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Ministers considering a 2nd referendum 20:47 - Jan 19 with 3828 viewsElderGrizzly

Go on Vince!

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jan/19/ministers-second-brexit-referen
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Ministers considering a 2nd referendum on 13:46 - Jan 20 with 449 viewsm14_blue

Ministers considering a 2nd referendum on 13:40 - Jan 20 by Lord_Lucan

Whether the question was broad enough is irrelevant because it was what it was - in black and white. In fact I think most leavers voted on a complete crash out.

People who now move the goalposts are disingenuousness - and in any case it's really nothing to do with us, we lost.

How would you have liked it if we had won and then the BREXITERS started crying about a 2nd referendum because the original one didn't say on what basis should we remain?


What on earth do you base the idea that leavers votes to crash out on?

We were repeatedly told how easy it would be to make a deal, literally no one suggested crashing out.

That’s like taking a narrow remain vote as a mandate to join the Euro and ever closer union. Complete fantasy.
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Ministers considering a 2nd referendum on 13:50 - Jan 20 with 435 viewsBloomBlue

And did Vince demand a second vote when the lib dems and
Cons formed a government even though people didn't vote for it and weren't told that was going to happen, ie they didn't know what they were voting for? Thought not
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Ministers considering a 2nd referendum on 13:52 - Jan 20 with 425 viewsHerbivore

Ministers considering a 2nd referendum on 13:50 - Jan 20 by BloomBlue

And did Vince demand a second vote when the lib dems and
Cons formed a government even though people didn't vote for it and weren't told that was going to happen, ie they didn't know what they were voting for? Thought not


Good comparison.

[Post edited 20 Jan 13:52]

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Ministers considering a 2nd referendum on 13:53 - Jan 20 with 421 viewsLord_Lucan

Ministers considering a 2nd referendum on 13:46 - Jan 20 by m14_blue

What on earth do you base the idea that leavers votes to crash out on?

We were repeatedly told how easy it would be to make a deal, literally no one suggested crashing out.

That’s like taking a narrow remain vote as a mandate to join the Euro and ever closer union. Complete fantasy.


I base this on what I see and hear from the general public. How about you?

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Ministers considering a 2nd referendum on 13:57 - Jan 20 with 414 viewsm14_blue

Ministers considering a 2nd referendum on 13:53 - Jan 20 by Lord_Lucan

I base this on what I see and hear from the general public. How about you?


Also on that, and I speak to literally hundreds of people everyday, and on what we were told during the referendum. Farage, Davis, BJ, all of them told us how easy a deal would be. After all, they need us more than we need them don’t we?

Leaving without a deal simply wasn’t talked about before the realities started to hit home, aside from the real extremists who are now probably wearing yellow rays and chanting football songs at MP’s, they don’t represent the 17m.
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Ministers considering a 2nd referendum on 14:06 - Jan 20 with 394 viewsDarth_Koont

Ministers considering a 2nd referendum on 13:40 - Jan 20 by Lord_Lucan

Whether the question was broad enough is irrelevant because it was what it was - in black and white. In fact I think most leavers voted on a complete crash out.

People who now move the goalposts are disingenuousness - and in any case it's really nothing to do with us, we lost.

How would you have liked it if we had won and then the BREXITERS started crying about a 2nd referendum because the original one didn't say on what basis should we remain?


The terms on which we remain would always be discussed as it has been throughout our membership. It wouldn't have been "the people have chosen to stay so it's on these terms forever." It becomes a manifesto issue instead.

Clearly you're not seeing it in its simplest terms. It was an advisory referendum that got a narrow vote in favour of Leave. Nothing about it said what would then happen or what could or couldn't be discussed further down the road. Those are your and others' goalposts.
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Ministers considering a 2nd referendum on 14:07 - Jan 20 with 389 viewsDarth_Koont

Ministers considering a 2nd referendum on 13:50 - Jan 20 by BloomBlue

And did Vince demand a second vote when the lib dems and
Cons formed a government even though people didn't vote for it and weren't told that was going to happen, ie they didn't know what they were voting for? Thought not


You don't officially vote for governments in this country. Nor in a referendum vote do you vote for terms of a non-existent deal or an end to any future discussion and changes of mind.
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Ministers considering a 2nd referendum on 14:08 - Jan 20 with 386 viewsLord_Lucan

Ministers considering a 2nd referendum on 13:57 - Jan 20 by m14_blue

Also on that, and I speak to literally hundreds of people everyday, and on what we were told during the referendum. Farage, Davis, BJ, all of them told us how easy a deal would be. After all, they need us more than we need them don’t we?

Leaving without a deal simply wasn’t talked about before the realities started to hit home, aside from the real extremists who are now probably wearing yellow rays and chanting football songs at MP’s, they don’t represent the 17m.


Is it you who keeps calling me to change my power supply?

Look, I don't really agree with what you are saying but arguing the toss with you is going to just waste both our time.

As for a deal - well we don't know what's happening yet. Personally I never believed we would get a great deal because the EU would be very worried about a complete collapse if we did. The biggest mistake we have done though - and I still find it unfathomable - is to vote in a Remainer as leader.

It doesn't make sense. Our negotiations have been grossly ineffective to say the least.

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Ministers considering a 2nd referendum on 14:19 - Jan 20 with 367 viewsLord_Lucan

Ministers considering a 2nd referendum on 14:06 - Jan 20 by Darth_Koont

The terms on which we remain would always be discussed as it has been throughout our membership. It wouldn't have been "the people have chosen to stay so it's on these terms forever." It becomes a manifesto issue instead.

Clearly you're not seeing it in its simplest terms. It was an advisory referendum that got a narrow vote in favour of Leave. Nothing about it said what would then happen or what could or couldn't be discussed further down the road. Those are your and others' goalposts.


