| If Phil had run a story in Mid August last year 09:25 - Apr 10 with 2367 views | Cheltenham_Blue |
"Town Sign Liam Delap On A Season Long Loan"
And the details of the story were that we had an obligation to buy if we stayed up, and if we didn't stay up, Man City were going to PAY Town £6-£8m. We would have all been laughing at the deal Ashton had managed to pull off and declaring the club football geniuses. [Post edited 10 Apr 9:26]
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| If Phil had run a story in Mid August last year on 09:36 - Apr 10 with 2271 views | Garv |
The whole release clause does sort of back up my confusion that we were able to get him in the first place. Unless he has really improved 'that much' in 12 months I find it odd that a mid table team didn't snap him up, but if the terms were not all that great, which it seems could be the case, then it makes sense. |  |
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| If Phil had run a story in Mid August last year on 10:02 - Apr 10 with 2183 views | darkhorse28 |
| If Phil had run a story in Mid August last year on 09:36 - Apr 10 by Garv |
The whole release clause does sort of back up my confusion that we were able to get him in the first place. Unless he has really improved 'that much' in 12 months I find it odd that a mid table team didn't snap him up, but if the terms were not all that great, which it seems could be the case, then it makes sense. |
If my Auntie had ball etc as Mick would have said. That wasn’t the deal, we signed a player, and gave him and future buying clubs ALL the leverage and ourselves none. That did happen. We can conject about discussions. But it shouldn’t be too difficult to get a player and his representatives to ‘back’ their client and assume at his age, he has a huge ceiling and get £40-50 million release.
I don’t see the point protecting Ashton (if this is true). In the context of spending £150 million on EFL level players, chasing KM all summer and giving him a champions league contract, all of which have aged really poorly (being kind) then why is this poor decision out of context or an outlier? It’s been 12 months of really poor strategy, decision making, especially around talent ID and process.
We only have one sellable asset, and if this is true, we’ve made a complete mess of it…, there are consequences with PSR.., this could result in no signings at all (maybe loans) and several more players having to leave. We will need more profit than this for PSR…, so if Hutchinson has to be sold as a consequence of a clause that didn’t protect the club, are we still team Ashton? …, we need to start having agency and accountability if we want to improve and be elite.. nobody at this level is making these consistent mistakes. You can’t be as bad as we’ve been off the pitch, and be successful on it, it’s impossible at this level. |  | | |
| If Phil had run a story in Mid August last year on 10:05 - Apr 10 with 2163 views | Guthrum |
I much prefer that we have had the enjoyment of Delap's ability (and personality) in the squad for a year than not to have done. A probable extra £8m on top is a bonus.
To expect a vast sum of money beyond that - particularly in the circumstance of not avoiding relegation - is perhaps being rather greedy. It's not like these clauses have been a great secret all season. |  |
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| If Phil had run a story in Mid August last year on 10:08 - Apr 10 with 2136 views | Guthrum |
| If Phil had run a story in Mid August last year on 10:02 - Apr 10 by darkhorse28 |
If my Auntie had ball etc as Mick would have said. That wasn’t the deal, we signed a player, and gave him and future buying clubs ALL the leverage and ourselves none. That did happen. We can conject about discussions. But it shouldn’t be too difficult to get a player and his representatives to ‘back’ their client and assume at his age, he has a huge ceiling and get £40-50 million release.
I don’t see the point protecting Ashton (if this is true). In the context of spending £150 million on EFL level players, chasing KM all summer and giving him a champions league contract, all of which have aged really poorly (being kind) then why is this poor decision out of context or an outlier? It’s been 12 months of really poor strategy, decision making, especially around talent ID and process.
