| I wonder if some of the parents regret not vaccinating their child. on 22:44 - Nov 20 with 3276 views | StokieBlue |
| I wonder if some of the parents regret not vaccinating their child. on 22:28 - Nov 20 by caught-in-limbo |
Yes, it is about money.
Breakthrough discoveries that upset the earning potential of products supplied by pharmaceutical giants for example may never get to see the light of day. |
Can you give us an example of a breakthrough discovery which hasn't seen the light of day?
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| I wonder if some of the parents regret not vaccinating their child. on 22:46 - Nov 20 with 3272 views | StokieBlue |
| I wonder if some of the parents regret not vaccinating their child. on 20:33 - Nov 20 by Harry_Palmer |
And what do you say to the parent of the vaccine injured child? 'Oh well never mind, your child took one for the team'. |
Unfortunately that's pretty much what you have to say.
It's demonstrably provable that the child is less likely to contract a disease which can be vaccinated against if they have the vaccination. The chances of side-effects that can be proven to be from the vaccine are usually far less than the chances of contracting the said disease.
You are also reducing herd immunity by not given the vaccine so you are putting both your child and others at risk.
It's horrible if something happens but it's the best way forward for the child and it's peers.
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| I wonder if some of the parents regret not vaccinating their child. on 22:57 - Nov 20 with 3232 views | caught-in-limbo |
| I wonder if some of the parents regret not vaccinating their child. on 22:44 - Nov 20 by StokieBlue |
Can you give us an example of a breakthrough discovery which hasn't seen the light of day?
SB |
There is no real interest shown by the pharmaceutical industry in the placebo for obvious reasons. No pharmaceutical treatment is responsible for more successful medical interventions than the placebo. Its versatility and potential remains relatively understudied because it's essentially free and therefore a very dangerous competitor to the pharmaceutical industry. To date, no anti-depressant has been proven to be more successful than the placebo in all but the most severe cases of depression. |  |
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| I wonder if some of the parents regret not vaccinating their child. on 23:00 - Nov 20 with 3245 views | StokieBlue |
| I wonder if some of the parents regret not vaccinating their child. on 22:57 - Nov 20 by caught-in-limbo |
There is no real interest shown by the pharmaceutical industry in the placebo for obvious reasons. No pharmaceutical treatment is responsible for more successful medical interventions than the placebo. Its versatility and potential remains relatively understudied because it's essentially free and therefore a very dangerous competitor to the pharmaceutical industry. To date, no anti-depressant has been proven to be more successful than the placebo in all but the most severe cases of depression. |
"No pharmaceutical treatment is responsible for more successful medical interventions than the placebo."
I dispute this.
For instance, do you have evidence that the placebo works better than HIV drugs when combating infection? What about when fighting cancer?
Trials are done double blind with a placebo for a reason, unless the placebo is outperformed by a statistically important amount then the trial isn't passed.
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| I wonder if some of the parents regret not vaccinating their child. on 23:13 - Nov 20 with 3232 views | sparks |
| I wonder if some of the parents regret not vaccinating their child. on 16:29 - Nov 20 by MattinLondon |
If I remember correctly Peter Hutchins was quite vocal against the MMR vaccine linking it with autism. Not sure if he still believes this - as that doctor has since been discredited- or if he has rethought his position. |
Never has there been a better example of one sibling getting all the intelligence and insight.... |  |
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(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| I wonder if some of the parents regret not vaccinating their child. on 00:12 - Nov 21 with 3208 views | BlueBadger |
| I wonder if some of the parents regret not vaccinating their child. on 22:57 - Nov 20 by caught-in-limbo |
There is no real interest shown by the pharmaceutical industry in the placebo for obvious reasons. No pharmaceutical treatment is responsible for more successful medical interventions than the placebo. Its versatility and potential remains relatively understudied because it's essentially free and therefore a very dangerous competitor to the pharmaceutical industry. To date, no anti-depressant has been proven to be more successful than the placebo in all but the most severe cases of depression. |
Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear. |  |
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| I wonder if some of the parents regret not vaccinating their child. on 00:14 - Nov 21 with 3207 views | BlueBadger |
| I wonder if some of the parents regret not vaccinating their child. on 22:13 - Nov 20 by Darth_Koont |
Indeed. It seems my daughters are taught source criticism as a staple of anything non-scientific so I'm hopeful the next generation won't be as stupid as ours (and the one above) has been.
