| Loans and Making Good Use of Em 09:06 - Aug 13 with 1781 views | Metal_Hacker |
Where do we think this might take us when dip our toe in to the loan market
I'm of the opinion we might have to utilise this with regards to a No9 perhaps
Thinking along the lines of a few names -
Chris Wood or Awoniyi from Forest , Osula from Newcastle dare I say Delap or Guiu from Chelsea
Thoughts ? |  |
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| Loans and Making Good Use of Em on 09:10 - Aug 13 with 1743 views | John_Warks_Willy |
This isn’t a slight on your post and it avoids the question, but I’m a bit old school when it comes to loans still. I like to own a player, and I like that player to be fully invested in the season and long term project with some accountability/ pressure.
I know there are some cracking loan deals that have worked wonders for us and they’re a necessity, but, you know.
I was super pleased to see Enciso will now be permanent 👌 [Post edited 13 Aug 9:11]
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| Loans and Making Good Use of Em on 09:17 - Aug 13 with 1677 views | Bellevue_Blue |
Straight loans in the PL are pretty pointless IMO. It only really makes sense if it has an option or obligation attached to it.
I do think we will do that with whoever the other 9 is. Awonyi makes a load of sense. |  | | |
| Loans and Making Good Use of Em on 09:20 - Aug 13 with 1639 views | Wallingford_Boy |
I think we'll get a more experienced new number 9 and more likely to be a perm.
Can't see the likes of Chris Wood going on loan, what's the point?
If we utilise the loan market, it will be for some promising youngster, wanting to get minutes at a lower level Prem team and that won't be a 9, as we already have Emersonn in that role.
IMO. |  |
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| Loans and Making Good Use of Em on 09:24 - Aug 13 with 1612 views | Guthrum |
| Loans and Making Good Use of Em on 09:17 - Aug 13 by Bellevue_Blue |
Straight loans in the PL are pretty pointless IMO. It only really makes sense if it has an option or obligation attached to it.
I do think we will do that with whoever the other 9 is. Awonyi makes a load of sense. |
They can be useful to get a couple of U21s from the hoards of Chelsea or wherever, just to add a potential sprinkle of flair and talent without risking too much. |  |
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| Loans and Making Good Use of Em on 09:24 - Aug 13 with 1607 views | gordon |
Yeah, think we're going to move more and more towards a Brighton / Strasbourg / Chelsea type player trading model, where squad places are valuable and are for either players who can appreciate in value significantly or markedly improve our chances of staying up. So the days of those speculative one-year loans for players who hardly get a game are over, and guys like Hirst or Johnson, who once would have been seen as useful squad players / reliable deputies are much less valued. |  | | |
| Loans and Making Good Use of Em on 09:31 - Aug 13 with 1506 views | SuffolkPunchFC |
| Loans and Making Good Use of Em on 09:17 - Aug 13 by Bellevue_Blue |
Straight loans in the PL are pretty pointless IMO. It only really makes sense if it has an option or obligation attached to it.
I do think we will do that with whoever the other 9 is. Awonyi makes a load of sense. |
This for me is key. A player may be reluctant to sign permanently for a newly promoted club, but agree to a loan with an obligation to make it permanent if the club stays up.
That often suits both parties - protects the player from relegation, but provides the club with a longer term signing provided they avoid relegation.
It's ultimately just an alternative to a permanent signing with a relegation release clause, but less risk financially for the club (although also potentially less reward) | | | |
| Loans and Making Good Use of Em on 09:33 - Aug 13 with 1515 views | Bellevue_Blue |
| Loans and Making Good Use of Em on 09:20 - Aug 13 by Wallingford_Boy |
I think we'll get a more experienced new number 9 and more likely to be a perm.
Can't see the likes of Chris Wood going on loan, what's the point?
If we utilise the loan market, it will be for some promising youngster, wanting to get minutes at a lower level Prem team and that won't be a 9, as we already have Emersonn in that role.
