| Interesting article on the history of coups in the USSR on 08:25 - Sep 23 with 1973 views | unbelievablue |
"Of the 139 members and candidate members of the Soviet Union’s Central Committee elected at the 1934 Party Congress, 98 were later arrested and shot at Stalin’s behest."
I like those odds! |  |
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| Interesting article on the history of coups in the USSR on 08:47 - Sep 23 with 1941 views | Churchman |
History is repeating itself?
https://soviethistory.msu.edu/1936-2/the-great-terror/
The key is towards the end of this::
‘Between the second and third show trials, the upper echelons of the Red Army were decimated by arrests and summary executions, and the same fate befell provincial party secretaries, party and state personnel among the national minorities, industrial managers, and other officials.
The process fed upon itself, as the accused under severe physical and psychological pressure from their interrogators, named names and confessed to outlandish crimes. Millions of others became involved in the frenzied search for “enemies of the people.” In addition, the Politbiuro ordered Ezhov on July 3, 1937 to conduct “mass operations” to round up recidivist criminals, ex-kulaks, and other “anti-Soviet elements” who were prosecuted by three-person tribunals.
Ezhov actually established quotas in each district for the number of arrests. His projected totals of 177,500 exiled and 72,950 executed were eventually exceeded’ |  | | |
| Interesting article on the history of coups in the USSR on 08:56 - Sep 23 with 1937 views | hype313 |
The paranoia around the Kremlin must be palpable.
People will be chaining themselves to desks. |  |
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| Interesting article on the history of coups in the USSR on 09:23 - Sep 23 with 1920 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| Interesting article on the history of coups in the USSR on 08:47 - Sep 23 by Churchman |
History is repeating itself?
https://soviethistory.msu.edu/1936-2/the-great-terror/
The key is towards the end of this::
‘Between the second and third show trials, the upper echelons of the Red Army were decimated by arrests and summary executions, and the same fate befell provincial party secretaries, party and state personnel among the national minorities, industrial managers, and other officials.
The process fed upon itself, as the accused under severe physical and psychological pressure from their interrogators, named names and confessed to outlandish crimes. Millions of others became involved in the frenzied search for “enemies of the people.” In addition, the Politbiuro ordered Ezhov on July 3, 1937 to conduct “mass operations” to round up recidivist criminals, ex-kulaks, and other “anti-Soviet elements” who were prosecuted by three-person tribunals.
Ezhov actually established quotas in each district for the number of arrests. His projected totals of 177,500 exiled and 72,950 executed were eventually exceeded’ |
It’s interesting to wonder what direction Russian history would have taken had the Germans not deliberately sent Lenin over in 1917. Could they have become a tolerant, progressive state or did he simply add fuel to the fire.
Russia is a country with som much potential, but seems to have just had a long line of tyrants in charge. |  | | |
| Interesting article on the history of coups in the USSR on 11:02 - Sep 23 with 1896 views | Radlett_blue |
| Interesting article on the history of coups in the USSR on 09:23 - Sep 23 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
It’s interesting to wonder what direction Russian history would have taken had the Germans not deliberately sent Lenin over in 1917. Could they have become a tolerant, progressive state or did he simply add fuel to the fire.
Russia is a country with som much potential, but seems to have just had a long line of tyrants in charge. |
A good question. Given that the people had been shafted by the Tsars for years, no wonder Russia was ripe for revolution. The problem was that they replaced one illegitimate totalitarian regime with another. Russia has never even had a decent stab at democracy so sadly the transition for Communism to the current regime has produced something just as bad. |  |
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| Interesting article on the history of coups in the USSR on 11:18 - Sep 23 with 1878 views | BlueandTruesince82 |
| Interesting article on the history of coups in the USSR on 11:02 - Sep 23 by Radlett_blue |
A good question. Given that the people had been shafted by the Tsars for years, no wonder Russia was ripe for revolution. The problem was that they replaced one illegitimate totalitarian regime with another. Russia has never even had a decent stab at democracy so sadly the transition for Communism to the current regime has produced something just as bad. |
What worries is that were Putin to topple which faction wins out, unbelievably there are some who are more hardline than Putin, they may not have the most numbers but they do have one of tbe loudest voices, supporters in well places positions, esp the military etc and the ambition and ruthlessness to seize control. Given the current climate its probably ideal for them to do all that and control a narrative with powers of state.
These are the people calling for full mobilisation and some who are calling for a nuke everything approach.
Let's hope that more sensible minds rise when the rime comes.
FWIW I can't see what difference wi be made with full mobilisation, this would just be cannon fodder, under trained (even those with some prior military experience will not be battle hardened, will only have done their year or whatever it is of conscription), won't want to fight, won't have the capability or the mentality to be effective and will just bring more losses. Like plugging a hole with a sieve.
But when has logic ever affected Russian thinking? |  |
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| Interesting article on the history of coups in the USSR on 11:29 - Sep 23 with 1865 views | Ryorry |
Can we add to that now please, a history of coups in the UK also?
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| Interesting article on the history of coups in the USSR on 11:35 - Sep 23 with 1851 views | belgablue |
| Interesting article on the history of coups in the USSR on 11:18 - Sep 23 by BlueandTruesince82 |
What worries is that were Putin to topple which faction wins out, unbelievably there are some who are more hardline than Putin, they may not have the most numbers but they do have one of tbe loudest voices, supporters in well places positions, esp the military etc and the ambition and ruthlessness to seize control. Given the current climate its probably ideal for them to do all that and control a narrative with powers of state.
These are the people calling for full mobilisation and some who are calling for a nuke everything approach.
Let's hope that more sensible minds rise when the rime comes.