Possibly why the Mail has been trying to diversify into a reality gossip site with the hard-core hate more of a complementary side dish. |
Certainly when I studied history at both GCSE and A level, the 'content' was a happy bonus, the real 'meat' of the course was teaching you evidence evaluation skills. I sometimes used to wonder why my history teachers said 'a lot of history students go into law'. I don't anymore. | |
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| I wonder if some of the parents regret not vaccinating their child. on 00:15 - Nov 21 with 3203 views | jeera |
| I wonder if some of the parents regret not vaccinating their child. on 00:14 - Nov 21 by BlueBadger |
Certainly when I studied history at both GCSE and A level, the 'content' was a happy bonus, the real 'meat' of the course was teaching you evidence evaluation skills. I sometimes used to wonder why my history teachers said 'a lot of history students go into law'. I don't anymore. |
Is it because there was no future in history?
Sorry. |  |
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| I wonder if some of the parents regret not vaccinating their child. on 00:19 - Nov 21 with 3201 views | BlueBadger |
| I wonder if some of the parents regret not vaccinating their child. on 22:14 - Nov 20 by caught-in-limbo |
Then you don't prefer to judge others' individual opinions on their merit, you base your view on the merit of unrelated opinions. |
Here's the thing: If you're willing to base one opinion based on the say-so of evidence-free quacks then your 'unrelated' opinions may very well follow the same pattern of going with the evidence-free assertions of fraudsters.
This isn't a very hard thing to understand. | |
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| I wonder if some of the parents regret not vaccinating their child. on 00:26 - Nov 21 with 3186 views | Darth_Koont |
| I wonder if some of the parents regret not vaccinating their child. on 22:57 - Nov 20 by caught-in-limbo |
There is no real interest shown by the pharmaceutical industry in the placebo for obvious reasons. No pharmaceutical treatment is responsible for more successful medical interventions than the placebo. Its versatility and potential remains relatively understudied because it's essentially free and therefore a very dangerous competitor to the pharmaceutical industry. To date, no anti-depressant has been proven to be more successful than the placebo in all but the most severe cases of depression. |
You're not really using science here.
The placebo effect is more consistently seen because it's always present. Doesn't mean it's more effective than real drugs that work. |  |
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| I wonder if some of the parents regret not vaccinating their child. on 08:31 - Nov 21 with 3110 views | BlueBadger |
| I wonder if some of the parents regret not vaccinating their child. on 00:26 - Nov 21 by Darth_Koont |
You're not really using science here.
The placebo effect is more consistently seen because it's always present. Doesn't mean it's more effective than real drugs that work. |
And whilst it's very helpful for condition with a psychosomatic element such as chronic pain, it won't work with say, diabetes or pneaumonia and will NEVER treat an underlying condition. | |
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| I wonder if some of the parents regret not vaccinating their child. on 09:15 - Nov 21 with 3095 views | Swansea_Blue |
| I wonder if some of the parents regret not vaccinating their child. on 16:04 - Nov 20 by GeoffSentence |
I don't know if it is still a thing, but people used to hve chickenpox parties for just that reason. |
Yep. I'm surprised chickenpox is causing this much of a stir. If it was polio I'd understand it. |  |
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| I wonder if some of the parents regret not vaccinating their child. on 09:34 - Nov 21 with 3092 views | Harry_Palmer |
No, she is a qualified medical doctor. I have studied her work and know it to be well researched and of sound scientific reasoning so have no interest in reading the link you have posted. Every time somebody sticks their head above the parapet there will be people lining up to 'debunk' them, although of course more often than not they are really just protecting their own interests. |  | | |
| I wonder if some of the parents regret not vaccinating their child. on 09:37 - Nov 21 with 3084 views | StokieBlue |
| I wonder if some of the parents regret not vaccinating their child. on 09:34 - Nov 21 by Harry_Palmer |
No, she is a qualified medical doctor. I have studied her work and know it to be well researched and of sound scientific reasoning so have no interest in reading the link you have posted. Every time somebody sticks their head above the parapet there will be people lining up to 'debunk' them, although of course more often than not they are really just protecting their own interests. |
Wow.
