| Rationally when should we worry? 20:38 - Aug 15 with 5450 views | Monkey_Blue |
I’ve been concerned about the recruitment policy all summer but having failed to beat two teams that were in league one last season and one who is currently in league two... and looked goal shy having lost pretty much all of last years goals via Waghorn, Garner, Celina and McGoldrick... I think we may as well face facts that unless the way they are being asked to play is so complicated they can’t get it quickly but when they do it’s genius... we are in for a very long hard season. I think it’s worth giving it a month but at the moment we’ve gone from a top half championship team to looking like a league one team out of its depth. I’m not suggesting a change of manager in a month btw but we need to face facts... lots of teams bring in a new manager and they say all the right things.... right up until a player says they are to blame for his sacking [Post edited 15 Aug 2018 20:43]
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| Rationally when should we worry? on 12:35 - Aug 16 with 1257 views | LeagueOne |
| Rationally when should we worry? on 09:52 - Aug 16 by LeagueOne |
I'd say if we're looking rough by November Evans may pull the plug on it as he did with Jewell. Jewell was here around a year wasn't he? |
What's the deal with the downvote and hide Herbivore?
What's wrong with thinking that Evans wont stick with Hurst past January if we're in the bottom three? What is your argument that he will?
No hiding please ;) |  |
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| Rationally when should we worry? on 12:43 - Aug 16 with 1249 views | itfcjoe |
| Rationally when should we worry? on 12:02 - Aug 16 by Kieran_Knows |
I still don't get this 'overhaul' comment. Webster, Waghorn and Garner aside, we had 4 loan players who were all played a fair chunk of games last season that needed replacing regardless (Iorfa, Celina, Connolly & CCV), plus we released (in my opinion, correctly), McGoldrick, Hyam, Gleeson, Bru and Carayol (plus Crowe if we're being pedantic).
So even if you take out the sales of Webster, Waghorn and Garner, we've still replaced 9 players who were going, with 9 players, which was needed.
Again, as I mentioned yesterday, whether we've replaced said players above correctly, with lower league players, remains to be seen. However I don't see it as an overhaul as others suggest. |
We've effectively signed 6 or 7 guys you'd expect to start whenever they are fit - Donacien, Nsiala, Chalobah, Edwards, Nolan and Harrison/Jackson
We haven't signed that many players you would expect to be nailed on starters since Mick's first summer- whichever way you put it that is an overhaul. We've had 9 debutants in 2 league games which is a club record.
Selling 3 'star' players that started every game when fit, on top of any other business is a big change - it's not something we've done since we had to after failing to beat WH in play offs and losing Miller, Bent, Kuqi and Davis. |  |
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| Rationally when should we worry? on 12:53 - Aug 16 with 1228 views | Kieran_Knows |
| Rationally when should we worry? on 12:43 - Aug 16 by itfcjoe |
We've effectively signed 6 or 7 guys you'd expect to start whenever they are fit - Donacien, Nsiala, Chalobah, Edwards, Nolan and Harrison/Jackson
We haven't signed that many players you would expect to be nailed on starters since Mick's first summer- whichever way you put it that is an overhaul. We've had 9 debutants in 2 league games which is a club record.
Selling 3 'star' players that started every game when fit, on top of any other business is a big change - it's not something we've done since we had to after failing to beat WH in play offs and losing Miller, Bent, Kuqi and Davis. |
Whilst I don't necessarily disagree with what you're saying, Joe, what else was Hurst meant to do given that 9 players were leaving the club (that is fact given the 5 released, plus 4 returning to parent clubs)? Pad the squad out with existing youngsters, and only bring in 3-4 players (plus trying to keep hold of Waghorn, Garner & Webster)? |  |
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| Rationally when should we worry? on 12:56 - Aug 16 with 1222 views | eireblue |
Earliest would possibly be around 5th May 2019 maybe starting sometime between 13:45 and 14:00. |  | | |
| Rationally when should we worry? on 12:57 - Aug 16 with 1218 views | itfcjoe |
| Rationally when should we worry? on 12:53 - Aug 16 by Kieran_Knows |
Whilst I don't necessarily disagree with what you're saying, Joe, what else was Hurst meant to do given that 9 players were leaving the club (that is fact given the 5 released, plus 4 returning to parent clubs)? Pad the squad out with existing youngsters, and only bring in 3-4 players (plus trying to keep hold of Waghorn, Garner & Webster)? |
Out of the 5 released none were really key by the end. But losing 3 more guaranteed starters on top of that is a big overhaul that wasn't required in my view.
