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I know I shouldn't but there is a slight feeling of sympathy for Farge. Having painted himnself into a corner with his umpteen lies, he has now the unpleasant task of spinning even more nonsense to stand by them.
500,000 migrants entered the UK in 2022. That's a net figure and does NOT include those arriving by boat
Yet the UK is still chronically short of labour even with those numbers entering. Why no comment from Fartrage about those 500,000 ?
Could it be that it would demonstrate that this Bill and Fartrages absurd nonsense, is what it obviously is. A cynical attempt to explout the stupidity of thick people so as to distract from the almost complete failings of this government and Brexit ?
The guff about controlling borders should be set against the reality that there has been no attempt to bring in import controls. They are still as they were before brexit.
However poor old Fartrage has to whine about the benefits of a policy that cannot work. Much as brexit.
Put simply. You cannot return people to a country, unless that country agrees to take them.
You cannot return people to a specific country when you do not know where they came from.
Quite basic stuff that you would think even the thickest of thick brexiters could grasp. And that it was brexit that caused the UK to leave the mechanism that worked before.
You righties broke it, not us.
This is a mess of your making. Made despite the constant warnings.
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Wonderful news re new legislation to keep out the asylum seekers* on 16:20 - Mar 8 with 1700 views
Wonderful news re new legislation to keep out the asylum seekers* on 16:25 - Mar 8 by BlueBadger
Trouble with you being ironic Banksy, is it does look rather similar to you being unironic at times....
Come on Badger you just saw Nige, Brexit voting Banksy and couldn't help but join some dots to keep binary, team politics world in tact....but I forgive you!!
"They break our legs and tell us to be grateful when they offer us crutches."
The current Labour leadership seems to show little appetite to which is very disappointing.
The only way I can see us getting a LibDem government is if they promise to rejoin the EU and sufficient of the electorate see that as a big enough priority. Conservative and Labour split 50% of the vote and LibDem mop up 40% would probably do it.
Wonderful news re new legislation to keep out the asylum seekers* on 17:09 - Mar 8 by Nthsuffolkblue
"Could a new gov reverse these types of laws?"
Of course, it could.
Would a new gov reverse these types of laws?
The current Labour leadership seems to show little appetite to which is very disappointing.
The only way I can see us getting a LibDem government is if they promise to rejoin the EU and sufficient of the electorate see that as a big enough priority. Conservative and Labour split 50% of the vote and LibDem mop up 40% would probably do it.
The Libdems are only ever seen as a protest vote.
As to what Labour will do it doesn't matter currently
I've no doubt that the 20 plus lead in the polls will be given another boost once fat boy is up before the privileges committee.
And I've no doubt either that talks between the EU and Labour are far more advanced that what is currently known
I suspect we are in the position of Roosevelt in the autumn of 1940. Softly softly, don't say anything, get elected in Nov 1940, then you have four years to fight Nazi Germany.
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Wonderful news re new legislation to keep out the asylum seekers* on 17:36 - Mar 8 with 1540 views
Wonderful news re new legislation to keep out the asylum seekers* on 17:09 - Mar 8 by Nthsuffolkblue
"Could a new gov reverse these types of laws?"
Of course, it could.
Would a new gov reverse these types of laws?
The current Labour leadership seems to show little appetite to which is very disappointing.
The only way I can see us getting a LibDem government is if they promise to rejoin the EU and sufficient of the electorate see that as a big enough priority. Conservative and Labour split 50% of the vote and LibDem mop up 40% would probably do it.
That's my feeling about Labour too.
Yvette Cooper has merely attacked the plans on the basis of the fact that they won't work, but far more important to my mind is attacking them on moral, racist and humanitarian grounds and on the basis they are in breach of our obligations under human rights and international conventions.
From what I can see, the only people in Labour properly calling out what the Tories are doing are those on the left of the party, whom the party wants rid of.
[Post edited 8 Mar 2023 17:37]
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Wonderful news re new legislation to keep out the asylum seekers* on 18:30 - Mar 8 with 1468 views
Wonderful news re new legislation to keep out the asylum seekers* on 17:24 - Mar 8 by HARRY10
The Libdems are only ever seen as a protest vote.
As to what Labour will do it doesn't matter currently
I've no doubt that the 20 plus lead in the polls will be given another boost once fat boy is up before the privileges committee.
And I've no doubt either that talks between the EU and Labour are far more advanced that what is currently known
I suspect we are in the position of Roosevelt in the autumn of 1940. Softly softly, don't say anything, get elected in Nov 1940, then you have four years to fight Nazi Germany.
