| McKenna Out on 19:12 - Jul 15 with 2267 views | Herbivore |
You joke but results are pretty worrying. Leaking goals, struggling to beat some ropey teams. Think we really need to revise our expectations for next year, avoiding relegation will be tough. |  |
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| McKenna Out on 19:25 - Jul 15 with 2221 views | blueasfook |
| McKenna Out on 19:12 - Jul 15 by Herbivore |
You joke but results are pretty worrying. Leaking goals, struggling to beat some ropey teams. Think we really need to revise our expectations for next year, avoiding relegation will be tough. |
Lol, I will be bookmarking this post Herbs |  |
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| McKenna Out on 20:25 - Jul 15 with 2146 views | ArnieM |
| McKenna Out on 19:12 - Jul 15 by Herbivore |
You joke but results are pretty worrying. Leaking goals, struggling to beat some ropey teams. Think we really need to revise our expectations for next year, avoiding relegation will be tough. |
You’ll ridicule me as usual, but we need stronger defenders. Sorry, but that’s how I see it …. Will be more than happy to be wrong btw! |  |
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| McKenna Out on 20:43 - Jul 15 with 2103 views | BcarefulwhatUWish4 |
| McKenna Out on 20:25 - Jul 15 by ArnieM |
You’ll ridicule me as usual, but we need stronger defenders. Sorry, but that’s how I see it …. Will be more than happy to be wrong btw! |
Will be interesting to see how the defenders we've got step up to the next level. |  | | |
| McKenna Out on 20:54 - Jul 15 with 2088 views | Stewart27 |
| McKenna Out on 20:25 - Jul 15 by ArnieM |
You’ll ridicule me as usual, but we need stronger defenders. Sorry, but that’s how I see it …. Will be more than happy to be wrong btw! |
Stronger defenders than the team who kept record clean sheets last year?
Stronger defenders than a defence who starts off all of our attacking moves by inviting the opposition in and calmly playing it out from the back?
Stronger defenders than a team who conceded 0 goals as a result of playing it out from the back despite the fact they play it out from the back 95% of occasions?
Oh yeah sorry. Woolfie is a little bit laid back. |  | | |
| McKenna Out on 20:55 - Jul 15 with 2079 views | J2BLUE |
| McKenna Out on 19:12 - Jul 15 by Herbivore |
You joke but results are pretty worrying. Leaking goals, struggling to beat some ropey teams. Think we really need to revise our expectations for next year, avoiding relegation will be tough. |
ffs guys, do you think he may have been joking?  |  |
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| McKenna Out on 21:03 - Jul 15 with 2040 views | FrimleyBlue |
| McKenna Out on 20:54 - Jul 15 by Stewart27 |
Stronger defenders than the team who kept record clean sheets last year?
Stronger defenders than a defence who starts off all of our attacking moves by inviting the opposition in and calmly playing it out from the back?
Stronger defenders than a team who conceded 0 goals as a result of playing it out from the back despite the fact they play it out from the back 95% of occasions?
Oh yeah sorry. Woolfie is a little bit laid back. |
So stewy are you saying we shouldn't sign any players?
Isn't the point to ensure you're as strong as possible for the level you are about to be playing and look ahead to the next.. not what level you were at?
It's one thing holding your own again an exeter or cambridge, But we re going into battle with the likes of Leeds, Leicester. Etc etc.
Fair enough support the players.. but don't underestimate the task ahead. |  |
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| McKenna Out on 21:08 - Jul 15 with 2022 views | Herbivore |
| McKenna Out on 20:55 - Jul 15 by J2BLUE |
ffs guys, do you think he may have been joking? |
This trolling lark is way too easy. | |
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| McKenna Out on 21:18 - Jul 15 with 1985 views | Stewart27 |
| McKenna Out on 21:03 - Jul 15 by FrimleyBlue |
So stewy are you saying we shouldn't sign any players?
Isn't the point to ensure you're as strong as possible for the level you are about to be playing and look ahead to the next.. not what level you were at?
It's one thing holding your own again an exeter or cambridge, But we re going into battle with the likes of Leeds, Leicester. Etc etc.
