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I wonder if some of the parents regret not vaccinating their child. on 17:02 - Nov 20 by StokieBlue
"It would have been helpful if the BBC article had confirmed that those that were unvaccinated were the ones that had chickenpox rather than just plant the suggestion."
It would have been nice but I doubt they have cross-referenced figures like that. We can do some deductions of our own though.
The vaccine is 95% efficient against severe chicken pox and 10-30% efficient against very mild chicken pox. You can work out reasonable numbers from those ratios and all cases except ridiculous tail events lead to a majority of the cases being unvaccinated children.
Here's some good unsensational information from the NHS on chickenpox. Based on the information here, I am glad that my daughter had chickenpox when she was a toddler and will not be at great risk if she gets chickenpox when pregnant in the future. I hope those parents of infected children at the school in North Carolina will be equally happy.
I wonder if some of the parents regret not vaccinating their child. on 16:48 - Nov 20 by caught-in-limbo
It would have been helpful if the BBC article had confirmed that those that were unvaccinated were the ones that had chickenpox rather than just plant the suggestion.
Here in Spain it's a bit like 1980's Britain - there is no chickenpox vaccine, or if there is, it's optional. Doctors here rightly point out that the dangers of chickenpox are far greater for adults and while I've not heard of "chickenpox parties" here, parents will often swap their children's toothbrushes if one of their kids has got chickenpox. I understand that it's exceptionally rare to get chickenpox as an adult if you've had it as a child.
In the same vein of giving statistics that are not necessarily congruent with other information (like with the BBC above), I will point out that the Basque Country has Europe's highest life expectancy (for women).
As a general rule, if you're vaccinated against something, you don't get it.*
*subject to general levels of effectiveness and the nature of the vaccine itself. 'Live' vaccines will give you a very light dose of the disease in question, for example.
[Post edited 20 Nov 2018 18:23]
I'm one of the people who was blamed for getting Paul Cook sacked. PM for the full post.
I wonder if some of the parents regret not vaccinating their child. on 16:20 - Nov 20 by StokieBlue
There is in the US.
It's part of a wider thing though - it could easily be measles next time.
SB
[Post edited 20 Nov 2018 16:21]
It's notable that the anti-vaxx thing is REALLY big in the US, where you have to pay for all your medical. Poor people unable to afford proper medical care are low-hanging fruit for cynical charlatans who will tell them 'big pharma are just after your money', whilst charging them large sums for snake oil. Add in middle-class(and wealthier idiots like Gyneth Paltrow) preaching 'natural medicine' and you have a recipe for wholly avoidable epidemics. It's not as bad over here, but it's worth noting that measles outbreaks have been generally larger since Wakefield. his 'children' are now refusing to get their children vaccinated as 'it never did me any harm'. A literal plague upon their houses.
[Post edited 20 Nov 2018 21:50]
I'm one of the people who was blamed for getting Paul Cook sacked. PM for the full post.
I wonder if some of the parents regret not vaccinating their child. on 18:19 - Nov 20 by BlueBadger
It's notable that the anti-vaxx thing is REALLY big in the US, where you have to pay for all your medical. Poor people unable to afford proper medical care are low-hanging fruit for cynical charlatans who will tell them 'big pharma are just after your money', whilst charging them large sums for snake oil. Add in middle-class(and wealthier idiots like Gyneth Paltrow) preaching 'natural medicine' and you have a recipe for wholly avoidable epidemics. It's not as bad over here, but it's worth noting that measles outbreaks have been generally larger since Wakefield. his 'children' are now refusing to get their children vaccinated as 'it never did me any harm'. A literal plague upon their houses.
[Post edited 20 Nov 2018 21:50]
Big pharma practice in the states does make their position understandable. They'll medicate you, your kids and your pets if you'll let them. Vaccinations of course are a different matter really.
That's what I like about their whole 'British teeth' angle. No, ours aren't worse, they're perfectly healthy; you've just got an insurance mafia running your healthcare system.
footers KC - Private Counsel to Big Farmer - Friend to all
I wonder if some of the parents regret not vaccinating their child. on 16:17 - Nov 20 by SpruceMoose
I'm sick of being told we need to respect the views on lunatics and morons by right wing chin strokers and 'right on' libertarian nitwits. These goons are going to goon whether we listen to them or not.
That's why we need to legislate their ignorance out of the equation. Let them whinge about it on Mumsnet. In the meantime, in the real world, Polio won't be making a resurgence.
[Post edited 20 Nov 2018 16:20]
'You haven't listened to my Legistimate Concerns' 'Actually, yes I have, I've repeatedly and patiently explained to you WHY they're b0llocks and you've ignored that in favour of some pillock on Facebook who's earned his 'doctorate' from a cornflake packet'.