I can understand why all the moves happened, and don't disagree individually with them but as a whole it contributes to a significant overhaul and it has to be looked as a whole.
I think it may be too much too quickly, we'll never know as it isn't being played out in an alternative reality, but we are where we are now and hopefully will click soon | |
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| Rationally when should we worry? on 13:22 - Aug 16 with 1189 views | longtimefan |
| Rationally when should we worry? on 12:33 - Aug 16 by Alabaster_Codify |
Palace lost their first 7 games without scoring a goal. They finished 11th.
Don't worry!! |
Hopefully that's not a good analogy as they changed Manager after those 7 games or so! |  | | |
| Rationally when should we worry? on 13:31 - Aug 16 with 1186 views | ElephantintheRoom |
It's not really the recruitment policy that is profoundly worrying, it is the confrontational attitude and moving on of key players without adequate replacements AND a seemingly reluctance to give youth a chance. Bringing in players from lower divisions is a welcome change and potentially a good recruitment policy. It's everything else that is beginning to seem wrong. Windass going to Wigan? Sell every goalscorer. Antagonise Knudsen. Criticise players who barely know each other... It just seems like management by sellotape. | |
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| Rationally when should we worry? on 10:16 - Aug 17 with 1137 views | SamWhiteUK |
| Rationally when should we worry? on 12:57 - Aug 16 by itfcjoe |
Out of the 5 released none were really key by the end. But losing 3 more guaranteed starters on top of that is a big overhaul that wasn't required in my view.
I can understand why all the moves happened, and don't disagree individually with them but as a whole it contributes to a significant overhaul and it has to be looked as a whole.
I think it may be too much too quickly, we'll never know as it isn't being played out in an alternative reality, but we are where we are now and hopefully will click soon |
Who are the three guaranteed starters? |  | | |
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| Rationally when should we worry? on 11:15 - Aug 17 with 1118 views | itfcjoe |
| Rationally when should we worry? on 10:16 - Aug 17 by SamWhiteUK |
Who are the three guaranteed starters? |
Webster, Waghorn and Garner - who all basically started every game when fit last year. | |
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| Rationally when should we worry? on 11:18 - Aug 17 with 1111 views | Hipsterectomy |
I'd say the moment ITFC twitter stop using #anewera
That is if they haven't already |  |
| Walter Smith's Barmy Army |
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| Rationally when should we worry? on 11:21 - Aug 17 with 1109 views | tractorshark |
| Rationally when should we worry? on 11:18 - Aug 17 by Hipsterectomy |
I'd say the moment ITFC twitter stop using #anewera
That is if they haven't already |
Maybe they’ll change it to #ANewError | | | |
| Rationally when should we worry? on 12:01 - Aug 17 with 1093 views | goat_man |
| Rationally when should we worry? on 20:48 - Aug 15 by Keaneish |
Why do we look like a league one team when we're playing better football than we have in years and years? If it weren't for a few stupid individual mistakes, we'd have three wins now. Fine lines so why the hysteria? |
I suppose the hysteria/concern comes from having 15 years worth of experience in the championship, where the individual mistakes/methods of loosing never seem to be addressed no matter who's playing or who's in charge? If we could but address these "fine lines" for once, we would probably win more than we lose. We shall see in time if PH can do it. |  | | |
| Rationally when should we worry? on 12:13 - Aug 17 with 1082 views | ITFCBlues |
| Rationally when should we worry? on 11:15 - Aug 17 by itfcjoe |
Webster, Waghorn and Garner - who all basically started every game when fit last year. |
So what you're syaing is, only Waghorn is missing who was a regular starter? Webster was always injured and Garner missed a fair few games as well.
I'm interested to know what YOU would of done this summer transfer wise considering the fact there was a lot of players out of contract & alot on short term deals? Would you have kept the likes of Gleeson & Carayol?
I just don't see that there was any alternative to the big upheaval we've had.... |  |
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| Rationally when should we worry? on 12:15 - Aug 17 with 1081 views | wkj |
Worry any time you like, just try and keep rational early on. Personally I think it is valid to be worried now about our performance in the final third, and it is valid to call into question some individual performances of a few players who should know better. |  |
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| Rationally when should we worry? on 12:25 - Aug 17 with 1072 views | itfcjoe |
| Rationally when should we worry? on 12:13 - Aug 17 by ITFCBlues |
So what you're syaing is, only Waghorn is missing who was a regular starter? Webster was always injured and Garner missed a fair few games as well.
