| Perspective is needed... 11:34 - Mar 28 with 4127 views | Westcountryblue |
I continue to be amazed at just how short-sighted those attacking Mark Ashton continue to be. Have you had your eyes shut to what’s actually happening at this club over the past 5 years, as we've been dragged out of the dark ages and turned into a competitive, ambitious and forward-thinking club. The vitriolic bile that continues to be aimed in his direction totally and utterly forgets the fact that HE is the person that has essentially strengthened the link that ITFC has to the communities and underrepresented elements of it.
Look at the facts before you continue to character assassinate without any facts or evidence:
The Women’s Team: They aren't a side-project anymore. It's an incredibly well-run and professional whole setup who have played Portman Road in front of 10k+ crowds, and are making sure they have access to the same facilities the first team have.
The Foundation: He took a department with 3 staff and increased it to nearly 30 (or around that figure i believe). They’re out there every week reaching thousands of people in Suffolk.
Genuine inclusion: Weekly LGBTQ+ sessions, support and awareness for a wide variety of supporters' groups, a proper PA/Carer Network for disabled fans, and things like the Golden Days Café for people with dementia.There's been other stuff like opening Genesis Orwell Mencap and setting up the Empower Hub in high-deprivation areas.
Fact of the matter is, this club has never been more engaged than it currently is within the community, supporting the underrepresented and those in need. Whether you dislike the man or not, he has delivered more in the past in four years than the previous lot did in fifteen. Get some perspective! |  | | |  |
| Perspective is needed... on 11:38 - Mar 28 with 2350 views | jasondozzell |
Ashton is no doubt an effective operator in the industry.
That doesn't change the fact that he's shown himself to lack the true qualities of leadership.
Read about his tenure at Watford and Bristol C.
He's got an ego the size of a house. And he's brought the club inyo disrepute and is unrepentant.
He was an opportunist when the Americans arrived with money. He wouldn't have been here otherwise.
Some things are bigger than feel good success and short term enjoyment.
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| Perspective is needed... on 11:38 - Mar 28 with 2342 views | Guthrum |
Which is why it's so odd - shocking, even - that he has been associating with Farage. Which is the true Mark Ashton? The one who has been talking about community involvement for 30 years and done all that stuff at Town (with real enthusiasm), or the one courting Reform and all they stand for? |  |
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| Perspective is needed... on 11:39 - Mar 28 with 2336 views | Horsham |
Valid to point this out.
I’d have thought Ashton would have been wise to mention some of this in his apology video.
But he didn’t.
Why didn’t he? |  | | |
| Perspective is needed... on 11:39 - Mar 28 with 2333 views | MattinLondon |
Two opposite things can be true.
1. He’s has been very good in his role.
2. He’s a lying, deceitful weasel who cuddled up to a far-right politician and in so doing tarnished the reputation of the club. [Post edited 28 Mar 11:46]
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| Perspective is needed... on 11:45 - Mar 28 with 2307 views | Westcountryblue |
| Perspective is needed... on 11:38 - Mar 28 by jasondozzell |
Ashton is no doubt an effective operator in the industry.
That doesn't change the fact that he's shown himself to lack the true qualities of leadership.
Read about his tenure at Watford and Bristol C.
He's got an ego the size of a house. And he's brought the club inyo disrepute and is unrepentant.
He was an opportunist when the Americans arrived with money. He wouldn't have been here otherwise.
Some things are bigger than feel good success and short term enjoyment.
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I'm interested in the point you make about his ego. Several supporters have eluded to this.
Is there any concrete evidence to back this up? Or are you talking from personal experience having met him or been in close proximity?
The line between being a confident self-assured man can often get misconstrued with having an ego, so just wanting to see if there is evidence to avoid unfounded character assassination. [Post edited 28 Mar 11:46]
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| Perspective is needed... on 11:49 - Mar 28 with 2251 views | StokieBlue |
So what you're essentially saying is that lying is fine as long as you've done other good things in the past?
Also it's a mild form of gaslighting to say there are no facts or evidence. It's becoming pretty clear what happened and what has happened since.
