| Sign the petition people and let's get back to actually 10:58 - Mar 21 with 26140 views | unstableblue |
... trying to run our country and improve it, based on being in a solid trading block.
Brexit is a dead duck, that was mis-sold. There is no resolution that is worth the negatives. Lets get back in Europe and be a strong reforming voice.
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/241584
If you think Brexit can be solved in anything under 5 to 7 years you are misguided. We haven't even started the process in anger. |  |
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| Sign the petition people and let's get back to actually on 14:59 - Mar 21 with 1940 views | Butterbing |
| Sign the petition people and let's get back to actually on 14:54 - Mar 21 by Pecker |
Because we live in a democracy. |
That literally makes no sense. The people voted to leave based on expectations of what leaving would be like. Now we have a better idea of reality it would still be democratic to vote again. The only reason to be worried is if you are still sure that leaving is for the best but believe that enough people have changed their mind to alter the result. |  | | |
| Sign the petition people and let's get back to actually on 14:59 - Mar 21 with 1943 views | J2BLUE |
| Sign the petition people and let's get back to actually on 14:54 - Mar 21 by Pecker |
Because we live in a democracy. |
Surely it's more undemocratic to force 2019 society to accept a 2016 society vote when it comes to something like this?
I'll ask again because I never get an answer. If you still believe Brexit is what people want why not have another vote and kill remain off once and for all? If you don't still believe it is what people want then surely you are the one being undemocratic? We change our minds daily about lots of things and sometimes agonise over tiny decisions but we can't test the water on Brexit? |  |
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| Sign the petition people and let's get back to actually on 15:14 - Mar 21 with 1922 views | Herbivore |
| Sign the petition people and let's get back to actually on 14:54 - Mar 21 by Pecker |
Because we live in a democracy. |
And a referendum is a democratic exercise. I don't see the problem. |  |
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| Sign the petition people and let's get back to actually on 15:20 - Mar 21 with 1906 views | Pecker |
| Sign the petition people and let's get back to actually on 14:59 - Mar 21 by J2BLUE |
Surely it's more undemocratic to force 2019 society to accept a 2016 society vote when it comes to something like this?
I'll ask again because I never get an answer. If you still believe Brexit is what people want why not have another vote and kill remain off once and for all? If you don't still believe it is what people want then surely you are the one being undemocratic? We change our minds daily about lots of things and sometimes agonise over tiny decisions but we can't test the water on Brexit? |
And I will say again, we do not have another general election when Tory/labour get in. |  | | |
| Sign the petition people and let's get back to actually on 15:22 - Mar 21 with 1903 views | Pecker |
| Sign the petition people and let's get back to actually on 15:14 - Mar 21 by Herbivore |
And a referendum is a democratic exercise. I don't see the problem. |
Because we have already had one. Remember I voted remain. | | | |
| Sign the petition people and let's get back to actually on 15:31 - Mar 21 with 1892 views | Herbivore |
| Sign the petition people and let's get back to actually on 15:22 - Mar 21 by Pecker |
Because we have already had one. Remember I voted remain. |
Repeating that you voted remain doesn't make your point more valid. And your response to J2, actually with a GE we do get to vote again in a few years if we're not happy with how things have gone after the previous vote so I'm not sure that strengthens your argument. Not to mention that GEs are quite different from referendums. Given everything we know now the argument that it would be undemocratic to hold a second vote just doesn't fly. | |
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| Sign the petition people and let's get back to actually on 15:36 - Mar 21 with 1882 views | J2BLUE |
| Sign the petition people and let's get back to actually on 15:20 - Mar 21 by Pecker |
And I will say again, we do not have another general election when Tory/labour get in. |
We do have a GE every 5 years (at least). It has been 3 since the referendum and there are strong suggestions the tide has already turned. Why not take this golden opportunity to abort Brexit while we still can, while the harm done is relatively minor?
Just in time for summer, the pound to surge and a cheap holiday somewhere nice to celebrate. | |
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| Sign the petition people and let's get back to actually on 15:39 - Mar 21 with 1866 views | Pecker |
| Sign the petition people and let's get back to actually on 15:36 - Mar 21 by J2BLUE |
We do have a GE every 5 years (at least). It has been 3 since the referendum and there are strong suggestions the tide has already turned. Why not take this golden opportunity to abort Brexit while we still can, while the harm done is relatively minor?
Just in time for summer, the pound to surge and a cheap holiday somewhere nice to celebrate. |
Because we can use article 49 to re-join the EU should we wish. The sooner that happens the better. You could then have your second referendum should the elected government put it into their manifesto. That is democracy. [Post edited 21 Mar 2019 15:41]
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| Sign the petition people and let's get back to actually on 15:39 - Mar 21 with 1866 views | pbishop1799 |
| Sign the petition people and let's get back to actually on 14:59 - Mar 21 by J2BLUE |
Surely it's more undemocratic to force 2019 society to accept a 2016 society vote when it comes to something like this?