Fair enough support the players.. but don't underestimate the task ahead. |
I actually understand what you are saying.
I just know the OP has always had an issue with our defenders even in league one. Hence my response.
I actually think that we can strengthen all over. Not just the defence. But on the flip side I’d be happy to go into next season with Woolfie and Burgess at the back. | | | |
| McKenna Out on 22:27 - Jul 15 with 1870 views | Vic |
| McKenna Out on 20:25 - Jul 15 by ArnieM |
You’ll ridicule me as usual, but we need stronger defenders. Sorry, but that’s how I see it …. Will be more than happy to be wrong btw! |
What makes you feel that way Arnie?
I know we’ve gone up a league and will face better teams/strikers but that’s the same for any team that gets promotion. The thing with our defence is that they were very strong last season so O see no reason for us to be unduly worried. For sure, they will need to up thier game but there’s no real reason to think they won’t be able to do that. But like every part of the team, if we want to continue to improve then we will obviously need to continue to develop existing players and bring in even better ones. |  |
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| McKenna Out on 22:32 - Jul 15 with 1865 views | unstableblue |
| McKenna Out on 19:12 - Jul 15 by Herbivore |
You joke but results are pretty worrying. Leaking goals, struggling to beat some ropey teams. Think we really need to revise our expectations for next year, avoiding relegation will be tough. |
Herby - trust me! People will take you seriously here… and tell you “calm down” and downvote
Sarcasm is lost on the board |  |
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| McKenna Out on 22:35 - Jul 15 with 1843 views | Swansea_Blue |
| McKenna Out on 22:27 - Jul 15 by Vic |
What makes you feel that way Arnie?
I know we’ve gone up a league and will face better teams/strikers but that’s the same for any team that gets promotion. The thing with our defence is that they were very strong last season so O see no reason for us to be unduly worried. For sure, they will need to up thier game but there’s no real reason to think they won’t be able to do that. But like every part of the team, if we want to continue to improve then we will obviously need to continue to develop existing players and bring in even better ones. |
There’s some cracking players in the Championship. I think we need a little more quality to do well, but then I don’t think we’re in trouble either. It all comes down to what our expectations are. There are worse defenders than ours individually and, more importantly, there are defences who aren’t as together. |  |
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| McKenna Out on 22:42 - Jul 15 with 1816 views | RadioOrwell |
| McKenna Out on 20:54 - Jul 15 by Stewart27 |
Stronger defenders than the team who kept record clean sheets last year?
Stronger defenders than a defence who starts off all of our attacking moves by inviting the opposition in and calmly playing it out from the back?
Stronger defenders than a team who conceded 0 goals as a result of playing it out from the back despite the fact they play it out from the back 95% of occasions?
Oh yeah sorry. Woolfie is a little bit laid back. |
good grief
less caffeine, more exercise, less screen time |  | | |
| McKenna Out on 23:09 - Jul 15 with 1731 views | Herbivore |
| McKenna Out on 22:27 - Jul 15 by Vic |
What makes you feel that way Arnie?
I know we’ve gone up a league and will face better teams/strikers but that’s the same for any team that gets promotion. The thing with our defence is that they were very strong last season so O see no reason for us to be unduly worried. For sure, they will need to up thier game but there’s no real reason to think they won’t be able to do that. But like every part of the team, if we want to continue to improve then we will obviously need to continue to develop existing players and bring in even better ones. |
Clarke-Harris was probably the best striker in League 1 and he spent 180 minutes in Woolfie's pocket last season. Woolf was class last season and looks well capable of stepping up. Burgess was very good too, although I'm a little more cautious about him stepping up as he got caught flat footed a few times last season and not sure how well he'll cope on the ball against sides applying more pressure. That said, to be massively worried about our defence feels off given how good they were last season overall. | |
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| McKenna Out on 23:40 - Jul 15 with 1693 views | Stewart27 |
| McKenna Out on 22:42 - Jul 15 by RadioOrwell |
good grief
less caffeine, more exercise, less screen time |
Huh? | | | |
| McKenna Out on 08:40 - Jul 16 with 1480 views | ArnieM |
| McKenna Out on 22:27 - Jul 15 by Vic |
What makes you feel that way Arnie?