SB [Post edited 28 Mar 11:50]
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| Avatar - M101 - Pinwheel Galaxy |
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| Perspective is needed... on 11:50 - Mar 28 with 2246 views | Westcountryblue |
| Perspective is needed... on 11:38 - Mar 28 by jasondozzell |
Ashton is no doubt an effective operator in the industry.
That doesn't change the fact that he's shown himself to lack the true qualities of leadership.
Read about his tenure at Watford and Bristol C.
He's got an ego the size of a house. And he's brought the club inyo disrepute and is unrepentant.
He was an opportunist when the Americans arrived with money. He wouldn't have been here otherwise.
Some things are bigger than feel good success and short term enjoyment.
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Has any ITFC leader had the full house of outstanding leadership traits and qualities ?
What consistes to 'true leadership' ? Virtue? Ambition? Empathy? Decisiveness? Leadership is a big term to define.
I'd argued that very few the previous leaders of this club showed any interest in the community and unrepresented groups, some of which in need of support. | | | |
| Perspective is needed... on 11:51 - Mar 28 with 2236 views | jasondozzell |
| Perspective is needed... on 11:45 - Mar 28 by Westcountryblue |
I'm interested in the point you make about his ego. Several supporters have eluded to this.
Is there any concrete evidence to back this up? Or are you talking from personal experience having met him or been in close proximity?
The line between being a confident self-assured man can often get misconstrued with having an ego, so just wanting to see if there is evidence to avoid unfounded character assassination. [Post edited 28 Mar 11:46]
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Little detail from the Watford Observer article: he told the paper that they would need to pay £1000 to run the player of the year competition they had run for decades previously.
The touchline antics at Lincoln.
The way he talks about himself in the third person and treats the club like his fiefdom.
It's always been about him. | | | |
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| Perspective is needed... on 11:51 - Mar 28 with 2226 views | jasondozzell |
| Perspective is needed... on 11:50 - Mar 28 by Westcountryblue |
Has any ITFC leader had the full house of outstanding leadership traits and qualities ?
What consistes to 'true leadership' ? Virtue? Ambition? Empathy? Decisiveness? Leadership is a big term to define.
I'd argued that very few the previous leaders of this club showed any interest in the community and unrepresented groups, some of which in need of support. |
Rule number one of leadership: integrity. | | | |
| Perspective is needed... on 11:55 - Mar 28 with 2220 views | Westcountryblue |
| Perspective is needed... on 11:49 - Mar 28 by StokieBlue |
So what you're essentially saying is that lying is fine as long as you've done other good things in the past?
Also it's a mild form of gaslighting to say there are no facts or evidence. It's becoming pretty clear what happened and what has happened since.
SB [Post edited 28 Mar 11:50]
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That's interesting. What makes it "pretty clear"? Do you have firm evidence to substantiate anything you've just said, or is it just your hunch that you're putting across forcefully in the hope that your tone helps it stick?
Do you think all CEOs have that perfect home run throughout their careers, flawlessly nailing every decision they make? I'd say Ashton's hit rate is pretty good.
I'm interested to hear your perspective. | | | |
| Perspective is needed... on 11:59 - Mar 28 with 2199 views | Westcountryblue |
| Perspective is needed... on 11:38 - Mar 28 by jasondozzell |
Ashton is no doubt an effective operator in the industry.
That doesn't change the fact that he's shown himself to lack the true qualities of leadership.
Read about his tenure at Watford and Bristol C.
He's got an ego the size of a house. And he's brought the club inyo disrepute and is unrepentant.
He was an opportunist when the Americans arrived with money. He wouldn't have been here otherwise.
Some things are bigger than feel good success and short term enjoyment.
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He worked with the Yanks first and then recommended the club as a suitable investment for them.
If you doubt this, you can fact check with the powers that be on this website, as i shared the story via a contact in the industry. | | | |
| Perspective is needed... on 12:01 - Mar 28 with 2162 views | jasondozzell |
| Perspective is needed... on 11:59 - Mar 28 by Westcountryblue |
He worked with the Yanks first and then recommended the club as a suitable investment for them.
If you doubt this, you can fact check with the powers that be on this website, as i shared the story via a contact in the industry. |
I'm well aware of that. He met them at a industry conference in the states.