I'll ask again because I never get an answer. If you still believe Brexit is what people want why not have another vote and kill remain off once and for all? If you don't still believe it is what people want then surely you are the one being undemocratic? We change our minds daily about lots of things and sometimes agonise over tiny decisions but we can't test the water on Brexit? |
By your logic, no Parliament would ever serve its full term. |  | | |
| Sign the petition people and let's get back to actually on 15:52 - Mar 21 with 1828 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Sign the petition people and let's get back to actually on 14:54 - Mar 21 by Pecker |
Because we live in a democracy. |
The problem is there are different types of democracy. We have Parliamentary democracy, where we elect representatives to serve on behalf of ALL of us. And we have thrown into the mix a direct democracy in the form of the referendum. In the case of the Brexit referendum this form of direct democracy was only deemed to be advisory, therefore I assume parliamentary democracy has priority (it certainly has legal priority, as the referendum is not legally binding).
May is trying to overrule parliamentary democracy and has been all along. After her latest outburst yesterday, Bercow's had to step in again and remind her that MP's have a sole duty to the house to represent all constituents in good faith (i.e. honour parliamentary democracy because that is the cornerstone of our system).
That's not to say the result of the referendum shouldn't be implemented, but it's clearly not an easy task to do when the two forms of democracy clash and the outcome of the referendum wasn't clear (i.e. it was not specified HOW we would leave, and there are many different ways to do so).
It's all a bit of a mess. |  |
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| Sign the petition people and let's get back to actually on 15:56 - Mar 21 with 1818 views | Pecker |
| Sign the petition people and let's get back to actually on 15:52 - Mar 21 by Swansea_Blue |
The problem is there are different types of democracy. We have Parliamentary democracy, where we elect representatives to serve on behalf of ALL of us. And we have thrown into the mix a direct democracy in the form of the referendum. In the case of the Brexit referendum this form of direct democracy was only deemed to be advisory, therefore I assume parliamentary democracy has priority (it certainly has legal priority, as the referendum is not legally binding).
May is trying to overrule parliamentary democracy and has been all along. After her latest outburst yesterday, Bercow's had to step in again and remind her that MP's have a sole duty to the house to represent all constituents in good faith (i.e. honour parliamentary democracy because that is the cornerstone of our system).
That's not to say the result of the referendum shouldn't be implemented, but it's clearly not an easy task to do when the two forms of democracy clash and the outcome of the referendum wasn't clear (i.e. it was not specified HOW we would leave, and there are many different ways to do so).
It's all a bit of a mess. |
See my post 2 up. | | | |
| Sign the petition people and let's get back to actually on 15:59 - Mar 21 with 1800 views | Butterbing |
| Sign the petition people and let's get back to actually on 15:39 - Mar 21 by Pecker |
Because we can use article 49 to re-join the EU should we wish. The sooner that happens the better. You could then have your second referendum should the elected government put it into their manifesto. That is democracy. [Post edited 21 Mar 2019 15:41]
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Yes, we could potentially rejoin but on worse terms than we have currently. | | | |
| Sign the petition people and let's get back to actually on 16:02 - Mar 21 with 1798 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Sign the petition people and let's get back to actually on 15:56 - Mar 21 by Pecker |
See my post 2 up. |
We could try. I suspect that would be a daft and not very popular approach, as we' be giving up all the concessions we've got already. We'd never get a deal as good as the one we have now. This isn't something that we can just flip in and out of like a gym membership. It's fiendishly complex and will take many, many years to detangle. Similarly it takes many, many years to join. | |
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| Sign the petition people and let's get back to actually on 16:10 - Mar 21 with 1779 views | J2BLUE |
| Sign the petition people and let's get back to actually on 15:39 - Mar 21 by pbishop1799 |
By your logic, no Parliament would ever serve its full term. |
I don't understand why you think a five year fixed term parliament is equivalent to a 'forever' decision. Is it really so bad to be asked 'now you know more, are you sure?' | |
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| Sign the petition people and let's get back to actually on 16:11 - Mar 21 with 1775 views | J2BLUE |
| Sign the petition people and let's get back to actually on 15:39 - Mar 21 by Pecker |
Because we can use article 49 to re-join the EU should we wish. The sooner that happens the better. You could then have your second referendum should the elected government put it into their manifesto. That is democracy. [Post edited 21 Mar 2019 15:41]
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By that logic, no government can do anything that isn't in its manifesto. | |
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| Sign the petition people and let's get back to actually on 16:20 - Mar 21 with 1753 views | pbishop1799 |
| Sign the petition people and let's get back to actually on 16:10 - Mar 21 by J2BLUE |
I don't understand why you think a five year fixed term parliament is equivalent to a 'forever' decision. Is it really so bad to be asked 'now you know more, are you sure?' |
I didn't say that. And nothing is 'forever'. | | | |
| Sign the petition people and let's get back to actually on 16:21 - Mar 21 with 1746 views | SpruceMoose |
| Sign the petition people and let's get back to actually on 16:10 - Mar 21 by J2BLUE |
I don't understand why you think a five year fixed term parliament is equivalent to a 'forever' decision. Is it really so bad to be asked 'now you know more, are you sure?' |
I'm delighted that you've come round to my way of seeing things. The only reason I can think of why somebody wouldn't like this option is that they think they are going to lose another vote. [Post edited 21 Mar 2019 16:22]
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| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Sign the petition people and let's get back to actually on 16:22 - Mar 21 with 1745 views | WeWereZombies |
| Sign the petition people and let's get back to actually on 16:20 - Mar 21 by pbishop1799 |
I didn't say that. And nothing is 'forever'. |
Actually, as a concept, as a pure idea, 'nothing' is one of the few things that is forever.