I know we’ve gone up a league and will face better teams/strikers but that’s the same for any team that gets promotion. The thing with our defence is that they were very strong last season so O see no reason for us to be unduly worried. For sure, they will need to up thier game but there’s no real reason to think they won’t be able to do that. But like every part of the team, if we want to continue to improve then we will obviously need to continue to develop existing players and bring in even better ones. |
Hi Vic, I will put on record that I feel Woolfie has improved a lot over last season. I’m not especially anti Woolfie either, just that I have felt he has weaknesses in his game. But then so do Edmundson and Burgess.
Stewart makes the point about our defensive record last season. Brilliant wasn’t it! Unbelievable I’d say. But that has developed over the last 12 months as McKenna’s tactical strategy has been learnt by the TEAM as a whole. Opponents to a team, said they can’t get the ball off us. Our possession stats support that. We keep the ball. If the opposition doesn’t have the ball they can’t hurt you is the old saying , and so that was the case mostly last season. It was down to how McKenna had us playing , building from the back, pushing up en bloc, gradually, with the ball. Making space, moving the ball and players forward. By virtue of this our defence is by and large protected. They are not called upon to “defend”.
When McCarthy came into the club we were prior to that, leaking goals every game. We were shocking. He sticks 10 men behind the ball and we stop leaking goals. Were the defenders suddenly better defenders? Or was it more down to a change in tactics which took the pressure off those defenders?
You ask me why I doubt our defence.
I feel when our defenders are called upon to actually defend (and I mean largely in the box), I feel our players are not as strong as they need to be. Last season the ball in our box wasn’t happening as much BECAUSE or our possession approach. But when we don’t have the ball, and it comes into our box, I feel we are vulnerable. Why? Initially it was down to partnerships. Edmundson/ Woolfie, for me was a car crash. If it wasn’t one losing possession ( up the park) ending in a goal, it’s was the other. We were conceding “ soft goals” every game, often when we were on top of the game . Opponents would get one attack it seemed and would score.
Eventually McKenna changes the partnership to Burgess and Woolfie. With this partnership , we have IMHO a duo that works better together. Burgess generally is much better in the air and deals with balls into the box better, whilst Woolfie brings the ball out from defence and starts attacks. We had a similar iconic partnership years ago. Hunter / Beattie. Now whilst our current defensive duo are not a patch on these two icons, there are similarities. One is comfortable with the ball at his feet, the other is what Id call the more “ traditional” centre back defender, who can marshal his man well, can header the ball, and clear the lines when required. The other is comfortable with the ball at feet and bringing it out of defence. But none of our CB’ s have genuine pace. So when caught out, can’t recover either their error or their team mates error.
Will this be good enough since the Championship? I don’t know. But my thoughts are you need (in an ideal world), both your CB’s to be good in the air, capable of marshalling their opponent, clearing the lines, and under McKenna’s approach, comfortable on the ball, and have pace. I don’t think we have that. Out of the current pairing , Burgess / Woolfie, neither has all of these attributes. Will better teams be able to exploit this? Possibly.
The other thing that concerns me , and which has a major impact ( IMHO) on our defensive abilities if the quality of our midfielders. Take Morsy out of that midfield , even with Luongo still 8n there , the defence invariably is under more pressure. This guy is pivotal to how this team plays. He’s rarely been out of the side, but when he has been ,it’s been a vastly different Town side we see. Problem is he’s not getting any younger. We need a suitable, younger understudy. I’m sure the Club are working on this, at least we know the club is in much better hands in terms of planning and continuing development.
So when I’ve been saying we need better defenders, the above is what I’m alluding too.
I won’t be saying anything further on this and like everyone else on here I’m only ever wanting Town to succeed and do well, and I will be in the stands giving my all for the boys in blue,as I’ve done every game for the past 50 years. That won’t change. | |
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| McKenna Out on 08:59 - Jul 16 with 1436 views | Herbivore |
| McKenna Out on 08:40 - Jul 16 by ArnieM |
Hi Vic, I will put on record that I feel Woolfie has improved a lot over last season. I’m not especially anti Woolfie either, just that I have felt he has weaknesses in his game. But then so do Edmundson and Burgess.