He has an eye for the main opportunity. | | | |
| Perspective is needed... on 12:04 - Mar 28 with 2156 views | StokieBlue |
| Perspective is needed... on 11:55 - Mar 28 by Westcountryblue |
That's interesting. What makes it "pretty clear"? Do you have firm evidence to substantiate anything you've just said, or is it just your hunch that you're putting across forcefully in the hope that your tone helps it stick?
Do you think all CEOs have that perfect home run throughout their careers, flawlessly nailing every decision they make? I'd say Ashton's hit rate is pretty good.
I'm interested to hear your perspective. |
Firstly, I wouldn't say I was putting anything across forcefully.
We know a lot now, it's not really unacceptable to make out that we don't.
- Farage was invited to the club (denied by the club but confirmed through other sources)
- Farage had lunch with Ashton (denied by the club but confirmed through other sources)
- The club gave him 6 printed tops (denied by the club but confirmed through other sources)
- Reform were allowed to make the video
- The club (and by extension) Ashton lied about all of the above to fans and the local media.
- Ashton didn't apologise for any of the above or anything specific.
"Do you think all CEOs have that perfect home run throughout their careers, flawlessly nailing every decision they make? I'd say Ashton's hit rate is pretty good."
You're missing the point entirely, you've listed a number of football related things which are good but ignore the entire point that he's lied. My point is that you are essentially saying that as long as the football side of stuff is fine it's also fine for him to lie to the fanbase.
Many would disagree.
SB | |
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| Perspective is needed... on 12:07 - Mar 28 with 2106 views | Wallingford_Boy |
Well said, but Stokie won’t like it! |  |
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| Perspective is needed... on 12:08 - Mar 28 with 2128 views | StokieBlue |
| Perspective is needed... on 12:07 - Mar 28 by Wallingford_Boy |
Well said, but Stokie won’t like it! |
Can you please stop referring to me in posts when I've not addressed you?
It's becoming very weird.
SB | |
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| Perspective is needed... on 12:10 - Mar 28 with 2116 views | Westcountryblue |
| Perspective is needed... on 12:01 - Mar 28 by jasondozzell |
I'm well aware of that. He met them at a industry conference in the states.
He has an eye for the main opportunity. |
What's wrong with having an eye for an opportunity? Is there something wrong that?
I've actually met Mark Ashton when he was at Bristol. The main purpose of the trip was Lee Johnson who was putting on a training masterclass for some youngsters and in doing so, the coaches observing, but they were both incredibly patient and generous with their time. | | | |
| Perspective is needed... on 12:11 - Mar 28 with 2111 views | grow_our_own |
| Perspective is needed... on 11:39 - Mar 28 by MattinLondon |
Two opposite things can be true.
1. He’s has been very good in his role.
2. He’s a lying, deceitful weasel who cuddled up to a far-right politician and in so doing tarnished the reputation of the club. [Post edited 28 Mar 11:46]
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1. Has he? Most of our major signings that Ashton brokered are languishing outside the first team or are out on loan. Ashton performed in proportion to the size of our budget vs our competitors in L1. I'll give him that he did recruit KM. But beyond that, it's all to be expected given Ipswich are a community club, and we've had the cash to spend on Cat 1 & the training ground. Nothing that counterbalances your #2. We can and will do better than him. [Post edited 28 Mar 12:19]
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| Perspective is needed... on 12:13 - Mar 28 with 2101 views | ZedRodgers |
In this role, rightly or wrongly, you are only as good as your last mistake. And when your last mistake happens to be inviting a divisive politician to the club, lying about it, allowing the divisive politician to use the club for PR, feeding more lies to the local press, and making absolutely no attempt to acknowledge or clarify any of it, I make you no longer fit for the role, regardless of whatever you may have done previously. |  |
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| Perspective is needed... on 12:14 - Mar 28 with 2094 views | Bellevue_Blue |
| Perspective is needed... on 12:04 - Mar 28 by StokieBlue |
Firstly, I wouldn't say I was putting anything across forcefully.
We know a lot now, it's not really unacceptable to make out that we don't.