We only have one sellable asset, and if this is true, we’ve made a complete mess of it…, there are consequences with PSR.., this could result in no signings at all (maybe loans) and several more players having to leave. We will need more profit than this for PSR…, so if Hutchinson has to be sold as a consequence of a clause that didn’t protect the club, are we still team Ashton? …, we need to start having agency and accountability if we want to improve and be elite.. nobody at this level is making these consistent mistakes. You can’t be as bad as we’ve been off the pitch, and be successful on it, it’s impossible at this level. |
Why will we need more profits for PSR? | |
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| If Phil had run a story in Mid August last year on 10:11 - Apr 10 with 2113 views | tractorboy1978 |
| If Phil had run a story in Mid August last year on 10:02 - Apr 10 by darkhorse28 |
If my Auntie had ball etc as Mick would have said. That wasn’t the deal, we signed a player, and gave him and future buying clubs ALL the leverage and ourselves none. That did happen. We can conject about discussions. But it shouldn’t be too difficult to get a player and his representatives to ‘back’ their client and assume at his age, he has a huge ceiling and get £40-50 million release.
I don’t see the point protecting Ashton (if this is true). In the context of spending £150 million on EFL level players, chasing KM all summer and giving him a champions league contract, all of which have aged really poorly (being kind) then why is this poor decision out of context or an outlier? It’s been 12 months of really poor strategy, decision making, especially around talent ID and process.
We only have one sellable asset, and if this is true, we’ve made a complete mess of it…, there are consequences with PSR.., this could result in no signings at all (maybe loans) and several more players having to leave. We will need more profit than this for PSR…, so if Hutchinson has to be sold as a consequence of a clause that didn’t protect the club, are we still team Ashton? …, we need to start having agency and accountability if we want to improve and be elite.. nobody at this level is making these consistent mistakes. You can’t be as bad as we’ve been off the pitch, and be successful on it, it’s impossible at this level. |
I think it's more likely we did the deal we had to do to sign him in the face of competition. Any release clause would have been driven by his agent. If Southampton were willing to put in a £30m release clause then we would need to match it.
Teams find themselves on the end of far from ideal clauses all the time. Look at Brighton having to sell Mac Allistair for £35m a couple of seasons ago after he was one of the best players at the 2022 World Cup. [Post edited 10 Apr 10:11]
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| If Phil had run a story in Mid August last year on 10:12 - Apr 10 with 2095 views | SuffolkPunchFC |
| If Phil had run a story in Mid August last year on 10:02 - Apr 10 by darkhorse28 |
If my Auntie had ball etc as Mick would have said. That wasn’t the deal, we signed a player, and gave him and future buying clubs ALL the leverage and ourselves none. That did happen. We can conject about discussions. But it shouldn’t be too difficult to get a player and his representatives to ‘back’ their client and assume at his age, he has a huge ceiling and get £40-50 million release.
I don’t see the point protecting Ashton (if this is true). In the context of spending £150 million on EFL level players, chasing KM all summer and giving him a champions league contract, all of which have aged really poorly (being kind) then why is this poor decision out of context or an outlier? It’s been 12 months of really poor strategy, decision making, especially around talent ID and process.
We only have one sellable asset, and if this is true, we’ve made a complete mess of it…, there are consequences with PSR.., this could result in no signings at all (maybe loans) and several more players having to leave. We will need more profit than this for PSR…, so if Hutchinson has to be sold as a consequence of a clause that didn’t protect the club, are we still team Ashton? …, we need to start having agency and accountability if we want to improve and be elite.. nobody at this level is making these consistent mistakes. You can’t be as bad as we’ve been off the pitch, and be successful on it, it’s impossible at this level. |
So many points are off piste here, it's not even worth commenting on the specifics. | | | |
| If Phil had run a story in Mid August last year on 10:16 - Apr 10 with 2058 views | SuffolkPunchFC |
Interesting perspective - you're absolutely right, it would have been viewed as genius.
Much of what is being posted by some on the forum right now is with the benefit of hindsight. Very few on here saw Delap as a potential £50M+ asset 9 months ago.