IMO. |
Two reasons. It is a good cost spreading exercise for us.
Instead of spending 10M (or whatever it is) and ammortising it from this summer, you start it from next summer.
It gives the player a degree of protection if the loan becomes permanent on staying in the league etc.
Far less likely to take on a promising youngster because they have to have minutes. | | | |
| Loans and Making Good Use of Em on 09:33 - Aug 13 with 1510 views | Wright1 |
| Loans and Making Good Use of Em on 09:10 - Aug 13 by John_Warks_Willy |
This isn’t a slight on your post and it avoids the question, but I’m a bit old school when it comes to loans still. I like to own a player, and I like that player to be fully invested in the season and long term project with some accountability/ pressure.
I know there are some cracking loan deals that have worked wonders for us and they’re a necessity, but, you know.
I was super pleased to see Enciso will now be permanent 👌 [Post edited 13 Aug 9:11]
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On the flip side, it sometimes gives you a chance to land a better player who you couldn't usually afford or convince to come here permanently - particularly in our position. | | | |
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| Loans and Making Good Use of Em on 09:35 - Aug 13 with 1484 views | Wallingford_Boy |
| Loans and Making Good Use of Em on 09:33 - Aug 13 by Bellevue_Blue |
Two reasons. It is a good cost spreading exercise for us.
Instead of spending 10M (or whatever it is) and ammortising it from this summer, you start it from next summer.
It gives the player a degree of protection if the loan becomes permanent on staying in the league etc.
Far less likely to take on a promising youngster because they have to have minutes. |
Disagree, I think any loans we get will be for promising youngsters.
The new no.9 we get (assuming we get one), will be a permanent transfer of an experienced player. | |
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| Loans and Making Good Use of Em on 09:45 - Aug 13 with 1417 views | jayessess |
Interestingly, the loan market for Premier League clubs seems to be mainly a way of sidestepping awkward negotiations on experienced players.
In terms of the classic type of loan move - a young player looking for experience to develop and then go back to their parent club - there were basically none at all. Marc Guiu's abortive move to Sunderland was basically the only one.
It seems to only really serve two purposes now - (1) getting a late transfer over the line when negotiations are too complicated and time is running out (2) getting a financial problem off the books, someone occupying squad space and wages who you can't realise any value on.
I'd guess Wood, Delap or someone like Tyrone Mings might potentially fit that definition, depending on how squad planning and sales go at their respective clubs. |  |
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| Loans and Making Good Use of Em on 09:55 - Aug 13 with 1364 views | southnorfolkblue |
| Loans and Making Good Use of Em on 09:17 - Aug 13 by Bellevue_Blue |
Straight loans in the PL are pretty pointless IMO. It only really makes sense if it has an option or obligation attached to it.
I do think we will do that with whoever the other 9 is. Awonyi makes a load of sense. |
Not sure I agree with that tbh, but a loan does have to bring an X factor ie a Gio, Bullard (loan period only) otherwise it’s pointless as you say.
Abraham or Delap would be obvious loan shouts for me | |
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| Loans and Making Good Use of Em on 10:05 - Aug 13 with 1301 views | Len_Brennan |
I think Delap is the kind of player who could end up going 'somewhere' on loan late on. Chelsea are looking for £50m, so even Everton & Newcastle may baulk at paying that outright, for an as yet, one season wonder who has looked well off it since leaving us.
A loan with an obligation upon reaching certain milestones, may suit the buying clubs, while even a straight loan might suit Chelsea, given his contract length, to a side that will play him week in/week out & probably see him regain his 'true' value in the eyes of possible suitors. | |
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| Loans and Making Good Use of Em on 10:07 - Aug 13 with 1278 views | Bellevue_Blue |
| Loans and Making Good Use of Em on 09:35 - Aug 13 by Wallingford_Boy |
Disagree, I think any loans we get will be for promising youngsters.