- Farage was invited to the club (denied by the club but confirmed through other sources)
- Farage had lunch with Ashton (denied by the club but confirmed through other sources)
- The club gave him 6 printed tops (denied by the club but confirmed through other sources)
- Reform were allowed to make the video
- The club (and by extension) Ashton lied about all of the above to fans and the local media.
- Ashton didn't apologise for any of the above or anything specific.
"Do you think all CEOs have that perfect home run throughout their careers, flawlessly nailing every decision they make? I'd say Ashton's hit rate is pretty good."
You're missing the point entirely, you've listed a number of football related things which are good but ignore the entire point that he's lied. My point is that you are essentially saying that as long as the football side of stuff is fine it's also fine for him to lie to the fanbase.
Many would disagree.
SB |
There are a few white lies of course. He clearly didn’t expect the backlash or the level of public interest, and that’s where he got it wrong.
I don’t know what you do for work SB, but I’d be surprised if you’ve never told a white lie or two to get yourself or your colleagues/ team out of a hole.
Leaders are held to a totally different standard, that’s part of the job and he’s been near perfect for 5+ years.
The idea that his whole premiership is now compromised feels a bit over the top to me. | | | |
| Perspective is needed... on 12:18 - Mar 28 with 2066 views | Westcountryblue |
| Perspective is needed... on 12:04 - Mar 28 by StokieBlue |
Firstly, I wouldn't say I was putting anything across forcefully.
We know a lot now, it's not really unacceptable to make out that we don't.
- Farage was invited to the club (denied by the club but confirmed through other sources)
- Farage had lunch with Ashton (denied by the club but confirmed through other sources)
- The club gave him 6 printed tops (denied by the club but confirmed through other sources)
- Reform were allowed to make the video
- The club (and by extension) Ashton lied about all of the above to fans and the local media.
- Ashton didn't apologise for any of the above or anything specific.
"Do you think all CEOs have that perfect home run throughout their careers, flawlessly nailing every decision they make? I'd say Ashton's hit rate is pretty good."
You're missing the point entirely, you've listed a number of football related things which are good but ignore the entire point that he's lied. My point is that you are essentially saying that as long as the football side of stuff is fine it's also fine for him to lie to the fanbase.
Many would disagree.
SB |
Confirmed through other sources? That's not particularly concrete, and it's a little naive to assume that national media and indeed the ITFC informant (who is unlikely to be working at executive level) have everything bang on. Sorry, but "other sources" seems to be a recurring theme in your posts, and I'm sure you understand the importance of substantiating points, a two sided arguement and the concept of validity.
I'll ask the same question again: do you think all CEOs have a perfect home run throughout their careers, flawlessly nailing every decision they make?
I'll also follow that up with a further question: do you think the CEOs of publicly listed companies are gospel in everything they communicate with shareholders? | | | |
| Perspective is needed... on 12:18 - Mar 28 with 2065 views | StokieBlue |
| Perspective is needed... on 12:14 - Mar 28 by Bellevue_Blue |
There are a few white lies of course. He clearly didn’t expect the backlash or the level of public interest, and that’s where he got it wrong.
I don’t know what you do for work SB, but I’d be surprised if you’ve never told a white lie or two to get yourself or your colleagues/ team out of a hole.
Leaders are held to a totally different standard, that’s part of the job and he’s been near perfect for 5+ years.
The idea that his whole premiership is now compromised feels a bit over the top to me. |
White lies? He lied to the entire fanbase and the local media, in fact he totally denied what happened. He then didn't specifically apologise for it.
I guess it depends what your threshold for these things are but I suspect many aren't happy about it and many will ignore it and carry on.
That is why this has become so divisive.
SB | |
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| Perspective is needed... on 12:22 - Mar 28 with 2045 views | Westcountryblue |
| Perspective is needed... on 11:51 - Mar 28 by jasondozzell |
Little detail from the Watford Observer article: he told the paper that they would need to pay £1000 to run the player of the year competition they had run for decades previously.
The touchline antics at Lincoln.
The way he talks about himself in the third person and treats the club like his fiefdom.
It's always been about him. |
''The way he talks about himself in the third person and treats the club like his fiefdom'' is this your own personal take, or can you actually back this up ?