FWIW I can't see what difference wi be made with full mobilisation, this would just be cannon fodder, under trained (even those with some prior military experience will not be battle hardened, will only have done their year or whatever it is of conscription), won't want to fight, won't have the capability or the mentality to be effective and will just bring more losses. Like plugging a hole with a sieve.
But when has logic ever affected Russian thinking? |
This is something that is very often not considered: Whenever Putin goes, who or what is he replaced with? Could be even worse, as hard as that is to imagine |  |
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| Interesting article on the history of coups in the USSR on 11:46 - Sep 23 with 1842 views | Churchman |
| Interesting article on the history of coups in the USSR on 09:23 - Sep 23 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
It’s interesting to wonder what direction Russian history would have taken had the Germans not deliberately sent Lenin over in 1917. Could they have become a tolerant, progressive state or did he simply add fuel to the fire.
Russia is a country with som much potential, but seems to have just had a long line of tyrants in charge. |
The turbulence has lasted for centuries and beyond. The Romanovs were hardly benign for beginners, before we get to the rest.
Russia appears to a country of states and peoples on a vast scale with shifting borders etc over the centuries. Putin is correct about parts of Ukraine being part of Russia in the past, but that’s as poor an argument as the U.K. wanting parts of France back or the US come to that or the Danes wanting the East of England (Danelaw).
It’s nonsense to mask a territory grab. Bonkers. | | | |
| Interesting article on the history of coups in the USSR on 11:53 - Sep 23 with 1836 views | WeWereZombies |
| Interesting article on the history of coups in the USSR on 09:23 - Sep 23 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
It’s interesting to wonder what direction Russian history would have taken had the Germans not deliberately sent Lenin over in 1917. Could they have become a tolerant, progressive state or did he simply add fuel to the fire.
Russia is a country with som much potential, but seems to have just had a long line of tyrants in charge. |
Whether it was Lenin or Trotsky guiding the revolution the problem was always there from the start, and as the job not too slowly killed Lenin then Stalin did not have to wait too long. |  |
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| Interesting article on the history of coups in the USSR on 12:38 - Sep 23 with 1809 views | WeWereZombies |
Yes an interesting, although in a more questions than answers way, article. I particularly liked:
'The Americans and the Chinese found themselves supporting opposite sides in the 1991 coup attempt. But just as U.S. President George H. W. Bush quietly reconciled himself to continuing his dialogue with the junta (before they spectacularly failed), Beijing quickly backpedaled its support for the military and, in time, pragmatically embraced the radical democrat Yeltsin.'
But I think it is wrong in the assumption that Putin can be toppled anytime soon, which means that the hope of a negotiated settlement of the war in Ukraine is a remote hope and that things are settling in for a long and bitter winter (no doubt the type of winter Putin enjoys the most...in an unhappy way.) My thoughts remain that the best chance of peace talks was earlier in the week when the referendums could have been delayed and seen as a concession to Zelensky, who could have stalled further Ukrainian advances as his concession (and let Edrogan into the spotlight as an Islamist moderator brokering the deal.)
But that is in the past now, Putin has shown that he still has tricks up his sleeve with the mobilisation, the Ukrainians have stuck to their guns (apologies, that did not seem like the worst of puns when I first thought it ) and perhaps they are right to do so given the outrage and disgust that their populace must be feeling on the reports of murder and rape, and Erdogan has drawn back from Putin in light of the mobilisations and referendums.
[edit] I hit 'post' too quickly, I wanted to tie back my thoughts to the quote from the article and say that it will be grimly interesting to see in the coming days, weeks and months which way the United States and China display their affections as the Kremlin either carries out its unpublished intentions or some form of regime change becomes palpably imminent. [Post edited 23 Sep 2022 13:01]
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| Interesting article on the history of coups in the USSR on 13:49 - Sep 23 with 1759 views | Radlett_blue |
| Interesting article on the history of coups in the USSR on 11:35 - Sep 23 by belgablue |
This is something that is very often not considered: Whenever Putin goes, who or what is he replaced with? Could be even worse, as hard as that is to imagine |
Bit like replacing Paul Hurst with Paul Lambert. | |
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| Interesting article on the history of coups in the USSR on 13:51 - Sep 23 with 1754 views | WeWereZombies |
| Interesting article on the history of coups in the USSR on 13:49 - Sep 23 by Radlett_blue |
Bit like replacing Paul Hurst with Paul Lambert. |
I think they are more likely to go for a Roy Keane type of manager myself... | |
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| Interesting article on the history of coups in the USSR on 17:11 - Sep 23 with 1661 views | Kropotkin123 |
| Interesting article on the history of coups in the USSR on 11:46 - Sep 23 by Churchman |
The turbulence has lasted for centuries and beyond. The Romanovs were hardly benign for beginners, before we get to the rest.
Russia appears to a country of states and peoples on a vast scale with shifting borders etc over the centuries. Putin is correct about parts of Ukraine being part of Russia in the past, but that’s as poor an argument as the U.K. wanting parts of France back or the US come to that or the Danes wanting the East of England (Danelaw).
It’s nonsense to mask a territory grab. Bonkers. |
They took the Ukrainian lands from Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth and the Ottoman Empire. Maybe Poland, Lithuania and Turkey should renew their claims against Russia. Maybe Konigsberg should be given to the Polish too or would that go Prussia? Or Sweden? |  |
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| Interesting article on the history of coups in the USSR on 18:03 - Sep 23 with 1629 views | Swansea_Blue |
We had a massive one when we house sat in the States. Bit of a DIY job and was a pain to keep clear of snow, but the chickens loved it  |  |
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