Ignorant question - is it actually possible to rejoin the single market without rejoining the EU first? I ask because I saw a recent video on YouTube (the channel Maximilien Robespierre) where he basically said 'stop talking about rejoining the single market. We'd need to rejoin the EU first', but the video appears to have been deleted, so I wonder if he was wrong.
Obviously NI has now get access to the single market despite not being in the EU (and with it, I am simply assuming, full freedom of movement within the EU again?).
Wonderful news re new legislation to keep out the asylum seekers* on 18:30 - Mar 8 by ThisIsMyUsername
Ignorant question - is it actually possible to rejoin the single market without rejoining the EU first? I ask because I saw a recent video on YouTube (the channel Maximilien Robespierre) where he basically said 'stop talking about rejoining the single market. We'd need to rejoin the EU first', but the video appears to have been deleted, so I wonder if he was wrong.
Obviously NI has now get access to the single market despite not being in the EU (and with it, I am simply assuming, full freedom of movement within the EU again?).
Joining the Single Market without rejoining the EU would mean following the rules that the EU dictates without having any say on them.
Wouldn't it be ironic if we did that!
It would be up to the EU to decide what we could and couldn't do in terms of joining. They have a number of partial arrangements with different countries, hence why the Leave Campaign frequently referred to different options we could take up. So, in a sense, since the Leave Campaign frequently referenced them, some second-rate deal without any voting rights would be perfectly apt.
Wonderful news re new legislation to keep out the asylum seekers* on 18:36 - Mar 8 by Nthsuffolkblue
Joining the Single Market without rejoining the EU would mean following the rules that the EU dictates without having any say on them.
Wouldn't it be ironic if we did that!
It would be up to the EU to decide what we could and couldn't do in terms of joining. They have a number of partial arrangements with different countries, hence why the Leave Campaign frequently referred to different options we could take up. So, in a sense, since the Leave Campaign frequently referenced them, some second-rate deal without any voting rights would be perfectly apt.
Thanks.
So would it automatically bring back freedom of movement regardless of the terms, and does/will NI have this again now?
Wonderful news re new legislation to keep out the asylum seekers* on 18:30 - Mar 8 by ThisIsMyUsername
Ignorant question - is it actually possible to rejoin the single market without rejoining the EU first? I ask because I saw a recent video on YouTube (the channel Maximilien Robespierre) where he basically said 'stop talking about rejoining the single market. We'd need to rejoin the EU first', but the video appears to have been deleted, so I wonder if he was wrong.
Obviously NI has now get access to the single market despite not being in the EU (and with it, I am simply assuming, full freedom of movement within the EU again?).
NI citizens don’t have FOM within the EU (other than in Ireland under the common travel arrangements between UK and Ire). They’re only in the SM for goods as well, not services. So it’s an improvement on what the rest of the UK has, but still not as good as they had before Brexidiocy.
Edit, so in other words goods are treated by EU standards but people aren’t - they can still only visit the EU for 90 days in 180, etc., same as those of us in Eng, Scot & Cymru.
Wonderful news re new legislation to keep out the asylum seekers* on 18:40 - Mar 8 by ThisIsMyUsername
Thanks.
So would it automatically bring back freedom of movement regardless of the terms, and does/will NI have this again now?
Yes, if we rejoin the SM or the EU completely, the four freedoms (applying to goods, services, capital and people) would be automatically applied. The tricky points would be around whether we could renegotiate our veto, rebate and other concessions we gave up when we left. Some say that’s unlikely, so we’d potential go back in with less clout and for more money. I don’t know whether that’s true - I suspect we’d have to test that through negotiations.
There’s also the Euro question of course (wouldn’t bother me, but the little Englanders would explode at the thought of losing the £).
PS. Bringing it all back to this thread, if we rejoined we would of course have the agreements again to return refugees to other countries. We gave that right up when we left. We wanted to take back control and not have foreigners involved, and that’s what we’ve got and largely why there’s a problem (in combination with incompetent Home Office leadership and under-resourcing of our asylum processes). The irony, eh?!
Wonderful news re new legislation to keep out the asylum seekers* on 18:46 - Mar 8 by Swansea_Blue
NI citizens don’t have FOM within the EU (other than in Ireland under the common travel arrangements between UK and Ire). They’re only in the SM for goods as well, not services. So it’s an improvement on what the rest of the UK has, but still not as good as they had before Brexidiocy.
Edit, so in other words goods are treated by EU standards but people aren’t - they can still only visit the EU for 90 days in 180, etc., same as those of us in Eng, Scot & Cymru.