Stewart makes the point about our defensive record last season. Brilliant wasn’t it! Unbelievable I’d say. But that has developed over the last 12 months as McKenna’s tactical strategy has been learnt by the TEAM as a whole. Opponents to a team, said they can’t get the ball off us. Our possession stats support that. We keep the ball. If the opposition doesn’t have the ball they can’t hurt you is the old saying , and so that was the case mostly last season. It was down to how McKenna had us playing , building from the back, pushing up en bloc, gradually, with the ball. Making space, moving the ball and players forward. By virtue of this our defence is by and large protected. They are not called upon to “defend”.
When McCarthy came into the club we were prior to that, leaking goals every game. We were shocking. He sticks 10 men behind the ball and we stop leaking goals. Were the defenders suddenly better defenders? Or was it more down to a change in tactics which took the pressure off those defenders?
You ask me why I doubt our defence.
I feel when our defenders are called upon to actually defend (and I mean largely in the box), I feel our players are not as strong as they need to be. Last season the ball in our box wasn’t happening as much BECAUSE or our possession approach. But when we don’t have the ball, and it comes into our box, I feel we are vulnerable. Why? Initially it was down to partnerships. Edmundson/ Woolfie, for me was a car crash. If it wasn’t one losing possession ( up the park) ending in a goal, it’s was the other. We were conceding “ soft goals” every game, often when we were on top of the game . Opponents would get one attack it seemed and would score.
Eventually McKenna changes the partnership to Burgess and Woolfie. With this partnership , we have IMHO a duo that works better together. Burgess generally is much better in the air and deals with balls into the box better, whilst Woolfie brings the ball out from defence and starts attacks. We had a similar iconic partnership years ago. Hunter / Beattie. Now whilst our current defensive duo are not a patch on these two icons, there are similarities. One is comfortable with the ball at his feet, the other is what Id call the more “ traditional” centre back defender, who can marshal his man well, can header the ball, and clear the lines when required. The other is comfortable with the ball at feet and bringing it out of defence. But none of our CB’ s have genuine pace. So when caught out, can’t recover either their error or their team mates error.
Will this be good enough since the Championship? I don’t know. But my thoughts are you need (in an ideal world), both your CB’s to be good in the air, capable of marshalling their opponent, clearing the lines, and under McKenna’s approach, comfortable on the ball, and have pace. I don’t think we have that. Out of the current pairing , Burgess / Woolfie, neither has all of these attributes. Will better teams be able to exploit this? Possibly.
The other thing that concerns me , and which has a major impact ( IMHO) on our defensive abilities if the quality of our midfielders. Take Morsy out of that midfield , even with Luongo still 8n there , the defence invariably is under more pressure. This guy is pivotal to how this team plays. He’s rarely been out of the side, but when he has been ,it’s been a vastly different Town side we see. Problem is he’s not getting any younger. We need a suitable, younger understudy. I’m sure the Club are working on this, at least we know the club is in much better hands in terms of planning and continuing development.
So when I’ve been saying we need better defenders, the above is what I’m alluding too.
I won’t be saying anything further on this and like everyone else on here I’m only ever wanting Town to succeed and do well, and I will be in the stands giving my all for the boys in blue,as I’ve done every game for the past 50 years. That won’t change. |
Woolfenden does all the things you say you want from a defender. He kept plenty of League 1's better strikers in his pocket last season, many of them completely unable to get a sniff against him. His reading of the game is superb, the number of times he steps out or drops in to snuff out danger during a game is very impressive but some seem to be unable to appreciate that side of the defensive game. There was a thread on here the other day showing that Woolf is one of the CBs most like Virgil van Dijk in how he plays, novody ever claims that van Dijk can't really defend and rightly so. | |
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| McKenna Out on 09:20 - Jul 16 with 1397 views | Churchman |
| McKenna Out on 08:40 - Jul 16 by ArnieM |
Hi Vic, I will put on record that I feel Woolfie has improved a lot over last season. I’m not especially anti Woolfie either, just that I have felt he has weaknesses in his game. But then so do Edmundson and Burgess.