So, you read one side of the argument and not the other and then dismiss anything which disagrees with that view?
Who cares if she is an MD? That doesn't mean everything she says is correct and in the case of homeopathy for instance she can't possibly be correct because it's scientifically impossible (and proven to be so).
Propagation of pseudoscience is incredibly dangerous and thus I can't even being to fathom your attitude on this.
SB [Post edited 21 Nov 2018 9:38]
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| I wonder if some of the parents regret not vaccinating their child. on 09:46 - Nov 21 with 3076 views | BlueBadger |
| I wonder if some of the parents regret not vaccinating their child. on 09:34 - Nov 21 by Harry_Palmer |
No, she is a qualified medical doctor. I have studied her work and know it to be well researched and of sound scientific reasoning so have no interest in reading the link you have posted. Every time somebody sticks their head above the parapet there will be people lining up to 'debunk' them, although of course more often than not they are really just protecting their own interests. |
You should, it's pointing out all the flaws, false assertions and outright fallacies in her research. | |
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| I wonder if some of the parents regret not vaccinating their child. on 09:46 - Nov 21 with 3077 views | Harry_Palmer |
| I wonder if some of the parents regret not vaccinating their child. on 22:46 - Nov 20 by StokieBlue |
Unfortunately that's pretty much what you have to say.
It's demonstrably provable that the child is less likely to contract a disease which can be vaccinated against if they have the vaccination. The chances of side-effects that can be proven to be from the vaccine are usually far less than the chances of contracting the said disease.
You are also reducing herd immunity by not given the vaccine so you are putting both your child and others at risk.
It's horrible if something happens but it's the best way forward for the child and it's peers.
SB |
"It's demonstrably provable that the child is less likely to contract a disease which can be vaccinated against if they have the vaccination. The chances of side-effects that can be proven to be from the vaccine are usually far less than the chances of contracting the said disease"
I very much doubt you can prove either part of this statement. With regards to the second part that really is a blanket statement and will vary from vaccine to vaccine. This is why I believe it should always be down to informed consent and not mandatory.
Unfortunately the medical profession is notoriously reluctant to engage in any risk versus benefit conversation with the public on vaccines though so making an informed choice is not easy to accomplish. Most people therefore just put their blind faith in their GP and hope for the best. | | | |
| I wonder if some of the parents regret not vaccinating their child. on 09:48 - Nov 21 with 3080 views | BlueBadger |
| I wonder if some of the parents regret not vaccinating their child. on 09:37 - Nov 21 by StokieBlue |
Wow.
So, you read one side of the argument and not the other and then dismiss anything which disagrees with that view?
Who cares if she is an MD? That doesn't mean everything she says is correct and in the case of homeopathy for instance she can't possibly be correct because it's scientifically impossible (and proven to be so).
Propagation of pseudoscience is incredibly dangerous and thus I can't even being to fathom your attitude on this.
SB [Post edited 21 Nov 2018 9:38]
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And further to your point, Andrew Wakefield was an MD as well. His research has been thoroughly discredited, debunk and demonstrated to be flawed, falsified and carried out as an exercise for a drug company to try and smear a rival product. | |
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| I wonder if some of the parents regret not vaccinating their child. on 09:50 - Nov 21 with 3077 views | footers |
There is a need to remain open-minded about about alternative views within science and medicine considering each episteme changes with mavericks like Darwin. Many discoveries may not seem relevant at the time and can only be understood later on within different frameworks. Science is merely a tool of philosophy and we should be more accommodating of differing opinions within reason.
Where we draw that line is another question, but this false 'science v conspiracy' argument isn't helpful. |  |
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| I wonder if some of the parents regret not vaccinating their child. on 10:06 - Nov 21 with 3064 views | Harry_Palmer |
| I wonder if some of the parents regret not vaccinating their child. on 21:35 - Nov 20 by BlueBadger |
Ah, Suzanne Humphries.