It's so easy to be critical after the fact, and once everything's played out. | | | |
| If Phil had run a story in Mid August last year on 10:27 - Apr 10 with 2006 views | sjg |
Yeah, because that would have been a zero risk deal, this wasn’t | | | |
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| If Phil had run a story in Mid August last year on 10:39 - Apr 10 with 1956 views | Guthrum |
| If Phil had run a story in Mid August last year on 10:27 - Apr 10 by sjg |
Yeah, because that would have been a zero risk deal, this wasn’t |
The only risk in this deal is that we might have bought a dud for £15m. Which is not a huge punt in Prem terms.
But that isn't what people are annoyed about. It is that their saucer-eyed thirst for huge returns from a player who has turned out to be unexpectedly good (in a role most weren't expecting him to play*) have been dashed by contracural clauses we've know about from pretty early on.
As it is, we're vitually guaranteed a profit if Delap moves on, even after wages. With the additional spending power/PSR leeway that will give us dropping to the Champ.
* Many thought he'd been hired to play wide on the right. | |
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| If Phil had run a story in Mid August last year on 10:45 - Apr 10 with 1901 views | sjg |
| If Phil had run a story in Mid August last year on 10:39 - Apr 10 by Guthrum |
The only risk in this deal is that we might have bought a dud for £15m. Which is not a huge punt in Prem terms.
But that isn't what people are annoyed about. It is that their saucer-eyed thirst for huge returns from a player who has turned out to be unexpectedly good (in a role most weren't expecting him to play*) have been dashed by contracural clauses we've know about from pretty early on.
As it is, we're vitually guaranteed a profit if Delap moves on, even after wages. With the additional spending power/PSR leeway that will give us dropping to the Champ.
* Many thought he'd been hired to play wide on the right. |
£15m for one dud is not a huge risk on its own, what if all of the contracts have similar clauses capping our profit at c£5-10m and leaving us exposed to £15m of potential loss? | | | |
| If Phil had run a story in Mid August last year on 10:47 - Apr 10 with 1891 views | Blue_In_Boston |
| If Phil had run a story in Mid August last year on 10:02 - Apr 10 by darkhorse28 |
If my Auntie had ball etc as Mick would have said. That wasn’t the deal, we signed a player, and gave him and future buying clubs ALL the leverage and ourselves none. That did happen. We can conject about discussions. But it shouldn’t be too difficult to get a player and his representatives to ‘back’ their client and assume at his age, he has a huge ceiling and get £40-50 million release.
I don’t see the point protecting Ashton (if this is true). In the context of spending £150 million on EFL level players, chasing KM all summer and giving him a champions league contract, all of which have aged really poorly (being kind) then why is this poor decision out of context or an outlier? It’s been 12 months of really poor strategy, decision making, especially around talent ID and process.
We only have one sellable asset, and if this is true, we’ve made a complete mess of it…, there are consequences with PSR.., this could result in no signings at all (maybe loans) and several more players having to leave. We will need more profit than this for PSR…, so if Hutchinson has to be sold as a consequence of a clause that didn’t protect the club, are we still team Ashton? …, we need to start having agency and accountability if we want to improve and be elite.. nobody at this level is making these consistent mistakes. You can’t be as bad as we’ve been off the pitch, and be successful on it, it’s impossible at this level. |
I completely disagree with you on the Delap contract, it's not ideal but like the OP phrases it, maybe that was our only way of doing the deal.
I do agree with you on KMK, fantastic as he has been for us he was an unknown quantity at the highest level. The PL has chewed up and spat out more experienced and managerial winners from the continent. | | | |
| If Phil had run a story in Mid August last year on 10:50 - Apr 10 with 1856 views | positivity |
| If Phil had run a story in Mid August last year on 10:45 - Apr 10 by sjg |
£15m for one dud is not a huge risk on its own, what if all of the contracts have similar clauses capping our profit at c£5-10m and leaving us exposed to £15m of potential loss? |
if that is the case it is a risk.
however it isn't the case that all the contracts have similar clauses capping our profit at c£5-10m, so not sure what point you're making! | |
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| If Phil had run a story in Mid August last year on 10:52 - Apr 10 with 1842 views | Guthrum |
| If Phil had run a story in Mid August last year on 10:45 - Apr 10 by sjg |
£15m for one dud is not a huge risk on its own, what if all of the contracts have similar clauses capping our profit at c£5-10m and leaving us exposed to £15m of potential loss? |
Firstly, all contracts are individually negotiated.