The new no.9 we get (assuming we get one), will be a permanent transfer of an experienced player. |
Which promising youngsters get into our first team?
If they are good enough for our first team, they are probably in the first team squads of City/ Chelsea/ Arsenal/ Liverpool etc
If they are good enough, then the next question is ... does it benefit us enough to take minutes away from a player we own?
9 times out of 10 the answer to that question is probably no. [Post edited 13 Aug 10:11]
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| Loans and Making Good Use of Em on 10:11 - Aug 13 with 1242 views | Bellevue_Blue |
| Loans and Making Good Use of Em on 09:55 - Aug 13 by southnorfolkblue |
Not sure I agree with that tbh, but a loan does have to bring an X factor ie a Gio, Bullard (loan period only) otherwise it’s pointless as you say.
Abraham or Delap would be obvious loan shouts for me |
There is no benefit to Villa or Chelsea in loaning out either one of those players without an obligation.
If they have a bad season with us, their value goes through the floor. | | | |
| Loans and Making Good Use of Em on 10:13 - Aug 13 with 1221 views | Wallingford_Boy |
| Loans and Making Good Use of Em on 10:11 - Aug 13 by Bellevue_Blue |
There is no benefit to Villa or Chelsea in loaning out either one of those players without an obligation.
If they have a bad season with us, their value goes through the floor. |
But isn't that the risk and how it's always worked?
What if they have a good season?
The parent club gets a confident and in form player back, or their value goes up and they can flog for more. | |
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| Loans and Making Good Use of Em on 10:39 - Aug 13 with 1135 views | jayessess |
| Loans and Making Good Use of Em on 10:13 - Aug 13 by Wallingford_Boy |
But isn't that the risk and how it's always worked?
What if they have a good season?
The parent club gets a confident and in form player back, or their value goes up and they can flog for more. |
I think that calculation has changed now. Last season there were basically zero young players loaned to other Premier League clubs for development purposes. Sunderland took Marc Guiu but Chelsea recalled him before the window closed and that was basically the only one that happened.
Season before that you are looking at Facundo Buonanotte going to Leicester (who did OK) and Lesley Ugochukwu at Southampton (did very little).
Think most PL youth loans at a quality level we'd actually want are now happening in the Championship or overseas (or often just adding free squad depth to the parent club). [Post edited 13 Aug 10:40]
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| Loans and Making Good Use of Em on 11:01 - Aug 13 with 1047 views | Litfc00 |
| Loans and Making Good Use of Em on 09:33 - Aug 13 by Wright1 |
On the flip side, it sometimes gives you a chance to land a better player who you couldn't usually afford or convince to come here permanently - particularly in our position. |
Ethan Nwaneri / Josh Acheampong would be great straight loan deals. | | | |
| Loans and Making Good Use of Em on 11:19 - Aug 13 with 965 views | gordon |
| Loans and Making Good Use of Em on 10:39 - Aug 13 by jayessess |
I think that calculation has changed now. Last season there were basically zero young players loaned to other Premier League clubs for development purposes. Sunderland took Marc Guiu but Chelsea recalled him before the window closed and that was basically the only one that happened.
Season before that you are looking at Facundo Buonanotte going to Leicester (who did OK) and Lesley Ugochukwu at Southampton (did very little).
Think most PL youth loans at a quality level we'd actually want are now happening in the Championship or overseas (or often just adding free squad depth to the parent club). [Post edited 13 Aug 10:40]
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There was also Buonanotte from Brighton to Chelsea last year, which was bizarre. | | | |
| Loans and Making Good Use of Em on 11:23 - Aug 13 with 937 views | Bellevue_Blue |
| Loans and Making Good Use of Em on 10:13 - Aug 13 by Wallingford_Boy |
But isn't that the risk and how it's always worked?
What if they have a good season?
