| Bart needs to be back in goal tonight 08:39 - Sep 18 with 3602 views | COYBitfc |
While I know he hasn't had the best start to the season he shouldn't have been dropped in my view. |  |
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| Bart needs to be back in goal tonight on 08:42 - Sep 18 with 3112 views | CurlyPete |
You're a fan of picking under performing players ? |  | | |
| Bart needs to be back in goal tonight on 08:43 - Sep 18 with 3111 views | Herbivore |
Bringing him back now when Gerken has done nothing wrong would be a mistake. What kind of message does that send out? It would smack of chaos and confusion. Whether it was right to drop him or not is another matter, however now he's been dropped he needs to win his place back or Gerken needs to lose his. |  |
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| Bart needs to be back in goal tonight on 08:47 - Sep 18 with 3084 views | RobTheMonk |
I can see why Bart was dropped to be fair. He's arguably made a mistake in every game this season (costing goals) and his kicking has been a bit rubbish. Gerken's kicking has been marginally better and he's not really done much to warrant being immidiately dropped.
I along with the majority of our fans see Bart as a quality keeper but that's because we've had seasons of him performing heroics. If I'm a new manager and my first choice goalkeeper has been having a bit of a mare, I'm taking him out of the firing line.
Bart still has loads of bonus points gained from seasons gone but I personally think he was right to be dropped for Gerken. The way in which I've heard he was dropped - not so sure that was right. |  | | |
| Bart needs to be back in goal tonight on 08:48 - Sep 18 with 3081 views | FifeITFC |
Why? Has Gerken been playing poorly? |  |
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| Bart needs to be back in goal tonight on 08:49 - Sep 18 with 3074 views | COYBitfc |
| Bart needs to be back in goal tonight on 08:42 - Sep 18 by CurlyPete |
You're a fan of picking under performing players ? |
Well what logic for the majority of the rest of the team then? | |
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| Bart needs to be back in goal tonight on 09:17 - Sep 18 with 2989 views | WarkTheWarkITFC |
You are suggesting that we drop our best player from Saturday. Gerken made three good stops in the second half to prevent us getting a hiding.
You want to send the message that players who have done nothing wrong can be dropped to allow players who have done wrong and therefore been dropped back in. Not sure you've thought this through. |  |
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| Bart needs to be back in goal tonight on 10:27 - Sep 18 with 2905 views | BrianTablet |
He could do a better job of the right back position than Jordan Spence*.
*Other error-prone defenders are available. |  |
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| Bart needs to be back in goal tonight on 10:38 - Sep 18 with 2882 views | BerlinBlue |
| Bart needs to be back in goal tonight on 08:43 - Sep 18 by Herbivore |
Bringing him back now when Gerken has done nothing wrong would be a mistake. What kind of message does that send out? It would smack of chaos and confusion. Whether it was right to drop him or not is another matter, however now he's been dropped he needs to win his place back or Gerken needs to lose his. |
While I think Bart is the better keeper and I would like to see him in the team playing well, I think you're right. When he was dropped I was a bit disappointed, but having thought about it, it's clear PH made the call because he believed a change was necessary to help give the team the best chance of winning. He has to have the courage of his convictions until performances dictate otherwise. It's good to see the manager not scared of making decisions like that. |  | | |
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| Bart needs to be back in goal tonight on 10:41 - Sep 18 with 2877 views | itfcjoe |
I agree - you play your best players |  |
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| Bart needs to be back in goal tonight on 10:47 - Sep 18 with 2852 views | WarkTheWarkITFC |
| Bart needs to be back in goal tonight on 10:41 - Sep 18 by itfcjoe |
I agree - you play your best players |
So you play your best players regardless of them costing us 5 of the 9 goals that we had conceded at the time he was dropped?
You just persevere with players playing badly? How on earth is that helpful. He didn't play himself back into form after 3 or 4 or 5 games. So do you just keep playing him and letting him cost us points?
