it's not hugely isolated (although obviously nothing like 50C).
SB | |
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| Crazy temperatures hitting Canada on 23:24 - Jul 2 with 1084 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Crazy temperatures hitting Canada on 23:18 - Jul 2 by StokieBlue |
Ah, are we back to this one?
Space travel is a very worthwhile endeavour for humanity through which a lot is discovered and progress is made. The fact you don't like it is pretty irrelevant. As for asteroid mining, it's entirely sensible.
If you can capture and tow back one asteroid and that is then the equivalent to all the mines on the planet for that mineral then suddenly that element is available to more people and the mines on the surface which destroy the environment and pollute the atmosphere can close.
Nice that you decided to bring these two things up again when the actual issues in the article are important. It seems like lately all your posts are directed at points scoring or contrarianism.
What's going on?
SB |
Exactly the mode of thinking that got us in to the current mess....I understand that would be uncomfortable to acknowledge. One persons 'progress' is anothers ecocide.
Whatever is going on has been going on my whole life...I guess some of us find it hard to make sense out of madness. | |
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| Crazy temperatures hitting Canada on 23:26 - Jul 2 with 1076 views | StokieBlue |
| Crazy temperatures hitting Canada on 23:24 - Jul 2 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Exactly the mode of thinking that got us in to the current mess....I understand that would be uncomfortable to acknowledge. One persons 'progress' is anothers ecocide.
Whatever is going on has been going on my whole life...I guess some of us find it hard to make sense out of madness. |
I don't even know what you're trying to say.
SB [Post edited 2 Jul 2021 23:28]
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| Crazy temperatures hitting Canada on 23:31 - Jul 2 with 1054 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Crazy temperatures hitting Canada on 23:26 - Jul 2 by StokieBlue |
I don't even know what you're trying to say.
SB [Post edited 2 Jul 2021 23:28]
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That has been obvious for some time. | |
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| Crazy temperatures hitting Canada on 23:36 - Jul 2 with 1048 views | StokieBlue |
| Crazy temperatures hitting Canada on 23:31 - Jul 2 by BanksterDebtSlave |
That has been obvious for some time. |
I don't think you know what you're trying to say either.
SB | |
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| Crazy temperatures hitting Canada on 08:37 - Jul 3 with 966 views | NthQldITFC |
| Crazy temperatures hitting Canada on 23:22 - Jul 2 by StokieBlue |
So Lytton is 50N and it seems most permafrost is between 60N and 68N.
As you highlight though, once a feedback loop is started it becomes almost impossible to stop, it would be awful. It's also very hot in Siberia at the moment so it's not hugely isolated (although obviously nothing like 50C).
SB |
Thanks for that info, I did try to look it up last night but got sidetracked by football! There have of course been ongoing fires in Siberia recently https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/science-environment-54126762.
It's always dangerous to jump to conclusions based on linear changes in climate matters, but it would be hard to imagine that a significant jump like this at 50N would not be reflected in some way 10 or 20 degrees further north.
It's the inevitable uncertainty coupled with the potential severity that hopefully hits home with more and more people, corporations and governments, and makes some genuine difference to worldwide policy on energy use, deforestation and population. And it will have to be bloody soon imho. | |
| # WE ARE STEALING THE FUTURE FROM OUR CHILDREN --- WE MUST CHANGE COURSE # | | Poll: | It's driving me nuts |
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| Crazy temperatures hitting Canada on 08:51 - Jul 3 with 955 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Crazy temperatures hitting Canada on 08:37 - Jul 3 by NthQldITFC |
Thanks for that info, I did try to look it up last night but got sidetracked by football! There have of course been ongoing fires in Siberia recently https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/science-environment-54126762.
It's always dangerous to jump to conclusions based on linear changes in climate matters, but it would be hard to imagine that a significant jump like this at 50N would not be reflected in some way 10 or 20 degrees further north.