I'm one of the people who was blamed for getting Paul Cook sacked. PM for the full post.
Here's some good unsensational information from the NHS on chickenpox. Based on the information here, I am glad that my daughter had chickenpox when she was a toddler and will not be at great risk if she gets chickenpox when pregnant in the future. I hope those parents of infected children at the school in North Carolina will be equally happy.
A totally different debate as you well know.
The point is about vaccinations in general yet you focus on chicken pox because you know it's the least bad thing vaccinations are available for. Vaccinations are better both for the individual and the group.
Correct me if I'm wrong but you were advocating the anti-vax position on MMR on these forums weren't you?
SB
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I wonder if some of the parents regret not vaccinating their child. on 18:47 - Nov 20 with 1705 views
I wonder if some of the parents regret not vaccinating their child. on 18:39 - Nov 20 by StokieBlue
A totally different debate as you well know.
The point is about vaccinations in general yet you focus on chicken pox because you know it's the least bad thing vaccinations are available for. Vaccinations are better both for the individual and the group.
Correct me if I'm wrong but you were advocating the anti-vax position on MMR on these forums weren't you?
SB
I have seen SOMEONE on here advocating the anti-vax position but I honestly don't think it was CiL, to be honest. I seem to remember thinking 'well THIS is a surprise', so I genuinely think it wasn't CiL.
I can't find the thread in question, it was a while ago and searching that long back on TWTD lies the road to madness.
[Post edited 20 Nov 2018 18:50]
I'm one of the people who was blamed for getting Paul Cook sacked. PM for the full post.
I wonder if some of the parents regret not vaccinating their child. on 18:47 - Nov 20 by BlueBadger
I have seen SOMEONE on here advocating the anti-vax position but I honestly don't think it was CiL, to be honest. I seem to remember thinking 'well THIS is a surprise', so I genuinely think it wasn't CiL.
I can't find the thread in question, it was a while ago and searching that long back on TWTD lies the road to madness.
[Post edited 20 Nov 2018 18:50]
I honestly thought it was but if not then I sincerely apologise.
SB
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I wonder if some of the parents regret not vaccinating their child. on 18:53 - Nov 20 with 1693 views
I wonder if some of the parents regret not vaccinating their child. on 18:52 - Nov 20 by StokieBlue
I honestly thought it was but if not then I sincerely apologise.
SB
CiL has linked to the website of an anti-vax 'doctor' in the past. Maybe that's what you're thinking of?
Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country."
I wonder if some of the parents regret not vaccinating their child. on 18:39 - Nov 20 by StokieBlue
A totally different debate as you well know.
The point is about vaccinations in general yet you focus on chicken pox because you know it's the least bad thing vaccinations are available for. Vaccinations are better both for the individual and the group.
Correct me if I'm wrong but you were advocating the anti-vax position on MMR on these forums weren't you?
SB
"As you well know" is one of those condescending things you're prone to saying.
The article linked was one about chickenpox vaccination and an outbreak of non-threatening chickenpox.
I linked information about chickenpox from the NHS. I wasn't aware we were talking about vaccinations in general.
I'm not anti-vaxx, but I am anti-vaxx when it's not necessary. I don't think vaccination against chickenpox is necessary.
I wonder if some of the parents regret not vaccinating their child. on 20:02 - Nov 20 by caught-in-limbo
I linked to a topic which was not connected to vaccination in any way. The doctor happened to support non-vaccination.
Shock horror!
That's what I said!
Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country."
I wonder if some of the parents regret not vaccinating their child. on 20:10 - Nov 20 by caught-in-limbo
Apologies accepted.
[Post edited 20 Nov 2018 20:13]
Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country."
I wonder if some of the parents regret not vaccinating their child. on 20:10 - Nov 20 by SpruceMoose
That's what I said!
I know. The point I'm making is that it is completely irrelevant and inconsequential. The fact that you remember it, suggests you don't. Do you think an anti-vaxx doctor lacks credibility for all non-vaxx issues?
I wonder if some of the parents regret not vaccinating their child. on 20:14 - Nov 20 by caught-in-limbo
I know. The point I'm making is that it is completely irrelevant and inconsequential. The fact that you remember it, suggests you don't. Do you think an anti-vaxx doctor lacks credibility for all non-vaxx issues?
I was just helping out as to why people may have made this link between you and anti-vaxx in their mind.
To answer your question, I'm afraid for me, yes, a doctor pushing anti-vaxx theories without a shred of evidence would give me pause as to whether I would find them credible in other areas.
