| Market reactions. 08:17 - Sep 28 with 3017 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
This is definitely not a post in support of current government policy but....
Surely if all we ever guage proposed radical changes to the norm by is market reaction then all we will ever get is more of the same. And more of the same is definitely not what most people on the planet or the planet itself need. |  |
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| Market reactions. on 08:19 - Sep 28 with 1716 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
More of the same is better than worse though... |  |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Market reactions. on 08:20 - Sep 28 with 1711 views | NthQldITFC |
Yes. Time for real change. Not as a catchphrase, but real, brave, fundamental change. To try to save the future. |  |
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| Market reactions. on 08:21 - Sep 28 with 1706 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Market reactions. on 08:19 - Sep 28 by The_Flashing_Smile |
More of the same is better than worse though... |
Always? Even if short term pain was to lead to fundamental long term gain? | |
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| Market reactions. on 08:24 - Sep 28 with 1686 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Market reactions. on 08:21 - Sep 28 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Always? Even if short term pain was to lead to fundamental long term gain? |
Depends what you're actually talking about. What is it the government are doing that's going to be good for the long term? | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Market reactions. on 08:25 - Sep 28 with 1685 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Market reactions. on 08:20 - Sep 28 by NthQldITFC |
Yes. Time for real change. Not as a catchphrase, but real, brave, fundamental change. To try to save the future. |
Thanks for recognising what I am getting at. Do you think this can ever be achieved whilst keeping 'the markets' happy? I strongly suspect not having left things so late in the day. Let's face it the markets have not supported a gradual transition to date. | |
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| Market reactions. on 08:25 - Sep 28 with 1680 views | giant_stow |
You make it sound like the market reaction is just some kind of harmless commentary on policy, when it's anything but. Everything, including imports and govt borrowing just got vastly more expensive. You can't just ignore that as unhelpful capitalist looking to preserve the status quo. |  |
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| Market reactions. on 08:26 - Sep 28 with 1674 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Market reactions. on 08:24 - Sep 28 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Depends what you're actually talking about. What is it the government are doing that's going to be good for the long term? |
I think you must have missed my first sentence! | |
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| Market reactions. on 08:27 - Sep 28 with 1667 views | nrb1985 |
You want to discount the market reaction?
Where do you think the money comes from for all this borrowing?
This post is from the same GCSE economics book Kwasi and Erdogan must have. [Post edited 28 Sep 2022 8:28]
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| Market reactions. on 08:31 - Sep 28 with 1642 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Market reactions. on 08:25 - Sep 28 by giant_stow |
You make it sound like the market reaction is just some kind of harmless commentary on policy, when it's anything but. Everything, including imports and govt borrowing just got vastly more expensive. You can't just ignore that as unhelpful capitalist looking to preserve the status quo. |
That's just the current fight between Capitalists and über Capitalists! Not ignoring, more making an observation.
How do you think they might react to fundamental wealth redistribution and a world of less stuff based on consumerism? | |
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| Market reactions. on 08:36 - Sep 28 with 1632 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Market reactions. on 08:27 - Sep 28 by nrb1985 |
You want to discount the market reaction?
Where do you think the money comes from for all this borrowing?
This post is from the same GCSE economics book Kwasi and Erdogan must have. [Post edited 28 Sep 2022 8:28]
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See my reply to NQITFC. So many on here that are incapable of recognising a wider point even when it is pretty much spelled out for them!
Fundamentally you seem to be saying that the market is always right in all circumstances. Thatcher will be smiling in her grave. | |
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| Market reactions. on 08:41 - Sep 28 with 1590 views | NthQldITFC |
| Market reactions. on 08:25 - Sep 28 by giant_stow |
You make it sound like the market reaction is just some kind of harmless commentary on policy, when it's anything but. Everything, including imports and govt borrowing just got vastly more expensive. You can't just ignore that as unhelpful capitalist looking to preserve the status quo. |
I think we have to look beyond the short-term, however hard and however scary it may be.
What's happening right now is a symptom of the product of over-consumption and over-population, and while of course it is natural to focus on our immediate hardships, it's making us forget about the obvious but uncomfortable reality that we cannot go on with capitalist growth in a finite world. It just isn't possible. I think we pretty much all realise this deep down, if only we can admit it to ourselves.