Technically it wasn't legally binding on parliament but nor was the 1975 vote.

But you are splitting hairs here, the public were told in no uncertain terms that the vote would be accepted.

You are scraping the barrel and you disappoint me.

I find the hypocrisy on this thread staggering and I'm too long in the tooth to debate it with those who constantly try and defend the indefensible.

I bid you good day.

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Ministers considering a 2nd referendum on 14:20 - Jan 20 with 361 viewsPecker

Best of 3 is it?
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Ministers considering a 2nd referendum on 14:22 - Jan 20 with 358 viewsPecker

Ministers considering a 2nd referendum on 21:03 - Jan 19 by SpruceMoose

No. We won't do that. Remain will win this one, we'll stay in the EU (probably integrating further as time goes by) and all breathe a sigh of relief that the brainless and the bigoted didn't get to ruin the country.
[Post edited 19 Jan 21:05]


Why use language like that? I voted remain, but please do not assume all those that didn't are thick. Not at all nice.
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Ministers considering a 2nd referendum on 14:25 - Jan 20 with 346 viewsSpruceMoose

Ministers considering a 2nd referendum on 14:22 - Jan 20 by Pecker

Why use language like that? I voted remain, but please do not assume all those that didn't are thick. Not at all nice.


I didn't say they were. My comment was regarding the brainless and bigoted specifically.

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Ministers considering a 2nd referendum on 14:26 - Jan 20 with 346 viewsm14_blue

Ministers considering a 2nd referendum on 14:08 - Jan 20 by Lord_Lucan

Is it you who keeps calling me to change my power supply?

Look, I don't really agree with what you are saying but arguing the toss with you is going to just waste both our time.

As for a deal - well we don't know what's happening yet. Personally I never believed we would get a great deal because the EU would be very worried about a complete collapse if we did. The biggest mistake we have done though - and I still find it unfathomable - is to vote in a Remainer as leader.

It doesn't make sense. Our negotiations have been grossly ineffective to say the least.


Yep fair enough, doubt we’ll agree.

Now, if you’ll just tell me when you’re available tonight I’ll give you a call back regarding that new super saver energy account I mentioned yesterday.
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Ministers considering a 2nd referendum on 14:47 - Jan 20 with 329 viewsPecker

Ministers considering a 2nd referendum on 14:25 - Jan 20 by SpruceMoose

I didn't say they were. My comment was regarding the brainless and bigoted specifically.


Lived in America a while I would guess.
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Ministers considering a 2nd referendum on 14:54 - Jan 20 with 323 viewswkj

Ministers considering a 2nd referendum on 21:13 - Jan 19 by wkj

This has the makings of a good 10 pager. Good work Ursus arctos horribilis


6 and still going strong

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Ministers considering a 2nd referendum on 16:26 - Jan 20 with 295 viewsDarth_Koont

Ministers considering a 2nd referendum on 14:19 - Jan 20 by Lord_Lucan

Technically it wasn't legally binding on parliament but nor was the 1975 vote.

But you are splitting hairs here, the public were told in no uncertain terms that the vote would be accepted.

You are scraping the barrel and you disappoint me.

I find the hypocrisy on this thread staggering and I'm too long in the tooth to debate it with those who constantly try and defend the indefensible.

I bid you good day.


"The public were told in no uncertain terms that the vote would be accepted."

Yes, accepted into our democratic process where it would be decided on in parliament. There was nothing binding about the referendum itself or what the government could commit to on its own.

People simplifying the referendum and making it mean what they want it to mean is what got us into this mess in the first place.
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Ministers considering a 2nd referendum on 16:45 - Jan 20 with 268 viewsLeaky

Ministers considering a 2nd referendum on 21:03 - Jan 19 by SpruceMoose

No. We won't do that. Remain will win this one, we'll stay in the EU (probably integrating further as time goes by) and all breathe a sigh of relief that the brainless and the bigoted didn't get to ruin the country.
[Post edited 19 Jan 21:05]


Integrating further, that's interesting never heard that mentioned by the Remain side in 2016. Will it be mentioned in any future referendum, leave could win again with that scenario
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Ministers considering a 2nd referendum on 17:32 - Jan 20 with 250 viewsSpruceMoose

Ministers considering a 2nd referendum on 14:47 - Jan 20 by Pecker

Lived in America a while I would guess.


Yet still comprehend English better than you it seems. Where did I say what you thought I said? Nowhere!

Not all leave voters are bigots or stupid. Happy?

All bigots and stupid people were leave voters though.

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Ministers considering a 2nd referendum on 17:41 - Jan 20 with 243 viewsPecker

Ministers considering a 2nd referendum on 17:32 - Jan 20 by SpruceMoose

Yet still comprehend English better than you it seems. Where did I say what you thought I said? Nowhere!

Not all leave voters are bigots or stupid. Happy?

All bigots and stupid people were leave voters though.


Yep, just as I thought. Still trying to work out why though. I guess you know, but I am happy not to be on the same wave length as you on this.
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Ministers considering a 2nd referendum on 18:13 - Jan 20 with 225 viewsLord_Lucan

Ministers considering a 2nd referendum on 17:32 - Jan 20 by SpruceMoose

Yet still comprehend English better than you it seems. Where did I say what you thought I said? Nowhere!

Not all leave voters are bigots or stupid. Happy?

All bigots and stupid people were leave voters though.


Microdick

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Ministers considering a 2nd referendum on 18:27 - Jan 20 with 213 viewsSpruceMoose

Ministers considering a 2nd referendum on 18:13 - Jan 20 by Lord_Lucan

Microdick


That would be an upgrade!

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