Stewart makes the point about our defensive record last season. Brilliant wasn’t it! Unbelievable I’d say. But that has developed over the last 12 months as McKenna’s tactical strategy has been learnt by the TEAM as a whole. Opponents to a team, said they can’t get the ball off us. Our possession stats support that. We keep the ball. If the opposition doesn’t have the ball they can’t hurt you is the old saying , and so that was the case mostly last season. It was down to how McKenna had us playing , building from the back, pushing up en bloc, gradually, with the ball. Making space, moving the ball and players forward. By virtue of this our defence is by and large protected. They are not called upon to “defend”.
When McCarthy came into the club we were prior to that, leaking goals every game. We were shocking. He sticks 10 men behind the ball and we stop leaking goals. Were the defenders suddenly better defenders? Or was it more down to a change in tactics which took the pressure off those defenders?
You ask me why I doubt our defence.
I feel when our defenders are called upon to actually defend (and I mean largely in the box), I feel our players are not as strong as they need to be. Last season the ball in our box wasn’t happening as much BECAUSE or our possession approach. But when we don’t have the ball, and it comes into our box, I feel we are vulnerable. Why? Initially it was down to partnerships. Edmundson/ Woolfie, for me was a car crash. If it wasn’t one losing possession ( up the park) ending in a goal, it’s was the other. We were conceding “ soft goals” every game, often when we were on top of the game . Opponents would get one attack it seemed and would score.
Eventually McKenna changes the partnership to Burgess and Woolfie. With this partnership , we have IMHO a duo that works better together. Burgess generally is much better in the air and deals with balls into the box better, whilst Woolfie brings the ball out from defence and starts attacks. We had a similar iconic partnership years ago. Hunter / Beattie. Now whilst our current defensive duo are not a patch on these two icons, there are similarities. One is comfortable with the ball at his feet, the other is what Id call the more “ traditional” centre back defender, who can marshal his man well, can header the ball, and clear the lines when required. The other is comfortable with the ball at feet and bringing it out of defence. But none of our CB’ s have genuine pace. So when caught out, can’t recover either their error or their team mates error.
Will this be good enough since the Championship? I don’t know. But my thoughts are you need (in an ideal world), both your CB’s to be good in the air, capable of marshalling their opponent, clearing the lines, and under McKenna’s approach, comfortable on the ball, and have pace. I don’t think we have that. Out of the current pairing , Burgess / Woolfie, neither has all of these attributes. Will better teams be able to exploit this? Possibly.
The other thing that concerns me , and which has a major impact ( IMHO) on our defensive abilities if the quality of our midfielders. Take Morsy out of that midfield , even with Luongo still 8n there , the defence invariably is under more pressure. This guy is pivotal to how this team plays. He’s rarely been out of the side, but when he has been ,it’s been a vastly different Town side we see. Problem is he’s not getting any younger. We need a suitable, younger understudy. I’m sure the Club are working on this, at least we know the club is in much better hands in terms of planning and continuing development.
So when I’ve been saying we need better defenders, the above is what I’m alluding too.
I won’t be saying anything further on this and like everyone else on here I’m only ever wanting Town to succeed and do well, and I will be in the stands giving my all for the boys in blue,as I’ve done every game for the past 50 years. That won’t change. |
With the exception of Burnley (who took two games to beat us) there was nobody outstanding in the Championship. Sunderland were good, Luton organised and brutal, Coventry organised. A few others that were decent but by and large, looking at the top three or four in L1 last season, I didn’t see any gap between them and say the bottom half of the Championship as a minimum.
Our defence was outstanding. But the defensive record of the last 18 months is not just about them but the team as a whole. Top teams defend from the front. Solid defences don’t give the ball away in silly areas. Ours didn’t. We also have good full backs. The most underrated position on the field in my view. Good teams always have good people in that position.
Thinking of McCarthy’s team we leaked goals before him not because the players were all awful. We were wide open because they were 11 strangers, a shambles managed by a nice bloke who didn’t know a team from a teapot.
The problem was always somebody else. ‘After you Claude’ was how it was. McCarthy instilled a bit of organisation but the main thing was he got them playing for each other. No hiding, no leaving it to somebody else. The players took responsibility. Yes, we were pretty defensive, back to basics, but MMs teams played that way anyway.