It's the inevitable uncertainty coupled with the potential severity that hopefully hits home with more and more people, corporations and governments, and makes some genuine difference to worldwide policy on energy use, deforestation and population. And it will have to be bloody soon imho. |
About 50 to 60 years ago would have been good. Unfortunately a lot of well educated people chose to ignore the blindingly obvious as there was wealth to be extracted and stuff to buy and sell. The cohort alongside whom I was in further education with in the early 80's were perhaps the most odious of selfish individuals driven almost entirely by personal greed. Many of these same people are now shedding crocodile tears over and hand wringing over climate change while still enjoying the fruits of their selfishness...the young Conservatives of that generation, a particularly odious subset are now running the show....we're f^cked ! | |
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| Crazy temperatures hitting Canada on 08:54 - Jul 3 with 950 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Crazy temperatures hitting Canada on 23:18 - Jul 2 by StokieBlue |
Ah, are we back to this one?
Space travel is a very worthwhile endeavour for humanity through which a lot is discovered and progress is made. The fact you don't like it is pretty irrelevant. As for asteroid mining, it's entirely sensible.
If you can capture and tow back one asteroid and that is then the equivalent to all the mines on the planet for that mineral then suddenly that element is available to more people and the mines on the surface which destroy the environment and pollute the atmosphere can close.
Nice that you decided to bring these two things up again when the actual issues in the article are important. It seems like lately all your posts are directed at points scoring or contrarianism.
What's going on?
SB |
"If you can capture and tow back one asteroid and that is then the equivalent to all the mines on the planet for that mineral then suddenly that element is available to more people and the mines on the surface which destroy the environment and pollute the atmosphere can close."
If you really think this is the answer then we are already living on different planets Stokie! | |
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| Crazy temperatures hitting Canada on 08:57 - Jul 3 with 947 views | StokieBlue |
| Crazy temperatures hitting Canada on 08:54 - Jul 3 by BanksterDebtSlave |
"If you can capture and tow back one asteroid and that is then the equivalent to all the mines on the planet for that mineral then suddenly that element is available to more people and the mines on the surface which destroy the environment and pollute the atmosphere can close."
If you really think this is the answer then we are already living on different planets Stokie! |
It's definitely a possible solution.
Why don't you outline why it's such a bad idea?
Like it or not we need resources and you are using them just like everyone else. How many resources were involved in your posting that reply?
Think of the whole chain from your computer, through the networks, the mines needed to make the infrastructure, the electricity generation etc.
You tend to oversimplify everything in my opinion.
SB [Post edited 3 Jul 2021 9:05]
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| Crazy temperatures hitting Canada on 09:09 - Jul 3 with 922 views | bluelagos |
| Crazy temperatures hitting Canada on 08:57 - Jul 3 by StokieBlue |
It's definitely a possible solution.
Why don't you outline why it's such a bad idea?
Like it or not we need resources and you are using them just like everyone else. How many resources were involved in your posting that reply?
Think of the whole chain from your computer, through the networks, the mines needed to make the infrastructure, the electricity generation etc.
You tend to oversimplify everything in my opinion.
SB [Post edited 3 Jul 2021 9:05]
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Morning Stokie/Bankster
I think there is a debate to be had, especially over our endless persuit of wealth / and of "things" and the impact on the environment. The whole capitalist model driven by fashion/consumerism and made worse by our throwaway culture.
Minimalism is a whole different way of looking at how we live our lives with way less impact on the environment. Have read a little bit on it and is an interesting alternative, though whether it works if everyone adopts it I don't know. (Could we even feed ourselves without mass farming?)
Whether Science can get us out of our current hole, don't know enough about it tbh. Science/Space etc may have may some theoretical and real solutions, but I guess the question is whether they can actually be delivered and delivered in time? |  |
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| Crazy temperatures hitting Canada on 09:14 - Jul 3 with 910 views | chicoazul |
| Crazy temperatures hitting Canada on 09:09 - Jul 3 by bluelagos |
Morning Stokie/Bankster
I think there is a debate to be had, especially over our endless persuit of wealth / and of "things" and the impact on the environment. The whole capitalist model driven by fashion/consumerism and made worse by our throwaway culture.
