| Oxford has a lot to answer for 10:35 - Oct 26 with 3791 views | DJR |
According to the Guardian.
"As a prime-ministerial Oxford graduate, Sunak continues a line at Number 10 that stretches back to the start of world war two: other than Gordon Brown, every prime minister who attended university was educated at Oxford."
Perhaps not surprising that this mirrors our decline as a nation, to the point where we have waiting lists of 7 million and public services that are at breaking point.
[Post edited 26 Oct 2022 10:39]
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| Oxford has a lot to answer for on 10:39 - Oct 26 with 1864 views | GlasgowBlue |
Some great Oxford educated Prime Ministers such as Churchill, Attlee, Thatcher and Blair in that list. |  |
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| Oxford has a lot to answer for on 10:40 - Oct 26 with 1868 views | DJR |
| Oxford has a lot to answer for on 10:39 - Oct 26 by GlasgowBlue |
Some great Oxford educated Prime Ministers such as Churchill, Attlee, Thatcher and Blair in that list. |
Churchill didn't go to university. [Post edited 26 Oct 2022 10:41]
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| Oxford has a lot to answer for on 10:40 - Oct 26 with 1867 views | GeoffSentence |
| Oxford has a lot to answer for on 10:39 - Oct 26 by GlasgowBlue |
Some great Oxford educated Prime Ministers such as Churchill, Attlee, Thatcher and Blair in that list. |
Two of those were indeed great. |  |
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| Oxford has a lot to answer for on 10:47 - Oct 26 with 1841 views | DJR |
| Oxford has a lot to answer for on 10:40 - Oct 26 by GeoffSentence |
Two of those were indeed great. |
The problem though is that is shows just how much privilege is entrenched. There can't be any other country in the world where a single university has had such an influence on politics. Certainly, the last four PMs have been hopeless. Cameron got away with it because of his charm, but none of his policies (including austerity) has stood up to scrutiny. [Post edited 26 Oct 2022 10:49]
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| Oxford has a lot to answer for on 10:48 - Oct 26 with 1833 views | MattinLondon |
I’m not that fussed about where PM’s went to university and I’m more concerned about the number of ex public schoolboys in positions of power. |  | | |
| Oxford has a lot to answer for on 10:55 - Oct 26 with 1814 views | DJR |
| Oxford has a lot to answer for on 10:48 - Oct 26 by MattinLondon |
I’m not that fussed about where PM’s went to university and I’m more concerned about the number of ex public schoolboys in positions of power. |
But don't you see that the two go hand in hand? Without the public school system, Oxbridge wouldn't have the grip on power that it does. If you look, for example, at journalists at the Guardian, they are in the main to a man (or woman) Oxbridge educated. The thing is that Corbyn threatened this cosy system, and just look what the entire media did to bring him down. | | | |
| Oxford has a lot to answer for on 11:00 - Oct 26 with 1792 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
Perhaps they would have fared better having two E’s at GCSE and being a Trade Union Studies dropout?
I don’t see the relevance of what uni they went to. I suspect however a large proportion were privileged enough to go to public schools, and that is the glass ceiling to most in both politics and industry. |  | | |
| Oxford has a lot to answer for on 11:14 - Oct 26 with 1752 views | WeWereZombies |
Oxford does, however, lag considerably behind Cambridge when it comes to cultivating double agents... |  |
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| Oxford has a lot to answer for on 11:25 - Oct 26 with 1712 views | mo_itfc |
| Oxford has a lot to answer for on 11:00 - Oct 26 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
Perhaps they would have fared better having two E’s at GCSE and being a Trade Union Studies dropout?
I don’t see the relevance of what uni they went to. I suspect however a large proportion were privileged enough to go to public schools, and that is the glass ceiling to most in both politics and industry. |
The relevance isn't about what uni they went to, it's about they almost all went to Oxford and not any of the other "top" unis. | |
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| Oxford has a lot to answer for on 11:31 - Oct 26 with 1694 views | DJR |
| Oxford has a lot to answer for on 11:00 - Oct 26 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
Perhaps they would have fared better having two E’s at GCSE and being a Trade Union Studies dropout?
I don’t see the relevance of what uni they went to. I suspect however a large proportion were privileged enough to go to public schools, and that is the glass ceiling to most in both politics and industry. |
Could such people have done any worse? Cameron was supposed to be very bright, but to my mind lacked judgment or common sense. On the other hand, my favourite politician, James Callaghan left school at 17 but had both nous and intelligence far beyond the vast majority of politicians these days. | | | |
| Oxford has a lot to answer for on 11:41 - Oct 26 with 1667 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| Oxford has a lot to answer for on 11:31 - Oct 26 by DJR |
Could such people have done any worse? Cameron was supposed to be very bright, but to my mind lacked judgment or common sense. On the other hand, my favourite politician, James Callaghan left school at 17 but had both nous and intelligence far beyond the vast majority of politicians these days. |
Personally I think they should have had a job for at least a few years before going into politics. How can you know anything about the outside world having never lived in it. Going straight from private school, to uni, and then politics. It’s no wonder they are so out of touch.