Our defence next season doesn’t concern me. If we bring in another quality CH, great but for preference I’d like to see another striker at the club.
We are in a good place. I don’t think anyone knows how good or bad we are. The bookies seem to rate us and the last 15 games last season say we were far too good for that division. I think we will be fine but regardless, it’s a far better team and club than the one that surrendered with a whimper four years ago. [Post edited 16 Jul 2023 11:29]
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| McKenna Out on 10:20 - Jul 16 with 1305 views | BiGDonnie |
| McKenna Out on 08:40 - Jul 16 by ArnieM |
Hi Vic, I will put on record that I feel Woolfie has improved a lot over last season. I’m not especially anti Woolfie either, just that I have felt he has weaknesses in his game. But then so do Edmundson and Burgess.
Stewart makes the point about our defensive record last season. Brilliant wasn’t it! Unbelievable I’d say. But that has developed over the last 12 months as McKenna’s tactical strategy has been learnt by the TEAM as a whole. Opponents to a team, said they can’t get the ball off us. Our possession stats support that. We keep the ball. If the opposition doesn’t have the ball they can’t hurt you is the old saying , and so that was the case mostly last season. It was down to how McKenna had us playing , building from the back, pushing up en bloc, gradually, with the ball. Making space, moving the ball and players forward. By virtue of this our defence is by and large protected. They are not called upon to “defend”.
When McCarthy came into the club we were prior to that, leaking goals every game. We were shocking. He sticks 10 men behind the ball and we stop leaking goals. Were the defenders suddenly better defenders? Or was it more down to a change in tactics which took the pressure off those defenders?
You ask me why I doubt our defence.
I feel when our defenders are called upon to actually defend (and I mean largely in the box), I feel our players are not as strong as they need to be. Last season the ball in our box wasn’t happening as much BECAUSE or our possession approach. But when we don’t have the ball, and it comes into our box, I feel we are vulnerable. Why? Initially it was down to partnerships. Edmundson/ Woolfie, for me was a car crash. If it wasn’t one losing possession ( up the park) ending in a goal, it’s was the other. We were conceding “ soft goals” every game, often when we were on top of the game . Opponents would get one attack it seemed and would score.
Eventually McKenna changes the partnership to Burgess and Woolfie. With this partnership , we have IMHO a duo that works better together. Burgess generally is much better in the air and deals with balls into the box better, whilst Woolfie brings the ball out from defence and starts attacks. We had a similar iconic partnership years ago. Hunter / Beattie. Now whilst our current defensive duo are not a patch on these two icons, there are similarities. One is comfortable with the ball at his feet, the other is what Id call the more “ traditional” centre back defender, who can marshal his man well, can header the ball, and clear the lines when required. The other is comfortable with the ball at feet and bringing it out of defence. But none of our CB’ s have genuine pace. So when caught out, can’t recover either their error or their team mates error.
Will this be good enough since the Championship? I don’t know. But my thoughts are you need (in an ideal world), both your CB’s to be good in the air, capable of marshalling their opponent, clearing the lines, and under McKenna’s approach, comfortable on the ball, and have pace. I don’t think we have that. Out of the current pairing , Burgess / Woolfie, neither has all of these attributes. Will better teams be able to exploit this? Possibly.
The other thing that concerns me , and which has a major impact ( IMHO) on our defensive abilities if the quality of our midfielders. Take Morsy out of that midfield , even with Luongo still 8n there , the defence invariably is under more pressure. This guy is pivotal to how this team plays. He’s rarely been out of the side, but when he has been ,it’s been a vastly different Town side we see. Problem is he’s not getting any younger. We need a suitable, younger understudy. I’m sure the Club are working on this, at least we know the club is in much better hands in terms of planning and continuing development.
So when I’ve been saying we need better defenders, the above is what I’m alluding too.
I won’t be saying anything further on this and like everyone else on here I’m only ever wanting Town to succeed and do well, and I will be in the stands giving my all for the boys in blue,as I’ve done every game for the past 50 years. That won’t change. |
Did you forget your glasses last season? |  |
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