I'm interested to know what YOU would of done this summer transfer wise considering the fact there was a lot of players out of contract & alot on short term deals? Would you have kept the likes of Gleeson & Carayol?
I just don't see that there was any alternative to the big upheaval we've had.... |
Well there was a clear alternative to not sell the 3 players.
I don't think any of the deals were wrong individually, but maybe as a whole the business may be a bit too drastic. | |
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| Rationally when should we worry? on 12:38 - Aug 17 with 1047 views | ITFCBlues |
| Rationally when should we worry? on 12:25 - Aug 17 by itfcjoe |
Well there was a clear alternative to not sell the 3 players.
I don't think any of the deals were wrong individually, but maybe as a whole the business may be a bit too drastic. |
So we don't sell any of the three - which leaves us fishing around for free transfers in the main probably in a similar ilk to Gleeson or Carayol. Would you be happy with that?
Of course, the likes of Webster, Waggy & Garner all wanted to move as well. So you'd risk keeping players here who are unhappy at not having the chance to move for personal / financial reasons as well - unless we break the salary cap to keep Waghorn/Webster.
The only other alternative was for ME to stump up a load of cash....which was never going to happen. | |
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| Rationally when should we worry? on 12:51 - Aug 17 with 1039 views | itfcjoe |
| Rationally when should we worry? on 12:38 - Aug 17 by ITFCBlues |
So we don't sell any of the three - which leaves us fishing around for free transfers in the main probably in a similar ilk to Gleeson or Carayol. Would you be happy with that?
Of course, the likes of Webster, Waggy & Garner all wanted to move as well. So you'd risk keeping players here who are unhappy at not having the chance to move for personal / financial reasons as well - unless we break the salary cap to keep Waghorn/Webster.
The only other alternative was for ME to stump up a load of cash....which was never going to happen. |
Hurst said he had been expecting to be utilising the loan market more than the permanent market - so keeping those was expected when he signed up.
I don't really see the big deal here, I think we have elected to change too much too quickly, you don't and think it had to happen but there are clear reasons why we could have stopped it. | |
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| Rationally when should we worry? on 13:04 - Aug 17 with 1013 views | Vic |
| Rationally when should we worry? on 12:51 - Aug 17 by itfcjoe |
Hurst said he had been expecting to be utilising the loan market more than the permanent market - so keeping those was expected when he signed up.
I don't really see the big deal here, I think we have elected to change too much too quickly, you don't and think it had to happen but there are clear reasons why we could have stopped it. |
The thing is that there are so many shades to all this aren't there.
Had we sold Webster and kept Waghorn and had no other signings what would our team have looked like? Given that most of the other players we lost were loans or not fit I don't think the the starting team would have been any better than now - with the exception of Waghorn up front.
The players we hoped would have filled the gaps are still with us, but still coming back to fitness so are not yet available. Currently the new players are keeping no one (Nydam excepted) out of the team.
Part of out current problem is that we don;t have any experience back up if we need to take these new, young, inexperienced players out of the firing line. That will change when Huws, Bish, Dozzell and Woolfie get fit. There will be real competition for places then.
All of which will leave the only big weakness, and big downgrade to last year, as the forwards. And hopefully that can be fixed with a loan. |  |
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| Rationally when should we worry? on 13:15 - Aug 17 with 997 views | ITFCBlues |
| Rationally when should we worry? on 12:51 - Aug 17 by itfcjoe |
Hurst said he had been expecting to be utilising the loan market more than the permanent market - so keeping those was expected when he signed up.
I don't really see the big deal here, I think we have elected to change too much too quickly, you don't and think it had to happen but there are clear reasons why we could have stopped it. |
Perhaps - but the selling of the three players you've mentioned was fairly unavoidable given the circumstances around each sale. I think it's also a stretch to say Webster was "key" seeming as he was injured a hell of a lot the last couple of seasons.
In an ideal world, i'd agree that you don't sell Garner & Waggy - but would they both be happy here earning less money & in Garners case living away from his family?
The only other solution would've been for Nydam, Downes & Dozzell to be more involved than they currently are. Either way you look at it, we'd still be needing 6 or 7 new signings - which is fairly significant | |
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