The £15m loss risk (if that were the fee paid) would exist whatever, as it does with the hiring of any player for any amount.
A profit of £5m-£10m is still a profit. With a release clause, it's a guaranteed minimum, too. On a £15m transfer, that's between 33 and 66 percent. You won't get many investments offering that kind of return on your money. | |
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| If Phil had run a story in Mid August last year on 11:00 - Apr 10 with 1772 views | sjg |
| If Phil had run a story in Mid August last year on 10:52 - Apr 10 by Guthrum |
Firstly, all contracts are individually negotiated.
The £15m loss risk (if that were the fee paid) would exist whatever, as it does with the hiring of any player for any amount.
A profit of £5m-£10m is still a profit. With a release clause, it's a guaranteed minimum, too. On a £15m transfer, that's between 33 and 66 percent. You won't get many investments offering that kind of return on your money. |
Omari also has a £30m relegation release clause | | | |
| If Phil had run a story in Mid August last year on 11:14 - Apr 10 with 1722 views | Guthrum |
| If Phil had run a story in Mid August last year on 11:00 - Apr 10 by sjg |
Omari also has a £30m relegation release clause |
If true, that's £3.4m - £5.5m profit (taking into account a rough guess 15% sell-on for Chelsea and £3m for wages). A 15% to 27.5% return on investment. Not bad for one year. [Post edited 10 Apr 11:19]
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| If Phil had run a story in Mid August last year on 11:26 - Apr 10 with 1662 views | sjg |
| If Phil had run a story in Mid August last year on 11:14 - Apr 10 by Guthrum |
If true, that's £3.4m - £5.5m profit (taking into account a rough guess 15% sell-on for Chelsea and £3m for wages). A 15% to 27.5% return on investment. Not bad for one year. [Post edited 10 Apr 11:19]
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What percentage do you reckon we’ll make on Muric | | | |
| If Phil had run a story in Mid August last year on 11:28 - Apr 10 with 1632 views | SuffolkPunchFC |
| If Phil had run a story in Mid August last year on 11:26 - Apr 10 by sjg |
What percentage do you reckon we’ll make on Muric |
We won't sell Muric IMO. | | | |
| If Phil had run a story in Mid August last year on 11:42 - Apr 10 with 1560 views | LankHenners |
If the situation was entirely different then there may have been a different response, yes.
Not sure what relevance that has. |  |
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| If Phil had run a story in Mid August last year on 11:58 - Apr 10 with 1479 views | Guthrum |
| If Phil had run a story in Mid August last year on 11:26 - Apr 10 by sjg |
What percentage do you reckon we’ll make on Muric |
We probably won't sell him this summer, unless we can pick up someone much better for reasonable money, or he decides he wants to go.
He's still an experienced 'keeper with a Prem record. Reckon we stand a decent chance of covering what we paid for him. | |
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| If Phil had run a story in Mid August last year on 12:02 - Apr 10 with 1454 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| If Phil had run a story in Mid August last year on 10:02 - Apr 10 by darkhorse28 |
If my Auntie had ball etc as Mick would have said. That wasn’t the deal, we signed a player, and gave him and future buying clubs ALL the leverage and ourselves none. That did happen. We can conject about discussions. But it shouldn’t be too difficult to get a player and his representatives to ‘back’ their client and assume at his age, he has a huge ceiling and get £40-50 million release.
I don’t see the point protecting Ashton (if this is true). In the context of spending £150 million on EFL level players, chasing KM all summer and giving him a champions league contract, all of which have aged really poorly (being kind) then why is this poor decision out of context or an outlier? It’s been 12 months of really poor strategy, decision making, especially around talent ID and process.
