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To turn up to a negotation without a position is incompetent at best 08:34 - Jul 21 with 9204 views

How can Davis and his team enter negotiations without a calculation method or clear point of view on the costs incurred by Europe for our exit.

Farcical.

Falling at the first hurdle.

Even if it was only 50bn - half Frances expectation - then that humiliates the Leave campaigns 350million a week to the NHS. And now it is proving that Brexit will cost and harm the NHS.

This misadventure needs to stop. We look like bafoons, and we're damaging our country for decades.

Are people still defending their Brexit decision?!? How.

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How many points will Town get from 5 (Wat, Boro, Hull, Cov, Hudd)?

To turn up to a negotation without a position is incompetent at best on 14:41 - Jul 21 with 3054 views

No9

To turn up to a negotation without a position is incompetent at best on 09:27 - Jul 21 by blue_oyster
Exactly. To present it as costs is shameful and should be ignored. The EU will not be reasonable.

Just admit you don't understand

To turn up to a negotation without a position is incompetent at best on 14:43 - Jul 21 with 3054 views

No9

To turn up to a negotation without a position is incompetent at best on 09:51 - Jul 21 by Guthrum
To let the UK off entirely would mean several EU projects/budgets having to take a sizeable hit (or other countries needing to compensate for the shortfall). Unsurprising they're fighting to retain their funding.

Then there are the commmitment the UK got the EU to make on the basis the tory manifesto said we were staying in the EU

To turn up to a negotation without a position is incompetent at best on 14:46 - Jul 21 with 3048 views

No9

To turn up to a negotation without a position is incompetent at best on 10:02 - Jul 21 by GavTWTD

Has anyone detailed what this divorce settlement actually comprises of?

I was told yesterday that Crossrail II is being partly funded by the EU. I've found no evidence that that's true (or even if CR2 is happening), but surely we should have a list of projects that the EU is funding. I know that some sea defences are funded by the EU. Are these what makes up this settlement?

Once you have this list you either say, "yeah fair enough" and pay it or negotiate it.

You can see the EU commitments on the EU website.
e.g. the UK has asked the EU to fund (at least in part) the nuclear power stations

To turn up to a negotation without a position is incompetent at best on 16:19 - Jul 21 with 3026 views

BlueBadger

To turn up to a negotation without a position is incompetent at best on 13:29 - Jul 21 by GlasgowBlue
And his Trump blubs. I'll be glad when the season starts and he can go back to starting his posts slagging Mick off.

I think he has to come here blubbing after Mick put all of his friends off of football for life.

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To turn up to a negotation without a position is incompetent at best on 16:46 - Jul 21 with 3015 views

tractordownsouth

To turn up to a negotation without a position is incompetent at best on 11:29 - Jul 21 by GavTWTD

I really don't see a problem with what Vince Cable is proposing, and others before him.

Let May get the best deal possible and let the public decide whether we go with that or stay in the EU.

"Voter fatigue" really isn't enough of a reason not to do this. The original referendum was fought on no basis of facts, so present the two factual options and vote again. People had no idea what they were voting for, just slogans or lies.

Where's my hobnobs.

I agree. Part of democracy is accountability and the right to change your mind. For example, if a government fails to deliver, they are more likely to be voted out at the next election -
therefore it is fair that we get a choice when the actual deal comes back, not just the Farage smoke and mirrors job of last June. If we still vote to leave, then that is fair enough, but we need to be given the facts before we make an informed decision on the actual realities of Brexit. Of course, the hardcore Brexiteers will just shout Remoaner at anyone who disagrees.

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To turn up to a negotation without a position is incompetent at best on 17:33 - Jul 21 with 2992 views

No9

To turn up to a negotation without a position is incompetent at best on 16:46 - Jul 21 by tractordownsouth

The problen with another referendum is, many people still don't understand the real issues because the media has never explained anything. It has been left to the shouting from Leave and the crawling from remain over what still is TORY party infighting.

If as reported the rich are getting richer as we move nearer to out then the media is never going to report anything other than out?

To turn up to a negotation without a position is incompetent at best on 19:10 - Jul 21 with 2974 views

vilanovablue

To turn up to a negotation without a position is incompetent at best on 09:22 - Jul 21 by Guthrum
Not so much costs as ongoing expenditure to which the UK may or may not be already committed for a contribution. Hence the controversy about the size of any final settlement of liabilities.

This ^^^ not only will there probably be a one off payment but I also suspect some ongoing payments for projects and probable UK projects that are already in process and yes I do sadly see the irony...

To turn up to a negotation without a position is incompetent at best on 21:56 - Jul 21 with 2951 views

tractordownsouth

To turn up to a negotation without a position is incompetent at best on 17:33 - Jul 21 by No9
The problen with another referendum is, many people still don't understand the real issues because the media has never explained anything. It has been left to the shouting from Leave and the crawling from remain over what still is TORY party infighting. If as reported the rich are getting richer as we move nearer to out then the media is never going to report anything other than out?

Yes that is true. To attract big business investment, unfortunately corporation tax will have to be lowered even further to offset the uncertainty, which will result in more inequality.

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To turn up to a negotation without a position is incompetent at best on 22:23 - Jul 21 with 2939 views

Swansea_Blue

To turn up to a negotation without a position is incompetent at best on 11:28 - Jul 21 by blue_oyster
And what about the services we won't be using after we leave, that we have already paid for? As a net contributor to the EU, this is a larger amount. They owe us. It's amazing how people swallow the propaganda of the EU.

We won't pay for those. They've already said that we should only honour commitments up to the point of departure on a pro rata basis. But a lot of EU budgets are backloaded, so we won't have been due to make payments until after we leave. We can't just walk away from those. Or if we did it wouldn't do much for our chances of having decent relationships in the future.