So we have to change the system, and now might be the best and last opportunity we are going to get to do so. Or at least to have a try. [Post edited 28 Sep 2022 8:52]
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| Market reactions. on 08:43 - Sep 28 with 1583 views | nrb1985 |
| Market reactions. on 08:36 - Sep 28 by BanksterDebtSlave |
See my reply to NQITFC. So many on here that are incapable of recognising a wider point even when it is pretty much spelled out for them!
Fundamentally you seem to be saying that the market is always right in all circumstances. Thatcher will be smiling in her grave. |
I live in Switzerland which has a very healthy dollop of socialism in its society and doesn't seem to have sky high bond yields, a run on its currency and a total lack of faith in its economic plan from the "markets" or indeed the IMF - or are you do you think they're some form of sinister organization too?
You are confusing change with outright stupidity.
Or, could you please find me one example of where fiscal and monetary policies working in opposite directions, during an economic crisis, has brought about a good change? [Post edited 28 Sep 2022 8:44]
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| Market reactions. on 08:46 - Sep 28 with 1561 views | NthQldITFC |
| Market reactions. on 08:25 - Sep 28 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Thanks for recognising what I am getting at. Do you think this can ever be achieved whilst keeping 'the markets' happy? I strongly suspect not having left things so late in the day. Let's face it the markets have not supported a gradual transition to date. |
Not while keeping 'the markets' as they exist now happy. But what are 'the markets'? Are they people or are they philosophies or are they algorithms or banks or numbers in an equation? People can change, and the rest can be destroyed without hurting anybody or destroying nature or making anybody sad even.
We just have to keep some hope, reject cynicism in ourselves and encourage each other to put aside selfishness and try to keep Project Life going. | |
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| Market reactions. on 08:48 - Sep 28 with 1559 views | Churchman |
The problem is that dumb and dumber’s efforts last Friday were not innovative or radical. They’ve been done before and failed before. If there was any form of coherence or basics, like costings, I doubt the markets would have responded quite the dramatic way they did, let alone the extraordinary IMF statement and anyone with a brain cell on the planet.
The word incompetence is being used a lot and can be applied to every aspect from messaging to morality, with economics in the middle. The markets will have seen this and their credibility is now zero.
If these people are competent and knew what they are doing, why are they not explaining the benefits of currency crash, interest rate rises, mortgage deals pulled, stimulus to already high inflation? They must have known what’d happen if they are competent. Their opponent Sunak even wrote it down for them.
So Prime Minister and lackey, let’s hear the explanation. [Post edited 28 Sep 2022 8:49]
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| Market reactions. on 08:49 - Sep 28 with 1544 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Market reactions. on 08:43 - Sep 28 by nrb1985 |
I live in Switzerland which has a very healthy dollop of socialism in its society and doesn't seem to have sky high bond yields, a run on its currency and a total lack of faith in its economic plan from the "markets" or indeed the IMF - or are you do you think they're some form of sinister organization too?
You are confusing change with outright stupidity.
Or, could you please find me one example of where fiscal and monetary policies working in opposite directions, during an economic crisis, has brought about a good change? [Post edited 28 Sep 2022 8:44]
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Again, you have not read the first sentence in the op! | |
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| Market reactions. on 08:54 - Sep 28 with 1515 views | nrb1985 |
| Market reactions. on 08:49 - Sep 28 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Again, you have not read the first sentence in the op! |
Yes I have and I'm telling you this isn't radical change, it's stupidity.
If you want a fairer and more equitable society you can find plenty of examples in Europe where the "markets" are very happy to lend money and people aren't experiencing the same levels of borrowing costs or imported inflation.
Now answer my question about why you think the IMF have now come out and condemned this plan? Do you think it might just be because this isn't a very good idea? | | | |
| Market reactions. on 08:57 - Sep 28 with 1505 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Market reactions. on 08:46 - Sep 28 by NthQldITFC |
Not while keeping 'the markets' as they exist now happy. But what are 'the markets'? Are they people or are they philosophies or are they algorithms or banks or numbers in an equation? People can change, and the rest can be destroyed without hurting anybody or destroying nature or making anybody sad even.