Minimalism is a whole different way of looking at how we live our lives with way less impact on the environment. Have read a little bit on it and is an interesting alternative, though whether it works if everyone adopts it I don't know. (Could we even feed ourselves without mass farming?)
Whether Science can get us out of our current hole, don't know enough about it tbh. Science/Space etc may have may some theoretical and real solutions, but I guess the question is whether they can actually be delivered and delivered in time? |
As far as I can tell “minimalism” just means subscribing to Netflix instead of buying lots of DVDs and owning two coats. |  |
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| Crazy temperatures hitting Canada on 09:17 - Jul 3 with 904 views | StokieBlue |
| Crazy temperatures hitting Canada on 09:09 - Jul 3 by bluelagos |
Morning Stokie/Bankster
I think there is a debate to be had, especially over our endless persuit of wealth / and of "things" and the impact on the environment. The whole capitalist model driven by fashion/consumerism and made worse by our throwaway culture.
Minimalism is a whole different way of looking at how we live our lives with way less impact on the environment. Have read a little bit on it and is an interesting alternative, though whether it works if everyone adopts it I don't know. (Could we even feed ourselves without mass farming?)
Whether Science can get us out of our current hole, don't know enough about it tbh. Science/Space etc may have may some theoretical and real solutions, but I guess the question is whether they can actually be delivered and delivered in time? |
The issue is it's not just about people wanting things, simply to run a civilisation of the scale and complexity we have now requires a lot of resources on a continual basis. For instance, all transport and energy generation needs to be replaced with green alternatives and eventually those replacements will need to be replaced.
We couldn't feed the current world population without mass farming, we know this from historical experience where we couldn't feed a smaller population without mass farming. Population itself is an issue though, there are probably too many people for any kind of minimalist model to work.
My actual issue with Banksters posts are that he dismisses and belittles things without actually looking into them or addressing them on merit. Mining asteroids for instance would actually fit with what he wants as it would drastically reduce the impact of resource collection on the Earth itself. Instead we get one liners that are very hard to decipher.
SB | |
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| Crazy temperatures hitting Canada on 09:19 - Jul 3 with 902 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Crazy temperatures hitting Canada on 08:57 - Jul 3 by StokieBlue |
It's definitely a possible solution.
Why don't you outline why it's such a bad idea?
Like it or not we need resources and you are using them just like everyone else. How many resources were involved in your posting that reply?
Think of the whole chain from your computer, through the networks, the mines needed to make the infrastructure, the electricity generation etc.
You tend to oversimplify everything in my opinion.
SB [Post edited 3 Jul 2021 9:05]
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We need an economic and social paradigm shift away from the exponential growth debt-based consumption driven path.
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/12061127-techno-fix
I would happily have a 'resource off' with you Stokie if you like and certainly 99 percent of online activity globally should be for the bin.....it certainly does not represent 'progress!' | |
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| Crazy temperatures hitting Canada on 09:28 - Jul 3 with 886 views | StokieBlue |
| Crazy temperatures hitting Canada on 09:19 - Jul 3 by BanksterDebtSlave |
We need an economic and social paradigm shift away from the exponential growth debt-based consumption driven path.
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/12061127-techno-fix
I would happily have a 'resource off' with you Stokie if you like and certainly 99 percent of online activity globally should be for the bin.....it certainly does not represent 'progress!' |
There are many other books and studies which go against the premise of the book you linked. You cite that book because it agrees with the position you already had. There are also lots of examples of where technology does save us - just look at the rapid development of vaccines over the last year (although you weren't keen on that either).
I don't disagree that exponential growth can't continue indefinitely and needs looking at but that doesn't reduce the need for resources. Even in non-capitalist countries without a debt based model they still use a lot of resources. Housing, infrastructure, transport, energy generation, medicine, agriculture all take resources, you can't just magic that away. Even in a society which uses less resources all the above require the same amount per unit of population unless we get better technology.
This is what I mean by simplification - things are much more complicated than the worldview you portray on here. Resources will always be needed regardless of the economic model or population size and thus if they can be gathered without environmental impact on the Earth then why do you dismiss it so readily? It should fit in nicely with what you want.
SB | |
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