Starmer had a proper job, and no doubt a more lucrative one assuming he doesn’t fall to the lobbyists. | | | |
| Oxford has a lot to answer for on 11:59 - Oct 26 with 1645 views | DJR |
| Oxford has a lot to answer for on 11:41 - Oct 26 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
Personally I think they should have had a job for at least a few years before going into politics. How can you know anything about the outside world having never lived in it. Going straight from private school, to uni, and then politics. It’s no wonder they are so out of touch.
Starmer had a proper job, and no doubt a more lucrative one assuming he doesn’t fall to the lobbyists. |
Absolutely. These days, for many, its PPE at Oxford, then special adviser, then MP, then minister.
The same is true of special advisers, many of whom are barely out of university and have no real wisdom or experience. But it is them that drive the policy.
I worked in Whitehall drafting legislation for about 25 years, and became acutely aware of the role of special advisers during the Blair government. As such people had no real wisdom, but had an overwhelming self-confidence about their own ability, they didn't half come up with some nonsense. I left 11 years ago but the impression I get is that things have got even worse on this front, particularly as virtually all Cameron's policies have had to be reversed because they just didn't work. [Post edited 26 Oct 2022 12:00]
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| Oxford has a lot to answer for on 12:01 - Oct 26 with 1635 views | MattinLondon |
| Oxford has a lot to answer for on 10:55 - Oct 26 by DJR |
But don't you see that the two go hand in hand? Without the public school system, Oxbridge wouldn't have the grip on power that it does. If you look, for example, at journalists at the Guardian, they are in the main to a man (or woman) Oxbridge educated. The thing is that Corbyn threatened this cosy system, and just look what the entire media did to bring him down. |
Good point. Didn’t think of that. | | | |
| Oxford has a lot to answer for on 12:07 - Oct 26 with 1604 views | Radlett_blue |
| Oxford has a lot to answer for on 11:14 - Oct 26 by WeWereZombies |
Oxford does, however, lag considerably behind Cambridge when it comes to cultivating double agents... |
I remember attending the Varsity Rugby match at Twickenham in December 1979, shortly after Anthony Blunt's treachery had been made public. Oxford won 9-3, a good friend of mine was in their side, but what we really enjoyed was singing:
"We all agree
Anthony Blunt's a traitor." |  |
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| Oxford has a lot to answer for on 15:23 - Oct 26 with 1453 views | Kropotkin123 |
How did Liz Truss go to Oxford? Evidently she is incredibly thick. |  |
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| Oxford has a lot to answer for on 15:56 - Oct 26 with 1430 views | DJR |
| Oxford has a lot to answer for on 15:23 - Oct 26 by Kropotkin123 |
How did Liz Truss go to Oxford? Evidently she is incredibly thick. |
In the olden days, that was probably the entry requirement given it was what school you went to or the contacts that your family had. That nice Toby Young is a case in point. He didn't get the grades but his dad (Lord Young of Dartington) managed to swing things in his favour. Maybe her academic parents played a part. [Post edited 26 Oct 2022 15:57]
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| Oxford has a lot to answer for on 16:04 - Oct 26 with 1414 views | Radlett_blue |
| Oxford has a lot to answer for on 15:56 - Oct 26 by DJR |
In the olden days, that was probably the entry requirement given it was what school you went to or the contacts that your family had. That nice Toby Young is a case in point. He didn't get the grades but his dad (Lord Young of Dartington) managed to swing things in his favour. Maybe her academic parents played a part. [Post edited 26 Oct 2022 15:57]
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Getting into Oxford involves an entrance exam, not just using contacts. Truss's father is Emeritus Professor of Mathematics at Leeds University so I would suggest he at least is quite bright. Truss qualified as a Chartered Management Accountant so I doubt she is anywhere near as tick as some are suggesting, although yes, in her short time as PM she demonstrated appalling political judgement. | |
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| Oxford has a lot to answer for on 16:10 - Oct 26 with 1391 views | jeera |
| Oxford has a lot to answer for on 16:04 - Oct 26 by Radlett_blue |
Getting into Oxford involves an entrance exam, not just using contacts. Truss's father is Emeritus Professor of Mathematics at Leeds University so I would suggest he at least is quite bright. Truss qualified as a Chartered Management Accountant so I doubt she is anywhere near as tick as some are suggesting, although yes, in her short time as PM she demonstrated appalling political judgement. |
She certainly has some personality traits that give a strong impression she's thick.