Instead he brings in another player who has done nothing wrong, performed better and not made a single mistake. But you would have him out of the side for the player who has been playing well below his standard?
Very strange, simplistic view. | |
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| Bart needs to be back in goal tonight on 10:53 - Sep 18 with 2835 views | itfcjoe |
| Bart needs to be back in goal tonight on 10:47 - Sep 18 by WarkTheWarkITFC |
So you play your best players regardless of them costing us 5 of the 9 goals that we had conceded at the time he was dropped?
You just persevere with players playing badly? How on earth is that helpful. He didn't play himself back into form after 3 or 4 or 5 games. So do you just keep playing him and letting him cost us points?
Instead he brings in another player who has done nothing wrong, performed better and not made a single mistake. But you would have him out of the side for the player who has been playing well below his standard?
Very strange, simplistic view. |
I think it is a very strange simplistic view that you drop your best player after a couple of bad games.
To say he cost us 5 goals in games is a gross simplification and exaggeration - do the defenders totally losing their markers or failing to clear the ball not make a big difference then?
It would be harsh on Gerken, who has done nothing wrong - but Bart is a better goalkeeper than him, and better than most in the division so why not get him back in? | |
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| Bart needs to be back in goal tonight on 11:01 - Sep 18 with 2801 views | WarkTheWarkITFC |
| Bart needs to be back in goal tonight on 10:53 - Sep 18 by itfcjoe |
I think it is a very strange simplistic view that you drop your best player after a couple of bad games.
To say he cost us 5 goals in games is a gross simplification and exaggeration - do the defenders totally losing their markers or failing to clear the ball not make a big difference then?
It would be harsh on Gerken, who has done nothing wrong - but Bart is a better goalkeeper than him, and better than most in the division so why not get him back in? |
I must say that you've gone from someone that talked a lot of sense to making some really ill-thought out, rash comments on ITFC lately, which is disappointing to see especially as you're not involved in the podcast and will play a small part in shaping the views of others.
You've stated it would be harsh on Gerken. It would be management of the highest incompetence. What kind of message does that send to the squad? That players can get into the side, do their best, not let anyone down and then just be replaced anyway by the person they replaced in the first place. That is a quite bizarre suggestion.
Would Bart have saved either goal on Saturday? No chance. Gerken has done nothing wrong and was our best player Saturday. If you start dropping players who have played well then you are going to lose the dressing room. Dropping Donacien was bad enough but there was a reason with the loan situation.
You seem to have completely panicked of late. I've seen one post from you positive of Hurst and the rest have been negative, bordering on fear mongering.
Bart should have done better against Blackburn. He was unlucky that it fell to Graham but he should have caught it. He was flapping at Hillsborough for both goals, wasn't good enough for Exeter's goal. Everybody agreed he was completely woeful in the lead up to Norwich. | |
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| Bart needs to be back in goal tonight on 11:08 - Sep 18 with 2776 views | itfcjoe |
| Bart needs to be back in goal tonight on 11:01 - Sep 18 by WarkTheWarkITFC |
I must say that you've gone from someone that talked a lot of sense to making some really ill-thought out, rash comments on ITFC lately, which is disappointing to see especially as you're not involved in the podcast and will play a small part in shaping the views of others.
You've stated it would be harsh on Gerken. It would be management of the highest incompetence. What kind of message does that send to the squad? That players can get into the side, do their best, not let anyone down and then just be replaced anyway by the person they replaced in the first place. That is a quite bizarre suggestion.
Would Bart have saved either goal on Saturday? No chance. Gerken has done nothing wrong and was our best player Saturday. If you start dropping players who have played well then you are going to lose the dressing room. Dropping Donacien was bad enough but there was a reason with the loan situation.
You seem to have completely panicked of late. I've seen one post from you positive of Hurst and the rest have been negative, bordering on fear mongering.