[Post edited 8 Mar 2023 18:48]
Ah, OK. So would the only way the rest of the UK could ever regain FoM be to rejoin the EU fully? Or is it feasible and possible that we/the EU would/could negotiate renewed access to the SM including FoM? (So a situation that's better than the current NI deal).
So many questions.
Edit - you've answered this in your second post above. Thanks.
So really the whole thing is still very uncertain and nothing is guaranteed despite everyone realising what a f**k up has been allowed to happen.
Wonderful news re new legislation to keep out the asylum seekers* on 18:55 - Mar 8 by ThisIsMyUsername
Ah, OK. So would the only way the rest of the UK could ever regain FoM be to rejoin the EU fully? Or is it feasible and possible that we/the EU would/could negotiate renewed access to the SM including FoM? (So a situation that's better than the current NI deal).
So many questions.
Edit - you've answered this in your second post above. Thanks.
So really the whole thing is still very uncertain and nothing is guaranteed despite everyone realising what a f**k up has been allowed to happen.
[Post edited 8 Mar 2023 18:56]
Yeah, SM would confer FOM, e.g. Norway style. Or signing up to the Schengen Agreement, which effectively scraps all borders between participating states (you can have one without the other: we used to have an opt out of Schengen and Ireland still do, so they run their own border control. What I don’t know is whether we could sign up to Schengen only without SM; possibly not but why would you want to, as you’d want the FOM for goods, service and capital and not just people.
Wonderful news re new legislation to keep out the asylum seekers* on 19:06 - Mar 8 by Swansea_Blue
Yeah, SM would confer FOM, e.g. Norway style. Or signing up to the Schengen Agreement, which effectively scraps all borders between participating states (you can have one without the other: we used to have an opt out of Schengen and Ireland still do, so they run their own border control. What I don’t know is whether we could sign up to Schengen only without SM; possibly not but why would you want to, as you’d want the FOM for goods, service and capital and not just people.
This dhows who has what. Not the simplest!
[Post edited 8 Mar 2023 19:06]
Thank you for taking the time to explain it for me.
Wonderful news re new legislation to keep out the asylum seekers* on 19:06 - Mar 8 by Swansea_Blue
Yeah, SM would confer FOM, e.g. Norway style. Or signing up to the Schengen Agreement, which effectively scraps all borders between participating states (you can have one without the other: we used to have an opt out of Schengen and Ireland still do, so they run their own border control. What I don’t know is whether we could sign up to Schengen only without SM; possibly not but why would you want to, as you’d want the FOM for goods, service and capital and not just people.
This dhows who has what. Not the simplest!
[Post edited 8 Mar 2023 19:06]
You mean it's noting like as simple as most people voting in the referendum probably thought it was! Who knew?
Wonderful news re new legislation to keep out the asylum seekers* on 18:46 - Mar 8 by Swansea_Blue
NI citizens don’t have FOM within the EU (other than in Ireland under the common travel arrangements between UK and Ire). They’re only in the SM for goods as well, not services. So it’s an improvement on what the rest of the UK has, but still not as good as they had before Brexidiocy.
Edit, so in other words goods are treated by EU standards but people aren’t - they can still only visit the EU for 90 days in 180, etc., same as those of us in Eng, Scot & Cymru.
[Post edited 8 Mar 2023 18:48]
But those born in Northern Ireland, or those anywhere in the UK with a parent or grandparent born in the island of Ireland, do have the right to an Irish passport, which brings with it EU free movement.
Talk about the luck of the Irish!
I wonder how many DUP members or their children, have taken advantage of this?
[Post edited 8 Mar 2023 19:43]
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Wonderful news re new legislation to keep out the asylum seekers* on 19:38 - Mar 8 with 1236 views
Wonderful news re new legislation to keep out the asylum seekers* on 19:26 - Mar 8 by Nthsuffolkblue
You mean it's noting like as simple as most people voting in the referendum probably thought it was! Who knew?
Why would anybody want to rejoin project Globalism to support the demands of multinationals when its fragilities have been so readily exposed in recent years?
"They break our legs and tell us to be grateful when they offer us crutches."
Wonderful news re new legislation to keep out the asylum seekers* on 19:36 - Mar 8 by DJR
But those born in Northern Ireland, or those anywhere in the UK with a parent or grandparent born in the island of Ireland, do have the right to an Irish passport, which brings with it EU free movement.
Talk about the luck of the Irish!
I wonder how many DUP members or their children, have taken advantage of this?
[Post edited 8 Mar 2023 19:43]
This suggests that unionists are applying for Irish passports.
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