The parent club gets a confident and in form player back, or their value goes up and they can flog for more. |
Their appetite for risk has never been lower and the need for 'pure profit' has never been higher. That's why we have seen less and less of these straight loans.
Big clubs would rather sell their young players with a buy-back clause and if they are half decent, they will buy them back to use them or sell them on again. | | | |
| Loans and Making Good Use of Em on 11:23 - Aug 13 with 929 views | tractordownsouth |
| Loans and Making Good Use of Em on 11:01 - Aug 13 by Litfc00 |
Ethan Nwaneri / Josh Acheampong would be great straight loan deals. |
Matt O'Riley is a more established player I'd be looking at for the deep-lying playmaker role. Was loaned to Marseille last season so might be one we can do with a loan and an option/obligation if we stay up. |  |
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| Loans and Making Good Use of Em on 11:28 - Aug 13 with 910 views | Wright1 |
| Loans and Making Good Use of Em on 11:01 - Aug 13 by Litfc00 |
Ethan Nwaneri / Josh Acheampong would be great straight loan deals. |
Acheampong is a Rolls Royce. Would love him here even if i'm not entirely sure where he fits - primarily I think he sees himself as a right sides centre half... could be a right back option? | | | |
| Loans and Making Good Use of Em on 11:52 - Aug 13 with 817 views | Litfc00 |
| Loans and Making Good Use of Em on 11:23 - Aug 13 by tractordownsouth |
Matt O'Riley is a more established player I'd be looking at for the deep-lying playmaker role. Was loaned to Marseille last season so might be one we can do with a loan and an option/obligation if we stay up. |
Matt O’Riley would be great but that’s a different type of loan to a Nwaneri / Acheampong ‘dry’ loan.
Would imagine that’s one where there’s a permanent deal to be done - but it has to go through as a loan with an obligation so we can delay payment for a year.
Nwaneri would be great RW / 10 Competition
Acheampong as a right back / CB cover but wonder if we’re done with right backs and now loooking for a left back / left centre back hybrid. Yarek Gasiorowski Would be the dream signing but we probably don’t have the finances for that unless PSV agree to a loan with an obligation. [Post edited 13 Aug 11:54]
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| Loans and Making Good Use of Em on 12:23 - Aug 13 with 726 views | jayessess |
| Loans and Making Good Use of Em on 11:52 - Aug 13 by Litfc00 |
Matt O’Riley would be great but that’s a different type of loan to a Nwaneri / Acheampong ‘dry’ loan.
Would imagine that’s one where there’s a permanent deal to be done - but it has to go through as a loan with an obligation so we can delay payment for a year.
Nwaneri would be great RW / 10 Competition
Acheampong as a right back / CB cover but wonder if we’re done with right backs and now loooking for a left back / left centre back hybrid. Yarek Gasiorowski Would be the dream signing but we probably don’t have the finances for that unless PSV agree to a loan with an obligation. [Post edited 13 Aug 11:54]
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Think Nwaneri and Acheampong's parent clubs would want some pretty solid guarantees that they'd be regular starters.
From their perspective you can send these players overseas or to the Championship and not have their squad role as cover for a team that doesn't play like your first team. | |
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| Loans and Making Good Use of Em on 13:24 - Aug 13 with 635 views | Vaughan8 |
| Loans and Making Good Use of Em on 09:10 - Aug 13 by John_Warks_Willy |
This isn’t a slight on your post and it avoids the question, but I’m a bit old school when it comes to loans still. I like to own a player, and I like that player to be fully invested in the season and long term project with some accountability/ pressure.
I know there are some cracking loan deals that have worked wonders for us and they’re a necessity, but, you know.
I was super pleased to see Enciso will now be permanent 👌 [Post edited 13 Aug 9:11]
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It's not about being old school. there were still loans years ago.
Loans can be very good and very useful so to just "not like them" is a bit strange.
You can get a top player for a smaller fee/wages for a season, which could eventually turn permanent. | | | |
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