Bart should have done better against Blackburn. He was unlucky that it fell to Graham but he should have caught it. He was flapping at Hillsborough for both goals, wasn't good enough for Exeter's goal. Everybody agreed he was completely woeful in the lead up to Norwich. |
This post is way OTT with regards to my apparent negativity and fear mongering.
One of the goals at Hillsborough was a totally free header after Chalobah switched off.
Bart hasn't been great, but there is a chasm in quality between him and Gerken which has been proven time and time again. Gerken had a bit of fortune with one save v Norwich on a shot that didn't deflect or move and he reacted late, and was lucky that a palm out into middle of goal Saturday fell to Knudsen.
I can't fault Gerken, but Bart is much better than him. Gerken has done what has been expected but I personally don't see the logic in needing to wait for him to make a mistake to allow a superior goalkeeper to get back in the team. | |
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| Bart needs to be back in goal tonight on 11:08 - Sep 18 with 2768 views | Swailsey |
| Bart needs to be back in goal tonight on 08:47 - Sep 18 by RobTheMonk |
I can see why Bart was dropped to be fair. He's arguably made a mistake in every game this season (costing goals) and his kicking has been a bit rubbish. Gerken's kicking has been marginally better and he's not really done much to warrant being immidiately dropped.
I along with the majority of our fans see Bart as a quality keeper but that's because we've had seasons of him performing heroics. If I'm a new manager and my first choice goalkeeper has been having a bit of a mare, I'm taking him out of the firing line.
Bart still has loads of bonus points gained from seasons gone but I personally think he was right to be dropped for Gerken. The way in which I've heard he was dropped - not so sure that was right. |
Go on... |  |
| Who said: "Colin Healy made Cesc Fabregas look like Colin Healy"? | We miss you TLA |
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| Bart needs to be back in goal tonight on 11:23 - Sep 18 with 2742 views | WarkTheWarkITFC |
| Bart needs to be back in goal tonight on 11:08 - Sep 18 by itfcjoe |
This post is way OTT with regards to my apparent negativity and fear mongering.
One of the goals at Hillsborough was a totally free header after Chalobah switched off.
Bart hasn't been great, but there is a chasm in quality between him and Gerken which has been proven time and time again. Gerken had a bit of fortune with one save v Norwich on a shot that didn't deflect or move and he reacted late, and was lucky that a palm out into middle of goal Saturday fell to Knudsen.
I can't fault Gerken, but Bart is much better than him. Gerken has done what has been expected but I personally don't see the logic in needing to wait for him to make a mistake to allow a superior goalkeeper to get back in the team. |
When Bart first joined there wasn't a chasm at all. Bart got better and better to the point he was head and shoulders above Gerken.
By the exact same token Gerken can improve too. Bart has not been playing at the level he was, which was head and shoulders above, to the point where Gerken has looked better than Bart this season which is what matters.
Hurst doesn't give a damn about what the gap was last year or the year before, rightly so. You are surely not advocating just playing the eleven most talented players regardless of form, morale, condition?
The Gerken save against Norwich, as I said at the time, I had a perfect view of and it was a tremendous reaction save seeing it so late. I posted at the time I hoped the idiots who liked to get on his back wouldn't assume that was a clanger from the other end of the ground.
I have never rated Gerken and am a big fan of Bart. So the fact I am saying Gerken should stay in the team is recognising that he's much weaker than Bart historically and probably still is. WHEN Gerken makes a mistake or plays poorly there can be a debate over Bart coming back in. Until then there is no reason at all to drop him for Bart, who will then have reinforced the message that he will get back into the team regardless.
Where is the motivation for Bart to perform his best then when he'll just be thrown back in anyway? | |
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| Bart needs to be back in goal tonight on 12:04 - Sep 18 with 2666 views | ArnieM |
Bart does not need to come back in tonight. Gerkin has been playing well .