Poll:

Do you think Pert is key to all of this?

To turn up to a negotation without a position is incompetent at best on 22:31 - Jul 21 with 2934 views

xrayspecs

You have no idea how negotiations work in practice.

It is tactical and deliberate.

To turn up to a negotation without a position is incompetent at best on 22:43 - Jul 21 with 2921 views

Steve_M

To turn up to a negotation without a position is incompetent at best on 22:31 - Jul 21 by xrayspecs
You have no idea how negotiations work in practice. It is tactical and deliberate.

Yes, the evidence of the last thirteen months suggests our Government knows exactly what it's doing.

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To turn up to a negotation without a position is incompetent at best on 22:44 - Jul 21 with 2921 views

Swansea_Blue

To turn up to a negotation without a position is incompetent at best on 22:31 - Jul 21 by xrayspecs
You have no idea how negotiations work in practice. It is tactical and deliberate.

Are you seriously suggesting that the Government have been enacting out a deliberate stratagem over the last 13 months?

Poll:

Do you think Pert is key to all of this?

To turn up to a negotation without a position is incompetent at best on 02:48 - Jul 22 with 2885 views

bournemouthblue

To turn up to a negotation without a position is incompetent at best on 08:48 - Jul 21 by RimmersBrace
I don't know why so much emphasis is being put on a one-off leaving cost. I personally don't think we owe any thing but frankly a one off cost of £50bn is insignificant. It's just like paying our membership for another few years. Considering their will be a implementation period anyway it makes no odds.

It doesn't really matter what you think, from a legal point of view there will be obligations we have to fulfill

It's a bit like settling a phone contract early

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To turn up to a negotation without a position is incompetent at best on 06:02 - Jul 22 with 2882 views

xrayspecs

To turn up to a negotation without a position is incompetent at best on 22:44 - Jul 21 by Swansea_Blue
Are you seriously suggesting that the Government have been enacting out a deliberate stratagem over the last 13 months?

UK govt has published its position on a number of topics. The EU has done the same. There are areas we agree on and some where we do not. There are areas where more work is needed e.g. future regulation of medicines across Europe. These become quite detailed and technical issues that will need working through.

The EU position on many of these issues is ill thought through - that the UK is leaving the EU and we will simply no longer be part of EU various arrangements. What they fail to recognise is that we are inextricably linked and that a simple separation is in many ways impractical and in others damaging to EU. Think about the management of the airways, security, regulation of many sectors, including medicine.

Worth noting that it is the EU who are doing all the talking about the UK not being prepared. Playing to their audience no doubt.

Judge the negotiators on where we land rather than the siren calls of the vested interests.

To turn up to a negotation without a position is incompetent at best on 06:14 - Jul 22 with 2875 views

RimmersBrace

The legal position under the EU treaties is that we don't have to pay anything for future EU commitments. A bit like if I sell my shares in BT I don't then have to pay for their pension scheme. We can, if we choose, just walk away and pay nothing. We can kick out all EU citizens if we wish too.

BUT, if we do this, we won't get any sort of trade deal.

So in summary, all this is a negotiation. For the right trade deal we will pay a reasonable amount. 50 or 100bn is insignificant in the scheme of things. It is no more than we would be paying to stay in for a few years. We would be no worse off than now. I think Davis and Barnier are very relaxed about the money and that will be agreed very quickly. But you won't see a number presented.

To turn up to a negotation without a position is incompetent at best on 11:10 - Jul 22 with 2852 views

No9

To turn up to a negotation without a position is incompetent at best on 06:02 - Jul 22 by xrayspecs

An interesting post which shows just how little you understand about the way in which these things work.

To turn up to a negotation without a position is incompetent at best on 11:12 - Jul 22 with 2849 views

xrayspecs

To turn up to a negotation without a position is incompetent at best on 11:10 - Jul 22 by No9
An interesting post which shows just how little you understand about the way in which these things work.

He he. If only you knew....

To turn up to a negotation without a position is incompetent at best on 11:14 - Jul 22 with 2849 views

No9

To turn up to a negotation without a position is incompetent at best on 11:12 - Jul 22 by xrayspecs
He he. If only you knew....

I'm only going by what you have posted.

To turn up to a negotation without a position is incompetent at best on 11:22 - Jul 22 with 2841 views

Freddies_Ears

To turn up to a negotation without a position is incompetent at best on 11:12 - Jul 22 by xrayspecs
He he. If only you knew....

There's only one party shooting itself in both feet, and it isn't the EU.
There's only one party in control of its own destiny, and it isn't the UK
There's only one party that knows that it's proposals have sufficient political support to be accepted - and that's the EU, who need and have the support of 27 sovereign nations, working together. UK doesn't even have the support of the government's own party for any deal they might go for.

The argument over timing of the talks was meant to be the row of the summer - we caved in within minutes. Then there was no way we'd respect our ongoing financial obligations - now that has been agreed in principle. Next will be free movement - we're already sliding from "no" to "well, for a few more years". Then ECJ, which is the only sensible way to settle international disputes within Europe.

Then? Who knows. DD doesn't.

To turn up to a negotation without a position is incompetent at best on 11:27 - Jul 22 with 2836 views

No9

To turn up to a negotation without a position is incompetent at best on 11:22 - Jul 22 by Freddies_Ears

M Barnier was authorised to go to the negotiations with 4 head to be agreed.

Despite Mr Davis boast that he has at least 500 personnel working on this he turns up (reputedly) with 90+ who were inadequately briefed.

That is costing us, the taxpayer a fortune.

Meanwhile the EU has a plan and a way forward.

As you say 27 - V - 1

& the 1 could not be more disorganised

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