We only have one sellable asset, and if this is true, we’ve made a complete mess of it…, there are consequences with PSR.., this could result in no signings at all (maybe loans) and several more players having to leave. We will need more profit than this for PSR…, so if Hutchinson has to be sold as a consequence of a clause that didn’t protect the club, are we still team Ashton? …, we need to start having agency and accountability if we want to improve and be elite.. nobody at this level is making these consistent mistakes. You can’t be as bad as we’ve been off the pitch, and be successful on it, it’s impossible at this level. |
You'd rather we hadn't signed Delap at all then? |  |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| If Phil had run a story in Mid August last year on 12:04 - Apr 10 with 1441 views | NeedhamChris |
| If Phil had run a story in Mid August last year on 12:02 - Apr 10 by The_Flashing_Smile |
You'd rather we hadn't signed Delap at all then? |
That seems to be the suggestion - which I find a bit mad. He was a great signing - that has proven to be too good for us to hold onto. | |
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| If Phil had run a story in Mid August last year on 17:11 - Apr 10 with 1047 views | Wright1 |
| If Phil had run a story in Mid August last year on 10:02 - Apr 10 by darkhorse28 |
If my Auntie had ball etc as Mick would have said. That wasn’t the deal, we signed a player, and gave him and future buying clubs ALL the leverage and ourselves none. That did happen. We can conject about discussions. But it shouldn’t be too difficult to get a player and his representatives to ‘back’ their client and assume at his age, he has a huge ceiling and get £40-50 million release.
I don’t see the point protecting Ashton (if this is true). In the context of spending £150 million on EFL level players, chasing KM all summer and giving him a champions league contract, all of which have aged really poorly (being kind) then why is this poor decision out of context or an outlier? It’s been 12 months of really poor strategy, decision making, especially around talent ID and process.
We only have one sellable asset, and if this is true, we’ve made a complete mess of it…, there are consequences with PSR.., this could result in no signings at all (maybe loans) and several more players having to leave. We will need more profit than this for PSR…, so if Hutchinson has to be sold as a consequence of a clause that didn’t protect the club, are we still team Ashton? …, we need to start having agency and accountability if we want to improve and be elite.. nobody at this level is making these consistent mistakes. You can’t be as bad as we’ve been off the pitch, and be successful on it, it’s impossible at this level. |
I mean, this is just nonsense.
If we spent £150m and they are all on 4 years contracts that works out at £37.5m per year on the books. We get £45m in parachute payments. Plus what? £30m in general revenue? Leaving us approx. £40m in profit before operating costs and most of the players we will take in to next season will be on relatively modest wages.
The entirety of a sale value, minus the book value which worst case is £16m for Delap and likely less, goes on the books for the year. So that's another £14m Taking us up to nearly £55m in profit before selling anyone else.
How much do you really think we need to spend to compete at the top of the Championship? Because I don't think it will take a lot if we keep McKenna. | | | |
| If Phil had run a story in Mid August last year on 17:19 - Apr 10 with 1026 views | SuffolkPunchFC |
| If Phil had run a story in Mid August last year on 17:11 - Apr 10 by Wright1 |
I mean, this is just nonsense.
If we spent £150m and they are all on 4 years contracts that works out at £37.5m per year on the books. We get £45m in parachute payments. Plus what? £30m in general revenue? Leaving us approx. £40m in profit before operating costs and most of the players we will take in to next season will be on relatively modest wages.
The entirety of a sale value, minus the book value which worst case is £16m for Delap and likely less, goes on the books for the year. So that's another £14m Taking us up to nearly £55m in profit before selling anyone else.
How much do you really think we need to spend to compete at the top of the Championship? Because I don't think it will take a lot if we keep McKenna. |
Better than that - the parachute payment should be £55m next season based on recent yearly increases. | | | |
| If Phil had run a story in Mid August last year on 17:21 - Apr 10 with 1008 views | Herbivore |
| If Phil had run a story in Mid August last year on 10:27 - Apr 10 by sjg |
Yeah, because that would have been a zero risk deal, this wasn’t |
If everyone is going to use hindsight to say the deal was a terrible one, we can also use hindsight to say there was no risk, it turned out to be an excellent signing. |  |
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