Oh no, Mr Bart had to now wait HIS chance . He’s not an automatic. His form this season had been pants. |  |
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| Bart needs to be back in goal tonight on 12:15 - Sep 18 with 2651 views | COYBitfc |
That's that then... We all agree Bart back in goal tonight... COYB | |
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| Bart needs to be back in goal tonight on 12:15 - Sep 18 with 2651 views | itfcjoe |
| Bart needs to be back in goal tonight on 11:23 - Sep 18 by WarkTheWarkITFC |
When Bart first joined there wasn't a chasm at all. Bart got better and better to the point he was head and shoulders above Gerken.
By the exact same token Gerken can improve too. Bart has not been playing at the level he was, which was head and shoulders above, to the point where Gerken has looked better than Bart this season which is what matters.
Hurst doesn't give a damn about what the gap was last year or the year before, rightly so. You are surely not advocating just playing the eleven most talented players regardless of form, morale, condition?
The Gerken save against Norwich, as I said at the time, I had a perfect view of and it was a tremendous reaction save seeing it so late. I posted at the time I hoped the idiots who liked to get on his back wouldn't assume that was a clanger from the other end of the ground.
I have never rated Gerken and am a big fan of Bart. So the fact I am saying Gerken should stay in the team is recognising that he's much weaker than Bart historically and probably still is. WHEN Gerken makes a mistake or plays poorly there can be a debate over Bart coming back in. Until then there is no reason at all to drop him for Bart, who will then have reinforced the message that he will get back into the team regardless.
Where is the motivation for Bart to perform his best then when he'll just be thrown back in anyway? |
Put it this way, if I turned up tonight and see Bart in the team would you be disappointed with the decision? Personally I’d feel bad for Gerken but wouldn’t be too bothered.
At the time I thought she v Norwich was good as assumed it had deflected, but it hadn’t | |
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| Bart needs to be back in goal tonight on 12:24 - Sep 18 with 2626 views | Devereuxxx |
Nonsense. Bart's been absolute pony first few games, with mistakes costing us games. Gerken has been better and therefore should start.
Putting Bart back in goal shows a player can get back into the team through past form alone. And I strongly suspect Hurst isn't going to do that. |  | | |
| Bart needs to be back in goal tonight on 12:26 - Sep 18 with 2618 views | pointofblue |
| Bart needs to be back in goal tonight on 12:15 - Sep 18 by itfcjoe |
Put it this way, if I turned up tonight and see Bart in the team would you be disappointed with the decision? Personally I’d feel bad for Gerken but wouldn’t be too bothered.
At the time I thought she v Norwich was good as assumed it had deflected, but it hadn’t |
Yes, I'd be very disappointed if the line up appeared at 7pm and Bart replaced Gerken - unless Gerken is injured of course. There was one moment in the Norwich game when Gerken came and confidentially punched a ball clear from a set piece; all I could think of at the time is Bart would have either flapped at it or stayed on his line going by his form this season.
Players can't keep clinging on to past glories - one issue with Mick was players were woefully out of form but continued to play. Bart is an excellent keeper but due to error after error he has been dropped. Gerken has done nothing to warrant dropping.
Interestingly, if Gerken makes an error tonight I bet people will be crying out for Bart to return, even though he made blunder after blunder without any call for a switch to take place. | |
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| Bart needs to be back in goal tonight on 12:49 - Sep 18 with 2577 views | BiGDonnie |
| Bart needs to be back in goal tonight on 11:08 - Sep 18 by Swailsey |
Go on... |
ME sent him a text whilst at his grandmothers funeral. |  |
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| Bart needs to be back in goal tonight on 13:06 - Sep 18 with 2547 views | WarkTheWarkITFC |
| Bart needs to be back in goal tonight on 12:15 - Sep 18 by itfcjoe |
Put it this way, if I turned up tonight and see Bart in the team would you be disappointed with the decision? Personally I’d feel bad for Gerken but wouldn’t be too bothered.