The Lincoln 'antics'. I seem to recall him celebrating wildly with the fans ? Whether that was sincere or not, i believe it was well recieved by our away supporters, that had been kept at arms length and for many years, not even seen a public picture of the owner of their club. [Post edited 28 Mar 12:26]
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| Perspective is needed... on 12:25 - Mar 28 with 2022 views | StokieBlue |
| Perspective is needed... on 12:18 - Mar 28 by Westcountryblue |
Confirmed through other sources? That's not particularly concrete, and it's a little naive to assume that national media and indeed the ITFC informant (who is unlikely to be working at executive level) have everything bang on. Sorry, but "other sources" seems to be a recurring theme in your posts, and I'm sure you understand the importance of substantiating points, a two sided arguement and the concept of validity.
I'll ask the same question again: do you think all CEOs have a perfect home run throughout their careers, flawlessly nailing every decision they make?
I'll also follow that up with a further question: do you think the CEOs of publicly listed companies are gospel in everything they communicate with shareholders? |
"Confirmed through other sources? That's not particularly concrete, and it's a little naive to assume that national media and indeed the ITFC informant (who is unlikely to be working at executive level) have everything bang on. "
The Athletic is a well respected international news agency. I doubt they would run with something if they weren't pretty sure it was true. Why didn't Ashton come out and deny it in his interview?
"Sorry, but "other sources" seems to be a recurring theme in your posts"
Show me where this is the case. Give examples because that's not a great accusation.
"I'll ask the same question again: do you think all CEOs have a perfect home run throughout their careers, flawlessly nailing every decision they make?"
This is whatabouterry and I've already covered it. The football stuff up until this point as been good, lying to fans and the media is not good. You're willing to excuse the second part because the first part has been good. Many fans aren't as you can see from reading the forum.
Not really much more either of us can say, you think it's fine, I don't think it's great. Each to their own.
SB | |
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| Perspective is needed... on 12:28 - Mar 28 with 1994 views | TheMoralMajority |
| Perspective is needed... on 12:22 - Mar 28 by Westcountryblue |
''The way he talks about himself in the third person and treats the club like his fiefdom'' is this your own personal take, or can you actually back this up ?
The Lincoln 'antics'. I seem to recall him celebrating wildly with the fans ? Whether that was sincere or not, i believe it was well recieved by our away supporters, that had been kept at arms length and for many years, not even seen a public picture of the owner of their club. [Post edited 28 Mar 12:26]
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None of what you are saying is necessarily untrue, it can be debated how successful he has been prior to this week, but it is hard to debate that the club is very much now in the best state it has been in for decades and that is, in no small part, to Ashton.
However, it can also be true that for a significant proportion of fans, promoting a political party of any stripe is divisive and not acceptable. Repeatedly lying about how much involvement he had in said promotion is a step to far. Then gaslighting the fans about the club's political stance and history topped off by an "admit nothing" apology is a step further.
For many, this crosses the line, for others (you included) it does not. That is fair enough. Why are you unable to accept a view that is not your own? |  |
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| Perspective is needed... on 12:29 - Mar 28 with 1989 views | Bellevue_Blue |
| Perspective is needed... on 12:18 - Mar 28 by StokieBlue |
White lies? He lied to the entire fanbase and the local media, in fact he totally denied what happened. He then didn't specifically apologise for it.
I guess it depends what your threshold for these things are but I suspect many aren't happy about it and many will ignore it and carry on.
That is why this has become so divisive.
SB |
Yes but the lies are totally harmless, hence white lies. It harms nobody if the club bought the shirts, harms nobody if he had lunch with Farage etc etc. The only harmful thing was the reform promotional video and I don't think any details have come out about content capture etc.
We don't know everything that happens behind close doors at ITFC and nor should we. I suspect he and Mckenna told a few white lies when he was close to joining Brighton a few summers ago.
Politics is just that much more sensitive and that was his misjudgement.
We all tell white lies, that is the point. Our threshold in our own lives is very high. We should expect more from MA as a figure head for our club, but he's lived up to a very very high standard for 5+ years.
We can't and should not expect perfection in everything that he does. [Post edited 28 Mar 12:30]
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