One of the lesser known quacks, but a quack none the less. She's pulling all the tricks of the snake oil salesperson from wilful misinterpretation of data, to cherry picking of studies to outright lying.
https://medium.com/@visualvaccines/why-dr-suzanne-humphries-an-anti-vaccine-acti
And as for 'you don't know very much about medicine'?
Is this what a centipede feels like when he's challenged to an arse-kicking contest? [Post edited 20 Nov 2018 21:37]
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Every time somebody uses the term 'quack' in relation to a proven medical professional you know they are far too immature and entrenched in their position to make the debate worth carrying on with. | | | |
| I wonder if some of the parents regret not vaccinating their child. on 10:07 - Nov 21 with 3060 views | StokieBlue |
| I wonder if some of the parents regret not vaccinating their child. on 10:06 - Nov 21 by Harry_Palmer |
Every time somebody uses the term 'quack' in relation to a proven medical professional you know they are far too immature and entrenched in their position to make the debate worth carrying on with. |
More entrenched that refusing to read the counter evidence?
Oh dear.
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| I wonder if some of the parents regret not vaccinating their child. on 10:12 - Nov 21 with 3046 views | giant_stow |
| I wonder if some of the parents regret not vaccinating their child. on 10:06 - Nov 21 by Harry_Palmer |
Every time somebody uses the term 'quack' in relation to a proven medical professional you know they are far too immature and entrenched in their position to make the debate worth carrying on with. |
I have no horse in this race, but having read the thread you were the one who started firing off the you don't know what you're talking about shots. [Post edited 21 Nov 2018 10:13]
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| I wonder if some of the parents regret not vaccinating their child. on 10:19 - Nov 21 with 3028 views | Harry_Palmer |
| I wonder if some of the parents regret not vaccinating their child. on 10:07 - Nov 21 by StokieBlue |
More entrenched that refusing to read the counter evidence?
Oh dear.
SB |
Have you studied the work of Humphries then to be able to take a balanced view?
I think we know the answer and I have no doubt you wouldn't entertain it because it goes against the mainstream view. You have proven many times on here you are incapable of considering alternative viewpoints.
Come back to me when you have read the book and then we can have a discussion. | | | |
| I wonder if some of the parents regret not vaccinating their child. on 10:21 - Nov 21 with 3024 views | StokieBlue |
| I wonder if some of the parents regret not vaccinating their child. on 10:19 - Nov 21 by Harry_Palmer |
Have you studied the work of Humphries then to be able to take a balanced view?
I think we know the answer and I have no doubt you wouldn't entertain it because it goes against the mainstream view. You have proven many times on here you are incapable of considering alternative viewpoints.
Come back to me when you have read the book and then we can have a discussion. |
That's not an equivalence though.
It doesn't matter if shes a doctor, the fact she believes in homeopathy proves beyond doubt that she doesn't care about science or the provability of her position.
It's nothing to do with not considering alternate viewpoints. It's everything to do with not considering scientifically proven fallacies. The fact you can't tell or don't care about the difference is the issue here.
SB [Post edited 21 Nov 2018 10:21]
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| I wonder if some of the parents regret not vaccinating their child. on 10:24 - Nov 21 with 3019 views | StokieBlue |
| I wonder if some of the parents regret not vaccinating their child. on 09:50 - Nov 21 by footers |
There is a need to remain open-minded about about alternative views within science and medicine considering each episteme changes with mavericks like Darwin. Many discoveries may not seem relevant at the time and can only be understood later on within different frameworks. Science is merely a tool of philosophy and we should be more accommodating of differing opinions within reason.
Where we draw that line is another question, but this false 'science v conspiracy' argument isn't helpful. |
I agree up to a point.
However when something is proven to be nonsense, such as homeopathy then why should we continue to keep an open mind on that subject? Furthermore if someone is proven to disregard falsifiable results then should we keep an open-mind on their other alternate views or is that a dangerous path which if unchecked could cause someone to use these treatments and die as result (which has happened on many occasions when alternate treatments are used in lieu of standard medical treatment).
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