At the time I thought she v Norwich was good as assumed it had deflected, but it hadn’t |
It didn't deflect but it was a hell of a stop. It came through about 5 bodies and I was sat behind that goal. Nobody around me saw it until the last second. Was a brilliant stop, slightly lucky he near enough to get it seeing it late.
I understand you are in the Co-operative Stand so it's unfortunate you feel you had a better view than plenty of people sat in a much better position all of whom commented on how good that save was seeing it late, some of which were furious pre-match Gerken was starting.
It was a terrific save. It didn't need to be deflected or anything else. Watch the replay, look at Gerken, imagine his line of sight and watch the 5 or 5 players it flashed past before Gerken could see it. It is obvious by the point he reacts, when it is almost past him. He didn't see the shot coming and make a mistake. He reacted brilliantly at the last second. | |
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| Bart needs to be back in goal tonight on 13:11 - Sep 18 with 2537 views | Vaughan8 |
| Bart needs to be back in goal tonight on 10:53 - Sep 18 by itfcjoe |
I think it is a very strange simplistic view that you drop your best player after a couple of bad games.
To say he cost us 5 goals in games is a gross simplification and exaggeration - do the defenders totally losing their markers or failing to clear the ball not make a big difference then?
It would be harsh on Gerken, who has done nothing wrong - but Bart is a better goalkeeper than him, and better than most in the division so why not get him back in? |
I think the problem here is, that you personally wouldn't have dropped him so you would have just let him have a few games.
However, now that PH has dropped him, what do you say to Gerken when he asks why he has been dropped? I think now Gerken is in, you can't really drop him until he does some things wrong, so ultimately I am going to disagree with you, Gerken should be in goal tonight.
Also, we don't know what goes on behind the scenes in training etc. | | | |
| Bart needs to be back in goal tonight on 14:14 - Sep 18 with 2463 views | itfcjoe |
| Bart needs to be back in goal tonight on 13:06 - Sep 18 by WarkTheWarkITFC |
It didn't deflect but it was a hell of a stop. It came through about 5 bodies and I was sat behind that goal. Nobody around me saw it until the last second. Was a brilliant stop, slightly lucky he near enough to get it seeing it late.
I understand you are in the Co-operative Stand so it's unfortunate you feel you had a better view than plenty of people sat in a much better position all of whom commented on how good that save was seeing it late, some of which were furious pre-match Gerken was starting.
It was a terrific save. It didn't need to be deflected or anything else. Watch the replay, look at Gerken, imagine his line of sight and watch the 5 or 5 players it flashed past before Gerken could see it. It is obvious by the point he reacts, when it is almost past him. He didn't see the shot coming and make a mistake. He reacted brilliantly at the last second. |
I sit in the South Stand so had a similar view as you - was actually basically in line as sit on effectively the left hand post.
I don't want to go too far into the save - I thought it was good at time, but assumed picked up a slight deflection as slow to react. Had that gone in it would have been a howler though as effectively straight at him.
But.....you haven't responded to point about what you would think if you get to ground later and Bart recalled? | |
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| Bart needs to be back in goal tonight on 14:16 - Sep 18 with 2459 views | itfcjoe |
| Bart needs to be back in goal tonight on 12:26 - Sep 18 by pointofblue |
Yes, I'd be very disappointed if the line up appeared at 7pm and Bart replaced Gerken - unless Gerken is injured of course. There was one moment in the Norwich game when Gerken came and confidentially punched a ball clear from a set piece; all I could think of at the time is Bart would have either flapped at it or stayed on his line going by his form this season.
Players can't keep clinging on to past glories - one issue with Mick was players were woefully out of form but continued to play. Bart is an excellent keeper but due to error after error he has been dropped. Gerken has done nothing to warrant dropping.
Interestingly, if Gerken makes an error tonight I bet people will be crying out for Bart to return, even though he made blunder after blunder without any call for a switch to take place. |
I think 'clinging on to past glories' is a bit OTT, he has been player of the season for the last 3 seasons - it's not like he was good 5 years ago. He just had a rough patch for a few games. | |
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