It would be the same with any other contributor, in any field, if they pushed their own theories going against the grain of accepted peer reviewed knowledge without presenting any evidence of their own.
[Post edited 20 Nov 2018 20:25]
Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country."
I wonder if some of the parents regret not vaccinating their child. on 16:11 - Nov 20 by SpruceMoose
I wouldn't be against it being made a criminal offence...
Keep your kid out of school, offence. Deliberately risk the health of your child? Offence.
I'm sorry but that is utter rubbish.
Have you not heard of vaccine injuries? Children suffer injuries and even death as a result of vaccine reactions. If you don't believe me I suggest you check out the CDC vaccine injury compensation payouts which have been not insignificant. Also the UK Government have a similar scheme ( see link ). https://www.gov.uk/vaccine-damage-payment
You could just as easily say that a child's health is being risked by giving them a vaccine, we are all different and in rare cases some people react adversely to them.
Where there is a risk, however small, there has to be informed consent. The day we have the authorities dictating what we must inject into our bodies and those of our Children is going to be a very dark day indeed.
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I wonder if some of the parents regret not vaccinating their child. on 20:30 - Nov 20 with 1630 views
I wonder if some of the parents regret not vaccinating their child. on 20:21 - Nov 20 by SpruceMoose
I was just helping out as to why people may have made this link between you and anti-vaxx in their mind.
To answer your question, I'm afraid for me, yes, a doctor pushing anti-vaxx theories without a shred of evidence would give me pause as to whether I would find them credible in other areas.
It would be the same with any other contributor, in any field, if they pushed their own theories going against the grain of accepted peer reviewed knowledge without presenting any evidence of their own.
[Post edited 20 Nov 2018 20:25]
I don't respect or trust the pharmaceutical industry as much as you, and I don't underestimate its influence on other aspects of the medical profession, like peer review.
I wonder if some of the parents regret not vaccinating their child. on 18:39 - Nov 20 by StokieBlue
A totally different debate as you well know.
The point is about vaccinations in general yet you focus on chicken pox because you know it's the least bad thing vaccinations are available for. Vaccinations are better both for the individual and the group.
Correct me if I'm wrong but you were advocating the anti-vax position on MMR on these forums weren't you?
SB
And what do you say to the parent of the vaccine injured child? 'Oh well never mind, your child took one for the team'.
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I wonder if some of the parents regret not vaccinating their child. on 20:41 - Nov 20 with 1627 views
I wonder if some of the parents regret not vaccinating their child. on 18:47 - Nov 20 by BlueBadger
I have seen SOMEONE on here advocating the anti-vax position but I honestly don't think it was CiL, to be honest. I seem to remember thinking 'well THIS is a surprise', so I genuinely think it wasn't CiL.
I can't find the thread in question, it was a while ago and searching that long back on TWTD lies the road to madness.
[Post edited 20 Nov 2018 18:50]
This is the problem with the vaccine discussions, people such as yourself who lump everybody into either a 'pro' or 'anti' group and don't allow for any in between.
It really is not that simple and there are many layers to this debate. Some Medical doctors and nurses are now warning that the schedule is getting too much too soon for a young developing immune system to cope with ( 56 shots before age 2 in the States ), as just one example.
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I wonder if some of the parents regret not vaccinating their child. on 20:43 - Nov 20 with 1623 views
I wonder if some of the parents regret not vaccinating their child. on 20:30 - Nov 20 by Harry_Palmer
I'm sorry but that is utter rubbish.
Have you not heard of vaccine injuries? Children suffer injuries and even death as a result of vaccine reactions. If you don't believe me I suggest you check out the CDC vaccine injury compensation payouts which have been not insignificant. Also the UK Government have a similar scheme ( see link ). https://www.gov.uk/vaccine-damage-payment
You could just as easily say that a child's health is being risked by giving them a vaccine, we are all different and in rare cases some people react adversely to them.
Where there is a risk, however small, there has to be informed consent. The day we have the authorities dictating what we must inject into our bodies and those of our Children is going to be a very dark day indeed.
"You could just as easily say that a child's health is being risked by giving them a vaccine, we are all different and in rare cases some people react adversely to them."
You could say that. But you'd be being daft taking that approach. I looked up the Vaccine Damage Payment stats. From 2007 to 2017 there were 11 awards made. So, 1.1 cases per year. Contrast this with measles infections rates.
In 2016 alone there were 500 cases of measles in England. Additionally, during the first six months of 2018 there were 41,000 measles cases in Europe, killing 37 people.
I think they're safer with the vaccine.
Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country."
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