We just have to keep some hope, reject cynicism in ourselves and encourage each other to put aside selfishness and try to keep Project Life going. |
The markets at present seem to be fundamentally about extracting wealth from a finite planet via perpetual increasing GDP/growth so an interesting point about recalibrating the markets. As they are now I am pretty certain they would react poorly to the necessary changes our planet and people need. | |
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| Market reactions. on 08:59 - Sep 28 with 1500 views | jeera |
| Market reactions. on 08:49 - Sep 28 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Again, you have not read the first sentence in the op! |
Are you referring to a set-up that was not allowed to happen because people feared change?
If so, it might be useful to say that.
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| Market reactions. on 09:00 - Sep 28 with 1496 views | NthQldITFC |
| Market reactions. on 08:54 - Sep 28 by nrb1985 |
Yes I have and I'm telling you this isn't radical change, it's stupidity.
If you want a fairer and more equitable society you can find plenty of examples in Europe where the "markets" are very happy to lend money and people aren't experiencing the same levels of borrowing costs or imported inflation.
Now answer my question about why you think the IMF have now come out and condemned this plan? Do you think it might just be because this isn't a very good idea? |
With respect, I do think you have got the wrong end of the stick with the OP here.
The radical change he's referring to is (I believe) the polar opposite of the idiotic manoeuvrings of the current, hopefully very short-term, incumbents of Downing Strasse. | |
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| Market reactions. on 09:00 - Sep 28 with 1493 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Market reactions. on 08:54 - Sep 28 by nrb1985 |
Yes I have and I'm telling you this isn't radical change, it's stupidity.
If you want a fairer and more equitable society you can find plenty of examples in Europe where the "markets" are very happy to lend money and people aren't experiencing the same levels of borrowing costs or imported inflation.
Now answer my question about why you think the IMF have now come out and condemned this plan? Do you think it might just be because this isn't a very good idea? |
I agree that it is stupidity but other radical options are available....the Cons will not be delivering them!
The IMF are looking to preserve the defunct status quo and economic model. | |
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| Market reactions. on 09:01 - Sep 28 with 1487 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Market reactions. on 08:59 - Sep 28 by jeera |
Are you referring to a set-up that was not allowed to happen because people feared change?
If so, it might be useful to say that.
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I am referring to things that have not happened/been tried yet. | |
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| Market reactions. on 09:07 - Sep 28 with 1457 views | jeera |
| Market reactions. on 09:01 - Sep 28 by BanksterDebtSlave |
I am referring to things that have not happened/been tried yet. |
That's what i said. | |
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| Market reactions. on 09:10 - Sep 28 with 1435 views | nrb1985 |
| Market reactions. on 08:48 - Sep 28 by Churchman |
The problem is that dumb and dumber’s efforts last Friday were not innovative or radical. They’ve been done before and failed before. If there was any form of coherence or basics, like costings, I doubt the markets would have responded quite the dramatic way they did, let alone the extraordinary IMF statement and anyone with a brain cell on the planet.
The word incompetence is being used a lot and can be applied to every aspect from messaging to morality, with economics in the middle. The markets will have seen this and their credibility is now zero.
If these people are competent and knew what they are doing, why are they not explaining the benefits of currency crash, interest rate rises, mortgage deals pulled, stimulus to already high inflation? They must have known what’d happen if they are competent. Their opponent Sunak even wrote it down for them.
So Prime Minister and lackey, let’s hear the explanation. [Post edited 28 Sep 2022 8:49]
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I believe the phrase the analyst at UBS used yesterday to describe this conservative party was "an economic doomsday cult".
They are the very worst and most dangerous combination of both thick and unhinged. | | | |
| Market reactions. on 09:12 - Sep 28 with 1422 views | Cheltenham_Blue |
| Market reactions. on 09:01 - Sep 28 by BanksterDebtSlave |
I am referring to things that have not happened/been tried yet. |
Is it right, or moral for others to suffer, often those with the lowest capacity to 'take a hit' in the short to medium term, whilst the radical change you seek is tried and experimented with?
Or should they be protected by expanding welfare rather than tightening rules on welfare at the same time as radical change? |  |
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| Market reactions. on 09:12 - Sep 28 with 1421 views | nrb1985 |
| Market reactions. on 09:01 - Sep 28 by BanksterDebtSlave |
I am referring to things that have not happened/been tried yet. |
As referenced above by Churchmans this has been tried before and with dire results.
See also what's happening in Turkey now.
Read up a bit on some economic lessons from history before making sweeping statements like "radical change". | | | |
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