That is provided nothing can be a thing... |  |
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| Sign the petition people and let's get back to actually on 16:28 - Mar 21 with 1735 views | Pecker |
| Sign the petition people and let's get back to actually on 16:11 - Mar 21 by J2BLUE |
By that logic, no government can do anything that isn't in its manifesto. |
Of course it can, but this government was elected with the leave vote already taken and with Mays promise that we would leave. | | | |
| Sign the petition people and let's get back to actually on 16:30 - Mar 21 with 1722 views | pbishop1799 |
| Sign the petition people and let's get back to actually on 16:22 - Mar 21 by WeWereZombies |
Actually, as a concept, as a pure idea, 'nothing' is one of the few things that is forever.
That is provided nothing can be a thing... |
This is easily the best thing I ever read on here. | | | |
| Sign the petition people and let's get back to actually on 16:31 - Mar 21 with 1722 views | Superfrans |
| Sign the petition people and let's get back to actually on 15:22 - Mar 21 by Pecker |
Because we have already had one. Remember I voted remain. |
Sorry, I've been out most of the day and missed most of the posts on this.
I do kind of understand where you are coming from.
Personally, I'm deeply uncomfortable with accepting the result of a referendum where one side (the winning side) was supported by illegal levels of funding and where many of the arguments were sheer invention. Even Farage has said that he wouldn't have put that "£350m a week for the NHS" claim on the side of a bus.
But I also accept the argument that many people voted Leave because they genuinely do want to leave the EU. And to ignore that would undermine democracy.
That said, their view hasn't been ignored. We've spent much of the past three years debating and discussing it, the Government has clearly tried to deliver a form of Brexit that works, for the country and their party and has clearly failed. This both reflects their appalling negotiation skills, but also that what is genuinely acceptable to the nation (a form of Brexit which won't cause irreparable harm) cannot be achieved in time for the deadline.
The fact is that we can't deliver anything acceptable by the end of next week, so we should halt the process, finalise the best deal we can and then put that again to the nation. That means revoking article 50 - and potentially then holding a General Election or creating an all-party coalition (similar to the one we had heading into WWII) electing the people who we believe can negotiate the best deal, on the basis that once that is done, the deal is put to the nation as a further referendum.
Of course, it will all involve huge amounts of time being wasted on something that I don't personally believe is necessary, but we need to do whatever we can to unite the nation behind something... |  |
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| Sign the petition people and let's get back to actually on 16:32 - Mar 21 with 1717 views | Butterbing |
| Sign the petition people and let's get back to actually on 16:28 - Mar 21 by Pecker |
Of course it can, but this government was elected with the leave vote already taken and with Mays promise that we would leave. |
Perhaps May should have defined what leave was rather than just saying "Brexit means Brexit" for two years.If we had a competent government the plan would have been in the manifesto. Then she could claim to have a mandate.
I think we should revoke article 50, hold a general election with the parties having their Brexit plan in their manifesto and then invoke article 50 again. | | | |
| Sign the petition people and let's get back to actually on 16:33 - Mar 21 with 1717 views | Pecker |
| Sign the petition people and let's get back to actually on 16:02 - Mar 21 by Swansea_Blue |
We could try. I suspect that would be a daft and not very popular approach, as we' be giving up all the concessions we've got already. We'd never get a deal as good as the one we have now. This isn't something that we can just flip in and out of like a gym membership. It's fiendishly complex and will take many, many years to detangle. Similarly it takes many, many years to join. |
That isn't totally true. There is no reason why we couldn't. Of course the EU would PROBABLY make it difficult for us, but NOT necessarily. Although it doesn't seem like it, the EU need us and like having us. | | | |
| Sign the petition people and let's get back to actually on 16:36 - Mar 21 with 1706 views | bahri |
You can't wait for the Euro to be legal tender, then? |  |
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