Academic abilities can be quite apart from other characteristics can't they. |  |
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| Oxford has a lot to answer for on 16:13 - Oct 26 with 1382 views | leitrimblue |
| Oxford has a lot to answer for on 16:10 - Oct 26 by jeera |
She certainly has some personality traits that give a strong impression she's thick.
Academic abilities can be quite apart from other characteristics can't they. |
Exactly, being able to count a few beans doesn't guarantee the kinda intelligence needed to run a country etc |  | | |
| Oxford has a lot to answer for on 16:19 - Oct 26 with 1366 views | jeera |
| Oxford has a lot to answer for on 16:13 - Oct 26 by leitrimblue |
Exactly, being able to count a few beans doesn't guarantee the kinda intelligence needed to run a country etc |
Three.
And that one. | |
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| Oxford has a lot to answer for on 16:22 - Oct 26 with 1365 views | DJR |
| Oxford has a lot to answer for on 16:04 - Oct 26 by Radlett_blue |
Getting into Oxford involves an entrance exam, not just using contacts. Truss's father is Emeritus Professor of Mathematics at Leeds University so I would suggest he at least is quite bright. Truss qualified as a Chartered Management Accountant so I doubt she is anywhere near as tick as some are suggesting, although yes, in her short time as PM she demonstrated appalling political judgement. |
In my day (the 70s), the entrance exam was only for those who wanted to go to the university in the academic year that followed their A-levels. But my understanding was that many were prepared to delay a year. Whatever the route, those in the know were geared up for the system, and I don't believe Oxford in those days always got the brightest. I realise things are much different these days.
EDIT: Both her parents went to Cambridge, so would have known the Oxbridge system well. And as she did PPE, it may well be the case that she sat maths for the entrance exam, and would have been well-prepped by a Cambridge maths' graduate
FURTHER EDIT: Northgate with an upper 6th of well over 200 got 2 people into Oxbridge in my day. By contrast, Ipswich School with many fewer pupils got 15. But their A-level results were no better than Northgate's. This was clear evidence of Ipswich School knowing the system (including better preparing students for the entrance exam). [Post edited 26 Oct 2022 16:55]
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| Oxford has a lot to answer for on 16:26 - Oct 26 with 1353 views | HARRY10 |
| Oxford has a lot to answer for on 15:56 - Oct 26 by DJR |
In the olden days, that was probably the entry requirement given it was what school you went to or the contacts that your family had. That nice Toby Young is a case in point. He didn't get the grades but his dad (Lord Young of Dartington) managed to swing things in his favour. Maybe her academic parents played a part. [Post edited 26 Oct 2022 15:57]
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Anyone who has seen the film Pirterhouse Blue (or read the book) will be aware of the 'Gentlemens' degree' - in exchange for a donation to the college.
Academic competence does not necessarirly equate to a knowledge of the wider world, and all it's winders. In fact immersed in a closeted environment does often preclude the latter.
My father talk of how the son and daughter of the village headmaster was able to get both his son/daughter into te local grammar school, where they were pretty much bottom, but then both went on to 'Loughborough Sports College'. It was not that difficult to use a rubber to alter the answers on the II plus, before it was returned. The chap who acted as invigilator was a close family friend of their mother.
I don't know how much of some Oxbridges entrance exams are marked by outsiders. William Hague was said to spend all of his time working on student politics (Tory) yet managed a first.
I suspect certain colleges have fellows who see their job as to identify and promote the next set of 'leaders' - see Portillo. The idea being to ensure the 'right' people are in charge ie those who will do what they are told.
it is not some grand conspiracy, just the real establishment protected their own position. Not a great difference from ITFC seeking out and developing youth players. | | | |
| Oxford has a lot to answer for on 17:10 - Oct 26 with 1282 views | factual_blue |
| Oxford has a lot to answer for on 11:14 - Oct 26 by WeWereZombies |
Oxford does, however, lag considerably behind Cambridge when it comes to cultivating double agents... |
or maybe the Oxford ones are better at not getting caught.... |  |
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| Oxford has a lot to answer for on 17:13 - Oct 26 with 1275 views | factual_blue |
| Oxford has a lot to answer for on 11:31 - Oct 26 by DJR |
Could such people have done any worse? Cameron was supposed to be very bright, but to my mind lacked judgment or common sense. On the other hand, my favourite politician, James Callaghan left school at 17 but had both nous and intelligence far beyond the vast majority of politicians these days. |
Ed Balls - of roughly the same Oxford generation - has a much degree than cameron, and is patently (a) brighter, (b) imbued with far more common sense, and (c) a decent cove (despite being a norwich fan). | |
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| Oxford has a lot to answer for on 17:54 - Oct 26 with 1251 views | factual_blue |
The Smart Kid in my year at school went to Brasenose College, read English and spent his entire career as an academic as a philologist, writing useful treatises with titles like 'The derivation of Old English geolu "yellow", and the relative chronology of smoothing and back-mutation.' | |
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